Quoted from irobot:I just came up with the ultimate pinball accessory:
Why color-blob-LED the game when you can blob your eyes and CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN?
Welcome to the pinball revolution
If your game is already a rainbow of delightful artistry, now it will EXPLODE with color.
Quoted from ryanwanger:Some thoughts about "white kits".
....
So, kind people in this thread, I ask you: would you buy all white kits? I think most of you are comfortable making your own. But, I'd love to be proven wrong.
I only bought a couple of kits from Cointaker. All of them had white only GI and color matched inserts. My reason to get away from the kits was I like to choose my own whites, I prefer frosted warn whites.
I ran into an interesing post on Reddit:
Miss my JD. I did 4LED SMDs in RED for most of the GI (white for the pit under the deadworld) looked sick, also sold super quick. LEDz for life! Couldn't disagree more with the incandescent lovers. Worst thing you could do to your pin is leave those in IMO. To each his own and all that but if you're not a collector and you want it to sell, LED it out and be sure to use good LEDs
Funny comment on Reddit. Aside from the pit under the deadworld, Judge Dredd has what, like 11 GI bulbs? That game needs help no matter what you do!
All of the led GI "kits" I have ever bought included colored bulbs. The ones I posted pictures of earlier were from Cointaker. I don't mind them one bit. Just the right amount of color to avoid the clown puke.
So, there is something to this kit thing. Most of my games I just buy 100 packs of white bulbs. Wouldn't think of a kit for that.
Quoted from ryanwanger:Some thoughts about "white kits".
I know someone who bought multiple kits and started installing them. First one: a little purple, but obviously a lot brighter than a game with dim and dirty incandescents. Second one: again, brightens up the game...but also has that purple haze. Third one: now I'm thinking, are all the games going to be turned purple?
Fourth kit: I'm looking at it...wow, really brightens up the game a lot. I can see! This conversation ensues:
Him: "I'm never buying from [redacted] again".
Me: "Why not?"
Him: "Every single bulb was white".
Now, this is not someone who likes to color bomb games. This is someone who had incandescents in all his games, and then decided to buy a few LED kits.
I worry that there isn't a market for all white kits. For two reasons: 1) Anyone who knows that they want an all white kit will probably just make it themselves. 2) As shown in the above story, anyone who doesn't know is going to feel ripped off to find that the kit is made up of nothing more than wedges and bayonets of the same bulb. What are they paying for exactly?
Before your blood boils, let me state that I prefer almost entirely white GI in my games. If I do add a few colors, it's almost certainly going to be all the way in the back, where the ball is likely obscured anyway. There is a kit of mine earlier in the thread that gets picked on...and I think it's the only one that uses any colored GI in the lower half of the playfield at all. (And, as they always say, it doesn't look like that in person.)
While making a kit for AC/DC, I tried to use color, but I couldn't. Nothing looked right. When I was finished with a clean, bright, nice looking game - my friend said: "It's too white. Why are you terrified of using color?".
When I make a kit (which granted, is a new product for us in the last few months), I'm hoping that it will appeal to someone who doesn't know enough about LEDs yet to feel comfortable building their own. Hopefully my kit will give them a little more knowledge and confidence to go the DIY route next time. It's a disaster if the buyer feels ripped off when all the bulbs in the bag are identical.
So, kind people in this thread, I ask you: would you buy all white kits? I think most of you are comfortable making your own. But, I'd love to be proven wrong.
Another great aspect to white. Is that you don't buy kits. You just buy in bulk. I buy them by the 100's. Both in 555 and 47 style sockets. Always on hand when I need them.
If you plan on owning more than 5 games, you should stop buying kits anyway. just get a plano box. And buy about 100 warm white in both 555 and 47 socket. 50 cool white. and 10 of every color in both 555 and 47 sockets. All with frosted dome, and a couple of those on the little wire to direct light in certain areas. Then you will have whatever you need when you need it. When a new game comes in, you are ready to go.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:Another great aspect to white. Is that you don't buy kits. You just buy in bulk. I buy them by the 100's. Both in 555 and 47 style sockets. Always on hand when I need them.
You can certainly do an entire game in cool white, warm white or sunlight, but some insert colors look better with a matching color LED while some inserts look washed out with just a white LED.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:You can certainly do an entire game in cool white, warm white or sunlight, but some insert colors look better with a matching color LED while some inserts look washed out with just a white LED.
i agree. Behind inserts is the only place colored LED's should be. they look great behind inserts. As long as the insert is printed in only black or white. If it's a full printed insert, like those on IJ or diner. Then you cannot get away with it behind those inserts.
Quoted from ryanwanger:So, kind people in this thread, I ask you: would you buy all white kits? I think most of you are comfortable making your own. But, I'd love to be proven wrong.
When I buy a kit, I only want white GI and then color-matched inserts. Any color in the GI and I'm upset. I usually just make my own kits though. I just decide if I want to go warm or cool white for the GI (depends on the game) and then take stock of the inserts and buy colors to match accordingly. But if I bought a kit and it had colors in the GI, I would be really bothered by that.
I think kits should be handled the same way Titans does it for rubbers. Let people create their own and post them. Its super handy even if you create your own just to get the count right. I have never understood the point of an off the shelf LED kit.
Quoted from TheLaw:No, white kits serve no purpose for me... Not that I would buy a kit anyway.
But yeah I would just, and have, buy 50 packs of white
^^^This. I would never buy an LED kit, color or white. From my experience, you end up paying way more for things you don't need by buying a kit.
Quoted from ryanwanger:Some thoughts about "white kits".
I know someone who bought multiple kits and started installing them. First one: a little purple, but obviously a lot brighter than a game with dim and dirty incandescents. Second one: again, brightens up the game...but also has that purple haze. Third one: now I'm thinking, are all the games going to be turned
So, kind people in this thread, I ask you: would you buy all white kits? I think most of you are comfortable making your own. But, I'd love to be proven wrong.
Two thoughts:
1. It's hard to decide anything about a huge group of people based on a feedback from just a few people. Especially from the loudest people.
Look at this thread, you got 10 or 15 people arguing back and forth about some hideously puked games. Not exactly a large, clean data sample.
2. We are the hardcore hobby guys. We're not going to buy a kit because we are very particular and we're willing to dick around with loose bulbs.
But the casual owner needs someone to hold his hand and make it easy.
The guy who is paying retail for a pinball machine from some showroom and has to pay "The Pinball Doctor" to come free a stuck ball is not going to play around with loose bulbs, there's too many options, there are dozens of bulbs in the games, it's too confusing.
A guy like that is going to either buy a kit or it aint going to happen.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:You can certainly do an entire game in cool white, warm white or sunlight, but some insert colors look better with a matching color LED while some inserts look washed out with just a white LED.
I agree totally.
Why not use the technology to make the game look newer and better?
You have to figure that if these LED bulbs had been around in 1990, Bally would have used them. Why not?
My CV came with a kit installed, the colored bulbs under the inserts were done very well and they look great.
The GI is non-frosted white SMDs and they hurt your eyes, the whole game is lit way too bright. So I have to switch them out.
I'll probably recycle them under the white inserts in my other pins.
I'm not a purist, I just think that the colored LEDs are being used in a way that is gross overkill and making the games look bad.
Quoted from TheLaw:Yeah it helps the dipshits to just act like we're all a hunch of old bastards yelling; but then again they can't even keep straight what we're saying. I have LEDS in all but 2 of my games, LEDS are awesome.
Get off my lawn! And Get LED's into them last 2 games. What ya waiting for, gramps?????
Quoted from TheLaw:Haha this C dumspter over here
jeez, you kiss your sister with that mouth lol?
Now, less snowflakin and more picturin'!
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:backpedaling is wonderful exercise lol! Now, cmon dudes, more pics!!!
LOL
you need to go to troll academy and up your game a little
Quoted from TheLaw:Yeah it helps the dipshits to just act like we're all a hunch of old bastards yelling; but then again they can't even keep straight what we're saying. I have LEDS in all but 2 of my games, LEDS are awesome.
don't argue with them anymore, they're just trolling the thread
it was dumb 20 pages ago and it went downhill from there, they're not even trying to make any sense at this point
Quoted from ryanwanger:So, kind people in this thread, I ask you: would you buy all white kits? I think most of you are comfortable making your own. But, I'd love to be proven wrong.
I already do and I buy them all from you guys. I have all white in four of my machines, not all the same though. They are a mixture of 1SMD, 2SMD, frosted and clear. I like to put certain bulbs in key locations and I am pretty particular about it. Led install to me is like a form of art and I like to pretend that I am painting a picture on canvas and the best job is always done through thorough experimentation. I like to take at least 2 to 3hrs to led a machine to get it to my liking.
Quoted from sohchx:I already do and I buy them all from you guys. I have all white in four of my machines, not all the same though. They are a mixture of 1SMD, 2SMD, frosted and clear. I like to put certain bulbs in key locations and I am pretty particular about it. Led install to me is like a form of art and I like to pretend that I am painting a picture on canvas and the best job is always done through thorough experimentation. I like to take at least 2 to 3hrs to led a machine to get it to my liking.
It would be pretty interesting if you were to do a how-to or maybe a video pointing out your method.
A quick once over the machine to show how and why you did your bulb selection.
Picking bulbs is actually pretty confusing, there are a lot of options.
I plan on just buying a 25 pack of the four bulbs you mention and doing some trial and error.
My atlantis has some actual red GI bulbs so I guess I'll try a frosted red 1 smd there, see how it looks. Anyone put bulb condoms on LEDs?
Quoted from irobot:Anyone put bulb condoms on LEDs?
I do it all the time in games that had incandescent lamps with condoms. Granted, a red LED is red when lit, I want it red when not lit. Just like it originally was.
I think the reason some people buy kits is so that they don't have to count bulbs or figure out what bulbs to get. Just get a kit, install with instructions, and be done in the shortest amount of time. They probably don't care too much if a bulb is warm white, cold white, or whatever color as long as it brightens up the game looking decent. I like to customize and spend a lot of time getting it right. I enjoy doing it and hard to know what looks good without trying a few things.
Quoted from jawjaw:I think the reason some people buy kits is so that they don't have to count bulbs or figure out what bulbs to get. Just get a kit, install with instructions, and be done in the shortest amount of time
This is what a friend of mine is doing with his RFM. At least I was able to convince him of not using LEDs at all in the upper 1/4 of the playfield because of the 50% power pulses that cause epileptic flicker instead of 1/2 power fade effects. Mine is all incandescent. He doesn't want to take time to select bulbs, and would rather pay for the kit.
Quoted from sohchx:These are compliments of Letgo. The thing needs to be "Letgo" from the edge of a cliff into a deep ravine.
I keep hoping some sad sucker will buy that game just so I stop seeing it pop up in my search.
Quoted from statictrance:I keep hoping some sad sucker will buy that game just so I stop seeing it pop up in my search.
Exactly I'm tired of seeing it also.
Quoted from Taxman:It is a fact that blue light is implicated in the development of age-related macular degeneration.
and here what are they replacing street and freeway lights with....led lights which reproduce large amounts of blue light. I heard an NPR report about it.
Quoted from MustangPaul:and here what are they replacing street and freeway lights with....led lights which reproduce large amounts of blue light. I heard an NPR report about it.
While I am smoking and drinking a beer, I am thinking: This Pinsider needs to stop listening to NPR. 
Quoted from MustangPaul:and here what are they replacing street and freeway lights with....led lights which reproduce large amounts of blue light. I heard an NPR report about it.
They look much whiter than most of the cool white LEDs I see in pins!
I haven't been on Pinside in a long... LONG time, but this thread got my attention. I remember over the years that people would post clowns barfing rainbows in my posts. I usually replied "Thank You," because from my perspective it was actually a compliment. Wow, I had no idea! So I am officially calling myself out on clown puke. Here come some of the most recent pics from the Shanetastic Clown Puke Game Room 2018! Put your sunglasses on... 
Quoted from TheLaw:Yeah we all Remeber your blandness
Thank you! Wait.... wait a minute... ha haa! But anyway I was just trying to make fun of myself for your entertainment. Sorry I didn't hit the mark.
Quoted from wayout440:While I am smoking and drinking a beer, I am thinking: This Pinsider needs to stop listening to NPR.
I went to the Garcade in menomonee Falls, Wi. Half of the pins were done correctly with LED's. The other half were done clown puke. I don't know if they had different people shopping games there, but holy shit, what a difference. Someone did a road kings in all red. You couldn't see shit, and this was a fully lit arcade, and still couldn't see what the shit was going on. Waterworld, with the upper 60% of the playfield done in blue. Again, couldn't see shit. Not only that, but they did the backglass correctly, in all white LED's so the glare was terrible. For one, you shouldn't use 2smb's or ultrabrights in a backglass. And 2 , you should pull out at least 50-80% of the bulbs out of blackglass areas if you have light colors in the trans art. This cuts down on glare a ton, yet lights up the backbox just fine. even one of the EM's was clown puked. Hollywood heat was done in pink. Least you could see on that one, but made the playfield look sickly. Others were done correctly and we could see the ball and play them like you should.
But they did have a good variety of pins, all of them played good. Just 4 or 5 of them you couldn't see good to play because of the colored LED's.
Again................. Colored LED's don't just look shitty, they hinder the ability to play the game. Which is the main sole purpose of everyone here to own pinball machines. if it makes it impossible to play correctly, you need to stop doing it. Might as well say...flippers are ugly and games look better without flippers. So pull all the flippers out of your games. It's personal preference right? If he thinks it looks better, why not? Why criticize that person? he can do what he wants. People shouldn't tell him negative things. Should tell him things like..... "GREAT JOB"....and....."I never realized how much better games look without flippers". Right color clown lovers.....isnt' that how it's suppose to work?
Those Iron Man flipper bat toppers are the dumbest thing I've seen in a long time. Another pinball collector choosing aesthetics over playability.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I went to the Garcade in menomonee Falls, Wi. Half of the pins were done correctly with LED's. The other half were done clown puke. I don't know if they had different people shopping games there, but holy shit, what a difference. Someone did a road kings in all red. You couldn't see shit, and this was a fully lit arcade, and still couldn't see what the shit was going on.
That was the burning in hell version, was there last week myself. I agree totally. The Williams em with clown lighting on the ladder was fun too. 
I wonder if the young kids like it or feel its more interesting, I dunno. There were some young ones like 9 or 10 playing them, of course I suppose it’s a win when a kid chooses to play an em over arcades or staying home on the Xbox. So maybe that’s the angle they’re working.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I went to the Garcade in menomonee Falls, Wi. Half of the pins were done correctly with LED's. The other half were done clown puke. I don't know if they had different people shopping games there, but holy shit, what a difference. Someone did a road kings in all red. You couldn't see shit, and this was a fully lit arcade, and still couldn't see what the shit was going on. Waterworld, with the upper 60% of the playfield done in blue. Again, couldn't see shit. Not only that, but they did the backglass correctly, in all white LED's so the glare was terrible. For one, you shouldn't use 2smb's or ultrabrights in a backglass. And 2 , you should pull out at least 50-80% of the bulbs out of blackglass areas if you have light colors in the trans art. This cuts down on glare a ton, yet lights up the backbox just fine. even one of the EM's was clown puked. Hollywood heat was done in pink. Least you could see on that one, but made the playfield look sickly. Others were done correctly and we could see the ball and play them like you should.
But they did have a good variety of pins, all of them played good. Just 4 or 5 of them you couldn't see good to play because of the colored LED's.
Again................. Colored LED's don't just look shitty, they hinder the ability to play the game. Which is the main sole purpose of everyone here to own pinball machines. if it makes it impossible to play correctly, you need to stop doing it. Might as well say...flippers are ugly and games look better without flippers. So pull all the flippers out of your games. It's personal preference right? If he thinks it looks better, why not? Why criticize that person? he can do what he wants. People shouldn't tell him negative things. Should tell him things like..... "GREAT JOB"....and....."I never realized how much better games look without flippers". Right color clown lovers.....isnt' that how it's suppose to work?
Holy cow, I haven’t seen a strawman like that since WOZ lol!!
Quoted from shanetastic:Thank you! Wait.... wait a minute... ha haa! But anyway I was just trying to make fun of myself for your entertainment. Sorry I didn't hit the mark.
Ha just kidding. Wow a full year away from pinside... What's the outside world like
Quoted from TheLaw:What's the outside world like
The outside is cold and white here. There is a good analogy I'm passing on.
Quoted from TheLaw:Ha just kidding. Wow a full year away from pinside... What's the outside world like
I took a bit of a break from the pinball hobby and have been doing some PC gaming, but I am starting to feel the need for pinball once again. My Whirlwind has been having a boot issue that I haven't been able to resolve myself, so I was reaching out to the Pinside community so see if anyone had any advice, but then I was inexplicably drawn to this particular thread out of all of the others in that massive wall of unread threads.
Ya know, now that I think of it, my PC is straight puke, too! There may not be any hope for me. 
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