They removed those fuses as they're not there any longer. I'm guessing they did this about the time of Spike 2 or when they also removed the HV coin door cut-out switch. Here is the paragraph about circuit protection.

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To be honest, a lot of manufacturers will mark up heavily consumable parts and common failure parts, the business model on spares pricing has always been mark it up until they squeel, then turn the screw back a quarter turn, but honestly - at $25 cost and and $80 sale price, even with huge overheads you are looking at around 50% return on sales, and in my experience that is where people start to squeel.

Awesome news. I think as these games are out longer, troubleshooting and fixing will become easier. That and when we get access to schematics.

Im not familiar with node boards yet but in the future when I do get a game and this happens, can you explain a little more as to what you did?

Did you just take a board from another spot on the same game and swap the 2 because the board that isn't working will still work for another part because the dip switches are different?

Did you hear about one of the "geniuses" wanting to replace a whole screen / motherboard because the screen would not turn on. When in fact it was just one tiny bent pin on the screen backlight connector!!! $900 repair for a 5sec fix!! insane.

This^^^

Lucky situation and knowledgeable support.

Glad you did get it fixed and they helped you get there, but I don't have to connections you do. It's unfortunate it took you digging deep in your rolodex to get this solved. Now enjoy the game, I think its a great one.

But are you still out on future purchases?

I hope not. =(

Glad it's working, but it sounds like the board is still bad, which doesn't help my confidence level with Spike at all.

We need Flash 'Where's the code?' Instinct to start a "Where's the Schematics?" campaign pronto...

lol

It is a toy, just happens to be one you can put out and others are willing to pay pocket change to play

If Stern’s node boards are anything like Plc Devicenet node boards those dip switches are for node addressing in binary. So if you swap node 8 with node 9 you have to change the node address via the dip switches.

In the Plc world, devicenet nodes control all the I/O on an automation machine. I assume the same with these pinball machines. All communication is done over Ethernet back to the processor.

All you did was swap boards/IO to another area of the machine. You still have an input out on that node board that might not be used in the position it’s in now or you just didn’t notice it yet. I would check all switches in the new location.

J.

Yeah I think that's what he said.

All I’m saying is, he moved the problem.

Defineatly moved the problem, but if that I/O is unused in that position then all is mostly well....I say mostly because maybe more will eventually fail on that board.....or not

or it fails with the next game code update that comes with an node firmware update.

So you still have a broken node board that is now put into a new location that just doesn’t use the the broken section of said board?

When’s the part about stern fixing the problem.

A counterpoint, perhaps, is that if he sent the board in to Stern now perhaps he might get some goodwill. If he ignored the fact that the relocated node board is broken and it gives him another year or two without incident and he tries to have the same conversation about goodwill then - maybe he won't be so lucky.

If it were me I think I'd look to sending the node board back to Stern and if they turn around and say "soz you need to stump up $219 for a new one" then you just decline and get your board back and carry on using it in the new location. Obviously if its on route and making money then its a different proposition.

6801 Hillsdale Ct. Indianapolis. No password needed.

I buy my Stern parts from Shaffer Distributing in Livonia for less than Marco & PBL sell them for.

Yeah it's sketchy. I remember when my GB node went out and it's pretty shitty. The fact I don't even know anyone that can fix them, let alone myself, gives a total noob feeling

But let's look at the brightside...if they actually start charging tax and the prices goes up $300 it'll be even easier to quit NIB

Glad it worked out James.

Code requirements. SAM didn't have enough addressable memory to run today's games. The 2006 OS was an update to Whitestar and at some point HAD to be rewritten to use modern components.
Almost everything today has a microprocessor in it. The days of something running for 50 years and all the components being available are gone. That has its advantages but lastability isn't one of them.

Jjp seems to be ok running through hole components, and those games are way more packed than any stern. All I can think is it is a cost cutting move and the fact that they don’t release schematics and that these can’t be easily fixed is a big problem in my mind. Stern has always been good with replacement parts out of warranty, but if I have to pay $200-800 for a node board or CPU, that’s going to be the day I swear off these new games.

Good on you for posting a good resolution and outcome for your issue. SAM is not as bulletproof as everyone thinks. We have had 2 SAM games that required replacement boards. One a CPU board and the other a I/O board. I guarantee you Spike CPU and node boards are much cheaper than SAM boards. Both SAM boards we replaced were SMC technology. Both boards are still used in current games. If Stern release their schematics of their current node boards and they are as cheap to make as everyone one on here seems to think, parallel manufacturers will start making replacement boards at a much cheaper price. This time will come, it is only a matter of time and demand.

If you love the hobby, enjoy it. If you love a game and want to buy it, do it. All this scare mongering about new games does the hobby no good and stops people from buying new games. What it does do is keep the up the prices of old games. Once everyone is more comfortable with the newer tech, different methods of repair will become available, just like what happened to all the 90s B/W games.

I have seen this issue before on a SW and the OP had fitted extra lighting that overloaded the node board. Do you know if there were any mods or extra lighting fitted to the machine?

I would think Stern has proprietary software on the board, forcing any after market vendors to write their own code that doesn't violate Stern's patents. Not saying it isn't possible, just that the software is likely more of an issue then hardware.

We have a board repair guy that also repairs common boards in the lighting and sound industry. We have given him a node board. Most of the components (micro processors, switches, transistors, capacitors etc, etc) are the same part as what is used in the sound and lighting industry. Nothing pinball only related on the node boards. The node boards are only I/O boards. The firmware to run the boards is in the software and software updates for each machine. I do not think there is any pinball rocket science on the node boards.

I understand why Stern have not released circuit diagrams to anyone, the CPU and node boards are not very complicated and can be reproduced quite easily if a person or company really wanted to.

I don't disagree about the hardware, it's just of the shelf stuff that anyone can by at plenty of supply houses. However, this did catch my attention when I was reading the manual not long ago (I just got a AS Pro, so it was still be fresh in my memory). No clue what the 'embedded code' entails, but they would be (sadly) silly to make it simple. Playing the devils advocate - they would load it up with proprietary code so after market vendors would spend more money in court than selling boards. Sad, but that's how the world works today. Hope I'm wrong! Sort of reminds me of back in the 80's when there was an Apple clone...that didn't last long.
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I must of missed the discounts then.
If you know something I don't, please enlighten me.

And yet, this community will continue to pay. We will pay until we have to choose between the mortgage or a game, the car payment or a game, the monthly bills getting paid or a game. They will continue to strip games down, jack prices up, introduce unproven h/w, and the community will pay the price both literally and figuratively.

Why?

Because many in this community HAVE to have the next game. They have to be the kid on the block with the new oooo shiney. They have to keep up with the figurative Jones's. Because some are addicted and dont know how to stop. Because to some, money is no object, and they will buy every new game that comes out because they can. And some will even see this post, feel they need to prove to a nobody like me that they can spend their money how they want, and they'll buy the next game out of principle or whatever reason the next person needs to justify the purchase.

Sales tax from an out of state distributor isnt going to slow this community down, nor a faulty node board design. We will keep buying because we cant help ourselves.

Honestly....... Glad you got this fixed with a simple solution. I have dealt with Chaz numerous times, he's really outstanding at what he does. He may not be the most technical guy like an engineer but what he does do well is stay calm. I cant imagine dealing with problems like this every day.

He AWAYS works me threw my issues and get me the help I need. I personally ask for him every time I need help. Dont get me wrong Pat is fantastic also but I like dealing with Chaz.

Yeah there is no such thing a pinball specific components its all just standard off the shelf components used in millions of products, the node boards just use the components in a way to drive coils / lamps / leds / motors etc... You can definitely create clones of the node boards with either schematics (easy way) or just reverse engineering them (hard way) they are not that complex so wouldn't take long. The bit that makes it extremely hard at this point is the microcontroller. How does it talk to the rest of the system? what commands does it receive / send? I assume when the main board boots it checks what node boards it has attached / might even do some sort of security hand shake with them to make sure its a genuine stern board?? (if they don't now they will when people make clones) You cant just clone the board you need the firmware as well which im not sure if you can even copy from a real node board and if you did it would be extremely illegal. The only legal way would be to write the firmware your self and have the node board pretend its a real one. But to do this you need to know the serial protocol or figure it out with a logic analyser / break any encryption they might have / add later on. One interesting note mentioned above is the firmware can update it self via updates from the main firmware image which is pretty cool. Maybe if you write just the boot loader that speaks the stern update protocol language your fake node board would update it self with the real firmware? (ie you don't sell the board with the firmware the pinball installs it for you when it updates the node board hehe) this would be legal i'm pretty sure?

Any way short version of all that crap i just wrote was i definitely think its possible to make clone node boards. Its just figuring out how they communicate with the stern serial bus / overcoming any security stern may have added or may add in future. These boards must be a pretty nice income for stern so i seriously doubt they are gonna give it up easily and certainly will make it hard as possible for people to create there own! (ie no schematics / adding security to the firmware / protocol etc..)

Edit: from memory TimeBandit decoded the spike serial bus for his arduino led driver boards? or was that another pinball control system?

So I'm a little unclear about this so I will ask. Every time you do a code update on a spike game there is a risk of some type of node board failure?

Can't say about every time but I have seen multiple threads/responses where updates have taken out node boards.

Gee - Wiz I just watched Sterns Spike Electronic System Video and it lead me to believe - Spike was better than sliced bread !

Seems it’s better than sliced bread for them, worse for the pinball community. All this makes me want to stay away from spike machines for now

Thanks for the info. We have not got that far with Spike and Node boards yet. Our goal is to see if we can fix a CPU or Node board if it stuffs up. We do have some great help if needed. If we can fix it, post on Pinside to help others with the same issue. We have a current post about some LED back box lights not working. Since I started the post, the lights have worked every time.

Keep us posted. Good luck! russdx did a good job of expanding on the problem a few posts above. The code/micro-controller is more of his bailiwick, I'm more of an RF/analog designer.

So, Stern cannot build:

Cabinets, separating due to weak leg braces.

Pf’s, ghosting inserts, soft wood and, yes, ball divots early. Some deep.

Electronics, node boards failing.

Then what’s left? Translites look ok. No, wait. Got rid of true backglass mirroring for foil fake.

Ok, wiring? Less is more, right? Just reach up, over or under, that start button will be behind the translite soon...

I say these things in jest, I’ve bought many nib Sterns, never had an issue except Tron LE cpu went dead and due to ‘special LE coding’, had to pay $450 direct exchange boards only.

I’ll just see what other makers will offer. THAT is no jest.

I had a node board failure in my Ghostbusters. Was random and the machine was just over a yr old. Had to go through my distributor and order a new one. $230. The replacement one Stern sent me, yep, faulty out of the package. Had to perform a series of tests to prove it to them by using one that was in the game that worked. So after proving that the new one was bad from the factory, had my distributor order another. Stern “forgot” to send it until the distributor reminded them almost 2 weeks later. Got it and replaced and still ball trough error. I called support and talked to them again and was sent new ball trough boards. Presto, game back up. So my issue was a node board and trough boards at the same time. Also this is the only issue I have had since I bought the machine....just hated spending $200+ and being down for a month.

They have metal corner brackets in the games now.

That seems to be random at the moment - some with, some without.

Really? Good for them if true. With what pin did they start doing this?

100% stock

Was the 1st node board even faulty? Could it have just been the trough boards causing the fail signal to show at the node board? It kinda seems odd that both would blow simultaneously. If so, I wonder if a problem with the one board took out the other board.

Did you have to pay $450 and exchange your broken board? If I’m paying $450 for a new board then they’re not getting my damaged board back for free; it may be fixable. If the board HAS to be returned to stern, then the replacement should not be so expensive.

Ummm But Chaz did not help get it working, It was David Carver