(Topic ID: 232957)

Node Boards- Update- Stern tech fixes issue via email

By shacklersrevenge

5 years ago


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  • 745 posts
  • 148 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Neal_W
  • Topic is favorited by 22 Pinsiders

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#55 5 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

Seems like someone needs to reengineer these nodes into a non surface mount board with regular components that can be changed out. They appear to be a modern version of the “Vidiot” board.

Not going to happen. Thru hole components are eol. The Microcontrollers never had a thru hole version.

#75 5 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

No schematics is the biggest thing it seems.
After that it just gets "harder" for most with surface mount. Not sure how readily available those components on the boards are though

Microcontroller software is the BIGGEST problem. IF Stern were smart; they have the code encrypted on the uC so people cant dump the code.
Since we don't have schematics... we have no idea if this is a IO pin bad on the uC... or a bad transistor... or something else simple.

#86 5 years ago
Quoted from Neal_W:

Mounted under the playfield they get hammered and with the components hanging there, it's not hard to imagine solder joints and headers fail.

Unless the components are getting hot enough to melt their own solder ... then the SMT solder connections shouldn't be affected by the vibration.

Personally; I think that Stern has a design defect or two... or they are trying to update the FW on the node board which fails... leading to massive rejects on new code updates... or they are frying the components on the node board due to ESD or Coil EMF.

Given how cheap Stern has gotten... I wouldn't surprise me if the reason they have so many versions of the node boards is because several different engineers are trying to "fix" a bad design. I'm BETTING that stern did very little reliability studies with the existing boards... probably no "temperature" chamber checks.

We don't hold them accountable... so they aren't going to be accountable.

#97 5 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

With that much info going on in that photo, I would have no problems repairing it. If a component stymies me, then I look at the components it is wired to and guess.

Except that for many high density designs; you're now talking about a 4layer or maybe even 6layer board. Good luck ohming out an accurate schematic. I'd bet that Stern's Spike1/2 is a 4layer board at a minimum.

SMT drives costs down; and densities up... BGA components only work at 4layer designs... and these ARM based microcontroller systems are defiantly high density - doubt they are BGA systems ... yet... but it'll happen eventually.

A MOD I'm working on right now was just committed to OSHPark in their 4layer design... because it has to be small and high density. I hate moving from 2layer 8SOIC packages.... but it just wouldn't fit. Sadly; ATMEL isn't yet providing BGA packages for their Mega lines or I would have tried to do a BGA uC.

#204 5 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

if anyone knows the part number for their white and RGB led's, please post it.

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

If you get the part number for the LED could I please have it too?

Why wait?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stle-help-rgb-inserts#post-2895427
Ofcourse; we dont' know if it was changed on future titles.

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1 week later
21
#230 5 years ago

Here's the real rub...
Stern couldn't have designed the board's pcb w/o schematics. Schematics are a prerequisite before layout.

So, Sterns ONLY reason is because they WANT to keep it a secret.

#246 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There are tons of PCB reverse engineering firms in China & Canada.

You send the PCB, and the company generates the full Schematics & Component List within a week.

Get the Schematics, design a new board (or let them design your board), and mass produce them @$13 each.

All the CNC service companies have been making aftermarket boards like this for years.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make.
What I'm pointing out is Stern has the schematics... All they need to do is "print" to PDF and done.
Stern has a business reason for withholding the schematics. Weither it's to keep people buying spare parts; or to "obstructe" the functionality of the design thru "hidden" schematics so competitors can't "learn" something they want hidden.

1 week later
#345 5 years ago
Quoted from RobF:

I disagree. A new part needs to be preprogrammed with some sort of base bootstrap code in order to communicate on the Spike network.

Not necessarily. Some ATMEL uCs come with a default bootloader pre-programmed.

#348 5 years ago
Quoted from RobF:

A generic bootloader is not going to be helpful for network FW loading.

I thought someone else pointed out that Spike uses SPI (MISO, MOSI, ect) to program the cpu nodes.
If so; the default loader may actually operate with SPI as many uCs do.

Regardless; unless someone actually takes some to reverse engineer the spike system; we're all just speculating.

I for one would <3 to see someone do a full bom analysis on the spike node boards to find out how much Stern is "up selling" their design. I tend to agree with Vid; the bom may be in the $12 range... but I tend to think it's more in the $20-30 range.

Quoted from RobF:

I can confirm that putting a new NXT uC onto a CPU board does not yield a functioning CPU board.

Ah, key data backed up with real world experience. Good to know.

1 week later
#680 5 years ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Give me a break.. it's not as if mods add any real load to these boards. In 99% of cases they're a few watts at most. If they aren't built with that kind of tolerance then that's bad design pure and simple.

Seriously; umm.. have you been paying attention?
I know with 100% certainty the Stern Star Trek games have no power budget on the GI. Try putting an Evo Cap in the pop bumper areas. Causes malfunctions because the node board design actually measures for current draw.

#685 5 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

With all due respect, I disagree. StarTrek is a SAM game. I’ve run 15” backboard led strips and 6” trough lights off the gi with no issue. No issues doing that with spike either.

Your disagreement is noted as a incorrect.

Star Trek Prem/LE was the FIRST design to use an early revision of the Node board. I don't personally know (without schematics for spike) if they are very closely or loosely related. On the Prem/LE; ALL the RGB inserts run off of "Node" boards under the PF. This include the popcap leds and most if not all of the white GI LEDs. The brain/cpu board may be SAM; but the under PF boards are defiantly node-like. The STLE has the exact same microcontroller as the Spike boards (LPC1112) [See post #302 above]. If I were a betting man; I'd bet the STLE "node boards" used a similar protocol as the new spike game and that Stern "used" STLE as a springboard to the latest versions of the SPIKE node boards.

You've been very lucky; because I have 4-6 customers (myself included) who have seen malfunctioning RGB inserts if you load the "node board" Vcc powersupply which generated on the main node board #5 and supplies power to ALL RGB inserts. Some games clearly have more margin that others... but I wouldn't take any bet that there is enough margin in the STLE design to keep them running in 10-15 years when the crappy DC/DC PSU caps on node board 5 age beyond the margin's ability to compensate.

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