Pull the fuse and check it with a meter first, or put a new one in.

Hawkeye is on it. Check the fuses with a dmm, pull em out and check em.

For starters.... check the flipper fuses located on flipper board on the side of the cab (left side). This board gets damaged often due to its location. Inspect the board for broken componets. People fuck it up when lifting the playfield. Also, check the 50v fuse and fuse clips on the ppb (top left side). The clips are flimsy. If the fuses are good, you might have a bad TIP36 on the flipper board (should measure .5 to .7). See where you're at after that.

Nope sorry, my PZ never had an issue with him. The only thing I can remember doing it revoving him to clean him. I did clean the mechanism as well because all sorts of black stuff accumulates under him.

Took me a good 30 mins to do that job. there is the motor that spins him left/right and then there is an up/down tab that moves his mouth.

I just cleaned him up and he always worked for me. Sorry!

Cool. I would check all fuses to make sure they are rated properly while you're at it. It's one of the first things I do when I get a new game. People do crazy stuff.

My bad, thought you were up and running. Which fuses keep blowing on the flipper board? F1 and F3?

Everything was fine until you entered game mode? Meaning, started a game? Ball went to shooter lane and boom?

As far as the fuses, F2/F4 is +9v for hold power (holding the flipper up).

F3 is for 50v for the lower left flipper. Take a look at that flipper coil wiring and make sure the diode is installed the right way. Also, pay close attention to damaged parts on that flipper board. I'd pull it out.

A quick check would be to clip or unsolder the + wire on the ball shooter lane feeder (if I understand correctly what you said the seller related).

Then you can see if that coil or associated hardware is the problem.

Not sure why he thinks that 's the problem, unless he did something there and then he could never get the game to work afterward.

Try to do some head work before you start replacing stuff...or run out of fuses.

Robert

Nice, banded side needs to be in the middle. Power needs to be connected to it, purple/yellow. Installing a new diode will be fine (1N4004). You don't need new coils but it's up to you. Cut the old one out and resolder a new one on the lugs. Be careful not to damage the coil wires.

Wiring is on pg 28 of 35 on the manual.
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1976/Data_East_1990_Robocop_Manual.pdf

Flipper coils if you want to go that route.
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=156&parent=0

Going thru the holes is better, because it holds the leads better, but you don't have to. Cut the old diode as close to the body as possible and solder the leads of the new one tho those leads.

Robert

I can't wait to see how this turns out...

The fuses blow when you start a game? Or as soon as you turn it on?

Wiring looks right. Always verify it with the manual when in question. Measure the coils with the power off. Should be 4 to 6 ohms. If your flipper coils, coil diodes and wiring all check good (Assuming nothing crazy is going on with the flipper cab switch wiring) Time to move to the flipper board and/or flipper relay (RY1) on the cpu board.

Let's isolate coil/diode from flipper board. Disconnect CN2 from the flipper board, replace all fuses and power the game up and start a game. If the fuses blow, then you're board is toast. If they hold, then you have a wiring, coil or diode issue. I'm guessing you have either a direct wiring short or the board is bad, because the fuse should not blow on power up/game up if the coil/diode is bad until you press the flipper button and it doesn't sound like you're getting that far.

Just picked up a Robocop pinball and everything works except both flippers.

Did you get the game knowing the flippers didn't work or you found out they didn't work when you got it home?
It looks like your problem is off the PCB. Also the manual does not have all the schematics. the only thing i could find was this.

CN19 says "Flipper ground from CPU Relay".
CN1 says "switched ground for flippers"

So I am not sure what this means as there is no CPU PCB and various other schematics.
Also there is a .1uf cap across the flipper switches.
Did you measure across each flipper switch to make sure they were open circuit?

Does anyone have the full manual with all the schematics? robocopFlipperschem.jpg

Is it just me, or does the back of that board look pretty messed up? Look at all the 50v and ground traces. They look like they have separated from the board being all crinkly and such.

That's quite normal, I suppose the traces flux with heat. Something on that board is shorted. Flipped coil diodes would NOT cause fuses to blow immediately when you start a game because no power is sent to the coils yet. The only way this could happen is if the coils are getting 50v all the time which isn't normal. The power supply is supplying 50v all the time. The flipper PCB does communicate with the CPU.

Not having this game, as I stated previously, it would be nice to have the full set of schematics and interconnects.

Good bundle package and you'll get Robo up and running, so many here to help.

I'm thinking CN2 is supplying the Voltages to the PCB, so when disconnected no power to the PCB and associated circuits. Again schematics would be very helpful. Wonder why IPDB version is missing most of the schematics.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, my understanding is by unplugging CN2 you are disconnecting the wiring to the flipper coils. Plus, 50V from the PPB board and 8VAC for your hold up flipper voltage. So I'm not sure if that's going to tell you anything because, everything is disable.

CN2 pin 1 - Left flipper coil
CN2 pin 2 - Left flipper coil
CN2 pin 3 - Nothing it's, keyed
CN2 pin 4 - Right flipper coil
CN2 pin 5 - Right flipper coil
CN2 pin 6 - 8-9VAC for flipper up
CN2 pin 7 - 8-9VAC for flipper up
PPB board J7-1 feeds 50V to----> CN2 pin 8 - 50VDC flipper power
PPB board J7-5 feeds 50V to----> CN2 pin 9 - 50VDC flipper power

Check J7 pins 1 and 5 for shorts, Check CN2 pin 8-9 for shorts.

Flipper coils measured right? So that's good.

Flipper diodes are installed right but did you measure them? Did you use new ones? With the game off. DMM on diode reading, cut a lead and you should get .4 to .6 in one direction and open when you reverse the leads. Easiest to just install new ones. Should be a 1N4004. Right over the lug is fine. Power to the banded side, middle lug.

Robocop's flipper coils didn't use an eos switch, but what about the flipper cab switches? Should be normally open. The .1 cap is for spark reduction by the way. It should have a lane change/high score switches attached. Look for shorts. Doubt it's an issue, but I would elimate everthing at this point.

Follow the flipper coil wires all the way up to the backbox. Check the wire harness. I know data east put a 2 pin connector that disconnects 8v flipper up power before it goes to the backbox. What about the flipper coil wires? Did someone cut them at one point and added a connector from the backbox? Is it shorted?

The RY1 flipper replay could be suspect on the cpu board. It turns ground on to the flippers. If it fails, the flippers won't work. It works with Q80. You should hear it click when the game starts.

At this point, I'm leaning towards bad driver transistors on the flipper board. Since the diodes were reversed and power was applied, it shorted out the the driver transistors associated with both flippers. When this happens, the fuse(s) will blow immediately.

Yes, those would be in question (Their TIP36C's and TIP32C's) for the left and right flipper power. They work with F1 and F3. Measure them, if bad replace with the same type of course. I would also check the diodes and S2800B silicon controlled rectifiers (SR1 and SR2). Not sure about IRL 540N at the moment. You would have to do a search for compatibility. The transistors would be the best place to start. Usual suspects. Although, doing a quick board swap would be the best.

Nope, you're correct and my mistake....I was actually going to have him disconnect one coil wire from each coil, but then in haste thought you could do that by disconnecting CN2. I forgot the 50V supply from the PPB comes in on that too.

The reason I didn't/don't suspect the transistors is because if they were shorted on, the flippers would come up and then the fuse would blow, no? But if I read the OP's description correctly, it's blowing as soon as the game is powered on or put into game mode, and the flippers aren't moving?

Soooo.....Again, to determine board or coil/diode/field wiring, instead of disconnecting CN2, remove one wire from each coil and tape off. Then replace fuses and power on. See if the fuses hold. If they do not, then you have an internal short somewhere on your flipper board.

If, the flippers ARE moving before the game blows the fuse on power up, then disregard the above test and start looking at the TIP transistors as suggested already.

Use the Checkpoint schematics....Same flipper board. Don't use JP/TFTC, as the flipper board went from 9 pins to 12 pins on CN1/CN2.

Thanks robert

Just as a point of clarification...Before with wires on and CN2 connected and the fuses blew, did they:

1) Blow as soon as pin is powered up?

2) Blow as soon as game is started?

3) Blow as soon as game is started and flipper button is pressed?

And during 1, 2 or 3, did the flippers move at all?

And, you have verified that the wires on CN2-1/2 and CN2-4/5 go to the banded side of the diode?

Lastly, with CN2 pulled, wires reconnected to coils and game powered off, with your meter on ohms, stick a paperclip into the CN2 connector on pins 1, 2, 4 and 5 and check each pin to ground and each pin to the ground lug on the flipper coil (the non-banded side of diode). Red lead of meter on CN2, black lead on the non-banded side of diode (some meters source enough voltage in resistance mode to switch the diode, so by putting red lead on the CN2 side we prevent this).

Each pin to ground should read open circuit or very high ohms. If this reads close to zero you have a short somewhere. If it reads 3 to 5 ohms, its reading through the coil which means the coil ground is made which means something is fubared in your flipper relay circuit on the main board.

Each pin to the ground lug on the coil should read around 3 to 5 ohms. If this reads zero, your diode is bad. If this reads open or very high ohms, your coil is bad. If it reads fractional ohms, then your coil windings are shorted.

If measuring 4.5 ohms then sounds like your coil/diode are fine.

You can measure to any ground strap in the game, assuming all your grounds are in tact. Or one of the mounting screws on the MPU board in the head...those are grounded.

Very odd that the fuses blow immediately but you never see the coil move at all. When game is started that's when the flipper relay pulls which connects the ground path from the flipper buttons to the coils. Just seems odd that even if the .1uf cap is shorted on the flipper switches as pdman is suggesting I would expect you to see some movement of the flipper before the fuse blows. For the fuse to immediately blow with no movement of the flipper doesn't suggest a locked on transistor or flipper button always grounded as you should see the flipper move and then the fuse blow.

But stranger things have happened, so certainly follow through with each suggestion. Check the caps as pdman recommended. Another test, this time, remove the ground wire from each coil (from the non-banded side of the diode), and leave the wire in tact from the coil to CN2. Then power on and start game and see if fuse blows. If it doesn't blow, use your meter on VDC and check at the coil lug with your meter, one lead on the coil lug with the CN2 wire, one lead on a convenient ground. You should have ~50VDC. That will at least prove out that the flipper board is sending 50V to the coil. Then, you can take a length of wire, connect it to ground and briefly touch the coil lug where you removed the ground wire. See if it fires or blows the fuse.

PS...You are installing slo-blo fuses correct?

I'm getting excited here....hope it gets fixed soon!

Well, that at least says your coil/diode are good and wired correctly.

However, I'm troubled that you have a constant 50VDC to the flipper. You shouldn't on DE solid state flipper games.

I just verified on my TFTC...same board design for the most part, but I have additional connectors for a third flipper.

Go ahead and solder everything back.

With the game turned on, and in attract mode, lift the playfield. Press your flipper buttons and note, do you see the LED on the flipper board flash each time you press the flipper? If so, put your meter on VDC, one lead on the blue/x wire on the coil and the other lead on the braided ground strap in the bottom of the cabinet. Kind of tough, but I used my hip to press the flipper button in this position. You should see a brief spike in the voltage (that's the board sending 50V to the flipper) followed by the voltage settling down to around 6 to 8V (that's the holding voltage) as long as your holding the button in. When you release the button you should have close to 0V. The EOS doesn't have to move as DE automatically reduces the voltage regardless of the EOS switch.

This is how the game normally functions. In attract mode the only thing keeping the flipper from firing is the fact the flipper relay is off removing ground from the orange wires on the coil. Everything else with the LED lights on the board, the voltage rising and falling, should be the same even in attract mode, so it's a good test.

At this point I'm leaning towards a bad flipper board. What's happening is that the board seems to be sending high voltage to the coils all the time. As soon as you start a game, the flipper relay closes which enables ground to the coil, completes the circuit and the fuse blows as the voltage is not dropping to the 8V holding power. The fact that your previous test showed you had 70V (non loaded 50V) at the coil all the time confirms this thinking.

Could very well be the TIP36c's, the TIP 32cs or even the diodes on the board (eg D6) are shorted...

All the components are checkable, but it will take some desoldering skills and use of a meter. If you're up to it, and you have Clay's guides for testing the various components you could work your way through it. If you're not comfortable with soldering/desoldering or testing, you could send it off. It would be great if you could find someone near you that would loan you a board to try, but it sure is pointing to a suspect board.

Here's a similar thread and unfortunately, the TIP36c didn't fix his problem...well, he did get one flip out of it.
http://rgparchive-removed.com/rgpforum/showthread.php?t=322872

Again, if the TIP36c was shorted however, I would expect you to see flipper movement prior to the fuse blowing. Same if the pre-driver TIP32c was shorted, I would expect to see flipper movement. However, looking at the schematics, if the diodes that are across the TIP36c's (D6 and I can't tell the other one from the manual as it's smeared on the crease in the pdf) are shorted, that would put voltage directly to the coils. So, maybe check those.

This repair has more action than the movie. It's a cliff hanger. I would install a new board at this point.

I would bet its going to be a tip36c. No matter what, it is going to be associated with the high power on the board.

If it blow when you start a game = high power.

When you find the bad transistor, change its diode and any pre-drivers on that circuit, or you may never figure it out!

If you put the red lead on your dmm and black on ground and it shows a closed circuit, that transistor is bad.

I would do that as a quick check. Not 100% check, but the majority of the time it answers my questions.

If its bad, change that transistor, diode, and the Tip102? that is the pre-driver.

Those data east flipper boards can be bought for around $70 from I think mad amusements. Rottendog makes them. Probably cheaper than sending the board put for repair if you're not doing the repair yourself.

I can't imagine it would be less than $50. That's my guess.