Node Boards- Update- Stern tech fixes issue via email

(Topic ID: 232957)

Node Boards- Update- Stern tech fixes issue via email


By shacklersrevenge

50 days ago



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  • Latest reply 4 days ago by Bublehead
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There are 714 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 15.
61
#1 50 days ago

One switch was registering bad on a drop target on Game of Thrones, ONE. It would not register the up, or the return on the right drop target, causing it to constantly try and reset the bank of drops. You know how many switch problems I had with Sam board set games? ZERO

$219 board to fix one switch is cost efficient? FOR WHO!? Stern? How much does this board cost them to make, $25? Nobody fixes this crap. I swapped the other node board in that's in the game, and the problem goes away.

It's unnecessary crap like this that can burn you right out of the hobby. There was no need for this nonsense. I've contacted Stern about this, on a game that's 3+ years old, their response will dictate my loyalty in 2019 and beyond. Long live the SAM board set, honest to god.

Rant over.

#2 50 days ago

I am having similar problems on a KISS. Won’t boot with the below message. Have to call stern tomorrow but probably a frikin non repairable node board with these mini surface mounted components. If there is enough demand someone will Re-pop these and sell for $100. I think there are only a handful of different part numbers

E7E325A9-BC99-487D-9D50-A70D2B2F1B3A (resized).jpeg
#3 50 days ago

I'd contact Stern or your distributor. Even if it is out of warranty they will often replaced it at no charge.

11
#4 50 days ago

Saw the writing on the wall, sold my spike games. Won’t buy any more.

#5 50 days ago

Similar issue with my AS pro. Stern hooked me up. My distributor got it warrantied.

#6 50 days ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

$219 board to fix one switch is cost efficient? FOR WHO!? Stern? How much does this board cost them to make, $25? Nobody fixes this crap. I swapped the other node board in that's in the game, and the problem goes away.

Highly doubt it costs them more than $5. These are not big, complex, high quality boards with any costly componentry.

#7 50 days ago

Think aboot how bad this is for route operators. Machines getting more play than those of a hobbyist/collector and having a node board eat a couple week's worth of the operator's share.

Of course route ops pay somewhat less for their parts.

#8 50 days ago
Quoted from athens95:

I am having similar problems on a KISS. Won’t boot with the below message. Have to call stern tomorrow but probably a frikin non repairable node board with these mini surface mounted components. If there is enough demand someone will Re-pop these and sell for $100. I think there are only a handful of different part numbers
[quoted image]

I had to replace the cabinet node board on my KISS Pro. After talking to Stern tech support I learned that the cabinet node board is by far the node board that fails the most. You should be able to do a node board test and see which board is the problem. Main symptom for my game was the start button switch quit working.

#9 50 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Think aboot how bad this is for route operators. Machines getting more play than those of a hobbyist/collector and having a node board eat a couple week's worth of the operator's share.
Of course route ops pay somewhat less for their parts.

Yes, not only is there the issue of the cost of the parts, but your game is down and not earning. When I first started to route Spike games I considered keeping a whole node board set on hand until I realized that Stern kept changing the boards from game to game. Might be worthwhile to do it now as long as all the current node boards are backward compatible.

#10 50 days ago

I swear George Gomez said that Stern would be releasing schematics on Spike node boards way back during Expo 2017 or something. I just remember reading this in passing and not paying too much attention to it other than thinking "Good". However, so far nothing has happened in regards to schematics, which makes me think that Stern has back tracked on this comment by Gomez, as they'd rather sell new boards at insane mark-ups than have schematics out there that might assist people in making their own repairs (if people are brave enough with surface mount work) or assist competitors in making more cost effective aftermarket replacement boards.

Someone has got schematics on them, as it would seem that Stern employees designed them and then supplied them to a board manufacturer that made the boards.

#11 50 days ago
Quoted from BrianBannon:

Yes, not only is there the issue of the cost of the parts, but your game is down and not earning. When I first started to route Spike games I considered keeping a whole node board set on hand until I realized that Stern kept changing the boards from game to game. Might be worthwhile to do it now as long as all the current node boards are backward compatible.

And sadly this is the BIGGEST reason why I don’t route Spike. The only spike pin I have is a PCC on route and it’s there because it makes beaucoup bucks. Everything else is SAM or WPC

#12 50 days ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

One switch was registering bad on a drop target on Game of Thrones, ONE. It would not register the up, or the return on the right drop target, causing it to constantly try and reset the bank of drops. You know how many switch problems I had with Sam board set games? ZERO
$219 board to fix one switch is cost efficient? FOR WHO!? Stern? How much does this board cost them to make, $25? Nobody fixes this crap. I swapped the other node board in that's in the game, and the problem goes away.
It's unnecessary crap like this that can burn you right out of the hobby. There was no need for this nonsense. I've contacted Stern about this, on a game that's 3+ years old, their response will dictate my loyalty in 2019 and beyond. Long live the SAM board set, honest to god.
Rant over.

Yes. For Stern. You should contact your distributor though -

#13 50 days ago

what is PCC?

#14 50 days ago

Pabst can crusher

#15 50 days ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

I swear George Gomez said that Stern would be releasing schematics on Spike node boards way back during Expo 2017 or something. I just remember reading this in passing and not paying too much attention to it other than thinking "Good". However, so far nothing has happened in regards to schematics, which makes me think that Stern has back tracked on this comment by Gomez, as they'd rather sell new boards at insane mark-ups than have schematics out there that might assist people in making their own repairs (if people are brave enough with surface mount work) or assist competitors in making more cost effective aftermarket replacement boards.
Someone has got schematics on them, as it would seem that Stern employees designed them and then supplied them to a board supplier which made the boards.

I asked the question during his seminar at Pintastic last summer. The response was the material and tutorials are coming. Not sure if there is a video of that seminar available, but it's on it if there is one.

#16 50 days ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Saw the writing on the wall, sold my spike games. Won’t buy any more

Sucks for you because you are missing out. Live for today-not for tomorrow or yesterday. Stern Spike has it's flaws but damn their games are so much fun! As long as Stern is still in business I have no worries-they always take care of me.

Also was wondering if James called Stern or not?

#17 50 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Sucks for you because you are missing out. Live for today-not for tomorrow or yesterday. Stern Spike has it's flaws but damn their games are so much fun! As long as Stern is still in business I have no worries-they always take care of me.
Also was wondering if James called Stern or not?

MEH lots of great games out there, I don't mind avoiding Spike for now. Who knows maybe if one of their Spike games becomes a hit I'll give it a whirl....or maybe not

#18 50 days ago

Just checked, Sams Publishing (Successor to Howard W. Sams) does not offer a Photofact of Stern Node boards.

Yet......

#19 50 days ago

Wow 1 switch...that is pretty pathetic.

25
#20 50 days ago

Nobody nodes, the trouble I’ve seen
Nobody nodes the sorrow...

#21 50 days ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Sucks for you because you are missing out. Live for today-not for tomorrow or yesterday. Stern Spike has it's flaws but damn their games are so much fun! As long as Stern is still in business I have no worries-they always take care of me.
Also was wondering if James called Stern or not?

I keep trying to call them but can’t get them on the horn, email hasn’t been returned.

Yeah, great games and lots of fun, but not when they break at random and there’s no way for the average joe to fix them.

#22 50 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

I asked the question during his seminar at Pintastic last summer. The response was the material and tutorials are coming. Not sure if there is a video of that seminar available, but it's on it if there is one.

They've had all the documentation since WWE in January 2015. Or arguably Transformers The Pin (2012) or Avengers The Pin (2013). They wouldn't have been able to produce them otherwise.

They're withholding them for obvious reasons. They know they're unreliable (circuit diagrams will further reinforce the view that they're crap), and they're very cheap to produce and can charge massive amounts for them. Shitty boards failing are a revenue stream for them. They weren't with SAM.

Releasing all the documentation will hasten the production of 3rd party replacements, which would remove that revenue stream or force them to sell them for a fraction of the price (& to add fusing / breakers - as 3rd party solutions would).

#23 50 days ago

Seems like someone needs to reengineer these nodes into a non surface mount board with regular components that can be changed out. They appear to be a modern version of the “Vidiot” board.

#24 50 days ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Saw the writing on the wall, sold my spike games. Won’t buy any more.

Same here. Wanted several different games but will settle for just playing them on route.

31
#25 50 days ago

SO finally got through to a guy named Chaz, and the exchange was polite.

I explained to him the issue, that it was ONE switch not working and how I troubleshot it, and I asked him if there was anything they could do.

Chaz: "'well...they're kind of designed a certain way that makes them very difficult to repair, not sure what we can do...maybe send it in, and we'll look at it...''

Me: Is there a way you can swap it out so there isn't a lot of down time?''

Chaz: "it's something you need to order from your distributorrrrrr, or parts supplierrrrrr, eeeeyah...I mean, we're goingggg to be offering the schematics for them soon, very sooooon, but they're not easy to repair..... but I mean, you can try....''

Me: So my game needs to be down for several weeks unless I spend $220 for a new one, that isn't really guaranteed to not fail like this one and it runs two of these things, which means the other one can or will fail eventually too probably, and there is no real way to repair it over ONE simple switch? I own 6 Stern machines and like what you guys do but this isn't really good work''

Chaz: Yeahhhh...well...I mean, that's really all we can do right now, not sure what else we can do...sorry you're having troubles (chuckles) but you'd have to buy a new board
...thanks for calling (chuckles a few times more) WTF?

Okay Stern, game on. I'll buy that new ridiculously overpriced board and keep the rest of money going forward and chuckle all the way to the bank! From now on, SAM or before works for me and I'll sing the song of your Stern node JUNK.

Adios boys!

#26 50 days ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

SI finally got through to a guy named Chaz, and the exchange was polite.
I explained to him the issue, that it was ONE switch not working and how I troubleshot it, and I asked him if there was anything they could do.
Chaz: "'well...they're kind of designed a certain way that makes them very difficult to repair, not sure what we can do...maybe send it in, and we'll look at it...''
Me: Is there a way you can swap it out so there isn't a lot of down time?''
Chaz: "it's something you need to order from your distributor, or parts supplierrrrrr, eeeeyah...I mean, we're goingggg to be offering the schematics for them soon, very sooooon, but they're not easy to repair..... but you can try....''
Me: So my game needs to be down for several weeks unless I spend $220 for a new one, that isn't really guaranteed to not fail like this one, with no real way to repair it over ONE simple switch? I own 6 Stern machines and like what you guys do but this isn't really good work''
Chaz: Yeahhhh...well...I mean, that's really all we can do right now, not sure what else but you'd have to buy a new board
...thanks for calling (chuckles a few times) WTF?
Okay Stern, game on. I'll buy that new ridiculously overpriced board and keep the rest of money going forward. From now on, SAM or before works for me and I'll sing the song of Stern node JUNK.
Adios boys!

ouch

that hurts.

Sorry, but I also commend you for putting your money where your mouth is! If more people get burned (I am seeing more and more node related failures so this is just a matter of time) and also hold tight and let Stern know then they are bound to change.

These node boards should be like $50 at tops and should also be 100% backwards compatible. Then it would actually make sense. Every op would have a spare on hand at all times and then just be able to eat the cost when inevitably something goes wrong.

At $220 plus shipping and a few weeks of lost income on a game that is rough.

I would for sure call your distributor and let them know your displeasure and ask for a free board to be shipped priority.

#27 50 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Nobody nodes, the trouble I’ve seen
Nobody nodes the sorrow...

#28 50 days ago

It sucks. I like the node board concept As they are selling these things to more inexperienced newbies than ever and it’s the easiest way to “repair” games for people with little or no tech skills.

But get the price down or make them more serviceable.

10
#29 50 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It sucks. I like the node board concept As they are selling these things to more inexperienced newbies than ever and it’s the easiest way to “repair” games for people with little or no tech skills.
But get the price down or make them more serviceable.

If the node boards were built or constructed like Sam quality? No problems!

The fact that these things are built like crap and aren't durable AND cost $219! GTFO!

EDIT: and the real shit kicker???! The fact that every other release, they're going up TWO HUNDRED BUCKS a pop! For this?

12
#30 50 days ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

The fact that these things are built like crap and aren't durable AND cost $219! GTFO!

Be happy that your an American, I’d be willing to bet that it will be close to $400cdn to get one of these with shipping and currency conversion. I can only imagine what the EU or Aussie guys pay

#31 50 days ago

I as a player/pinballbuyer wanted to buy IM but am passing because of the uncertainties of future repairs and node failures.

Additionally, I had a customer who I helped update his GB and it took out a node board. It was a nightmare to get working. This spike system made me look incompetent as I couldn't give an explanation of why it failed. I'm sure he wont be a repeat customer as he probably thinks I caused his node to fail.
I just had guy today with a SW that needed a flipper fixed and passed on the call. As ive mentioned before pinballs can have a personality of their own as far as breaking down. When I go on a home service call in a way Im married to the game as Im the last one that worked on the game. With Sam, Wpc, System 6-11 etc if some gremlin pops up while im on the call I can easily fix or anytime after I leave etc because Ive seen almost everything. Most failures have a cause or explanation I can give to the client.
Possibly in the future I will buy or work on Spike game but for now I will just enjoy them on location as they are lots of fun to play.

43
#32 50 days ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

SO finally got through to a guy named Chaz, and the exchange was polite.
I explained to him the issue, that it was ONE switch not working and how I troubleshot it, and I asked him if there was anything they could do.
Chaz: "'well...they're kind of designed a certain way that makes them very difficult to repair, not sure what we can do...maybe send it in, and we'll look at it...''
Me: Is there a way you can swap it out so there isn't a lot of down time?''
Chaz: "it's something you need to order from your distributorrrrrr, or parts supplierrrrrr, eeeeyah...I mean, we're goingggg to be offering the schematics for them soon, very sooooon, but they're not easy to repair..... but I mean, you can try....''
Me: So my game needs to be down for several weeks unless I spend $220 for a new one, that isn't really guaranteed to not fail like this one and it runs two of these things, which means the other one can or will fail eventually too probably, and there is no real way to repair it over ONE simple switch? I own 6 Stern machines and like what you guys do but this isn't really good work''
Chaz: Yeahhhh...well...I mean, that's really all we can do right now, not sure what else we can do...sorry you're having troubles (chuckles) but you'd have to buy a new board
...thanks for calling (chuckles a few times more) WTF?
Okay Stern, game on. I'll buy that new ridiculously overpriced board and keep the rest of money going forward and chuckle all the way to the bank! From now on, SAM or before works for me and I'll sing the song of your Stern node JUNK.
Adios boys!

Chaz is an absolute great guy that has helped us repair many Stern machines over the last many years. I am not sure how many years he has worked at Stern, I am sure it is a lot. He works answering emails on his days off and is totally committed to helping pinheads keep their machines running. I understand your frustration with Spike, please do not take that frustration out on Chaz. He has done a fantastic job for many of us for many years.

#33 50 days ago
Quoted from pinballplusMN:

I as a player/pinballbuyer wanted to buy MET but am passing because of the uncertainties of future repairs and node failures.
Additionally, I had a customer who I helped update his GB and it took out a node board. It was a nightmare to get working. This spike system made me look incompetent as I couldn't give an explanation of why it failed. I'm sure he wont be a repeat customer as he probably thinks I caused his node to fail.
I just had guy today with a SW that needed a flipper fixed and passed on the call. As ive mentioned before pinballs can have a personality of their own as far as breaking down. When I go on a home service call in a way Im married to the game as Im the last one that worked on the game. With Sam, Wpc, System 6-11 etc if some gremlin pops up while im on the call I can easily fix or anytime after I leave etc because Ive seen almost everything. Most failures have a cause or explanation I can give to the client.
Possibly in the future I will buy or work on Spike game but for now I will just enjoy them on location as they are lots of fun to play.

I have good news for you MET is SAM

#34 50 days ago
Quoted from pinballplusMN:

I as a player/pinballbuyer wanted to buy MET but am passing because of the uncertainties of future repairs and node failures.
Additionally, I had a customer who I helped update his GB and it took out a node board. It was a nightmare to get working. This spike system made me look incompetent as I couldn't give an explanation of why it failed. I'm sure he wont be a repeat customer as he probably thinks I caused his node to fail.
I just had guy today with a SW that needed a flipper fixed and passed on the call. As ive mentioned before pinballs can have a personality of their own as far as breaking down. When I go on a home service call in a way Im married to the game as Im the last one that worked on the game. With Sam, Wpc, System 6-11 etc if some gremlin pops up while im on the call I can easily fix or anytime after I leave etc because Ive seen almost everything. Most failures have a cause or explanation I can give to the client.
Possibly in the future I will buy or work on Spike game but for now I will just enjoy them on location as they are lots of fun to play.

Met is a SAM game

#35 50 days ago
Quoted from pinballplusMN:

I as a player/pinballbuyer wanted to buy MET but am passing because of the uncertainties of future repairs and node failures.

#36 50 days ago
Quoted from pinballplusMN:

I as a player/pinballbuyer wanted to buy MET but am passing because of the uncertainties of future repairs and node failures.
Additionally, I had a customer who I helped update his GB and it took out a node board. It was a nightmare to get working. This spike system made me look incompetent as I couldn't give an explanation of why it failed. I'm sure he wont be a repeat customer as he probably thinks I caused his node to fail.
I just had guy today with a SW that needed a flipper fixed and passed on the call. As ive mentioned before pinballs can have a personality of their own as far as breaking down. When I go on a home service call in a way Im married to the game as Im the last one that worked on the game. With Sam, Wpc, System 6-11 etc if some gremlin pops up while im on the call I can easily fix or anytime after I leave etc because Ive seen almost everything. Most failures have a cause or explanation I can give to the client.
Possibly in the future I will buy or work on Spike game but for now I will just enjoy them on location as they are lots of fun to play.

#37 50 days ago

I agree it sucks when this happens and it has happened to me also.

It sounds like Stern could repair or replace the board if you send it in, but this is not acceptable to you due to the downtime? I can understand how Stern might not want to send new boards out at their expense to everyone who calls.

I agree it would be great if boards never failed or if they did they were $50 to replace. I wish new games were $3k also.

My own experience is Stern has been more than fair with replacing these boards even when they are out of warranty. Going through your distributor might give you more leverage as others have mentioned. My experience (with both JJP and Stern) was that they would replace the board but I would be charged for it or pay up front and get it refunded when I returned the old one.

Right now you have a non-working game, you don't want to return the board, you can't fix it yourself, and you don't want to buy a new one. You've suggested Stern go back to SAM boards. That isn't going to happen, but if they did it still doesn't solve your problem.

Quoted from pinballplusMN:

I as a player/pinballbuyer wanted to buy MET but am passing because of the uncertainties of future repairs and node failures.

Buy with confidence, Met doesn't have node boards

#38 50 days ago

Also another reason why I recently picked up a AC/DC vault......brand new in the box SAM! ahhhhh sadly will probably be my last NIB Stern unless future vaults continue the SAM/WhiteStar tradition.

#39 50 days ago

Yeah, MET is Sam, I never worry about it going down, the things just play and play and play.

#40 50 days ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I have good news for you MET is SAM

meant IM already own MET. love it!

#41 50 days ago

Chaz has always been platinum with me as well. If documentation comes out on these node boards it will be better.

#42 50 days ago
Quoted from twenty84:

You've suggested Stern go back to SAM boards. That isn't going to happen, but if they did it still doesn't solve your problem.

Buy with confidence, Met doesn't have node boards

I'm suggesting they stop taking short-cuts and cost-cutting and stop being so cheap with everything!

If that's how they want to be making great playing games built like shit, my money is nice and cool in the bank.

#43 50 days ago
Quoted from pinballplusMN:

meant IM already own MET. love it!

Good news, IM is also SAM! Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (Premium/LE) & Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (Pro) on the other hand are both SPIKE2.

#44 50 days ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

Chaz: "'well...they're kind of designed a certain way that makes them very difficult to repair, not sure what we can do...maybe send it in, and we'll look at it...''

Stern meets Apple? This is one of the most customer-unfriendly statements I've heard from any company in years. Sad that it actually came from a pinball company.

Quoted from twenty84:

My own experience is Stern has been more than fair with replacing these boards even when they are out of warranty

Even better, offer a "maybe" warranty so customers think they're covered... til they're not.

6 years without schematics is complete bullshit. I want a Maiden but I guess I will have to make do with location play til Stern sorts this out. Thanks for the reminder, Shackler.

10
#45 50 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Chaz is an absolute great guy that has helped us repair many Stern machines over the last many years. I am not sure how many years he has worked at Stern, I am sure it is a lot. He works answering emails on his days off and is totally committed to helping pinheads keep their machines running. I understand your frustration with Spike, please do not take that frustration out on Chaz. He has done a fantastic job for many of us for many years.

That may be true but in this instance he's the face of Stern, for this customer and no doubt others.

Distilling this down to the simple facts. If a broken switch indirectly costs circa $200 to repair, and/or involves significant downtime, then it's just plain anti-consumer behaviour. I would not be particularly happy with someone basically telling me "sucks to be you pal" on the phone, even if they are being honest.

There's no reason for them to be designed that way other than - as Chad candidly put it - to explicitly make end user repair difficult if not impossible, and to serve as a secondary revenue stream.

#46 50 days ago

This is why I don't buy Apple…

I've fixed my own desktops and laptops my whole life. I've also replaced screens on tablets before. All companies are making it harder to fix stuff, but Apple is making it much, much harder than most.

Now I'm afraid to buy a Spike game. OP wasn't left with many options other than to fork out $219

#47 50 days ago

200 bucks a Node board. Stern should sell them at 50 bucks a pop.

No one is minting coin in buckets these days. The whole concept of coins is silently killing this industry.

#48 50 days ago

If you think a node board failure will keep the game from working, hope nobody finds out what happens if your SD card becomes corrupt. And, no, you cannot just go buy a new SD card and put the latest code on it. One reason why I clone the original SD card so at least I can get it up and running in a few hours.

#49 50 days ago
Quoted from schudel5:

If you think a node board failure will keep the game from working, hope nobody finds out what happens if your SD card becomes corrupt....

Well....wtf happens?!

#50 50 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Well....wtf happens?!

You call stern and they send you a new one.

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