(Topic ID: 292959)

No-pop speaker noise eliminator for WPC

By marschner

3 years ago


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  • 60 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by marschner
  • Topic is favorited by 14 Pinsiders

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There are 60 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 3 years ago

Someone knows if a no-pop board for eliminating the loud audio pop when turning on and off wpc games (TZ and more) still exists?
Some years ago such a board was available but can´t find anything about it now.

#2 3 years ago

Never actually done it myself, but I wrote down some notes to look into this:
ebay.com link: itm

unfortunately, that's about as far as I can go...
Jeff

#3 3 years ago

If I am not mistaken, I think @harrryhoudini either has, or was working on one. I know he made one for WOZ and was going to have them available for the older games as well. Hit him up here or at Pinball Mod Company and see if it still exists. He had a thread about it here on Pinside somewhere regarding the WOZ one...

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from Grangeomatic:

Never actually done it myself, but I wrote down some notes to look into this:
ebay.com link: itm
unfortunately, that's about as far as I can go...
Jeff

I have one of these and will be testing it in my White Water this weekend, i'll report back with the results.

#5 3 years ago

Looked a little deeper.. Here is info on the old one... Not sure if it is still available? He just posted earlier this week that the project is still alive.

http://www.pinballrevolution.com/threads/wpc-speaker-pop-eliminator.4731/

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Calfdemon:

Looked a little deeper.. Here is info on the old one... Not sure if it is still available? He just posted earlier this week that the project is still alive.
http://www.pinballrevolution.com/threads/wpc-speaker-pop-eliminator.4731/

So this product/project is not dead... Just in a coma, indefinitely.

#7 3 years ago

Most of the folks that want this simply use time delay relays to break the output to the speakers. A device like this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LW15F42/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1 can be used with a time delay control relay or the blanking signal to do exactly what you are looking for.

There are no schematics and instructions that come with it, its simply a pair of switching relays controlled by either a high or low signal and can be wired to make or break connections as desired.

#8 3 years ago

Thought I'd chime in here seeing as I'm the person behind the product linked on pinball revolution.

Yes the product is not dead, i have just been swamped with other priorities over the last few years, including a career change. The last batch of pcbs I had made up appear to have an issue and just havent had enough bandwidth to devote to figuring it all out. I am also considering a small redesign when I get back to it, so we shall see how things play out later this year.

Sorry to those that have been waiting such a long time for these to be available again, hopefully it will be worth the wait once I get back to it.

D

#9 3 years ago

Menace
Thanks for the update.
Hope you get som sparetime this year

#10 3 years ago

TheOnlyest
I will look forward to hear the results

#11 3 years ago

Strange though that a "real" commercial product isn´t available for this. I guess a lot of people are annoyed about this loud pop.

#12 3 years ago

I would buy a bunch of these immediately if they were good and decently priced.

#13 3 years ago

My Getaway pops sometimes, usually when turning on, and it makes me cringe and jump every time thinking I just fried a circuit board or something. I would definitely be in on an affordable solution that fixes the issue.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from marschner:

Strange though that a "real" commercial product isn´t available for this. I guess a lot of people are annoyed about this loud pop.

I can only speak for myself on this and I don't care that there is a pop when I turn on/off the machine, this is what they have done for decades and no harm is caused by this; it's actually expected behavior and I would think the machine was broken if I flipped on the power and I didn't hear anything.

1 week later
#15 3 years ago

TheOnlyest
Dif you try the board out?

#16 3 years ago

Ordered this from Fleabay last week. Will probably take another 2 weeks to get here. I will post my results as soon as I get it up and running.
I'm using a Rottendog Driver Board and have upgraded a lot of Caps to higher values and the Speaker Buzz is a lot worse than Factory.
You get that with switch mode reg's

s-l1600 (resized).jpgs-l1600 (resized).jpg
1 month later
#17 3 years ago

Finally show up and it works a treat.
Cost $8.70.
I used the 18 VAC going to the Speaker Board. J501 pins 5 & 7 to power the Delay line.
UPC1237 Dual Channel Speaker Protection Circuit Board is just using Velcro to stay in place
IMG_2631 (resized).JPGIMG_2631 (resized).JPG

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

Finally show up and it works a treat.
Cost $8.70.
I used the 18 VAC going to the Speaker Board. J501 pins 1 & 3 to power the Delay line.
UPC1237 Dual Channel Speaker Protection Circuit Board is just using Velcro to stay in place[quoted image]

Just to confirm, this takes away the loud speaker pop on boot?
Only the two wires? Can you please show closeups of both the J501 and the board?

Also, has anyone tried this from Amazon? You set two of them for under $8? How would you wire it?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LW15F42/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1

2756F84F-1519-479E-A20F-0EAE89DEC362 (resized).jpeg2756F84F-1519-479E-A20F-0EAE89DEC362 (resized).jpeg

#19 3 years ago

SBC Global did this one. I have had this one for a few years and never installed it.

5C7C31CA-D6D2-42A6-BFBB-9C0C2EB90E87 (resized).jpeg5C7C31CA-D6D2-42A6-BFBB-9C0C2EB90E87 (resized).jpeg
#20 3 years ago

Takes 3 seconds from Switch on before the Relay comes in and that,s about half way through the Boot.
No Sound Noise on shut down as well. It's almost perfect. Quality of the Soldering on the Board was very bad.
So check that if you get one
Heaps of different seller for them just Google "UPC1237 Dual Channel Speaker Protection Circuit Board".
The one to get is the AC input. Some are DC input which I'm sure would work just as well, just need to get it from another source
Need to order a stack of other parts like Connectors & Contacts.
I can't find a double adapter for the Power, so those wires are soldered to the bottom of the Sound Board.
The Power wire I used is just a small black co-axial cable and you can see it in the Photo.

IMG_2632 (resized).JPGIMG_2632 (resized).JPG
#21 3 years ago

The trouble with a DC input version is most stock WPC Games don't like having anymore 12 VDC load.
The Rottendog Board has stacks of head room but the Williams Boards run hot with no mods

The Power is 18 VAC at Pins 5 & 7 on J501 on the Sound Board
The Relay Contacts connect inline with J104 the return Speaker Line.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

Takes 3 seconds from Switch on before the Relay comes in and that,s about half way through the Boot.
No Sound Noise on shut down as well. It's almost perfect. Quality of the Soldering on the Board was very bad.
So check that if you get one
Heaps of different seller for them just Google "UPC1237 Dual Channel Speaker Protection Circuit Board".
The one to get is the AC input. Some are DC input which I'm sure would work just as well, just need to get it from another Place
Need to order a stack of other parts like Connectors & Contacts.
I can't find a double adapter for the Power, so those wires are soldered to the bottom of the Sound Board.
The Power wire I used is just a small black co-axial cable and you can see it in the Photo.
[quoted image]

So pins 1 and 3 of J105 to the device, but what’s this about wiring something to the sound card (FYI, I have a PinSound installed)?

#23 3 years ago

J501 is on the Sound Board Sorry got the connector number incorrect. Fixed it now
You could get a DC input one and connect to the Spare Connector J503 it has 12 VDC but the Reg on the Board doesn't have a Heat Sink so you would have to see how hot it gets, and I think you might find it will still pop on shutdown

#24 3 years ago

I might just run a couple of new Tracks on the Underside of the Sound Board and use the Spare Connector J503 and make it a bit more professional than just soldering the Power wires directly to the underside of J501 like it is now. If I do that I will take a few photos with it all pulled apart.

#25 3 years ago

In my Getaway manual, J501-1 (Gray/Green) is 20VAC but J501-3 is unused/the key. Are you sure pin 3 is what you tapped into?

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

I might just run a couple of new Tracks on the Underside of the Sound Board and use the Spare Connector J503 and make it a bit more professional than just soldering the Power wires directly to the underside of J501 like it is now.

Why not just eject the pins from the connector, solder your wires on, and re-insert pins?

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

The trouble with a DC input version is most stock WPC Games don't like having anymore 12 VDC load.
The Rottendog Board has stacks of head room but the Williams Boards run hot with no mods
The Power is 18 VAC at Pins 1 & 3 on J501 on the Sound Board
The Relay Contacts connect inline with J104 the return Speaker Line.
[quoted image]

When I look up the specs on this board it is 12-24 VDC or 10-18 VAC. However, the power to J501 is 20 VAC. Will this not pose a problem?

Also, looks like your yellow (is this pin 1) goes to Left In and blue to Left Out on the board?

Sorry for all of the questions, but I'm an electronics illiterate for the most part. Maybe a wiring diagram would help?

#28 3 years ago

For anybody interested I have a solution but it's not 100% ready. It's a three board solution (allows changing boards to fit different systems such as WPC pre-DCS, WPC-DCS and WPC-95). I have tested it in my Terminator 2 and a friend's Creature from the Black Lagoon. The AC tap board needs to be made a little smaller but electrically it works. Simple plug and play and only two cables need to be made. The boards do not need to be mounted anywhere in the backbox and the entire solution is reversible (can be removed without any permanent change to the machine).

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs/page/10#post-6308140

The post is a combination of other boards. This sound solution is at the end of the post - point #5.

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

For anybody interested I have a solution but it's not 100% ready. It's a three board solution (allows changing boards to fit different systems such as WPC pre-DCS, WPC-DCS and WPC-95). I have tested it in my Terminator 2 and a friend's Creature from the Black Lagoon. The AC tap board needs to be made a little smaller but electrically it works. Simple plug and play and only two cables need to be made. The boards do not need to be mounted anywhere in the backbox and the entire solution is reversible (can be removed without any permanent change to the machine).
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs/page/10#post-6308140
The post is a combination of other boards. This sound solution is at the end of the post - point #5.

Do you have a price set yet? Will it also work with a PinSound installed?

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

For anybody interested I have a solution but it's not 100% ready. It's a three board solution (allows changing boards to fit different systems such as WPC pre-DCS, WPC-DCS and WPC-95). I have tested it in my Terminator 2 and a friend's Creature from the Black Lagoon. The AC tap board needs to be made a little smaller but electrically it works. Simple plug and play and only two cables need to be made. The boards do not need to be mounted anywhere in the backbox and the entire solution is reversible (can be removed without any permanent change to the machine).
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs/page/10#post-6308140
The post is a combination of other boards. This sound solution is at the end of the post - point #5.

Interested in ~7 when design is final if the price is right

-3
#31 3 years ago

Might be plug and play but it looks messy and it looks like a Hack when it's installed.

Each to their own I guess.
Test (resized).jpgTest (resized).jpgIMG_2631 (resized).JPGIMG_2631 (resized).JPG

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

When I look up the specs on this board it is 12-24 VDC or 10-18 VAC. However, the power to J501 is 20 VAC. Will this not pose a problem?
Also, looks like your yellow (is this pin 1) goes to Left In and blue to Left Out on the board?
Sorry for all of the questions, but I'm an electronics illiterate for the most part. Maybe a wiring diagram would help?

Both wires in and out of the Relay are Yellow Wires.
The Circuit is a simple 1/2 Wave Rectifier feeding an LM7812 able to handle 35 VDC Input Voltage. The Limiting factor in this case is the 25 Volt rated Capacitors and I plan on Changing them to 32 & 50 Volts Caps just because I can and I want it to last a lifetime.
K.I.S.S.

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

Might be plug and play but it looks messy and it looks like a Hack when it's installed.

Honestly ... my first reaction to this was "that's not really called for". I'm not trying to compete with you. If you follow my thread you'll realize that most of the stuff I do is for me. If it happens to help somebody else along the way then that's great. I learned after a career in a big corporation that I should try not to bat the bees nest and leave things alone so they go away but after thinking about this for a while I still think "that's not really called for".

Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

Each to their own I guess.

I think this is all I would have written.

For those asking about price and / or availability ... I don't have an answer for you. I have a board build list that still has outstanding items and I have a board design list with a few items. I just built my solution in between the other bigger (more important) items in my want list. I know this is close to a solution that can be used but it's not there yet.

#34 3 years ago

Its not a Hack, at least its not now Buddy and I have no plans to sell them or manufacture. None of you could afford me!
I'm an Avionics Engineer by Trade.

Here is the latest fully unhacked version for those of you who can be bothered, nah just go back to your Netflix...lol
If you want to make it then all you need to do is order the Bits from Great Plains Electronics. Just buy the 24 Pin Connectors and cut them down to length.
Details are in the Wiring Diagram
Don't forget the Contacts AWG 20 to 18 are the ones you want. If you don't have heat shrink just use Hot Glue.

The Board I bought was less than $ 8 delivered to the Door...Takes forever though.

Here is a Vid showing how well it works and how good it looks...HA..HA


Adapter (resized).JPGAdapter (resized).JPG

Wiring Diagram (resized).jpgWiring Diagram (resized).jpg

IMG_2632 (resized).JPGIMG_2632 (resized).JPGIMG_2641 (resized).JPGIMG_2641 (resized).JPG

-3
#35 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Honestly ... my first reaction to this was "that's not really called for". I'm not trying to compete with you. If you follow my thread you'll realize that most of the stuff I do is for me. If it happens to help somebody else along the way then that's great. I learned after a career in a big corporation that I should try not to bat the bees nest and leave things alone so they go away but after thinking about this for a while I still think "that's not really called for".

I think this is all I would have written.
For those asking about price and / or availability ... I don't have an answer for you. I have a board build list that still has outstanding items and I have a board design list with a few items. I just built my solution in between the other bigger (more important) items in my want list. I know this is close to a solution that can be used but it's not there yet.
It seems WH20_Buzz is providing a solution that works here and now so you should probably go with it. After all ... it's not a Hack.

The Resistors are mounted way off the Board not even a single cable tie to make it look presentable.
If you don't want people like me with attention to detail saying it "Looks like a Hack" then spend 10 minutes of your time making it so!.

You assume I'm interested in Selling this idea. You have made a poor assumption there.

#36 3 years ago

This thread just turned rather weird

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

This thread just turned rather weird

I would have to agree with You.

I am an unemployed poor Person that just wants to help People. I apologize to the People I have offended with my sloppy Prototype and the assembly of it. If Anybody is interested in another Solution please refer to my Thread for further Information or feel free to PM me. This is the last Post I will be making to this Thread as it will be drained. I am really sorry I opened this Can of Worms.

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

I would have to agree with You.
I am an unemployed poor Person that just wants to help People. I apologize to the People I have offended with my sloppy Prototype and the assembly of it. If Anybody is interested in another Solution please refer to my Thread for further Information or feel free to PM me. This is the last Post I will be making to this Thread as it will be drained. I am really sorry I opened this Can of Worms.

Yes, get your act together and make sure your prototypes are "retail ready" in future please - hahaha. All good from me, just taking the piss....

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

I would have to agree with You.
I am an unemployed poor Person that just wants to help People. I apologize to the People I have offended with my sloppy Prototype and the assembly of it. If Anybody is interested in another Solution please refer to my Thread for further Information or feel free to PM me. This is the last Post I will be making to this Thread as it will be drained. I am really sorry I opened this Can of Worms.

All the info is there. I've done all the Hard Work for free...Why don't you take what I have put up and improve on it or just Make up the full harness kits. I'm sure you would sell stacks of them. You could easy sell the whole thing ready to plug and play for lets say $60, and buy in bulk your total in Parts would be $10 each. and less than 30 minutes each to make. Thats $100 an Hour at full tilt.
Really you could get away with selling it for over $100 with the Inflation we have these days

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

Its not a Hack, at least its not now Buddy and I have no Plans to Sell them or manufacture. None of you could afford me!
I'm an Avionics Engineer by Trade.
Here is the latest fully unhacked version for those of you who can be bothered, nah just go back to your Netflix...lol
If you want to make it then all you need to do is order the Bits from Great Plains Electronics. Just buy the 24 Pin Connectors and cut them down to length.
Details are in the Wiring Diagram
Don't forget the Contacts AWG 20 to 18 are the ones you want. If you don't have heat shrink just use Hot Glue.
The Board I bought was less than $ 8 delivered to the Door...Takes forever though.
Here is a Vid showing how well it works and how good it looks...HA..HA

[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Thanks for taking the time to create and post the video and schematic - very helpful.

There is one thing I’m still unclear about. You keep referencing pins 1 and 3 counting left to right. However, in my Getaway the pins count from right to left and those are pins 7 and 5 ( as I mentioned before pin 3 is blank). I’m just trying to understand with certainty if we are referring to the same two physical pins, so can you please clarify? Maybe a closeup photo of your J501 header where I could see the silkscreen numbers on the board would answer all of my questions.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Thanks for taking the time to create and post the video and schematic - very helpful.
There is one thing I’m still unclear about. You keep referencing pins 1 and 3 counting left to right. However, in my Getaway the pins count from right to left and those are pins 7 and 5 ( as I mentioned before pin 3 is blank). I’m just trying to understand with certainty if we are referring to the same two physical pins, so can you please clarify?

Well Spotted it is 5 & 7..Thanks for the correction..I'll update previous Posts

#42 3 years ago

At least you’re know someone is paying attention to your efforts.

Seriously, thank you for doing the engineering on this and sharing with the group.

#43 3 years ago

I dig this, I'm going to give it a shot in my NBA Fastbreak. I checked in the backbox, and it looks like my A/V board is a bit different.

Best I can tell, the J504 connector would work similarly, but with the 4 pin in my case (black GND wire).

There is no J501 far as I can tell, but looks like maybe the J606 is what I need for power. Tapping into the +12V 1 pin and GND 7 pin.

Does that seem right?

Cheers!

J504J504
J504 on rightJ504 on right
J606J606
J606J606

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

Its not a Hack, at least its not now Buddy and I have no plans to sell them or manufacture. None of you could afford me!
I'm an Avionics Engineer by Trade.
Here is the latest fully unhacked version for those of you who can be bothered, nah just go back to your Netflix...lol
If you want to make it then all you need to do is order the Bits from Great Plains Electronics. Just buy the 24 Pin Connectors and cut them down to length.
Details are in the Wiring Diagram
Don't forget the Contacts AWG 20 to 18 are the ones you want. If you don't have heat shrink just use Hot Glue.
The Board I bought was less than $ 8 delivered to the Door...Takes forever though.
Here is a Vid showing how well it works and how good it looks...HA..HA

[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image]

Looks like the 1237board works fine.

That said, it hurts me watching you switch the machine on and off so quickly. I can almost feel the power supply begging you to stop!

#45 3 years ago

Im in for a plug and play kit, i have no skills to build one.

#46 3 years ago

In case anyone is looking for the $8 UPC1237 board, with fast and free shipping, here you go on AMAZON!

https://www.amazon.com/Comimark-UPC1237-Channel-Speaker-Protection/dp/B07X2JGNWG/ref=sr_1_3

#47 3 years ago

After WH20_Buzz posted all of the details I was ready to order all of the parts to make this device. Before I pulled the trigger, I thought I would test my Getaway out one more time to hear the speaker pop. To my surprise I must have cycled power 20 times and never hear a pop when powering on or off. After racking my brain for a few seconds it suddenly hit me. Within the last few weeks I had given my PinSound 1 to a friend new in the hobby and replaced it with a PinSound +. After contacting PinSound to ask them about this, they confirmed they engineered the pop protection into the newer boards. Part of me was excited, but another part of me was disappointed because I was really looking forward to making and installing one of these devices.

All of this to say, if you've recently purchased a PinSound + (or possibly even a Neo) or plan to in the near future the board has the circuitry built in to prevent power on/off speaker pop. Otherwise, WH20_Buzz 's solution seems like a great DIY project to eliminate the pop.

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

After WH20_Buzz posted all of the details I was ready to order all of the parts to make this device. Before I pulled the trigger, I thought I would text my Getaway out one more time to hear the speaker pop. To my surprise I must have cycled power 20 times and never hear a pop when powering on or off. After racking my brain for a few seconds it suddenly hit me. Within the last few weeks I had given my PinSound 1 to a friend new in the hobby and replaced it with a PinSound +. After contacting PinSound to ask them about this, they confirmed they engineered the pop protection into the newer boards. Part of me was excited, but another part of me was disappointed because I was really looking forward to making and installing one of these devices.
All of this to say, if you've recently purchased a PinSound + (or possibly even a Neo) or plan to in the near future the board has the circuitry built in to prevent power on/off speaker pop. Otherwise, WH20_Buzz 's solution seems like a great DIY project to eliminate the pop.

You would think this issue would have been the # 1 thing to address when designing a new Board from scratch. When they make a Board with a low pass Sub output Channel and reduce the insane price I would consider changing over from the Williams Board. I still prefer through Hole Boards over SMD.
Much easier to repair and maintain in the long run. Blanket change the Electro & Tant Caps with a higher rating and quality and be pretty much good for another 30 plus years

#49 3 years ago

I'd like to give this a shot. Can anyone confirm my thoughts for my NBA Fastbreak above in post #43? Thanks!

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

After WH20_Buzz posted all of the details I was ready to order all of the parts to make this device. Before I pulled the trigger, I thought I would test my Getaway out one more time to hear the speaker pop. To my surprise I must have cycled power 20 times and never hear a pop when powering on or off. After racking my brain for a few seconds it suddenly hit me. Within the last few weeks I had given my PinSound 1 to a friend new in the hobby and replaced it with a PinSound +. After contacting PinSound to ask them about this, they confirmed they engineered the pop protection into the newer boards. Part of me was excited, but another part of me was disappointed because I was really looking forward to making and installing one of these devices.
All of this to say, if you've recently purchased a PinSound + (or possibly even a Neo) or plan to in the near future the board has the circuitry built in to prevent power on/off speaker pop. Otherwise, WH20_Buzz 's solution seems like a great DIY project to eliminate the pop.

Exactly, have a Pinsound+ in my Getaway, and no pop. NBA is right next to it with the pop, just don't have the time/skill for the DIY solution.

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