No Power to Doodle Bug Playfield - Solved


By jedi42

1 month ago


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  • Latest reply 1 month ago by newmantjn
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Doodle Bug Schematic.pdf (PDF preview)


#1 49 days ago

Hi Pinsiders,

I have been restoring my first EM, Doodle Bug, and it was a mess. The previous owner(s) seemed to use grease lubricant on the scoring reels, step units, etc. I have just finished the cleaning and am trying to track down playfield issues. There doesn't seem to be any power to the majority of my playfield. Here are the details:
- I can start a game, ball eject works, score resets, ready to play
- the backbox seems to be working properly (scoring works, lights, ball steps down, game over works, credits work
- my scoring reels and step units seem to be working properly
- but very little is operational on the playfield. No lights of any sort, nothing registers, pop bumpers don't register, etc.
- the flippers work, the kick out hole works and lights up (and scores properly), and the ball eject works

At first I thought this must be a blown fuse, but all 5 of them seem OK. have re-seated the Jones plus. It seems there must be one spot that is the issue for everything to be out like this, but I can't seem to track it down. Any advice?

#2 49 days ago

The cam that rotates to start the game has a multi contact switch on it when it reaches the correct position. First make sure it has fully rotated to the right position (you can turn it manually but only in the correct direction of normal travel - never turn it backwards) and then make sure the leaves of the contacts are all correctly bent to where they should be and clean the contacts.

This should draw in the main solenoid for the power to the other items.

I haven't seen a schematic for this particular game, but this is something I've had on three previous EM's with similar faults. If nothing else, it's a good starting place.

Best of luck.

#3 49 days ago

Maybe check the switches on the lock relay and tilt relay.

#4 49 days ago

I can get you through this if you have the schematic. Unfortunately IPDB doesn't have it.

#5 49 days ago

If one of those was the culprit, nothing would work, would it? I can start a game, use the flippers, score (albeit only the kick out hole works on the playfield) and the game ends when I drain all the balls.

Quoted from bonzo71:

Maybe check the switches on the lock relay and tilt relay.

#6 49 days ago

Yes, I do have the full schematic.

Quoted from HowardR:

I can get you through this if you have the schematic. Unfortunately IPDB doesn't have it.

#7 49 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

If one of those was the culprit, nothing would work, would it? I can start a game, use the flippers, score (albeit only the kick out hole works on the playfield) and the game ends when I drain all the balls.

I'm not sure. I think it is possible that those relays have multiple switches and one is specific for playfield illumination. It would only take a minute or two to check. I think it may also be worth while to clean the jones plugs with some high grit sand paper until they are shiny as you can make them. When you tested the fuses, did you remove them from the game?

#8 49 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Yes, I do have the full schematic.

How about posting pics of it here, or even better at
http://ipdb.org/search.pl?any=doodle+bug&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#703
because for me to help you, I need to see it.

#9 49 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

If one of those was the culprit, nothing would work, would it? I can start a game, use the flippers, score (albeit only the kick out hole works on the playfield) and the game ends when I drain all the balls.

Bonzo is correct. On most WMS EM's, the tilt relay has a switch that powers playfield illumination and another switch that gives power to the playfield switches. The kick out hole and flippers are on a separate circuit. So check the tilt relay.

#10 49 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

- the flippers work, the kick out hole works and lights up (and scores properly), and the ball eject works

This points to no single issue. The flippers are on the same end of the circuit as most the other things. The lights are on a different circuit altogether.

There is no tilt relay on this game.

Lets look at the lights first, since they are the easiest. Look in the lower left corner of your schematic, area 2 and 3 A. The lights are controlled by the following:

Lock relay and fuse. That's it.

Lock relay: The switch with the G-Y-W wire on one side and the Blue-Y-W wire on the other. Make sure this relay is pulling in and that switch is clean and making good contact. Jumper it to be sure. Next is the fuse.

Quoted from jedi42:

At first I thought this must be a blown fuse, but all 5 of them seem OK.

Seems OK means nothing. Jumper the connector. This will tell you in short order if either the fuse or the notoriously bad holder is no good. They can look fine and not be fine. If the jumper fixes, then check the fuse with an ohm meter. PULL IT OUT and ohm it out. Don't leave it in place.

Regarding the PF:
Get a better reading on the symptoms - Make a list, the pop bumper pops, but doesn't score. This rollover does nothing. That kicker kicks but doesn't score.

Also, double, triple check your jones plugs. If you haven't cleaned them up yet, go after them with a dremel and a wire wheel or sandpaper or a wire brush. Random unrelated problems are often jones plug related.

#11 48 days ago

I did just submit the schematics to IPDB, but they have to review before it is posted. So, I attached the pdf I created today. I have no way to make it continuous, so I am not sure if it will help.

Quoted from HowardR:

How about posting pics of it here, or even better at
http://ipdb.org/search.pl?any=doodle+bug&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#703
because for me to help you, I need to see it.

Doodle Bug Schematic.pdf

#12 48 days ago

OK, I will check over the lock relay tonight, but almost positive it was pulling as soon as I power the game. I doubt it is the issue, and now wondering about your fuse idea. I will test more carefully tonight and jumper them as well to test.

Quoted from newmantjn:

Lets look at the lights first, since they are the easiest. Look in the lower left corner of your schematic, area 2 and 3 A. The lights are controlled by the following:
Lock relay and fuse. That's it.
Lock relay: The switch with the G-Y-W wire on one side and the Blue-Y-W wire on the other. Make sure this relay is pulling in and that switch is clean and making good contact. Jumper it to be sure. Next is the fuse.

Seems OK means nothing. Jumper the connector. This will tell you in short order if either the fuse or the notoriously bad holder is no good. They can look fine and not be fine. If the jumper fixes, then check the fuse with an ohm meter. PULL IT OUT and ohm it out. Don't leave it in place.

#13 48 days ago

Good idea on the Jones plugs, I will clean them tonight.

As for a list of symptoms:

Working on playfield:
kick out hole (lights up, shoots ball out, scores) - works perfectly
flippers (work perfectly)
ball save pop-up (up post between flippers) - I think this is working, as it cycles when a new game is started

NOT working on playfield
GI lights - none work on playfield (all of backbox lights do)
pop-bumpers (no lights, do not activate)
sling-shots (not working)
stand up targets (not working)
Outlanes (not working)
roll-overs (not working)
doodle bug (not working, no lights)

Quoted from newmantjn:

Regarding the PF:
Get a better reading on the symptoms - Make a list, the pop bumper pops, but doesn't score. This rollover does nothing. That kicker kicks but doesn't score.
Also, double, triple check your jones plugs. If you haven't cleaned them up yet, go after them with a dremel and a wire wheel or sandpaper or a wire brush. Random unrelated problems are often jones plug related.

#14 48 days ago
Quoted from newmantjn:

There is no tilt relay on this game.

OK, I screwed up. I didn't see it on a quick perusal of the schematic/relay list, but it is there and at F-15 on the schematic. Sorry if this caused confusion.

The thing is, ALL the features (except the GI) you listed are fed by the game Over Relay (NC) Reset Relay (NC) and Tilt Relay (NC) in series. If one doesn't work, they all shouldn't work. The fact that your flippers DO work is a real head scratcher. This implies a wiring issue of some sort. A broken wire, a broken solder joint, something like that. You almost need to trace the wire and look for something odd. The jones plug is still a potential.

If I get a moment tonight, maybe I can pop my game open and see if I notice a potential failure point.

#15 48 days ago

Good scan, @jedi42, and thanks for submitting your schematic to IPDB.

Quoted from newmantjn:

...This implies a wiring issue of some sort. A broken wire, a broken solder joint, something like that. You almost need to trace the wire and look for something odd. The jones plug is still a potential.

Good call, @newmantjn.

Since the problem affects both playfield lights and solenoids, first I'd trace the yellow wire. With the game ready to play, and the playfield up, at each yellow wire connection you can jump from there to the yellow wire on the transformer. At some point the playfield lights should come on.

#16 48 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Since the problem affects both playfield lights and solenoids, first I'd trace the yellow wire. With the game ready to play, and the playfield up, at each yellow wire connection you can jump from there to the yellow wire on the transformer. At some point the playfield lights should come on.

Just looked in mine. The yellow turns into Black/White on at the flipper switch. The black and white gets passed to the PF, so yep. Probably the yellow wire didn't make it to the PF for some reason.

That would also be common cause to the lights. The schematic represents the logic, not the actual wiring. I forget that sometimes.

#17 47 days ago

Just an update:
Fuses are good, and test fine with a MM.

I took off the playfield to properly clean the advance unit, and when I put it back in and started the game another issue cropped up, the 10 point relay is stuck on. It is being caused by the playfield, as when I unplug the Jones plug for the playfiled, the 10 point relay isn't energized anymore. Points to something on the playfield in closed mode, but all the leaf springs seem open when they should be. Is there a process to try and find a fault like a crossed wire, etc?

Perhaps related to my original problem, maybe not?

#18 47 days ago

If it locks on immediately, it is a play field switch. Check them all. Slip pieces of paper in to be sure. Check the damper blade on each switch as well. Don't forget the doodle bug switch.

If it locks on after a score, check EOS in score reel and lock on switch in 10 point relay.

#19 47 days ago

Yes, that will be my next step with the slips of paper. Is there a way to test if it is not a switch, but a crossed wire (e.g. jumpering past switches)?

Quoted from newmantjn:

If it locks on immediately, it is a play field switch. Check them all. Slip pieces of paper in to be sure. Check the damper blade on each switch as well. Don't forget the doodle bug switch.
If it locks on after a score, check EOS in score reel and lock on switch in 10 point relay.

#20 47 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Is there a way to test if it is not a switch, but a crossed wire (e.g. jumpering past switches)?

Paper in the switches is the test I use. You are looking for a short, not an open, so jumper won't work.

There is really nothing more I can add than has already been written here - read this small section:

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#stuck

#21 47 days ago

OK, off to paper block all the switches.

Quoted from newmantjn:

Paper in the switches is the test I use. You are looking for a short, not an open, so jumper won't work.
There is really nothing more I can add than has already been written here - read this small section:
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#stuck

#22 47 days ago

Can I ask for doodle bug help in this thread too? I just got it. Let me know if I can check anything on mine for you, and I have a nice manual and other paperwork. I'm trying to figure out why the tilt light comes on and stays on during gameplay. After playing a game normally, the tilt light goes off, and there is no game over light either. I'm also looking for a place to get the correct scoring wheel springs.

#23 47 days ago
Quoted from Boise_D:

Can I ask for doodle bug help in this thread too?

It would really be better to start a new thread. But check the make/break on your game over relay.

Quoted from Boise_D:

I'm also looking for a place to get the correct scoring wheel springs.

http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_1974-1975/index.html#/16/

Order from them or Pbrescource by part number

#24 41 days ago

So, tracking this down has been very frustrating. I have visually inspected all switches, papered them all and still can't find the issue.

Here is the background and my next step, is my logic sound?

- I disconnected the Jones plugs and determined that the issue only happens when I have the plug into the backbox from the playfield plugged in.
- I disconnected it and jumpered each connection individually to see if I could isolate the offender
- the 10 point relay only sticks on when I jumpered the green/black wire (dark green with black strips)
- so I assume this is the line where the issue is (which made sense, as many of the 10 point switches are on this wire)
- I mapped the wire, and it goes to the:
on green relay
on yellow relay
several playfield switches
advance unit
and the 2 slingshots near the flippers
- I don't see any switches stuck on, so I am now going to de-solder each connection one at a time and see if I can isolate the issue

Will this work, or is this a waste of time for some reason?

#25 41 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Will this work, or is this a waste of time for some reason?

When I get truly desperate, I will sometimes take this approach to finding a short. Not nearly as big a deal as it sounds.

One thing, rather than the one at a time approach, spend a little time figuring out what feeds what from where and thy to cut the circuit in half to narrow down your search. I did this with a GI circuit and found the offender pretty quickly.

Be sure to check damper blades, lugs and maybe solder boogers for bridging.

#26 41 days ago

I just saw that you posted the schematic. I had forgotten you did this.

Anyway, the G-B wire is a feed FROM the Green Relay (as you stated), the Yellow Relay (ditto) and the Pulse Relay.

Before you unsolder anything, Check the switch on each of these relays and make sure it is really open, that the lugs are not touching etc.
Note: The switches on the Yellow and Green relay are M/B switches, they should open in one direction and close in the other.

If you want to unsolder something, do those three if the visual in inconclusive. I'm about 90% sure that is where your problem lies.

Good sleuthing!!

#27 41 days ago

Have you checked the spoon switches on the pop bumpers and the under playfield switches for the sling shots? Sometimes these games take a while to figure out. Have you tired the lights out trick where you start the game in the dark looking for arching which will indicate a switch activating?

#28 41 days ago

So, I did track down which switch was causing the problem, but it turns out it may not be a switch. It is a wire that is attached to one of the bumper switches just below the left green pop bumper, see yellow arrow on the first photo. BUT, instead of the green-black wire being the culprit, when I disconnect the white wire that was also attached to the post of the switch with the green wire, the 10-point relay stops energizing (see second picture).

The white wire causing the issue runs to a light. Not what I expected. Is this related to my original problem of the GI lights not coming on (except the top left one), see the 3rd photo.

With this white wire disconnected, all the playfield scoring (bumpers, switches, etc.) works, with the exception of the green light in the kickout hole, and ball drain.

Where do I go from here?

doodle bug (2) (resized).jpg

doodle bug (1) (resized).jpg

doodle bug (3) (resized).jpg

#29 41 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

The white wire causing the issue runs to a light. Not what I expected. Is this related to my original problem of the GI lights not coming on (except the top left one), see the 3rd photo.

Here is what mine looks like. The white wires are used as jumpers. The one that goes to a light is the extension of the yellow buss. The one that goes to the green/black carries that to the other stand up (10 point) target.

From your picture, it looks like you disconnected the one attached to the green/black wire on the switch?

File_000 (2) (resized).jpeg

#30 40 days ago

Correct, I disconnected the white wire that is usually attached along with the green/black wire to that switch. When I do that, the 10 point energization ceases. So I am getting closer to the issue I believe. As I look at your photo more, I realize how much of this cluster of switches is interconnected and jumpered, and any of these switches could be the culprit. I will have to play with the other switches tonight, but at least our wiring is the same. I will see what I can figure out when I look at these closer tonight.

Quoted from newmantjn:

Here is what mine looks like. The white wires are used as jumpers. The one that goes to a light is the extension of the yellow buss. The one that goes to the green/black carries that to the other stand up (10 point) target.
From your picture, it looks like you disconnected the one attached to the green/black wire on the switch?

#31 40 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Correct, I disconnected the white wire that is usually attached along with the green/black wire to that switch. When I do that, the 10 point energization ceases.

Yep, it must be the switch that the white wire is still attached to.

#32 38 days ago

So, it was that switch in series. I looked it over, but never saw an issue. I de-soldered it, removed, even tested with a MM, but when I re-installed it, it worked.

As for the playfield lights, do I ever feel dumb...turn out every light on the playfield was burned out. I expect there was a short at some point that killed them all. So, making great progress, just a couple of small issues to track down:

1. every so often the outhole ejector won't register and the ball doesn't get sent to the trough, nor does the ball count reduce. I play around with relays and all of a sudden it will work for several games. Where should I look to track this down when it does it again?

2. When my score gets to 99,990 and the 1 light should light up, it does, but only for a second then cycles on and off, with the score motor continuously running. Again, starting point?

Thanks,

Quoted from newmantjn:

Yep, it must be the switch that the white wire is still attached to.

#33 38 days ago

For the outhole

Let's work backwards. Look at F10 on your schematic for the Ball Release Coil. This is pulled in by the Outhole Relay and Motor 4A.
Now find the Outhole Relay. It is at F13. It is pulled in by the Outhole switch, A switch on the ball count unit that opens up at Zero Balls and a switch on motor Index B.

>> If ANY of these switches are not pulling working correctly, your ball will not eject. You could shotgun them all, try to fix the easy stuff or divide and conquer.

I would clean and adjust the outhole switch, because it is easy. Also, I would do the same for the open at zero switch on the ball count unit.

Then, I would play it and see if it happens again. If it does, I would try to see if the outhole relay pulled in or not. If it didn't and your are sure of your cleaning and adjusting you just did, then it must be motor Index B. If the outhole relay did pull in, it is likely the switch in the outhole relay or motor 4A.

Regarding the 99990 problem:
The Transfer Relay is pulled in by the 10,000 relay and the ninth position in the 10000 score reel. This, in turn RUNS THE SCORE MOTOR and pulls in the 100,000 relay. When the 100,000 relay pulls in, it is supposed to open (release) the transfer relay, light the light and stay locked on. I suspect the 100,000 relay is releasing right away, due to a misadjusted lock in switch and not letting the transfer relay go. The other alternative is that the switch in the 100,000 relay that releases the tranfer relay is misadjusted. Refer to your manual for more information on switch location within the relays.

#34 38 days ago

I have a doodle bug too. I posted a youtube video when I first got it the doodle was not bugging.
» YouTube video

#35 37 days ago

You have been super helpful Newmantjn! I am still learning how to read the schematics, and having your assistance as a guide of where to start is invaluable. I will follow these up this weekend.

Quoted from newmantjn:

For the outhole
Let's work backwards. Look at F10 on your schematic for the Ball Release Coil. This is pulled in by the Outhole Relay and Motor 4A.
Now find the Outhole Relay. It is at F13. It is pulled in by the Outhole switch, A switch on the ball count unit that opens up at Zero Balls and a switch on motor Index B.
>> If ANY of these switches are not pulling working correctly, your ball will not eject. You could shotgun them all, try to fix the easy stuff or divide and conquer.
I would clean and adjust the outhole switch, because it is easy. Also, I would do the same for the open at zero switch on the ball count unit.
Then, I would play it and see if it happens again. If it does, I would try to see if the outhole relay pulled in or not. If it didn't and your are sure of your cleaning and adjusting you just did, then it must be motor Index B. If the outhole relay did pull in, it is likely the switch in the outhole relay or motor 4A.
Regarding the 99990 problem:
The Transfer Relay is pulled in by the 10,000 relay and the ninth position in the 10000 score reel. This, in turn RUNS THE SCORE MOTOR and pulls in the 100,000 relay. When the 100,000 relay pulls in, it is supposed to open (release) the transfer relay, light the light and stay locked on. I suspect the 100,000 relay is releasing right away, due to a misadjusted lock in switch and not letting the transfer relay go. The other alternative is that the switch in the 100,000 relay that releases the tranfer relay is misadjusted. Refer to your manual for more information on switch location within the relays.

#36 37 days ago
Quoted from jedi42:

You have been super helpful Newmantjn!

Thank you. Glad to help.

#37 36 days ago

Yes, you are correct again. A good lesson: the relay switches looked fine, but some cleaning and adjusting and everything worked like a charm.

Quoted from newmantjn:

Regarding the 99990 problem:
The Transfer Relay is pulled in by the 10,000 relay and the ninth position in the 10000 score reel. This, in turn RUNS THE SCORE MOTOR and pulls in the 100,000 relay. When the 100,000 relay pulls in, it is supposed to open (release) the transfer relay, light the light and stay locked on. I suspect the 100,000 relay is releasing right away, due to a misadjusted lock in switch and not letting the transfer relay go. The other alternative is that the switch in the 100,000 relay that releases the tranfer relay is misadjusted. Refer to your manual for more information on switch location within the relays.

#38 35 days ago

Glad I was able to help out with my 1200 mile long switch adjuster!

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