well what can one say Hyperion ?
when I started out in the late 90s I was more into the modern tables and now into the older games but the more one experiences or comes into contact with other eras the more sway

I tried to add to my history of machines owned and it only went back to 1975 I think. Lots of cool older pins. Played a Radical for the first time last weekend and it was, well...Radical!

I certainly dont choose to like a game cause everyone else does and i dont think many else do to be honest...the top 20 is what it is by the majority of us pinball fans.

In my personal top 10 i have a 1989 and 1990 Pin in there being Elvira Party and Whirlwind

Ramps,toys dot matrix equals FUN! which i find lacking on the old pins. I grew up on the nineties pins so the early stuff really bores me in comparison.

Four of my personal top five pins are before 1990:

1. Black Knight 2000: 1989
2. Haunted House: 1982
3. Earthshaker: 1989
4. Twilight Zone: 1993
5. Swords of Fury: 1987

I have a love for the early ss models. They were on route when I was first started playing. I acquired the ones I enjoyed the most and then started buying newer games. The '90's were some great years for pinball and I would love to have them all. As for the playing time they receive....I mainly play the newer ones so I can somewhat relate to the ratings. The toys really do make them more enjoyable to me.

I was looking at the top 200 list today looking for the X-Files machine, didn't see it. SO...

Do I need to go get my eyes checked our was it knocked off the top 200 list.

For that machine to NOT be from the 70's or 80's, and to be off the list says something
about love for newer machines.

Maybe I need to go back and check the list again.

I think it's off the list, and for good reason. I liked the show, but that pin is bad.

I think part of the problem with older pins is finding one in good condition so it won't bias you against it. I grew up playing the early SS pins and like to play them but to keep my interest it has to be fast. Most are not. Ramps, subways and diverters just add a whole new dimension to the game the old ones can't match.

I have great respect for golden era (1990's) williams bally machines. I own No Fear (which i'm considering unloading to replace with something else) and Twilight Zone - I'd love to try some of the earlier ones, but the only one i've gotten to spend more than a few games on is Fire! which is actually quite nice, but lacks the depth that the DMD era machines have. I love the music to it, which makes it sound like it's from an era decades before the age of pinball. It's hard to find older games in good condition, though.

Next time I go to Pinball Wizard, i'm going to make a point of spending some time with the earlier machines. I need to get a list of their tables, so I can have studied the basic rules. Earlier machines... and TOTAN. Since I now have a twilight zone at home, and TZ is an incredibly expensive game to play.

I personally can't stand the newer stern machines. I think they just make it onto the charts because they're around, and people get to play them - many places, sadly, only have stern machines. So that's what people play. If all you've ever eaten is gruel, you start to compare the horse-hoof flavored gruel and the rat-flavored gruel, and so when you taste sweetened gruel, you think it tastes great, and tell everyone how great sweetened gruel is, and rate it with 8's, 9's and 10's - because they've never tasted steak... or even hamburger. Some of the new machines *coughironmancough*, I wouldn't take for free (unless I was allowed to sell it to some sucker and buy a real pinball machine - or two, with what new machines seem to go for!). As far as i'm aware, in my experience playing machines (which isn't extensive), there is one really good stern machine (LotR, obv) and like three that I would play given the chance and nothing better (in order, Ripleys Belive it or Not - maybe I wouldn't like it now, last played it a while ago, but i kinda liked the playfield layout. I walked up to the machine and was like "Oh, a Pat Lawlor machine?" without even knowing or looking at the designer credits, NASCAR (a lot of interesting, and novel, twists), TSPP (people seem to love this one - I think it's deep, and with a lot of stuff on the playfield, but the complicated ruleset is just too much to keep track of, and imo lacks cohesion, and the playfield layout doesn't flow well, and the mechanics guy should be shot* for the garage door.). Note that all of those are early Sterns. Their new pins are have nothing interesting to offer, and look like they cribbed the game design from another pin (Shrek, which was an exact copy of another stern machine, just re-skinned, is a particularly gross example).

*Shot when lit of course....

How dare you denigrate rat-flavored and horse-hoof flavored gruel!

Look at my avatar. I love early SS games. Fathom, Xenon, Embryon, Gorgar, Flash Gordon are all games that I love to play and seek out. Also the system 11 pins are just as good, if not better than most dmd pins. I think the thing is that this website is a website for pinball COLLECTORS, not just pin enthusiasts, and as far as collectors go, a deeper game is usually more sought after because they are making a substantial financial investment when deciding which pin to purchase, and depth has a lot to do with that decision process. That's why those pins have higher rankings. Not because its members don't find older games to be fun. Just that newer ones have more modes, more depth, longer lastibility, wizard modes, and more storytelling than the old ones.

A good game is a good game nit players used to DM games quite often don't get older games, which can have great and complicated rule sets and they tend not to play them long enough to suss them out.
My top 10 currently ranges from 76-2009 but in when I first got interested would have been just from 1990 onwards.

I really like my Haunted House. It's a maintenance intensive machine but I never tire of it.

P.S. I will be working on the Pinside FTP later today. (Gotta mow my acre since I finally got my rider back fixed) I have already set up a No-Ip DNS redirect.
For those of you wanting to host a FTP, web page, etc on your own PC's it's a nice free service.

www.no-ip.com

I don't know how old you mean but HH ranks 12 of my top 56....

The late 1970s and 1980s had the most inventive and beautiful games. You forgot Paragon on that list. I see a number of Six Million Dollar Man (3) and Harlem Globetrotters (4) games out here in Seattle. And Stern's Big Game has always been one of my Top Ten.

Finrod's list is a good one!

One of the themes at the last NW Pinball Show was the entire System 11 collection. Now THAT was fun!

I have asked Robin to update the Collections section with EM games, since if Pinside now has a Pinball Locator, it's gonna fail if the program doesn't know about EMs! I've even sent him my IPDB digest database tables to get that started.

There's the Tiger Lounge in the south of Seattle that has eight pins. All of them are EMs.

There's a joke: If a Stern Big Butt Hunter and a Stern NBA (or World Poke-her Tour) were pushed off a ten-story building at the same time, which would hit the ground first?
The answer: Who Cares?

I think you are right on the money. There are many older games that I absolutely love playing on location that I wouldn't necessarily want to own. Since most people are only fortunate enough to have a relatively small collection, they gravitate toward pins that have good replay value.

The only reason I moved to the newer games was the backglass issues. I always walked on egg shells every time I handled them. Flaking, clear coat, mega-buck replacement and getting one sent to you in one piece was a headache. However, I really liked a lot of the old themes better besides being cheaper and easy to maintain. I miss these pins but don't miss the stress of the backglass. These pins are in a set all of their own and probably shouldn't be judged with games like MB, CV, TZ. I never see these games on location. I really like playing them as a change of pace and they're still very addicting. My two cents.

i'd say that the ems had more original themes than ss machines and pins of today. all the machines 2000 and newer are based on movies. really?

It's true, original themes rule but seem to be dead. Jersey Jack has promised one, but that it'll years away. I do miss the one offs and original themes on pins.

I never thought about that until now. It kind of irritates me now that you have mentioned it. Other than Rolling Stones (complete failure IMO) I can't think of a title off the top of my head in years that isn't movie based. Where is the originality in that?

Also, and I know this may seal the opinion of my oddities, I feel like some modern pins are TOO complicated. Sometimes it's nice to have a great flowing game with minimalistic objectives to accomplish (T2?)

There have been a number of machines since 2000 that haven't been based on movies (Nascar, Big Buck Hunter, Simpson's Pinball Party, Playboy, etc.), but I believe they've all been licensed properties since Stern came into the picture again.

I'm looking forward to seeing what JJP comes up with for their second machine, since word is that will be a non-licensed theme.

Thanks JarJar fan, I did say off the top of my head Which means A:I have a crappy memory and B:Other than the possible exception of TSPP, nothing stands out as memorable!!

I think of games like TOTAN, CV, MM, TOM, FH, WH20, whirlwind and realize that they really stand out to me as particularly interesting, well thought out themes.

Those are all great titles but they didn't sell very well compared to the licensed pins of that era. TAF, IJ and TZ all sold over 12,000 copies each. As a manufacturer you cannot argue with cold hard stats.

Quite true, and IJ is probably my all time fav pin. I am just daydreaming a little thinking about how to come up with an original "theme" and have it be marketable. The only experience I have that isn't x-rated, that hasn't already been covered is ATC (air traffic control) but that would take some serious help to even come up with a story board that anyone would even care about. Unless you put a scantily clad Angelina Jolie on the cabinet ala Pushing Tin.

Maybe some save the country from the terrorists theme would go over well ?

(and yeah .. got lots of x-rated themes popping off the bumpers in my brain too)

LOL!! You're not that far away from me, BD. I would happily work on it with you if I can have a cut of your copyrights???

Yeah, most of those non-movie themed Stern games are pretty disposable. Not that I've played many of them, but they just don't seem very compelling.

Games like TOTAN, MM, AFM, etc. are definitely the cream of the crop for original themes. I'd love to have any one of those machines in my collection.

I'm into both, check my collection and wish list. Here's my latest project, a 1981 Bally Centaur which is coming along nicely!!

IMG_2211.JPG IMG_2215.JPG IMG_2214.JPG

very nice centuar, i've also been looking to system 11's and stuff like flash gordon,paragon, and swords of fury just due to the lower price range. just tough to find in working condition for said "good prices" have to learn big fixes without diagnostics eventually. just a big jump to make as far as "stuff" on the playfield and gameplay. the other thing is they are never seen in the "wild" and therefore rated much less. sterns are everywhere like it or not they'll be the ones most people rate and get used to. good gruel analogy

I grew up when Gorgar, Firepower, Black Knight were new in the arcades. Those games rocked. The problem is better pins kept coming out, Pinbot, BK2000, Taxi. Then the DMD era hit. I was just finishing college and holy crap they were fun. Fast forward to now. I played the classics at a local show a year ago and they just seem dated to me. Not much to do. Still fun, but for me while art and theme are important, it is how much fun the game is and that is where the DMD's shine. LOTR, Spiderman, Monster Bash and Twilight Zone are just plain fun and with a purpose, a goal so to speak, with amazing playfield toys, wire forms, sounds, and some serious mechanical engineering going on unthought of in the 80's. Monster Bash for example is a Universal studios license but the game looks fantastic! I love Addams Family, probably my favorite game,the art is simple but works, then I think it is almost 20 years old. So I guess at the end of the day it is a classic theme too and I realize the old games are still fun.

Brokedad,I believe they should combine that theme,with a save the Country from Illegal Aliens theme.

That Centaur looks great! I LOVE that game.

I don't really have a settled order after my top 5 other than Pinbot at 6th, but some other machines I've liked:

For Stern (2000 and later), I like Simpsons Pinball Party and Elvis (though TSPP wasn't much fun when the ball lock was broken), Lord of the Rings seemed good but I never had the chance to play it enough to really get into it.

For post-Twilight Zone machines (I consider TZ to be the peak of the Williams era), Medieval Madness, Attack From Mars, World Cup Soccer, Star Trek: TNG, Jack-Bot, Junkyard were all good machines but I don't think any of them will end up in my top ten.

All the Williams(/Bally) Pat Lawlor machines are good, though perhaps Road Show is the least of those. Banzai Run, Whirlwind, Funhouse, The Addams Family, No Good Gofers are all solid good machines. Other good machines from that same timeframe are Whitewater, Taxi, both Elviras (Elvira and the Party Monsters, Scared Stiff), Rollergames, Doctor Who, Terminator 2.

Earlier than that there's Eight Ball Deluxe, Laser Cue, Sorcerer, Space Shuttle, Comet, High Speed of course, F-14 Tomcat, Fire! and Cyclone.

I don't have a lot of experience with machines older than that, but Gorgar, Laser Ball, Firepower, Black Knight, and Fathom were fun to play.

I like the older pins but they are harder to move into the room.

Even though I'm primarily interested in newer dmd games now, I first started collecting the games I played as a teen in the early 80's. It's not hard to see why toys, dmds, more ramps, etc. were added to games after that. It was pinball evolution, as well as trying very hard to win back players who had gravitated over to video games. It was easy to see this evolution when you were hanging in the arcades back then. It was a necessary change, and I think a very good change for pinball.

All that said, I still appreciate my older SS games immensely, and love how they look and play, but I'm spending most of my playing time on TZ and Spidey these days.

I don't own any EMs yet, but someday I will just to round out these eras for my personal taste. I will probably never go back as far as woodrails, because I don't have any memories of playing on these games thus the lack of interest.

I love earlier games, just have to be super selective due to space issues. I guess I need a bigger house.