(Topic ID: 201693)

No rainbow puke club! (Post pics of worst color gi fails)


By Mitch

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 3 days ago by CaptainNeo
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    Topic poll

    “Do you dislike color GI”

    • Yes get rid of it. (Welcome to the club) 166 votes
      56%
    • No I really enjoy it ( your in the wrong thread) 41 votes
      14%
    • A little is ok at the very back under ramps ( I guess you can stay) 90 votes
      30%

    (297 votes)

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    11
    #45 1 year ago

    I just did a writeup on facebook about the shitty use of LED's in games. And lately it seems to be an epidemic. So either we are getting a lot of newbs in the hobby, that other newbs are trying to encourage. Or the blind community has really taken a liking to pinball in the last year. I can't believe the amount of colortrash out there.

    And no, it's not a matter of opinion. There is a science behind light distribution and how it reflects off other colors, both reflective, as well as translucency.

    It's like cooking. If you want to make a cake with mayo instead of eggs. Sure...you can do it. But expect people to give you rave reviews when they are puking because of what you did.

    #65 1 year ago

    they didn't make bigfoot look like bumble. They should have went with the cool white for that one. Would still have given that effect, but made it so you can actually see something.

    #92 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinstein:

    That black hole looks good. Everyone wants immersive pinball. Now if your floating around in space there is probably not alot of warm white light. I think the blue enhances the theme on this one. Can I say that or is this thread only for negative commentary?

    have you ever played black hole? It's hard enough to see with normal lights. This would be damn near impossible to play unless you had it setup in the middle of your yard in the middle of summer afternoon.

    #93 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinstein:

    Fair enough. The LEDs do emit more lumens than an incandescent and are actually brighter though a different hue. Some people think my girlfriend is fat, I think she looks good, but she's sexiest in the dark.

    pics so we can judge.

    #119 1 year ago

    it's kind of like having a little dung beetle familiar companion. I had one too, but he took his ball and bat and went home.

    #123 1 year ago

    blue is one of the hardest colors for me to color match when Doing playfields. And my cable box has the clock in Blue LED. It's impossible to read ever. Just looks like a light shitmess.

    11
    #127 1 year ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    I'm not a fan of colored GI almost always... but I did my black hole in blue and it looks sweet AF in my opinion
    » YouTube video

    nope it's a major fail. Black hole is hard enough to see even with the brightest whites you can find. Adding a color, making visibility about 0%

    #131 1 year ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    I think this is Neo’s

    HA, i've never owned DM. so the joke is on you.

    #149 1 year ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    I hope you guys sleep well knowing I'm going to LED the shit out of every game I get my hands on.
    I have a few additional LED strips, and plan on many more.

    i'll look forward to buying your games on the secondary market at a huge discount

    #155 1 year ago

    i can't tell, because I can't see anything. What game is that?

    #163 1 year ago

    oh here is a good Facebook thread going on. These guys really think this shit looks good. Are these people just using CRT monitors that are severely bleached out or what is going on? How can anyone truly look at that, and think it looks good? Here's the FB post if you want to have some laughs.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/299213816922644/permalink/849874061856614/?sale_post_id=849874061856614&comment_id=850205121823508&reply_comment_id=850438858466801&notif_id=1510031834448895&notif_t=group_comment_mention

    #181 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gorno:

    I am going to side with the others in that facebook thread. You are trolling for what purpose? I am pretty sure you don't need to lead your anti-LED agenda on someone else's sale post. No one cares that you think the prices should be cut in half because you are too lazy to change the bulbs. If you aren't interested in buying the game; then move on like a adult. Likening works of priceless art with pinball machines? Come on.

    it wasn't really that I was expecting it to be worth half. It was driving the point, that when you sell a game, you want it to show the best that you can. Over there, is where this color puke thing is becoming the biggest problem. One guy does it, and the others pat each other on the back, which encourages the next one and so on. That's why it's so out of control over there. Nobody has the balls to tell them it looks like cold dog shit. So with me starting the coversation off with a serious reduction offer because of the lighting. It ends up being more of an impact, than if I just said it straight up looked like shit. It's the 2 guys that are determined to say it looks good, that continue to be the problem. Pinball is ment to be used and played. Not only are the visuals displeasing, but the functionality of it goes right out the window. When you have colored GI's, you really can't see shit when you play. Makes it very difficult.

    #188 1 year ago
    Quoted from PoMC:

    You really took time to crusade on Facebook?
    I agree that color bombing looks like trash. I was def guilty of it when I started with LEDs because it was fun. Took me to learn my own lessons that it might be fun to play around, but sure doesn't look good.
    That said, anyone can do anything to their game if they enjoy it - but beware when it comes time to sell or trade it. haha

    If I have the time, i'll put in my 2 cents on anything. I do the same thing in real life. Whenever people do this to games, and they ask me what I think. I straight up tell them, it looks like shit. We both laugh and I have the worst game of my life on it, because i can't see shit.

    #198 1 year ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    If I ever hear anyone describe an LED job they dont' like as "Rainbow Puke" or "Clown Puke" I'll definitely kick someone in the nuts. It's just like one of the many mindless sayings on Pinside..."Epic, Deep Rules, World Under Glass"...Phulease, get some new material.

    how about we just describe it as straight up stupidity then. Because if you put colored bulbs in the GI's....that's exactly what it is. You ruined the art package of the game. You have now made the game visually unplayable, unless your game is setup in the backyard in the middle of a sunny afternoon. And the only one that can compliment you on the looks if your color spaz, is Stevie Wonder.

    #202 1 year ago

    indeed. But the ones who insist on making their games look like shit, say it's an opinion. It's not...not at all. There is right...and there is wrong. There really isn't a middle.

    #207 1 year ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    When you pay for my game daddy then you can tell me how to light it...deal?

    if you're going to light it like you say you do, it better be discounted, since I have to fix all the shit you messed up.

    #210 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mitch:

    Why the fuck are you still in this thread. You must really like to whine

    I think it's good that he is here. The more people that think this is a good idea and come to this thread, will eventually come to their senses and see the SCIENCE behind lighting a good looking game and one that is not.

    #218 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinstein:

    I dont know if anyone noticed but the entire industry has shifted to LED's because they're better in every way. Thats real science.

    you are not getting it. It's not about the LED itself. I use LED's in almost every game. It's when you use color for any kind of general illumination, both on the field or the backbox, you have ruined the looks and playability of your game.

    Comets 2 SMB's frosted sunlights are perfect for GI's. They illuminate and distribute light perfectly, and bring out the colors in a very natural look. If 2smb is too bright for your liking, go with 1smb.

    #230 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mitch:

    If you start a " I love color gi club" thread I wouldn't go into it and start bitching.

    I would

    #239 1 year ago

    the problem is, that when you do parts here or there. There is art in that surrounding area that you are desecrating. It's not like the LED does a spot light to only a specific area so it doesn't bleed into surrounding art. The surrounding art is the reason the colored LED's look like shit. Colored LED's should be used for inserts of the same color with ONLY black text on them. That's it. That's all you can get away with, without it destroying some artistic aspect of your game. For games with full blown printed inserts, like Diner or IJ. You have to go back to white again for the inserts as well. You can get away with using red for the inserts that have only black and red, but most of them are orange, yellow and red with hints of brown. With those. Warm White is your only viable option.

    10
    #240 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinstein:

    There's no adult conversation going on here. Just a lot of sanctimony laughing at peoples pins behind their backs. Probably why your being trolled.

    who's laughing behind anyone's back? I straight up tell all you guys your games look like shit.

    #263 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinstein:

    Yes you do wear your opinion on your sleeve like a red band. Trying to stop the creation of future LED users does seem like the final solution. I think Ive even read a call to violence on this thread.

    i'm not trying to stop LED's at all. Just trying to stop the people from using them incorrectly. I think i've put the LED tutorial thread off long enough. I really need to write this out fully, and post it. Similar to Vid's guides to playfield restoration and cabinet restoration. From the looks of Facebook, it has become a much needed thing, as shit is getting out of control over there. Too many over there, are [removed, vulgar] on their games.

    #283 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Jeezus, you're kidding, right? You know that writing a guide like this is like me writing a guide on why you should listen to the music I listen to? I'm going to tell you which bands are musically more talented and you can't like Mushroomhead or Pantera because I think they're vile crap that can't be enjoyable. You're going to tell people they can't like Jackson Pollock art because there is a proper way to apply paint to a canvas. You're totally wasting your time.
    BTW, You also changed the red emergency dive lighting on Bally Atlantis to blue. That's not what dive lights look like in a submarine, and not what the designer had in mind.

    the music you listen to is not a science. The way light reflects off color is.

    #284 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dee-Bow:

    do you think you have earned the same respect from this community that Vid has!? Im not sure anyone considers you more knowledgeable than themselves to determine what color of bulbs to use. Vid has experience and wisdom and is able to discuss differences like an adult. You seemed to have formed a stubborn opinion. Not sure it's the same thing.

    actually, yes and I could have wrote the playfield restoration thread as well. Vid took the time to actually do it, but I do offer assistance in it from time to time. And the LED thread will be informative and not pointing fingers. Just showing the difference on how the light reacts to other colors and effects around backglasses and playfields and showing people why somethings compliment your game, and others take away from the aesthetics. Anyone that does art for a living, knows how crucial this is.

    #294 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Well, you have to consider the broad base of your audience. I mentioned before that most of the younger folk are into blinging everything, not just pinball machines. They've got LEDs on gaming controllers, shoes, and ground effects on cars and motorcycles. This LED bling is everywhere. They are not looking at pinball art as you and I might want to view it - as a work of art. A large portion of this audience is not going to view bright, outlandish, or even incorrect color choices as a negative. They will LOVE it, wrong as it may look, and and they just won't care - regardless if you write a guide, a book, or tell it to their faces.

    and look how shitty that marquee shows. That is a prime example on why certain lights can only be used to illuminate artwork. The rest is fine as it's not illuminating anything that involves art.

    #299 1 year ago
    Quoted from dirkdiggler:

    So I just removed all the color gi on contact and thought I'd try out incandescents and comet 2 smd frosted whites. Lights on and lights off

    Looks great. Picture 2 looks the best out of all of them.

    #316 1 year ago
    Quoted from lpeters82:

    I think this collage might help to show the different versions of using color in a backglass.
    1) Color Wash
    2) Nothing
    3) Few Color LEDs

    PS: I don't mind the color wash here as much as on a game where they have a section of green, a section of red, a section of purple, etc. Here you could at least make a case that it's going for a new art style. It reminds me of the game like Mad World, where there is a conscious choice to only work with a few colors.

    this is one of the rare cases you can get away with a color bulb in art. Mostly because the art is one color, and it's on black. I'm referring to the clouds in the background. Looks like the bulbs were kept far enough away from the surrounding art, so they did not bleed into the other artwork. Which is critical. and 99.7% of the time, you cannot get away with it. This is the .3% time you can get away with a little.

    BTW, i'm talking about example 3. Example 1 is horrible and the person that did it should be flogged. Example 2 looks great, and example 3 looks good as well.

    #338 1 year ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    I just finished replacing about 70 of the GI and back box illumination LEDs with incandescents...and took out the color dmd and coin door....

    Heres a before pic...

    that game looks wayyy better. Now that's a game that will sell.

    #364 1 year ago
    Quoted from Duvall:

    I hate to cast stones because I’ve made some dubious choices in the past too but these Dr Who examples - wow.
    (VS what it *should* look like)

    This is the main purpose of threads like this. For people to learn. You learned. You listened. You advanced. Congrats on learning the errors of your ways. and joining those who are not visually impaired.

    #375 1 year ago
    Quoted from stoptap:

    You no like ?
    It’s a lot more subtle effect to the eye. Phone cameras always exaggerate the colours of LEDs.

    I agree, it looked good as factory. Other 2 are terrible.

    #402 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Crusade all you want, only other pinball hobbyists will get it. I have a friend who is a casual player, his eyes light up and he begins drooling when he sees this stuff. I've brought games into my place and he's all shocked when I tell him I am not going to LED the game. It's a disease, and those suffering are drawn to the bright and gaudy games like zombies.

    Yup, into the light......zaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap

    into the light (resized).jpg

    #414 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    That's stock lighting? Why is it so purple?
    I'm used to this

    this is how it suppose to look. That other one looks horrible on the backglass and the back half of the playfield.

    #415 1 year ago

    So those of you who's games end up on this thread, is it an honor to be on the hall of shame?

    #425 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dee-Bow:

    Did i make tbe wall?! I didnt get no comments on my METpro

    It looks like shit. There you go.

    Now if was a game like Spanish Eyes, we might have gave you a little leeway because the game is ugly as all shit anyway. But MET has fantastic art, and you just colorshit all over it. Shame on you.

    #437 1 year ago

    yeah, it's so boring when you can see the ball when you play.

    -3
    #447 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jakers:

    I had to do some LED adjusting on my most recent pickup. Absolutely loving the look of it now.

    still looks like you failed. White only in GI's. You still can't see shit.

    #454 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jakers:

    I only know you by your online presence from Pinside and Facebook, but from what I can tell, you are a very sad and bored human being. Are you ever happy?

    actually, everyone that has met me in real life knows i'm always happy. In a good mood and always joking around.

    #456 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dee-Bow:

    I agree with Jakers...you come off as a grouchy old single man who had been divorced for a long time. There is more to life than telling people on pinside how stupid and dumb they are because they have different tastes then u! Its JUST pinball, dude. (To some of us anywisss)

    Lighting is not about taste. It's a specific science. There is a right way and a wrong way. no in between. It's kind of like putting fluids in your car. Antifreeze goes in the radiator. It's not personal preference. It's the way it has to be done.

    Btw, i've never been divorced and life is always good. I just have little tolerance for stupidity. If you drive in the left lane on a 2 lane hwy and nobody is in front of you, and someone is in back of you, and you don't move the fuck over. I have little tolerance for you.

    #475 1 year ago

    I love the alt translite. The game isn't horrible. I'd take flintstones over shit tales all day long.

    #482 1 year ago

    nobody can see shit. Their eyes glaze over because of the xmas tree effect, and playability comes second.

    #498 1 year ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Says the guy who traded a mint JM for JP........nuff said.

    JP blows JM out of the water. JP is a great game.

    #509 1 year ago
    Quoted from freakandgeek:

    So what is the cause of this? I honestly have been curious about this for awhile.
    Do that many people have such bad taste? Do they have vision problems?
    Or is this a case of copycat behavior or a kind of mass hysteria?

    some has to do with not reallying understanding the use of light and the effects of illumination. From afar (VERY VERY FAR) away, the game has pop and looks like a xmas tree. if that's all you are doing with your games, it looks appealing. If you actually plan on playing your games or getting within 2 feet of them, then you realize how shitty it actually looks. Problem is, many newbs eyes glaze over from the xmas tree effect, and can't see shit beyond that. So in their mind, they think it looks good because of that distant first glance appearance.

    shit LEDs (resized).jpg

    #519 1 year ago

    why destroy such great artwork. Who the hell could look at that and say to themselves......"Damn, I did a great job". Apparently, they never actually play their games. I'd sell it too, if mine looked like that.

    #522 1 year ago

    the difference is, there is no artwork on either of those. You are not destoying anything. if the bike had art, you couldn't see it at night anyway.

    The big difference between things like a house or car, is that you have this work of art that you are illuminating. And you have a functionality that you need to have as well. If the field is not properly lit, you can't see shit. If you can't see shit, you can't play or it puts massive strain on your eyes. So you are ruining the sole purpose of the machine. That's the big difference.

    Like I said before. If you have your games to just look at from a distance. The xmas tree effect wont' effect you much. Blinky pretty lights that illuminate your gameroom. As long as you don't look at them closely or want to play them.

    #525 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dee-Bow:

    You claim it's a "science"... yet you have posted ZERO scientific proof (not even one pie chart!) on how different spectrums affect the eyes and how they(eyes) perceive/receive different colors! So far it's just a stubborn old man's opinion! Agreed on by other old men!

    it's going to be a huge write up. I'm already working on it. I have to get it all written out ahead of time and add the pictures where I want them before I post it.

    #540 1 year ago
    Quoted from Frippertron:

    It's not science of "art", it color and lighting theory, which is what art schools teach as fact! My background is in lighting design for theatrical productions, bands, plays, etc. I had many classes on this subject. I posted a good book earlier in the thread, when I get home I'll recommend more. I went to school with some cinematographers and you should see how far down the rabbit hole these guys go studying nothing but light and color. They are highly trained.

    exactly right. When you are lighting something, you have 2 purposes in pinball. Looks and practicality. You need both. Since pinball uses many different colors in it's art selection, 99% of the time, you only have white light to pick from. Since you have to be able to see the ball. Again, you need strong light distribution. Which white light travels farther than any other light in the spectrum. The article will show you side by side comparisons on what to do and what not to do and show you exactly why it works and why it doesn't work. Many are just misinformed, or buy those god awful kits, by some fucktard who has no business making LED kits. This article isn't going to pass judgement on anyone. It's going to be a scientific outlook on how light effects things in pinball. So those that really didn't understand it, now able to know what works and what doesn't. Similar to the playfield and cabinet restoration threads.

    #559 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rascal_H:

    Actually don’t mind these amber led in TWD. I’m getting a TWD next week so I’ve been watching a bunch of videos. Was thinking there was too much cool white everywhere. Almost want to switch to incandescent.

    switch to Warm white then, it's a happy medium between the 2. I think you will be happy with the results. Especially with the brown pallet used on the game. the warm should have been used instead of cool.

    #575 1 year ago
    Quoted from irobot:

    You know what would be a good product?
    If someone with artistic ability put together LED light sets that slightly enhanced the look of the original game.
    The way to figure it out would be to start out by replacing all the incandescent bulbs with a warm white frosted bulb with identical brightness.
    Then you would artfully swap out certain bulbs for cool white to enhance certain blues and greens.
    Then you would swap out certain bulbs with slightly brighter bulbs to enhance dark areas as needed.
    Then you would swap out certain insert bulbs with colored bulbs to enhance tired inserts.
    At that point, you'd have a mix of LED bulbs that made the game look newer and better. Use the technology to artfully rejuvenate and improve the game.
    Instead of making the game look like a nightmare you had after you ate sardines, chocolate ice cream, a taco bell burrito supreme, and a bottle of chambord.

    I tell my friends when they put colored bulbs in the GI's that it looks like ass too. You will never better yourself, by having a bunch of "YES" men around you, telling you what they think you want to hear. It's like the emperors new clothes. If everyone around you tells you nothings wrong. How will you ever know. You need that one TRUE friend that will say to you....."hey asshole, you're naked".

    #597 1 year ago
    Quoted from irobot:

    I was looking at the Mona Lisa this morning and I thought, "Why only clown puke on pinball machines? Let's make Mona Lisa really POP."
    I picked bright green for her hands, they pop now.
    I used pink for the GI illumination to make it really pop.
    Art is about making stuff POP.
    Unfortunately, I cannot make your monitor bright enough to hurt your eyes. You'll have to adjust the brightness up to 100% and then sit in a dark room until your pupils open up fully. Then turn the monitor on so the light really hurts your eyes. Then the colors will really pop.

    it's funny, i've used this exact same comparison to explain things to people before.

    #599 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    It's not only pinball machines. How about the art on this bus? The difference is this photo is not altered.

    that's artwork? I thought it was a dirty steel roof.

    #629 1 year ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    All the complaining about the rainbow puke but what everyone fails to mention is at least half if not more then half are kits sold by the major LED suppliers. All of them sell these kits. You want to help stop this then complain to them. They need to make kits that are color matched inserts and white GI's. A lot of the noobs would rather just order the kit then take the time to figure out what they need.

    whoever made that kit is a dumbasshole and should not be allowed to make things for pinball ever again. Not only are the making unsuspecting pin owners, make their games look like total ass, but they are charging money to make it happen? Unbelievable. They should get double their money back for each of those shitstorm kits that have been sold. For the work involved having to take them back out, plus the mental ridicule they had to endure from their peers.

    If you had anything to do with assembling those kits, you should be asshamed of yourself. (yes I know what it says)

    #647 1 year ago

    doing colored LED's in inserts that have white or clear inserts isn't that big of a deal. Inserts really don't ruin artwork unless they are full color artwork inserts, like IJ has. but there isn't an overall destruction of artwork when you colorize inserts. That's the one spot colored LED's are suppose to go.

    #650 1 year ago

    but if someone customizes white inserts. It's not the end of the world. Like on my atlantis. there are a ton of white inserts. So I color matched things to help players identify things. Like all the number 1's are in red, and lock 1 is in red. So people know you have to hit all the 1's to light lock 1. all number 2 standups are green and lock 2 is green. And so on. Otherwise there was just too much white and made it harder for people to understand the layout and what's going on. Personally, I think williams was just using up all the white inserts bally had on hand so they could start fresh.

    #653 1 year ago

    colored LED's in inserts were never an issue, as long as the text on those inserts is printed in black or white. if they are colored printed inserts on white, then you have to use white. otherwise the insert art will suffer the same fate as these sorry ass games we have seen in this thread.

    #667 1 year ago
    Quoted from pookycade:

    I’m gonna get hammered for saying this but here goes:
    1) Due to cameras limited exposure range photos always overblow the magnitude of these effects. It’s often not that bad in real life with your own eye.
    2) With standard incandescent bulbs my older Bally/Williams look old/tired next to Stern machines.
    3) I take a measured approach to this: a) only warm whites in EMs b) mostly warm whites in pre DMD solid states with maybe a color accent in the back c) solid single color approach on some machines where warranted if I think it looks good- black hole for instance d) Comet white spots in older DMD which is what I think gives the Sterns a lot of their pop anyway.
    4) I really see nothing wrong with color accents, but yes the paint by numbers color matching for each plastic and each insert shows a certain lack of aesthetic

    yes the picture makes these look worse, but we have all seen this kind of work in real life and we all know it still looks like shit. i've seen it in peoples collections, i've seen them at shows. They always look just as shitty as the pics. Maybe in a different way, but it's still ass either way.

    #668 1 year ago
    Quoted from vwallat99:

    4 on the bottom and the 4 in the queens chamber? I'm pretty bold especially considering there is red in the red in lanes anyway.

    red is a horrible color to try and see in. Putting red where you need to see the ball the most is always a bad idea. Reds and blues are the worst. yellow you could get away with as it's only about triple the yellow of a warm white. Anything else is just too difficult to see due to the spectrum pallet.

    #677 1 year ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    What do you guys think of lighting the trough, or mixing warm and cold? I did it in both these machines. I felt they were both a little dark. On JP I did warm under the orange and cool under blue. On Phantom I did warm on the lower part of the playfield because it's an indoor candle lit scene. I used a couple cool up top near the gargoyles to make it feel moon lit and haunted up there. Both games are very flashy and I really find lighting the trough on a constant circuit helps. It's not rainbow but my games have lots of additional lighting.

    both look good. POTO is a dark game and needs a boost. The artwork is some of the best out there, so to use anything but white would be horrible. I think they show very well.

    #686 1 year ago
    Quoted from Boof-Ed:

    I guess the key is learning from your mistakes. This was my second pinball and my first attempt at LEDs 5 years ago. Then a different pin I restored a month ago. I'm still learning.

    awesome work. Look at the difference between one and the other. One you can actually see the playfield and ball. the other you can't see shit. This is a textbook example on why colored LED's should not be used. It's awesome that you have learned and bettered yourself. Kudos to you.

    #693 1 year ago

    if one person realizes the error of their ways form this thread, it's all worth it. Saving one game at a time.

    #710 1 year ago

    brightness isn't a problem as much as the choice to put color where white needs to be. Some of the new sterns are too bright and could be toned down a bit. You think with this big bad board system they just think is the cats ass, you could adjust the brightness in the settings. Just another failure on the spike list.

    #720 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    We've talked aboot this many times and you have people from your angle, and then people like me saying I grew up in arcades playing and never played in the dark once. Always wondered if that factors into it as we grow up.

    .

    My arcade growing up was in the basement section of a strip mall. Not a window to be had anywhere. No lights except over the pool tables. Only light we had was from the game marquees and attract modes. Man those were the days. There are some games that are a nightmare to play in pitch black. LIke DE with their flashing GI's they like to do on most titles.

    #725 1 year ago
    Quoted from matt_adams:

    On sale in the UK with LED "upgrade" ahhhhh my eyes!

    that is straight up fawking awful. How the hell can anyone think that is even remotely good. I have indy500 and it's nice and bright, and looks great everywhere. You can't see shit on this thing. Makes this game look like a piece O'shit.

    stevie loves colored LEDs (resized).jpg

    #728 1 year ago

    two good games in a row, drastically violated without lube.

    #737 1 year ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    I have been following this Thread and agree many of the examples look blown out.
    Some of them look great (that received scrutiny). I see what everybody is trying to say, blown out neighborhoods of the same color led look disco.
    To someone they looked rad and worth doing. Don't take the happiness away, OK?.

    the sad part of this thread, is that many of these games are FS games on facebook. Selling a game is like selling a house. You may think painting a bathroom fuchsia looks great. Here's the problem. You might think your sickly looking bathroom is awesome. That's fine. But when it comes time to sell the house. You better be prepared to either paint it, or lower the cost of the house. Because it doesn't show well anymore. If you don't stick with the white or neutral paint pallet, you are restricting your buyers market, to you, and the one other person in the world that might think it looks good too. Same is for color LED's in the GI's. You and Stevie Wonder might think this color shitfest looks good. But your buyer market is drastically reduced. So either change them to warm white, or lower your price where someone can't say no. Choice is up to you.

    #755 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Well, the buyer market for people with good taste may be reduced, but there is still a market for the folks that like colorbombed GI. Personally, I dabbled in it a little but those games are now gone - sucessfully sold or traded I might add.
    Of course, we can't really be certain if some of the buyers of these games didn't rip the colors out right after they bought the games, but these pins are getting marketed to folks who like that stuff. My personal example is I sold my Pinbot with color GI. I certainly wouldn't reduce the price if you came to me and said I needed to because it had color LEDs. If I say the games worth X - it's worth that and what I will take for it...whether it has color LEDs, white LEDs, incandescent bulbs...or even no bulbs just empty sockets.
    Recently sold on EBay:

    the ones who know better, greatly outweigh the ones that don't. Usually the newbs are the ones that think this shit looks good. Those of us that been around know better. The learning curve on LED lighting takes awhile sometimes, but eventually you learn. The ones who will never learn are the ones that surround themselves with people refuse to tell them it looks terrible.

    #797 1 year ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Personally, I love LED color changing speaker kits.

    I like the speaker kits too, as long as you use the glare guards to block the glare. But the speaker kits are not illuminating any art. You can get away with any color there, due to no art being illuminated.

    as for the two pictures above this. Too much blue. Needs to go and hurts my eyes even looking at the pictures. But I do like your little green mod on the butthole of the death star. Everything else is too much, too bright, and too much color in the back sections.

    #808 1 year ago
    Quoted from ajfclark:

    What about a game that ships with it? eg. Space Station's green GI during multiball?

    for games that has a mode that does it, it's fine for effect, but you don't have to put up with it for the entire game. or in attract mode.

    #820 1 year ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    Price Police. LED Nazis. Everybody wants to be an expert and dictate the way they think things should be. Shaming, pulling the " BS Authority Card" , crowd piling of like minded sycophants.
    To those who illuminate their games they way they see fit, more power to you.

    you will never better yourself without constructive criticism.

    and this involves more than just ones opinion. Just like dealing with sound, there is a science behind lighting and doing it the right way. Sound is the exact same thing. Sure you can setup your sound system however you want, but if you don't understand the science behind it. You will probably fail. So when you have experts come in and point you in the direction on how you can get the most out of it. Should probably listen to them.

    #833 1 year ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    Total blasphemy!!! Everyone knows trees and Christmas deco should only be done in warm white. Look how completely washed out that snow is!!!

    if there was nice artwork drawn and painted on those trees. Absolutely someone would have their head stuck wayyyyy up their ass. But they don't. Keep the colored LED's on the xmas trees and out of your GI's.

    #839 1 year ago

    i'm not a fan of toppers either. Personally I think most are a waste of money. But there are a few that are really nice, and some that are ugly as all shit. I even have a topper on one of my games I think is a piece of shit, but it came with the game so I leave it on there.

    I also think that every game should NOT have a shaker in it. There are very very very FEW games that a shaker fits the theme and used well. But they are a risk because they shake out all your screws and run the risk of shorting shit out. ES use is great. JP's is great. RS is ok. That's all that should have a shaker.

    #848 1 year ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    I got a free package of LEDs the very first day Pinball Life got them in stock. That was 8 years ago. Not saying they weren't around 10 years ago, but they just hadn't been sold by the parts suppliers until late 2009 or early 2010. Granted, that's pretty close to 10 years ago though...definitely longer than 'a new thing on the pinball scene' for sure.

    yes, the old school LEDs were pretty terrible. horrible light distribution. It was around 5 years ago when things started to really brighten up. But it seems to be only the last 6 months, FB sellers lost their ability to see.

    #860 1 year ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    Still waiting for the "Experts". Plus, you are not telling me anything, I use incandescent bulbs (except in one case). I just need to know who put you and these other Experts in charge. I agree with you, it looks terrible. I also didn't like Andy Warhol Art that sells for millions. Yoko Ono either. There are experts that say it is great,and valuable.
    This trend is a young versus old thing. You want to know who the Experts are? OEM.

    Anyone that does art for a living is pretty much an expert when it comes to color and light distribution. Especially people who are masters at color matching. Which is a science and an artform all it's own. Just like a sound engineer that does concerts, is considered an expert in sound dynamics. Since i do this for a living, and others here who have a background in theatrical lighting would be considered experts in this field. Even if you dont' like andy warhol or Yokos art....the fact still remains, that their art pieces are illuminated with................wait for it.........................WHITE light!!......Holy shit, who would have guessed that paintings are displayed with white warm lights.

    And I was all for incadescents for the longest time. LED technology was not to the point of good light distribution until about 5 years ago. Once the warm whites and cool whites had just as good if not better light distribution than incadescents, I finally moved to LED. But there are very few brands that i'm satisfied with for use in GI's and backboxes.

    #878 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    I'm going to have to disagree with this statement, as I don't feel theatrical lighting experts are experts in lighting a pinball machine. They use a LOT of color in most stage productions.
    This stage really pops!

    yes, theatrical is a different animal. they use colors in different ways to change the mood of a scene. Depending on the scene and effect they are going for, they usually are not trying to illuminate the props detail. In your example, there really isn't any artistic props around. They are trying to use color to highlight the actors, and take away from the fact that there isn't much background to play on. It's a different kind of science behind it, but still a science.
    Where painting artists use color and light to display and the paint sets the tone and mood. the ink/paint does the talking, and shows best with warm or cool light, depending on the color composition used.

    And yes......JAR......an artist could make a painting or drawing for an art show that creates it with the intent to be displayed with a certain kind of light. But if he is doing that for effect, he is going to be very particular on what color pallet he uses, knowing how it's going to be displayed. It's like, if you are making a painting for black light, you are going to use black light ink.

    #880 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dee-Bow:

    bwahahaha.. that might be the dumbest thing I read on pinside! I use wobble lights, trouble lights and l.e.d. work lights when i drywall.. does that make me an expert in ALL lighting applications too?!? Shweeet

    your example is flawed. If you are hanging drywall, your expertise is in hanging drywall. Not lighting the room. Just like I use a compressor everyday for spraying clearcoat. Doesn't mean i'm an expert in repairing my compressor.

    #892 1 year ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    Nah, let's make this a little more understandable easier to relate to, because the purpers are having a hard time understanding. Colored bulbs in GI are:
    - Socks with sandals
    - Fanny packs
    - Man buns
    - Tucked in hoodies
    - Popped collars
    - Muffler whistles
    - Baby blue leisure suits
    - Singing bass
    - Beer guzzler hats
    - Leopard print pants
    - Checking your Twitter feed during a movie in the theater
    - Crocs
    - Truck nutz

    as I was reading this list, the truck nuts popped into my head and I was going to add it to your list...but low and behold, there it already is.

    #893 1 year ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    There is no science behind it. It's just a plank of wood with a steel ball. Shine enough light and mole could see that ball. The rest is just preference and hot air.

    lighting is a science. Just like doing sound at a concert. I suppose you think that's not a science either.

    #908 1 year ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    There is no way that's an actual untouched photo. The photo has been saturated and darkened. Actually quite a few of the pics in this thread have been manipulated to look even sillier. That F-14 translite is another one. Are they bad, heck yeah but they are not super saturated like the photos claim they are.

    you act like we have never had to deal with this stuff in real life. Most of us have had to try and play in games that look like that. We have been there. We know how it is and how difficult it is to play in a real setting. Pictures enhance the color glow range a lot, but we all can picture how awful it would be to have to play these games.

    #934 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Legs are really bad....oh and they're based on the "leg protectors" that actually damage your csb

    that is true. Those plastic pieces of shit which claim to be "protectors". actually dig into your cabinet beyond the leg area, which makes the damage even worse, because it cannot be covered up by the leg anymore. They dig in just like legs do. If you give a crap about your cabinet at all, you will not put those plastic pieces of shit on your game.

    If you want to save your game. Use the metal stern style that go under the leg and raise it beyond the surface so it can't dig in. Pinball life has those. I put them on every game I have that I give a shit about the cabinet on.

    #963 1 year ago

    I am personally hurt at color shitfest games.......................hurts my eyes. As an artist, I do not like seeing artwork desecrated by pisspoor lighting. Also amazes me, how people do this on games they are trying to sell, and do not understand why their game isn't selling when it looks like that. Some people are unteachable. Never learn. If the game doesn't "Show" well, it's not going to sell. Again. It's like selling a house. If you paint it with anything but white bland neutral earth tones. Your buyers market drops about 70%-80%.

    #964 1 year ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Thanks wayout, I'm honored that you put me personally in the topic.

    Actually they don't come in full pressure contact with the cabinet decals or paint and buyers who have games with the Stern type standoffs put them on OVER those so my mod doesn't even come close to making contact. But blast away if you want, it's actually good for business.

    yes, if you put them over the metal inner style, they will not effect the cabinet. Most people do not do those unless stern did it at the factory.

    #971 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinstein:

    You are not an artist, or you would not be trying to stifle other peoples attempts at being creative with their games.

    untrue. Every artist on here is appalled at the way these people desecrate another artists works of art.

    #976 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinstein:

    Im appalled that you feel you can speak for every artist on here. Once someone owns a game its theirs to do with as they please. There is not some ethical lighting standard that their purchase contracts them to adhere to. If they had somehow found the original archived artwork and illegally defaced it well that would be appalling but making easily reversible lighting choices is far from desecrating. Personally I think the Mona Lisa would look better with a pencil mustache.

    LIke I said before. do what you want with your own games. but if you are trying to sell it. You HAVE to do what looks the best and presentable. Which is only white in GI's. If you insist thinking your shitfest is great. Then dont' sit there and wonder why your game hasn't sold already. or be very prepared to knock it down to basement pricing, to where someone will say ok...now it's worth buying, and having to go in and fix all this crap.

    #984 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinstein:

    I have never seen an LED job affect the price of a game whether up or down. If someone is selling a game and they spent time and money on LED's they usually make sure to mention that as a feature in the listing though. If someone tried to talk me below market value on a game because of my LED job I would politely show them the door.

    then you havn't been watching very closely.

    #986 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Hey you haven't seen his home; maybe it's a complete shithole?

    lol.

    #1057 1 year ago
    Quoted from PoMC:

    You honestly don't care about the blue rings of glare on the glass?

    glare guards get rid of those.

    #1179 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinstein:

    If you feel your games need to be factory then your a member of the status quo and either just lack creativity or are too afraid your efforts would equal and epic fail. I dont want my blackout to look like every other blackout. I want it to look like MY blackout. If you think Ive insulted the playfield art then your the one thats overly sensitive. Viva la LED's!

    that is truly awful. Thank you for getting everyone back on track.

    #1191 1 year ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    So if, for example, there is a thread where a picture of a disaster of a TFTC was posted. Can we repost it here? It is not from their profile, they put the picture out there for comment. I think it is nicer commenting over here rather then giving an honest opinion over there. Over there everyone if clapping their hands in a mindless group think and not pointing out the obvious loss of artwork.
    I know we are supposed to "be nice" but sometimes being nice means being honest and letting them know when they have made something ugly. Over there I would be a broken record saying "but that is not how the game looks, I can't see the artwork anymore and the game looks harder to play". Over here we just have a bit more fun with it because people joined to defend the disasters.
    I'd post pictures of my games. But they look kind of "normal". Here, TZ with Cool White.

    what's wrong with the TZ? looks like it should.

    that MET is horrible.

    #1197 1 year ago

    pop caps are wrong, but at least it's not ruining any art anywhere and you can see well on the game.

    #1200 1 year ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    This is what every single game should look like.
    And yes, this was one of mine. I don't believe in cool or color LED's in EM's.

    agreed. that looks fantastic. Warm or sunlight LED's in EM's look great.

    #1203 1 year ago

    did you try the 1 or 2 SMB frosted warm/sunlight LED's? They are very natural looking, with great light distribution. I use them in my EM's and early SS.

    #1209 1 year ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    Ok so what's the difference between the warm and sunlight? Sorry to say but I hate the yellowish look of the warms. Don't care if it's an EM or not. But don't think the cools look good on some pins either. Whats the closest led to a natural white. No blue or yellow tint.

    I don't know. I thought it was just different names by different companies. Comets had the best in my opinion.

    #1218 1 year ago

    I have blacklight LED's. Only time I found a reason to use them was for the inside of my path of the dead figures, to illuminate them since they are black light sensitive. Put them inside to give them a nice glow.

    #1235 1 year ago
    Quoted from matt_adams:

    I have used a blacklight led strip across the back of my W?D and went over the windows with a yellow highlighter pen. No one ever notices the cityscape normally.

    looks like some of that art is black light sensitive. Is it? I never knew that about W?D. there would be a good use of the blacklight LED's if it is. I know VND has black light ink on it that can use the blacklight LED's as well. But again. If you go overboard, you won't be able to see shit when playing. Which should always be priority first.

    #1236 1 year ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    Fixed that for you. Let me know if you want the kit, I'll sell you one for only $169.99.

    affirmative number 2.

    #1245 1 year ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    No matter the bulb choices, a game is playable. The ball still rolls on the playfield, and you don't have to play in the dark. They should kill the LEDs in the backbox on that HS though, creates too much of a reflection on the PF glass.

    this is why I pull all but 6 or 7 bulbs on every game I own in every backbox. Still lights up just fine, but reduces the brightness by 80%. Works great and nobody ever knows that 75% of the bulbs are gone.

    -1
    #1248 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dee-Bow:

    75% of the bulbs removed reduces the brightness by 80%?!? Are you getting fancy with that science talk again! Haha, ahh pinside!

    actually it depends on the printing on the translite. Games like JP that have a lot of whites and yellows in them are greatly reduced, where darker translites, have less of a difference. So it actually has a range of more like 60-85%. Because say you have a spot like the sun on a JP translite. If you take out the bulbs around that area, reduces the reflective glare almost twice as much as bulbs behind the darker jungle parts of the translite.

    #1255 1 year ago

    so basically, it comes down to, if you color puke your games, you have the mentality of a child, since they are attracted to colorized bling. That sounds about right.

    #1262 1 year ago

    I think if people were more up front with each other in the first place, we wouldn't have the colorshitfest so out of control at this point like we do. If someone does something that looks good. Compliment them, but on the same token, if it looks horrible. Tell them that as well. In real life and the internet. When people are hesitant to really tell it like it is, is when things spiral out of control because people doing it, don't realize it. Then others see that guy get complimented, think that they are suppose to think it looks good and follows suit. Now the lemming mentality takes off and now there is a whole bunch of games that look like shit.

    #1305 1 year ago
    Quoted from statictrance:

    From a 'hey it's clown puke but doesn't make any damn sense' perspective... Here's a swords of fury I picked up a few months back at a deep discount. All Backbox GI was changed to purple. The camera doesn't do it justice, but it looked ridiculous. They also used all regular LEDs in the inserts. fun times.
    Long story - but sadly this is directly from a famous (infamous?) local pinball repair shop like this. On top of the LED job, the drop targets started to go after a week of home play. Still a great deal for the price I got on it, but eesh.

    key words here are. DEEP DISCOUNT.

    This thread is to teach. to help people have a better understanding on making their games "show" better and help them sell their games quicker. Many of the games in this thread are FS threads on the FB forums. And they sit, and sit and sit. Threads like this, explain to them, it's their choices.

    #1317 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Man, I am going to have to get one of these to shine down on my playfield. Just to make it more challenging!

    so every game is a ST LE.

    #1324 1 year ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    This thread needs less arguing and more terrible pics.

    LOL. this is just downright hilarious. Someone had to do this on purpose as a joke, because there is no way someone did this and thought it was good.

    #1326 1 year ago

    well at $156, it's priced about what it needs to be when it looks this shitty.

    oh wait...that just for the LED's? I thought it was for the whole game. Whoever is selling this kit...if you know them, please give them a swift punch in the crotch. From each and every person they know in the pinball community. If you see him at a show. Please give a "take a bow" tap to the crotch as well.

    -1
    #1347 1 year ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    54, why what's your issue? It is a joke. Lighten up Francis.

    Francis, looks like you are going to have to spell it out for him.

    This thread is not about using LED's. It's about using colored LED's for GI's or backboxes. If they are not warm or cool white, they have no business being in a GI socket anywhere.

    francis (resized).jpg

    #1358 1 year ago
    Quoted from trk12fire:

    My honest opinion is the LEDs if done correctly can make the game look a lot more up to date and newer.

    This is true, and that is the point of this entire thread. It's not about LED's or no LED's. LED's are great.

    It's about doing them correctly....

    Which the ONLY correct answer is. Warm/sunlight white or cool white, in GI playfield and backbox sockets. Very very very rare cases, you can get away with one colored bulb in the perfect spot surrounded by that color with no art anywhere, or an area that's all black.

    I buy comets 2smb daylight/sunlight/warm Whites by the 100's. All colored bulbs I have are used for non color printed inserts only.

    #1366 1 year ago

    someone doesn't know how to adjust the contrast on their camera.

    #1368 1 year ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    To be fair, ugly rainbow clown puke LEDs would not deter me from buying a game. I certainly wouldn't pay any EXTRA for that garbage though.

    that's kind of the point. If a person knows they have to go in and spend time fixing that garbage. the person buying, it already has a discount price in mind, knowing the work they have to do.

    Whether or not you like it, when it comes to selling. Be prepared to do it the right way if you want maximum interest in your game.

    #1380 1 year ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    Not if it is a fluorescent tube

    You can get florescent tube in LED form. I like it because of less power consumption and hardly any heat. Plus it doesn't dry out your backglass ink, or dry out the plastic of your translites, which florescent light does. makes your translites brittle and your inks crack. Different people make LED version of the tubes. Some are really good at a soft light distribution which is evenly spread and you can't tell it's an LED tube. Some are terrible and have a hot spot line right through the area.

    #1382 1 year ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    Yes, but can you get a super bright color changer?

    get out of this thread right now. (points to the door)

    luke-noooo (resized).jpeg

    #1386 1 year ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    captainneo Can you tell me who makes the led tubes for stern games? would like to get one.

    Just look up 18" LED florescent tube replacement. You will find many options cheap. I suggest one that is frosted with 180 degree range of distribution.

    (i think it's 18", double check that tho)

    #1389 1 year ago
    Quoted from doompin:

    Most games with LEDs don’t photograph well. I bet a lot of these games don’t look so terrible in person.

    I've seen and had to play many that looked like this in real life. Tho, the camera does flare the color out more than it does in person. They are still impossible to see anything on and look terrible in person. When you shine color light on colors, it turns to mush. no way it can look good no matter what you do. Visibility is greatly reduced when using anything but white to illuminate something.

    #1402 1 year ago

    as long as you keep the lights on in the room, i'm sure it's playable.

    #1428 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Even I get confused sometimes.

    this is the first picture i've seen where rainbow looks good.

    #1439 1 year ago

    even with full room lighting, trying to wash out the shitshow. it still looks like complete ass. That's how bad those LED's are. You practically have the sun shining on there and still looks horrible.

    #1442 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    +1000
    guy had about 1/2 his lights on AND blacklights going. crazy. I told him all the cool kids play in the pure darkness.
    I told him I would buy it if he took off $600 for my LED extraction efforts.
    To be fair to him, I'm incredibly old and grouchy.

    $600 reduction in price is completely fair. Because you are going to have go and buy all white LED's to replace those. Probably 75-90 GI's in that game by the time your done including backbox. If you get 2smb's. I believe those are .80 each (give or take). Plus the time to have to take them all off, if the GI's are ground braid, then you have to pull all the ramps and everything. at least 8-14 hours worth of work, because if you have everything off, might as well clean it while you are at it.

    #1446 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    Exactly!!!
    Luckily rite aid now sells leds so shipping isn’t an issue.
    You’re a little off. T2 has 492 GI’s. I checked the black and white manual today.

    impossible. Even if you counted the lamp matrix there wouldn't be 492.

    #1451 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mitch:

    He's just trolling you.

    I figured he just didn't understand the lamp system in a machine, or didn't know how to read a manual. Which there is a 64% that could be true on both parts with this site.

    #1458 1 year ago

    AC/DC where? I couldn't see an AC/DC in any of those pics.

    #1489 1 year ago
    Quoted from irobot:

    Why would anyone complain about the above LED job?
    Some beautiful, soulful, creative person poured his heart and soul into the game.
    Hour after hour was spent selecting just the right blob of purple color.
    To criticize its day-glo purple magnificence is like saying, "Dear world: I am a hateful person who's jealous of the magnificent creativity of the good people!"
    I learned that in this thread.

    This says to me. I like the way my games look from across the room and I never have to play them. And if someone tries to play them. I get the last laugh...because good luck with that.

    #1505 1 year ago

    least they did the playfield like a normal person.

    #1515 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    Your obsessive triggering over light bulbs is simply funny. No scorn or hate in saying that. You make me (and others) giggle.
    I'd gladly say that to you in person. Why wouldn't I? Would you physically attack someone for saying that you bring a smile to the faces of many? Seems like misplaced hostility.
    The person throwing the most anonymous venom into the ether is staring back at you in the mirror.

    haunted house is hard enough to see with normal bulbs. Might as well unplug the GI's if you are going to use anything except white. Because the game being off will illuminate the playfield the same way as color light would.

    #1520 1 year ago

    doesn't mean the shit is selling. And most things don't sell for the price asked. A lot is talked down before the deal is closed.

    #1563 1 year ago
    Quoted from PoMC:

    Well, in all fairness to whoever puked that Spiderman up above....it does say GREEN Goblin, so the game was literally begging for green puke there.

    no it's not. there is more than one solid color of green in that area. There is plastic art, there is playfield art.

    #1567 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    Careful. Some of the commies here dont want you to make your own choices when it comes to private property.
    Youve been warned!
    (btw, that lower PF looks awful).

    that's not the point at all. It's just to make you aware how shitty stuff like this looks. When you think it looks good...it does not. It's a reality check thread. When you ask yourself questions like. Why isn't my game selling? answer could be. (colored LED's in the GI's). Why are people making sarcastic comments on my FS thread? Answer could be (colored LED's in the GI's). When people are playing and say they can't see shit on that game. (the answer probably is colored GI's). When someone says, dude...this game sucks you should sell it. It's probably because it has colored LED's in the GI's and looks and plays like shit.

    #1569 1 year ago

    when a game sits and sits and sits. Someone has to say something on why it's probably not selling. better for the seller and everyone. He's not happy his game is not selling and probably doesn't know why. So either has to change it and have the game show better, or lower the price to where someone doesn't care they have to do a bunch of work to it when they get home.

    #1571 1 year ago

    restoring playfields makes me money. If i'm paying going rate for a game, I don't want to spend 4 or 5 hours changing bulbs over. It does take work. I have games I have yet to take apart to change things over after I got them. Because I don't have the time to do it. Now if i'm getting the game dirt cheap. I don't care. I'll get to it eventually, but that time lost is time I could be working on stuff and making money, which always has priority over my "free" time.

    #1573 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    To YOU.
    If someone wants their game to be completely blue, have at it. Its their property.
    We can point and laugh in good fun but there are some here who think they are going to change peoples personal taste...And that, is pure awesomeness to witness.

    to the science, on how light reflects off of printed color and translucent color. How your retina, and how that image is portrayed. How it visually is picked up by the human eye. And all the art elements lost when using a single color vs white spectrum (which has all the colors)

    #1575 1 year ago

    GI's for me consist of a big pile of sunlight comet 2smbs. Then start taking the game apart and replacing everything.

    Color bulbs are only used under black or white printed inserts. Other than that, they never get used.

    #1608 1 year ago
    Quoted from Dee-Bow:

    science you have yet to back up with ANY written article documenting these studies on light reflection or retina reaction.. still waiting for PROOF ..not opinions

    i'm not going to give you a tutorial on how humans see light and colors. Take biology. But I will show you how mono colors bleaches out other colors of the spectrum. If you ever developed film in a dark room, you would know this as well.

    #1616 1 year ago

    I can tell you which one i'd be more apt to buy and which one i'd be having them knock several $100 off of.

    #1618 1 year ago

    the problem is, we don't know what things actually sell for. Very rarely have I ever sold anything at my asking price.

    #1630 1 year ago
    Quoted from ChrisS:

    NEO hates coming to my house. He always blames his playing ability on the colored GI and that things are 2 dark.....

    only on the system 11's.

    #1714 1 year ago
    Quoted from PoMC:

    I made another DIY "Pinstadium" kit for Baywatch tonight. I just needed white LED lighting to evenly illuminate the playfield. So these lights do not flash with the GI, they are simply lighting the PF so you can see the artwork and track the ball. Same kit I made for Big Hurt, which like Baywatch is sorely lacking in lighting.
    I had to hardwire 12v for Big Hurt since there wasn't a service outlet. But this kit I want to be able to move to any other game by powering it from the service outlet. I have lots of spare power supplies saved and fished out two 12v wall warts that had the proper size tips.
    I also had a strip of PVC angle and used it even thought it was 3/4" wide, no big deal, but 1/2" is plenty wide.

    looks really good. Nice work.

    #1715 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    I can’t believe anyone would try to convince others that something looks good/bad. Crazy dude!

    Yet I still manage to actually stick to the point of the thread and post pics!
    Lighten up francis! Less whining/trolling and more pic’ing!

    see, you don't really have to convince anyone of anything. The point is, people should be telling other people their real thoughts on things like this. People that keep telling these people that , "it looks good"...or "good job dude", when they really think it looks horrible. Helps nobody. If people actually said what they were thinking. and the person that did it, gets the, "dude, that looks terrible". 94% of the time. Eventually, he's going to think to himself. ...."hummm, maybe it really does look like shit?". Then they come to their senses and realize it isn't practical for gameplay, and does bleach out all the art.

    #1718 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    Pretty sneaky sis! Unfortunately no matter how many times I tell my kids that Brussels sprouts are delicious and that they are wrong to hate them, they haven’t come to their senses yet!
    Now back to pics!!!

    my kid actually likes them. If you make them right, they will like them because they are actually sweet (White LED's). If you make them wrong they are bitter (Colored LED's in the GI's).

    #1724 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    Agreed! Unless you
    Doctor up those boring bland sprouts with some colorful and flavorful ingredients like butter (colored LEDS) and bacon (backbox led kits) the kids will never be convinced!
    Welp I’m convinced!
    Now, cmon slackers, back to pics!

    Steamed fresh brussels are great. Nice and sweet, full of flavor. doesn't need anything. If they need some coaxing into it, use melted cheese over the top. If they have a good first experience, they would have liked them from the get go.

    It's kind of like a pinball machine. If someone hasn't played a game before, and the first game they ever play, has colored LED's so they can't see the ball. Flippers misaligned. Leveled off to one side. They are not going to have a good experience playing that game, and they will have a bad vibe from that game ever since. So that game is ruined for them until they play a good machine.

    People can be converted to give second chances on games, that are leveled correctly. White GI's so they can see the ball. Correctly aligned flippers, and rebuilt flippers for full power.

    #1726 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    interesting! My kids tried them that way the first time and now they are ruined on Brussels forever!! Guess humans just have different tastes sometimes.
    As for vision issues, i put bifocals in my pins cup holders for the...ahem...older folks.
    Cheers and thanks for all of the advice!

    made right the first time. That would be amazing. I spent my whole life thinking brussel sprouts were supposed to be bitter, because nobody on the planet seemed to be able to make them correctly. No restaurants, family members or anyone. Wasn't until about 8 years ago with some experimenting, that I figured out they could taste good and be sweet. Must be genetic engineering. If they don't like them now, they will grow out of the phase and like them down the road. When practical outweighs the candy.

    Kids would eat crap if you let them. they need someone sensible to guide them in the right direction. Eventually they will see the light, and make the right choices down the road with proper guidance.

    #1729 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    Yeah but by then they’ll be old, ‘practical’, and telling other people what they should like!
    Now, more pics!!

    But you think the brussel sprout thing is a good excuse. But you have more choices for healthy veggies besides brussel sprouts. Just like you do have options to do your GI's correctly. Lets examine this.

    Kids need to eat healthy things for dinner. Packed full of vitamins.

    Good choices are:
    Broccoli
    Brussels Sprouts
    Carrots
    Cauliflower
    Peas
    Green beans

    (equal to)
    Cool white LEDs
    Incandescents
    Warm White
    Sunlight/daylight (there are subtle differences between warm and sunlights. Warm has a more yellow hue)

    Things you should not have your kids eat for dinner

    Gummy bears
    Skittles
    Jolly rangers
    Salt Water taffy

    (equal to)

    Any colored LED's in a GI area

    Now......sure, you CAN have your kids eat candy for dinner. Is it a good idea? Absolutely not. Because they will get sick eventually, just like the people that have to play games with colored bulbs in the GI's. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean it's not a dumb idea. And it's not about personal taste.

    #1739 1 year ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    Would this be considered clown puke?

    no. but if you sprinkled skittles or jolly ranchers on top, now it would be equal to clown puke as far as healthiness goes.

    #1748 1 year ago
    Quoted from irobot:

    I just came up with the ultimate pinball accessory:
    Why color-blob-LED the game when you can blob your eyes and CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN?
    Welcome to the pinball revolution
    If your game is already a rainbow of delightful artistry, now it will EXPLODE with color.

    those glasses should be something for pinball olympics. They would fit the part quite well.

    #1756 1 year ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Some thoughts about "white kits".
    I know someone who bought multiple kits and started installing them. First one: a little purple, but obviously a lot brighter than a game with dim and dirty incandescents. Second one: again, brightens up the game...but also has that purple haze. Third one: now I'm thinking, are all the games going to be turned purple?
    Fourth kit: I'm looking at it...wow, really brightens up the game a lot. I can see! This conversation ensues:
    Him: "I'm never buying from [redacted] again".
    Me: "Why not?"
    Him: "Every single bulb was white".
    Now, this is not someone who likes to color bomb games. This is someone who had incandescents in all his games, and then decided to buy a few LED kits.
    I worry that there isn't a market for all white kits. For two reasons: 1) Anyone who knows that they want an all white kit will probably just make it themselves. 2) As shown in the above story, anyone who doesn't know is going to feel ripped off to find that the kit is made up of nothing more than wedges and bayonets of the same bulb. What are they paying for exactly?
    Before your blood boils, let me state that I prefer almost entirely white GI in my games. If I do add a few colors, it's almost certainly going to be all the way in the back, where the ball is likely obscured anyway. There is a kit of mine earlier in the thread that gets picked on...and I think it's the only one that uses any colored GI in the lower half of the playfield at all. (And, as they always say, it doesn't look like that in person.)
    While making a kit for AC/DC, I tried to use color, but I couldn't. Nothing looked right. When I was finished with a clean, bright, nice looking game - my friend said: "It's too white. Why are you terrified of using color?".
    When I make a kit (which granted, is a new product for us in the last few months), I'm hoping that it will appeal to someone who doesn't know enough about LEDs yet to feel comfortable building their own. Hopefully my kit will give them a little more knowledge and confidence to go the DIY route next time. It's a disaster if the buyer feels ripped off when all the bulbs in the bag are identical.
    So, kind people in this thread, I ask you: would you buy all white kits? I think most of you are comfortable making your own. But, I'd love to be proven wrong.

    Another great aspect to white. Is that you don't buy kits. You just buy in bulk. I buy them by the 100's. Both in 555 and 47 style sockets. Always on hand when I need them.

    If you plan on owning more than 5 games, you should stop buying kits anyway. just get a plano box. And buy about 100 warm white in both 555 and 47 socket. 50 cool white. and 10 of every color in both 555 and 47 sockets. All with frosted dome, and a couple of those on the little wire to direct light in certain areas. Then you will have whatever you need when you need it. When a new game comes in, you are ready to go.

    #1758 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    You can certainly do an entire game in cool white, warm white or sunlight, but some insert colors look better with a matching color LED while some inserts look washed out with just a white LED.

    i agree. Behind inserts is the only place colored LED's should be. they look great behind inserts. As long as the insert is printed in only black or white. If it's a full printed insert, like those on IJ or diner. Then you cannot get away with it behind those inserts.

    #1790 1 year ago

    I went to the Garcade in menomonee Falls, Wi. Half of the pins were done correctly with LED's. The other half were done clown puke. I don't know if they had different people shopping games there, but holy shit, what a difference. Someone did a road kings in all red. You couldn't see shit, and this was a fully lit arcade, and still couldn't see what the shit was going on. Waterworld, with the upper 60% of the playfield done in blue. Again, couldn't see shit. Not only that, but they did the backglass correctly, in all white LED's so the glare was terrible. For one, you shouldn't use 2smb's or ultrabrights in a backglass. And 2 , you should pull out at least 50-80% of the bulbs out of blackglass areas if you have light colors in the trans art. This cuts down on glare a ton, yet lights up the backbox just fine. even one of the EM's was clown puked. Hollywood heat was done in pink. Least you could see on that one, but made the playfield look sickly. Others were done correctly and we could see the ball and play them like you should.

    But they did have a good variety of pins, all of them played good. Just 4 or 5 of them you couldn't see good to play because of the colored LED's.

    Again................. Colored LED's don't just look shitty, they hinder the ability to play the game. Which is the main sole purpose of everyone here to own pinball machines. if it makes it impossible to play correctly, you need to stop doing it. Might as well say...flippers are ugly and games look better without flippers. So pull all the flippers out of your games. It's personal preference right? If he thinks it looks better, why not? Why criticize that person? he can do what he wants. People shouldn't tell him negative things. Should tell him things like..... "GREAT JOB"....and....."I never realized how much better games look without flippers". Right color clown lovers.....isnt' that how it's suppose to work?

    #1810 1 year ago
    Quoted from tamoore:

    These people seem to be playing games with clown puke, and still having fun. WTF gives?????

    Doesn't look that way to me. The picture with the little girl, looks like she's using all of her might to keep from hurling because of the LED job.

    #1814 1 year ago
    Quoted from Manny10:

    Why so much hating ? Just LED the games as you like and enjoy the hobby ..

    because you need to be able to see the ball when you play. It's like playing a video game, with the gamma turned down to 10%

    #1818 1 year ago

    i disagree. I played at an arcade this weekend, with florescent overhead lighting. Road Kings was done in all red, and even with the overhead lighting, I couldn't see a damn thing anywhere. Same with waterworld that had the entire back in blue. It was so dark.

    Unless you have the light directly above shining down, you can't see shit. Even if you do, then you have glare, so you still can't see shit. There is a reason GI's are there. They supply game light, so you can see the ball. When you screw with that formula, you go from being able to see..to not.

    Having limited spectrum lighting, hinders the performance of your machine greatly.

    #1869 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

    Thats no more of an argument than "I like broccoli. Convince me why I'm wrong."

    nobody would have to. because Broccoli is the correct choice. It's the same as White LED's in your GI's. You can support it with facts, that broccoli is a huge source of nutrients. just like you can prove that white light, backlights and illuminates the entire color pallet correctly. Scientific facts behind it.

    #1876 1 year ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Yeah, but scientific or not: Some like broccoli, some dont.

    but you have other options of good choices. Like carrots, cauliflower and what not. just like doing the GI's correctly. Warm white, Cool white, sunlight.

    You have some options but there are still correct and incorrect choices.