(Topic ID: 205294)

No more speculation: Planetary Pinball to remake MB, BBB, TOM and CC


By jkashani

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Pinzap
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There are 993 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 20.
#101 1 year ago

I would have a hard time passing on TZr. Easy to pass on all the others mentioned. They made a bunch of TZ's because it's a great game. One of the best games ever made in fact. High priced ones do seem to sit but reasonable priced ones move in a hurry.

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#102 1 year ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I would have a hard time passing on TZr. Easy to pass on all the others mentioned. They made a bunch of TZ's because it's a great game. One of the best games ever made in fact. High priced ones do seem to sit but reasonable priced ones move in a hurry.

Most of those higher priced ones that are setting will read just like this:
Very nice TZ with minor cab fading but $2000 worth of plastic toys glued to the game. $8500 firm!

#103 1 year ago

If they do BBB. I'm sure most quantities of parts were used to make the Illinois Pinball ones.

So if they make new translites, I hope they correct the Capcom goof and use all the screens and add BANG to the translite and not miss one like Capcom did. We don't need anymore Big Bangs.

LTG : )

#104 1 year ago

Almost every TAF I play on location is on its last leg and people are still pumping coin into it. I think it would be a great seller to both collectors and routers. I would love to own a TAF that didn’t have 20k+ plays on it.

#105 1 year ago

I would love to just FIND a TAF that's not HUO or HEP restored and the owner wants $8k for it!

#106 1 year ago

Info from: Internet Pinball Database
TZ Production: 15,235 units (confirmed)
IJ Production: 12,716 units (confirmed)
TAF Production: 20,270 units (confirmed)
: I want lesser produced remade first. My (own) 'remake' timeline order (preference).
1st : MB Production: 3,361 units (confirmed) The Most fun pinball of all time. In my personal opinion.
2nd: CV Production: 2,704 units (confirmed) Needs a remake Ghosting inserts are on every one I see for sale.
3rd : BBB Production: 191 units (confirmed) If I am still Alive .

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#107 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I would love to just FIND a TAF that's not HUO or HEP restored and the owner wants $8k for it!

No kidding, decent ones getting pricey

#108 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I would love to just FIND a TAF that's not HUO or HEP restored and the owner wants $8k for it!

Good many decent condition ones around for 4800-5500..... pinside is the most expensive place for pins imo

#109 1 year ago
Quoted from pinmister:

BBB would be great but I would rather have a King Pin first

Quoted from jamieflowers:

I would be in for a Kingpin. BBB is a pretty game but not that much fun IMO.

Quoted from vireland:

Yeah, I'd be more excited by Kingpin than BBB if they're doing Capcom games.

I don't understand these statements. Both are quite rare, but at least there's a slight chance you would have the opportunity to play BBB in order to develop an opinion on game play. On the flip side, there are only nine confirmed KPs out there according to IPDB, so your likelihood of actually seeing one is very rare, not to mention playing one. How could anyone state a preference for KP without no basis to draw from?

Using this argument, how could any manufacturer remake a game that almost no one has ever played, and not have some trepidation about their sales?

#110 1 year ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I don't understand these statements. Both are quite rare, but at least there's a slight chance you would have the opportunity to play BBB in order to develop an opinion on game play.

You're assuming, and, well...

Both games have been at any number of pinball shows. As a result, I've played BBB and Kingpin and have developed the opinion that Kingpin is better. I'd be more excited to see a Kingpin remake as a result.

#111 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

You're assuming, and, well...
Both games have been at any number of pinball shows. As a result, I've played BBB and Kingpin and have developed the opinion that Kingpin is better. I'd be more excited to see a Kingpin remake as a result.

Presuming, not assuming.

You've had a chance to play both and that's great, you have an opportunity to compare.

How many of the almost 45,000 Pinsiders (not to mention hobbyists outside of Pinside) have had a chance to play one of the nine KPs; not very many I'd expect.

#112 1 year ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

Presuming, not assuming.
You've had a chance to play both and that's great, you have an opportunity to compare.
How many of the almost 45,000 Pinsiders (not including hobbyists outside of Pinside) have had a chance to play one of the nine KPs; not very many I'd expect.

I would think many of the pinsiders have been to pinball shows and both those titles have made the rounds, so probably more here have played one or both than you're presuming.

#113 1 year ago

What shows are these? I'd love to see it, but have never seen it around the US NE shows. BBB was at Pintastic last time I was there.

#114 1 year ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

What shows are these? I'd love to see it, but have never seen it around the US NE shows. BBB was at Pintastic last time I was there.

West Coast shows. Pin-a-Go-go and California Extreme. Kingpin was at PAGG again this year (you can see it on the end in this pic from the show: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-2017-pin-a-go-go-thread/page/21#post-3777402 ) , didn't see BBB there this year, and haven't made it to CAX in a few years so not sure either was there recently. They were seen a LOT more often together around the time Gene was working on BBB.

#115 1 year ago

Playing 2 maybe 3 games, one time on a BBB or a KP at a noisy show, is an horribly inefficient way to develop an opinion. And that is the real circumstances for the typical show goer. And yet, expert opinions abound.

In all of my years in this hobby and the shows I've attended, I've never played KP.

Quoted from Hammerhead:

Using this argument, how could any manufacturer remake a game that almost no one has ever played, and not have some trepidation about their sales?

You can add Magic Girl to this thought. Not even the 19 or so owners have much of an opinion.

#116 1 year ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I don't understand these statements. Both are quite rare, but at least there's a slight chance you would have the opportunity to play BBB in order to develop an opinion on game play. On the flip side, there are only nine confirmed KPs out there according to IPDB, so your likelihood of actually seeing one is very rare, not to mention playing one. How could anyone state a preference for KP without no basis to draw from?
Using this argument, how could any manufacturer remake a game that almost no one has ever played, and not have some trepidation about their sales?

Ive played on a couple different Kingpins. The game is really cool. I think that it would take some time to get sales. Unlike MMr, where basically everyone had played one before, it flew out the doors. With KP, they will have to take it to the shows to let the masses try it before they buy it. But i think in the end, it would be a great seller.

BBB to me is a unique game, with cool art. But i just dont see it being a "hit" Will they sell, sure, as good as mmr, no. I really think that the artwork, adult humor, can/will affect the buyers. Not all familys want that adult humor in the home

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#117 1 year ago

I love Kingpin, and like many here have had the opportunity to play it in a private collection for hours...its as great as they say, with fantastic dots, call outs and modes
KP would be a better choice for the hobby as a whole...(IMHO of course)

#118 1 year ago

BBB for me!

#119 1 year ago

I get the KP and BBB from our perspective but from their perspective it doesn’t seem like the safest route to take. Their first two were obvious choices which even Stevie Wonder could see would sell well, same with MB. KP and BBB aren’t exactly what I’d say are guaranteed smash hits, they might be, but then again they might not be. The collector’s view point and the manufacturer’s view point are not always going to coincide.

#120 1 year ago

This may be a dumb question but how do they develop remakes? Is there design specs or do they get a sample pin and reverse engineer it? If they have to get an original pin that might make it difficult for really rare pins. Kingpin sounds like a really cool pin but isn't there like less than 10 of them out there?

#121 1 year ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

This may be a dumb question but how do they develop remakes? Is there design specs or do they get a sample pin and reverse engineer it? If they have to get an original pin that might make it difficult for really rare pins. Kingpin sounds like a really cool pin but isn't there like less than 10 of them out there?

They have Bally Williams IP, drawings, parts specs etc.

#122 1 year ago

Could PPS re-do the wizard mode on TOM?

That would make the game a lot better for sure.

#123 1 year ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

This may be a dumb question but how do they develop remakes? Is there design specs or do they get a sample pin and reverse engineer it? If they have to get an original pin that might make it difficult for really rare pins. Kingpin sounds like a really cool pin but isn't there like less than 10 of them out there?

A Kingpin was loaned to IPB at one time to halp produce them, Im sure that another one would be able to be loaned if the need was there

#124 1 year ago

So PPS has all the rights to the old bally/williams games? Do they separately have the rights to the Capcom games or were those acquired by Bally/Williams back in the day?

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#125 1 year ago

If they can bring the prices down further then I may be interested in a remake. I still see them as priced way too high for much inferior quality.

In particular, their playfield quality is not good.

I was at Logans Arcade in Chicago yesterday and the AFMr there is pretty poor pf condition (even for the number of plays it gets there).

I like the new addition of larger and better dots with AFMr and see that as a nice selling point but still dont see the math adding up on some of the easy to obtain and cheaper titles in original format with better quality.

#126 1 year ago
Quoted from resipsa:

So PPS has all the rights to the old bally/williams games? Do they separately have the rights to the Capcom games or were those acquired by Bally/Williams back in the day?

Sounds like they DONT have any rights for Capcom, just like they dont have all the rights for B/W.

It seems the general strategy is just to start rumors that they do and then bluff with letters for C&D to people.

#127 1 year ago
Quoted from BigT:

Almost every TAF I play on location is on its last leg and people are still pumping coin into it. I think it would be a great seller to both collectors and routers. I would love to own a TAF that didn’t have 20k+ plays on it.

Ha! I'll bet any TAFs still running on location are well over 100k plays. It really says something that a 25 year old game continues to have such a strong following.

#128 1 year ago

Really hope a Kingpin remake finally happens. That would be the most exciting of the bunch. Like someone said above that is almost like a new title to the market with so few that have played it.

#129 1 year ago

I'm interested in both KP & BBB. I'm following this.

#130 1 year ago

I have not bought a NIB machine in over 20 years,but if they make MB I may have to buy another one.

#131 1 year ago

I'd like to see CC with updated code, BBB, MB, and Kingpin. I've never seen or played Kingpin before, so that would be really cool.

#132 1 year ago
Quoted from vidgameseller:

BBB to me is a unique game, with cool art. But i just dont see it being a "hit" Will they sell, sure, as good as mmr, no. I really think that the artwork, adult humor, can/will affect the buyers. Not all familys want that adult humor in the home

It's campy adult humor with double entendres that go way above an over protected childs head. There is no profanity or anything in your face. I used to watch cartoons with my daughter that also had insider parental jokes. To each their own.

#133 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

It's campy adult humor with double entendres that go way above an over protected childs head. There is no profanity or anything in your face. I used to watch cartoons with my daughter that also had insider parental jokes. To each their own.

I know some wives who don't love the tube dancer and the moaning and the "A little more to the left"... luckily not my wife tho, lol.

#134 1 year ago

I had to downvote the OP since this title is so incorrect. Nothing is confirmed, this is STILL PURELY SPECULATION!

#135 1 year ago

My MMr arrives this afternoon - so presumably, I represent a "market" for these remakes.

Here was my thinking: I'm new to the idea of pinball ownership and buying a used machine actually intimates me. I don't know how to fix them, I have never owned one, I worry about parts/service/cost to operate. A new machine makes the most sense for a first-time owner (in my case at least)

So - my solution is a NIB. Which, led me to Stern immediately. Except, I have played a number of Stern machines, and while I "like" them, I haven't fallen in love with any of them. (at least not enough to own one). They haven't proven themselves over time. Plus, I don't know about the electronics set-up (I saw a YouTube video that had me questioning them)

Then, I looked at Dialed-in and some of the new pins by other companies. Very interesting with great reviews, but also not time-proven.

So I looked at "best pinballs of all time". No surprise, there is MM and AFM right up at the top. (and MB coming in tops as well). I downloaded and played the digital versions - they were available "New" - and ... here I am - an MMr owner.

So I think the strategy of targeting low-cost/no-cost licensced products with high reviews is probably the way to go. Or was in my case, at least.

It makes complete sense to choose top-rated games that are beloved over time and will appeal to newer audiences as well as old-timers. I know both AFM and MB appeal to me.

#136 1 year ago

Less hardware means more profits when it comes to rerelease of popular machines (with high collector price tags). This trend can be seen with first two rereleases so I expect next one to follow this trend and not (wide body) machines with some of the most hardware ever put into a machine. Later perhaps but not until "lighter" machines are made.

#137 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

If they can bring the prices down further then I may be interested in a remake. I still see them as priced way too high for much inferior quality.
In particular, their playfield quality is not good.
I was at Logans Arcade in Chicago yesterday and the AFMr there is pretty poor pf condition (even for the number of plays it gets there).
I like the new addition of larger and better dots with AFMr and see that as a nice selling point but still dont see the math adding up on some of the easy to obtain and cheaper titles in original format with better quality.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. None of the new playfields manufactured really compare very well to to the better examples of 90s WMS machines, if that's what you mean ... save for the repros made by B&T Automaten ( buthamburg ). Churchill pfs (whether for Stern or the higher quality CGC ones) don't. Mirco's don't. CPR's don't. Since B&T Automaten only supply repros for existing machines, all production machines are therefore inferior by your definition.

Also, like Stern, CGC games have a big mark-up in Europe (unlike JJP & AP). So, there, sure, they are priced way too high. But in the US, their prices seem pretty fair relative to the competition. They wouldn't be selling so many and so quickly in the US market, if people felt they were not a good value proposition.

That said, they can certainly improve. At the prices they charge, I don't think it's acceptable to lay decals overlapping on the cabinet (as Stern have for years).

Anyway, depending on pricing and how much more value they add to MBr (it's been said that each subsequent title will add more), I can see it being the biggest seller of any machine next year, and by some margin, if they expand production to meet demand.

#138 1 year ago
Quoted from LFDOG:

My MMr arrives this afternoon - so presumably, I represent a "market" for these remakes.

Congrats! Its a great game..

Quoted from LFDOG:

Here was my thinking: I'm new to the idea of pinball ownership and buying a used machine actually intimates me. I don't know how to fix them, I have never owned one, I worry about parts/service/cost to operate. A new machine makes the most sense for a first-time owner (in my case at least)

Thinking is a little off. You will find that all pinball machines "break" and need to be fixed. As the saying goes "If it aint broken its not pinball" (or something like that.) Pinball has moving parts. Parts need to be replaced, adjusted etc. If you purchased a used game in working condition (obviously not a non-working game) you would find more or less similar wear pattern. Only difference might be the electronics - but see below

Quoted from LFDOG:

So - my solution is a NIB. Which, led me to Stern immediately. Except, I have played a number of Stern machines, and while I "like" them, I haven't fallen in love with any of them. (at least not enough to own one). They haven't proven themselves over time. Plus, I don't know about the electronics set-up (I saw a YouTube video that had me questioning them)

How are the electronics of a remake any "better"? In fact i would argue its worse. They certainly have not have proven themselves and from my understanding the boards are not repairable - need to be replaced. Older systems have more parts readily available as they use off the shelf components for the most part as opposed to these new boards.

Quoted from LFDOG:

Then, I looked at Dialed-in and some of the new pins by other companies. Very interesting with great reviews, but also not time-proven.

Same as above.

I am happy the idea of pinball ownership became more comfortable to you based on the remakes. thats great. But over time you may see the reason you got into the hobby may turn out to be different from what keeps you here.

#139 1 year ago

Only my dog plays TZ. We have found a good use for MB,IJ and ToM, they are great for putting crap on.

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#140 1 year ago

MBr - id buy that for a dollar! x7000

#141 1 year ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I don't understand these statements. Both are quite rare, but at least there's a slight chance you would have the opportunity to play BBB in order to develop an opinion on game play. On the flip side, there are only nine confirmed KPs out there according to IPDB, so your likelihood of actually seeing one is very rare, not to mention playing one. How could anyone state a preference for KP without no basis to draw from?
Using this argument, how could any manufacturer remake a game that almost no one has ever played, and not have some trepidation about their sales?

Whoa there... waay to much logic and reason in your post!

#142 1 year ago

CC, MB, BBB and KP are all no-brainers.

I'd think AF would be too. Yes, they made more than any other machine, but they're still out there earning, and you'll pay 5K+ for one that isn't beat into the ground.

I hope they don't use CCC software for CC personally - a little too much fart humor for my taste - but some enhancements would be cool for sure.

#143 1 year ago

I would buy a TAFr and TZr when announced! It would be great to see them with a larger display, especially with the new dots. Wouldn’t build cost go down with simplified electronics, power supply, etc.?

#144 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

I'd like to see a retro game in the mix. Fathom? EBD?

Centaur III

#145 1 year ago

TZr BoM and assembly cost might be double that (or more) of AFMr, or other narrow body low-hanging fruit. That plus there being so many, and a lot of them in good condition ... I can't see it ever happening.

Addams would be much cheaper to make ... but aside from very high end restorations and mint golds, they don't command such high prices, and are the least rare modern game by a very large margin.

I think a whole new machine based on Addams Family would be more likely.

IMO BBB will come after all the WMS titles mentioned by Rick. I think they'd have a lot more to do with code and the display, and perhaps engineering than the others. Leave the most difficult until last. That's if they even have a license for it.

#146 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

TZr BoM and assembly cost might be double or even more than that of AFMr or other narrow body low-hanging fruit. That plus there being so many, and a lot of them in good condition ... I can't see it ever happening

I could really see TZr and TAFr out selling BBBr.

#147 1 year ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

I could really see TZr and TAFr out selling BBBr.

It's difficult to tell what will be done with it, but just a fairly vanilla remake? In that case I certainly don't see BBBr selling as well as AFMr / MMr / MBr / TOMr ... I think the jury is out on how well CCr would sell too.

People are assuming CGC are only going to do remakes, too. IMO, once the low-hanging fruit are done, they'll move on to new machines. Particularly as I'm pretty sure they're paying PPS more per unit in license fees than they would for most commercial film / music franchise licenses.

#148 1 year ago

From what I have been told be very reliable sources in the Chicagoland pinball business, MB is officially the next to be announced.

#149 1 year ago

Reading everyone's thoughts has me re-thinking about buying any re-makes. I think I got caught up in the excitement of this announcement and lost my way. I'm really more interested in buying new, like Houdini or TNA or ....to be determined.

One thing you can say about these remakes is, they have helped keep market prices in check for the past few years. Can you imagine what the top tier used games would be selling for today without them?

#150 1 year ago
Quoted from PPS:

The challenge I have with IJ/TAF/TZ is that there were so many games produced ... great games nonetheless ...

Quoted from pinmister:

We had this discussion Rick in another thread and they would sell very well. Yes they made a considerable amount of them, but there are not very many nice examples left in the wild and the restores are getting too pricey. I think you would be surprised with what the mainstream would want. I know lots of high end collectors that would like a pristine example that they do not have to bother fixing all the time. Buying new under warranty is a huge plus with the Williams/Bally classics. If licensing is not an issue you should consider them.

this could actually be a win-win
- people looking for a new [classic] pin that is currently out of their price range for a QC restored one would be able to purchase one
- people looking for those unobtainium parts for restoring theirs would potentially have a new source of parts instead of flea-bay

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