Yep. I agree with this order of popularity.

1. Big Bang Bar
2. Monster Bash
3. Cirqus Voltaire
4. Tales of the Arabian Nights
5. Cactus Canyon

Why isn't scared stiff on anyone's list? That's my Shut Up And Take My Money title

Me too, but it wasn't on Rick's list....

My personal list. I'd get a BBB fer sure and probably a MB....

The only one that really matters on the remake list. And the better game between BBB and it. Whoever does it, I hope they do it right - finish out the code and colorize it.

I thought Kingpin was already being made by another company....

Any bookies taking any bets on what remake #3 will be?

A pinball machine....

Who has already played it?
Hard to say KP is a great game

I've played it. Even unfinished as it is, it's better than BBB.

Is that officially announced or just rumor? I hadn't heard that was official...

Kingpin remake would be awesome for the fans (as would BBB or CC, as many people haven't had a chance to play those either). But the business argument for doing it next is a bit weaker. Given how well MMR and AFMR have sold, MBR seems like an obvious next step, keep pumping out those beloved A-list B/W games until you've made them all, and then take a bit more risk with titles whose high cost is more reliant on rarity. Plus if they get a few more games with sales legs in the rotation, it would be less of a disaster to put out one that sells only moderately well.

So I think it's a long shot that Kingpin (or BBB or CC, for that matter) is up next. Which is a bummer, as I'd love to play any of those three on location.

Never played Kingpin, definitely very curious to try it. The first Arcade Expo I went to had 500+ pinball machines, and of all the games I played BBB was my favorite. But Kingpin really seems to get strong hype, hopefully I can try it someday.

I doubt Kingpin is up next (or even the one after that), but it should be remade next. Once people play it, I think they'll really like it, and it will be nice to have a remake with better lighting. The one at the shows has a very dark playfield.

I agree... CAX typically has both Kingpin and BBB (also BBB is at MOP in Banning). BBB is fun but i really liked playing Kingpin a lot more. The sudden death mode cracked me up.

Neither game really had any line to speak of to play, BBB at arcade expo last year was almost always open. I think this year they are going to put it more out in the open.

If there was ever a promotional opportunity for PinStadium lighting, Kingpin would be IT. Gets a lot of show attention (pretty much always being played at PinaGoGo, at least), and DESPERATELY in need of better playfield lighting.

I have. I loved it.

Did you play a fully working one ? I've often heard it's more finished than BBB was. And one game that many played, had ramp optos and maybe other things not working.

LTG : )

i am gonna buy mbr if it has the extra bells and whistles like afmr le.
bbbr
tomr
totan r
cc r
i would be in for these. glad they come out a year apart so i dont have to lay out all the cash at once.

I just assumed it wasn't complete, but maybe it just wasn't in fully working condition. Even as it was, it was a better experience than BBB.

I'm kinda hoping for CC I love the western theme and music. If the code was finished and maybe a few other niceties where added that would be awesome.

It's real, but I wouldn't hold your breath until you see games shipping, these guys haven't proven themselves yet, and stopping work on Pinball Circus to go down the Kingpin rabbit hole might not inspire confidence. I don't like the new art they're trying to do for it either.

We'll see if there's a legal fight too, it might get messy.

Put it this way, I think Kingpin is a fun game, even with software that's not 100% baked, but the entire project isn't something I'd be an early adopter on.

That's pretty much what I had heard, and jumping from one difficult project forever unfinished (Pinball Circus) into ANOTHER potentially MORE difficult project seems like a really bad idea. They'd be better off FINISHING and SHIPPING something small run like Pinball Circus before going for something even harder and more expensive.

I'd feel better about CGC doing Kingpin. Their first two machines haven't been without their issues, but at least they've proven they can DO it.

Well, they'll sell more Kingpins because it's in higher demand. Then use that to fund Circus. Seems like they're going for the easier money, which is the smart move.

That's great if you have the MONEY to MAKE more Kingpins. Do not underestimate the production costs, staff required, general manufacture know-how, and logistics of getting that many more machines out. It LOOKS better on paper to have all those potential sales, but GETTING THERE when you've NEVER DONE IT is another matter entirely. I hope it works out, but it's definitely not a "smart" move. Doing the small run Pinball Circus well and shipping it would be the smart move. Experience and reputation built and banked by doing that.

These are valid points, but please keep in mind we don't believe in funding the development of games with preorder money, and as such we haven't taken a single dime for a preorder, despite many requests to do so.

If you are at TPF, please stop by and play what we are showing, and I think you'll see why we've made the decision we have. It really is much further along than Python's Pinball Circus, and is much less complicated build and shipping prospect.
Paul

Hard to complain if you're not taking preorder money and will be accepting customer money only after they're already made and ready for delivery. Hopefully people will take good pics at TPF for those of us that cannot make it.

That makes it even WORSE unless you're backed by a billionaire benefactor or merely wealthy angel. Pretty sure the demand's there for at LEAST 500-1000 Kingpins. Unless you're doing small batch (which would cost a FORTUNE for the unique components a few hundred at a time because of low volume), you're looking at having to invest many millions up front to ramp up, buy a large amount of components to warehouse, and then ship those first 500. It just seems like a very risky proposition for a FIRST try. But prove me wrong. I totally want one.

Oh, and PLEASE improve the lighting of the playfield. The original is WAY too dark.

Spooky probably just hit 500 games total recently... and you're bagging on maximus that it's impossible to build smaller? Okay...

Read that post again. I did not say impossible. I said it's MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE and having not shipped anything ever, much more risky. I guarantee there will be more interest in Kingpin out of the gate than any pin Spooky has done, meaning that they won't have the benefit of low-volume learning like Spooky and others have had. It's straight to the deep end, which is not a great idea.

I would think BBB,KP would be last ?
I was told theres a time limit with Williams?

We'll know more after TPF, and probably more news later. I don't know if they'll build it, or have another company build it.

LTG : )

Afmr really hasn't sold a ton... le still available a year later and not alot of standards and special editions have sold from what i have heard. Mmr did ok with probably 1500 sold?

A lot of speculation from people here, and I'm going to add to Paul's reply (which really outlines our core operating principles as a company quite nicely!)

When you approach a manufacturer, one of the largest concerns is tooling costs. This isn't just the cost of the tools to make the parts, but whats the setup and tear down time that the manufacturer incurs for producing the game (like training the assembly personnel, QA checks, etc). Putting a game out like Pinball Circus was really really difficult. We worked tirelessly just to build the first prototype of it, which many of you have seen. It was on a brand new hardware platform, and I had to rewrite all the software from scratch. Paul and James had to figure out how to assemble some very complex and very unique mechanical assemblies just to get the game to work. Don't even get me started on the wireforms. That game had some of the most complex wireform assemblies of ANY pinball machine ever. You can't just walk up to a manufacturer and tell them to build it, especially without a pretty decent minimum order.

The game we've been working on now for TPF (still tirelessly) has mostly standard pinball parts in it. The BOM is much more clearly defined, and the tooling costs, assembly setup/teardown costs are likely much more reasonable for this game. That makes it a lot easier to go to manufacturers since they're already tooled up to make machines of this form factor. We then use the increased demand for this game to build out our manufacturing network, which lowers costs for us and you, which we can then leverage to do more complex games in the future.

Everyone here that claims its not a smart move doesn't have any skin in the game. We're proud of that, we've never risked any of YOUR money, its been our own money, time, etc. That is a bedrock principle in how we'll continue to operate.

Come see us at TPF, you won't be disappointed.

Back to working on code for the game...

-- Jimmy

Thank you to you, Paul, and James for making this happen. And Python's dream of Pinball Circus too.

A lot has gone into these projects.

LTG : )

Whelp, I guess it turns out that after CGC dropped out, things have taken a turn and Stern doesn't have the show to themselves for Iron Maiden after all. Exciting!

so you confirm you are working on the Kingpin remake?

http://www.circusmaximusgames.com/product/dave-christensen-kingpin-limited-edition-backglass

Run, don’t walk, away from this with your money!

A few words to remember when temptation strikes you.

Predator
Alien
Magic Girl

One very important difference. They all took money to fund the development of the games. We have not, nor will we, take preorders to fund the development of the games.

an idea of when you expect to built this Kingpin remake?

No, you put it as a situation wasn't wasn't possible... as needing angels with multi-millions behind them. To which, I pointed out an example that proved the contrary.

This doesn't make sense either... the company can choose whatever volume they like. They may risk alienating customers if the volume is too low, but you're making up doomsday scenarios vs actually having any insight into their business model.

Since this is a Planetary Pinball thread, may I kindly suggest that we move the Kingpin talk to the "welcome to the big city" thread instead?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/welcome-to-the-big-city-kidkingpin-club

Sounds great. I wish you luck, to be clear. I don't like the new art, or your choice of artist and his baggage, but as long as the original is an option who cares? I can't imagine the original wouldn't be an option at least. King Pin is a fun game, I'm a fan of it, and Mark Ritchie, more people should get to play it, hope it works.

It's just that I'm keenly aware of how hard it is to actually build pinballs, having had a front row seat to the process. It's one thing to cobble together a prototype with parts borrowed from Steve, it's another to go into production. The legal waters with the Capcom games are also very murky.

I think people have a right to be cautious these days, that's all. In general, not because of anything shady about you guys.

I don't see that thread or know what it is, would help to link it, since it's not on the front page after checking. But this isn't an official Planetary thread, I don't see any reason why these multiple discussions shouldn't co-mingle. It's all relevant to the world of remakes. The murky Capcom waters apply just as much to Planetary and Big Bang Bar. It's not at all clear that Gene actually had any rights to sell on that one. Rick seems to have indicated that he can do it, no idea what that really means.

IIRC, Gene got temporary rights to build and sell BBB when he bought the surplus parts from Capcom. Those rights have since reverted back to Capcom, and I assume they'd license them again....for the right price.

So long as they're not taking any money from a buyer until that buyer's machine is fully assembled and ready to ship, seems like no one has anything to complain about. In that scenario the financials, licensing, and logistics are entirely their problem, not ours, which is what we all say we want.

If they plan to ask for money after the game is designed and prototyped but before production machines are built, though, that's a totally different story as we've seen with several rounds of failed or potentially failed games which made it through design and even got a few games shipped before things fell apart. If that's the plan, it then seems totally fair for people to want concrete details about their financing, manufacturing capacity, licensing status, and business plan.

Re: the art package, I don't know anything about Dave Christensen or any "baggage" he may have, but I also like the original back glass better. Hopefully that will be available to buyers if they choose, having an "original" package would be key to attracting buyers on a project like this.

You might at least wait until they announce the game, what's going to happen, who is going to build it.

And they aren't taking any money.

LTG : )

The story I heard, from a good source but grain of salt, is that Gene had a handshake deal at most, and no one from Capcom gave a crap really. I think the fact that he had existing parts helped too, but I dunno if that's really relevant. I don't think Gene had anything that he could transfer to Planetary. I imagine Rick is too smart to just build Big Bang Bar out of the blue, and he's hinted that he could do it multiple times publicly and privately, but I'd personally want assurances that the legal stuff was free and clear from anyone doing Capcom games before I bought. Should be easy to just say so if it's aboveboard.

Not saying Capcom would come repo your game or anything mind you. Just that we've seen what happens before. TBL had a great prototype, lots of promises about manufacturing, and then the license stuff changed, the manufacturer turned out to not be so awesome, it's just a tricky business. Heighway had their own factory, were shipping a game, did the Bacardi thing, plenty of good signs. Enough to get me on board, that's for sure. Then look at how it's gone.

Frankly more credit should be given to this AFM remake, it's gone pretty damn smooth all things considered. Maybe some issues with the orange or a few defective playfields or whatever, but they're making games pretty drama free and that's no small thing.

Ugly ties to white supremacy. And no, I'm not just talking about the Mata Hari dagger story, though it's more interesting with that context I guess, since it made zero historical sense on the game.

Come on Pinball Circus !!

Citation? That's a very harsh accusation, and I'm not finding anything to support it.