(Topic ID: 139317)

no more service rails


By JDD

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 97 posts
  • 53 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by sturner
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    image.jpg
    image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    shocked.jpeg
    yugo.jpg
    20150919_092220.jpg

    There are 97 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 4 years ago

    Why doesn't someone copy pinball 2000 for the playfield support design? You can prop it up for quick service, flip it all the way up, or simply pull it all the way out and pull a couple connectors and work on the whole thing on your bench. It literally can be completely removed from the machine in 30 seconds. It is a far superior design to anything out there.

    #52 4 years ago
    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    Why doesn't someone copy pinball 2000 for the playfield support design? You can prop it up for quick service, flip it all the way up, or simply pull it all the way out and pull a couple connectors and work on the whole thing on your bench. It literally can be completely removed from the machine in 30 seconds. It is a far superior design to anything out there.

    Because that would be to logical. I hate that metal on metal squeel when you slide the pf in and out.

    #53 4 years ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Because that would be to logical. I hate that metal on metal squeel when you slide the pf in and out.

    And, as I recall from my past reading, all those aspects were good enough for Williams to file and be granted patents on them. Not sure exactly when the majority of the P2K patents run out (pretty soon now) but maybe someone will.

    However, if Stern doesn't want to make a couple of metal bars they already have tooling for, I don't think they are going to want to jig up to make a different style when they have indicated (by their actions), that Pegs are all the buyers will get now.

    #54 4 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    He hates the pegs so much (rails are what, $45?), he is going to spend $3K more for other companies pinball machines? Or just not buy pins all together?

    Not calling you a Stern apologist but you are defending BS tactics...Let me remind you that that the reason the GoT premium was yanked was because of the blow back by us Pinside over the art, second, the reason The Hobbit pf and cabinet is cool is again the result of this small community letting the manufacturer know what we think of their final product. Shall I continue? the double clear coat on the standard MMr is also the result of us raising our collective voices over it. The hand drawn art on MET was instigated by Pinside threads. You know what else is the result of this incubator? The MMr 8k price tag, because some pinsiders decided to post they were OK to pay 8K for it over and over again. So it's all good that you like the cheap substitution going on here, but some us are not giving Stern a Pass.

    #55 4 years ago

    Again, it continues to amaze me how many people can't wait to pluck down $8k on any new machine Stern makes only to gripe about it 3 weeks later and then turn around and do it again on the next machine. I like Stern machines just fine, but there is no way that I will ever pay $8K+ for one of their machines. The Pro, Premium, LE thing bothers me. I can maybe understand a simple model for arcades for simple maintenance and play, but 3-4 different models and prices from $5-$8.5k for essentially the same machine is crazy. They need serious competition from an entity that can put out more than 100 machines every 3 months.

    -1
    #56 4 years ago
    Quoted from swanng:

    I guess there are some advantages to not owning a Stern machine, then.

    Yea like you can be stuck in the 1990's and pretend the millennium never hit. Congrats

    #57 4 years ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Didn't anyone ever show you how to slide the pf back in with rails without the need to slam it in? All you do is push down on the rails once they are past the point where they are being held on the lock bar receiver, the pf slides right in. Can someone find the vid. on how it's done, I can't find it.

    I'd really like to see this video. I have the stock pegs on my X-Men and am tall enough that I can just lift up the playfield by the back and front and the same time, but it just doesn't seem like it's the right way to do it. Opening and closing my Judge Dredd is a breeze. It's like the difference between a budget and a luxury vehicle. There is no comparison.

    #58 4 years ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Didn't anyone ever show you how to slide the pf back in with rails without the need to slam it in? All you do is push down on the rails once they are past the point where they are being held on the lock bar receiver, the pf slides right in. Can someone find the vid. on how it's done, I can't find it.

    It is undoubtedly easier with the rails than the pegs. You are correct that with the rails there is no need to slam the playfield in. But those pegs suck on so many levels.

    #59 4 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    This would be like Ford, Chrysler or GM no longer putting a bracket under the hood of new vehicles to support your hood while you or a mechanic is working on the engine.

    Newsflash, many cars for the last 30 or so years use hood shocks that lose their charge so the hood can fall on your head. Assholes!

    #60 4 years ago
    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    Again, it continues to amaze me how many people can't wait to pluck down $8k on any new machine Stern makes only to gripe about it 3 weeks later and then turn around and do it again on the next machine. I like Stern machines just fine, but there is no way that I will ever pay $8K+ for one of their machines. The Pro, Premium, LE thing bothers me. I can maybe understand a simple model for arcades for simple maintenance and play, but 3-4 different models and prices from $5-$8.5k for essentially the same machine is crazy. They need serious competition from an entity that can put out more than 100 machines every 3 months.

    That's great but there are no sterns for 8k nib from distributors. Point invalid.

    -2
    #61 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Newsflash, many cars for the last 30 or so years use hood shocks that lose their charge so the hood can fall on your head. Assholes!

    Actually, the majority of cars have prop rods and have had so for about 30 years. The ones that do have shocks can easily be changed for about $20. If it falls on your head you are not smart enough to work on what is under the hood since you are not smart enough to even maintain the hood.

    #62 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    That's great but there are no sterns for 8k nib from distributors. Point invalid.

    Come to NZ Flank, Our Dist is charging 10k US for GoTLE

    #63 4 years ago
    Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

    Come to NZ Flank, Our Dist is charging 10k US for GoTLE

    I'm enjoying my strong U.S. Dollar so I'll pass

    #64 4 years ago

    Stern is going to make GoT, the pin, it will have more features than GoT Pro and still be only $3000.

    I will quote Teek on this: SEND MONEY NOW!*

    *future cost cutting measures shall be retroactively implemented into present models.

    That is all.

    #65 4 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    So the JJP and Heighway pins that are $4600 delivered still have rails instead of pegs?

    Poor photo but the Heighway ones seem built like a tank. I've seen them slide the playfield out of the cab and drop it a few inches onto to the floor on the rails. Held up well

    // Error: Image 454247 not found //

    Edit. Check out 40 seconds into the clip

    image.jpeg

    #66 4 years ago
    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    If it falls on your head you are not smart enough to work on what is under the hood since you are not smart enough to even maintain the hood.

    So are you saying on every car that has hood shocks you should carry a stick to prop the hood up just in case?

    I don't believe any car comes with a maintenance schedule of when to replace them. Or should we just put new ones on every six months?

    #67 4 years ago

    Maybe Stern can start installing these on every model. I think the guy that invented these should have one rammed up his ass.

    shocked.jpeg

    #68 4 years ago

    Found a better photo

    image.jpeg

    #69 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    So are you saying on every car that has hood shocks you should carry a stick to prop the hood up just in case?
    I don't believe any car comes with a maintenance schedule of when to replace them. Or should we just put new ones on every six months?

    They fail slowly. When you witness them not simply lifting the hood open promptly replace them. If you wait to replace them until they are flat dead, then yes, carry a stick. Preventive maintenance pays dividends. Like I said, a majority of the cars have prop rods.

    #70 4 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    He hates the pegs so much (rails are what, $45?), he is going to spend $3K more for other companies pinball machines? Or just not buy pins all together?

    How much do a set of balls cost? Maybe stern should just stop putting balls in a new machine. Do we need any lighting? that's not that expensive to pick up ourselves lets cut that out too. Legs? You can buy them cheaply after market stern can strip those out too. Just because it's cheap to pick something up yourself doesn't mean it's not an insult to the buyer to leave them out.

    #71 4 years ago
    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    When you witness them not simply lifting the hood open promptly replace them.

    I open 15 to 20 hoods a day and have been for over 30 years and I am yet to see those have enough power to open the hood by themselves. They are there to hold it open. So sometimes they do and some times they don't. And other times the hood stays open for a while and then suddenly drops. I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them as I have had the hood come down on my head and customers rarely care to replace them. They are also used to hold lift gates open and I have seen them give out while a lady was loading groceries. BAD DESIGN PERIOD!!!!

    #72 4 years ago

    Mine open the hood by themselves I was impressed the first time I opened the hood. Oh, can we call them "bonnets" from now on?

    #73 4 years ago

    The hood that fell on my head was on a Camaro and it was one heavy hood.

    #74 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I open 15 to 20 hoods a day and have been for over 30 years and I am yet to see those have enough power to open the hood by themselves. They are there to hold it open. So sometimes they do and some times they don't. And other times the hood stays open for a while and then suddenly drops. I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them as I have had the hood come down on my head and customers rarely care to replace them. They are also used to hold lift gates open and I have seen them give out while a lady was loading groceries. BAD DESIGN PERIOD!!!!

    You may want to replace the shocks on the 20 hoods you open every day. I open about 250 a week and about 10% fail and those 10% are cars older than 5 years. I took a video for you:

    #75 4 years ago

    Failure rate on most manufacturers hood prop rods are very minimal. I should know. I open at least 15+ hoods a day. At least.

    Most cars now are being kept longer and are over 8 years old.

    Btw, why the f*ck are we discussing these??!?!

    #76 4 years ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Btw, why the f*ck are we discussing these??!?!

    To give Stern a better idea how to hold the playfield up.

    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    I took a video for you:

    Nice! But that is a brand new vehicle. Older models did not open themselves and those are what I do inspections on. Any that are marginal I break out the vice grips and clamp them on.

    #77 4 years ago

    This thread has me thinking -- $55 for a set of service rails seems to be expensive relative to the cost of material. Does anyone have any ideas for a design for a set that can be built using parts from Home Depot/Ace Hardware? The BOM of the playfield rotissery is around $80 and has a lot more hardware than service rails.

    #78 4 years ago

    I don't know... Maybe on newer cars, I guess? I haven't worked on cars in 12 years, but when I did we always kept some vise-grips around to clamp on the shocks so the hoods wouldn't fall back down. My last job was at a Ford dealership. (insert Ford joke here)

    #79 4 years ago

    I open 2 hoods twice a year for oil changes, bitches!

    #80 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    To give Stern a better idea how to hold the playfield up.

    Nice! But that is a brand new vehicle. Older models did not open themselves and those are what I do inspections on. Any that are marginal I break out the vice grips and clamp them on.

    The vehicle is 2 years and 1 month old with 21k miles. Yes, after 4-5 years you have to replace them. You also have to change your oil, air filter, brakes, plugs, wires, fuel filter, transmission fluid, and eventually MAP, MAF, EGR, TPS, coil packs, fuel injectors, etc. If you are using vice clamps to hold the hood open you might want to replace the failed item just like anything else defective. I do the same with my pins. They operate 100% just like from the factory or they do not get played until they do. My cars are the same way. I don't like rigged stuff.

    #81 4 years ago
    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    If you are using vice clamps to hold the hood open you might want to replace the failed item just like anything else defective.

    The people that own these shitboxes don't open their hoods so they don't care. All I'm saying is the hoods can be open and suddenly drop. Is that a safe design to somebody that is not prepared?

    #82 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    The hood that fell on my head was on a Camaro and it was one heavy hood.

    Well...that explains a lot.

    #83 4 years ago
    Quoted from yzfguy:

    I open 2 hoods twice a year for oil changes, bitches!

    I pay for oil changes. So...you know...no hoods for me, thanks.

    #84 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Well...that explains a lot.

    My head took way more of a beating than that hood could dish out during my 30 years working on peoples junk. Did you hear that? Yes, ALL cars are junk!

    Edit- not sure that came out right.

    #85 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    ALL cars are junk!

    But some junk is more fun to drive then other junk.

    #86 4 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Let me remind you that that the reason the GoT premium was yanked

    Where did this info come from? Does anyone else know this to be true? I find it hard to believe Stern is only going to make 700 upper playfields for GOT....

    #87 4 years ago
    Quoted from Charliew65:

    Where did this info come from? Does anyone else know this to be true? I find it hard to believe Stern is only going to make 700 upper playfields for GOT....

    I meant yanked off their website to rework the cab art not cutting out the premium line.

    #88 4 years ago

    They certainly have taken the cheap way out. But, this is also an opportunity for someone to make a mod and sell it. For every problem there is a solution. I'll bet someone is brain storming one right now.

    #89 4 years ago
    Quoted from Karetaker:

    They certainly have taken the cheap way out. But, this is also an opportunity for someone to make a mod and sell it. For every problem there is a solution. I'll bet someone is brain storming one right now.

    Sure Stern is working on it. If not Pinball Life is there to the rescue.

    #90 4 years ago
    Quoted from drinkduffbeers:

    Found a better photo

    image.jpeg

    Andrew played it; He likes it!!!!

    #91 4 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Let me remind you that that the reason the GoT premium was yanked was because of the blow back by us Pinside over the art,

    I never saw the art for the premium, only the LE and Pro. Do you have a link for it? I'd like to see it.

    Quoted from kvan99:

    Not calling you a Stern apologist but you are defending BS tactics

    I don't think I'm trying to defend anything. I just think being upset about Stern removing the service rails off of their machines is kind of mountain/mole hill situation. I have games on route, I probably open the hood a lot more than home users, and I've never had an issue where I've decried the lack of rails.

    Quoted from pinmanguy:

    How much do a set of balls cost? Maybe stern should just stop putting balls in a new machine.

    I've never used any of the balls that come with the games. Just use the shiny balls from PBL. And I think you used my quote out of context. I was really asking the poster if the operator he knows refuses to buy Stern games because of the lack of service rails, and instead buys games from Stern's competition. Or has he just stopped buying pinballs for his route altogether. Because if he refuses to buy Stern's because of the lack of service rails, and instead buys from the competition (who's games cost thousands more than a Stern Pro) when the cost of rails are $45.

    Sorry if the question I was asking was obtuse.

    #92 4 years ago

    It was briefly on the stern website but it's been removed. Maybe it was an LE image used as a placeholder. I can only speak about my experience...I've have had major issues with the lack of service rails on my games, a couple of them fell back into the cabinet and damaged the edge of the cab where the pf landed on it. Also some of the areas cannot be reached by flipping up the pf, for example the lights or screws on the back of the pf wall, when you flip up the pf there is no clearance to work behind the backboard, only solution is pulling the pf out like OP's pic in the first post.

    #93 4 years ago

    Anybody save any screenshots from when it was up? I missed it. Would love to see what they had up there.

    #94 4 years ago

    The pegs remind of the stands I believe gottlieb used in the 80s. I think my monte carol had those. Hated them ended up propping it on the slingshots brackets to lockdown. The stands didn't move the pf out enough.
    Nothing directly at Home Depot, but with conduit a bender and hammer to flatten the ends one could build a sweet full pf rails.

    Lastly the easiest way to never finish a discussion is to not actually talk about the original problem. Some hoods have springs to hold up the hood once up. Gen 2 Camaro 50s Chevy trucks.

    Fortytwo

    #95 4 years ago

    Hey look!!
    A Duck!!
    I wonder if it has a prop rod.
    image.jpg

    #96 4 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    Am I the only one who always puts the play field all the way up to service something underneath? I really never use the pegs, or the slide rails for that matter. I hate crouching and trying to solder something.
    And I just ram the playfield back over the hump. Never had an issue.

    Most of my maintenance tends to be on the top of the playfield, thus service rails are used more than flipping it up. It's also a little easier to do flipper maintenance with the playfield slid forward than trying to reach them them 5' up in the air in a row of games you can't fit beside. For all other under-playfield maintenance it needs to be flippe dup.

    #97 4 years ago

    I prefer the rails, especially the B/W version. But if this is what they have to do to keep turning out games I'm fine with some cost cutting moves.

    I also kind of like the clips for the lockdown bar. It feels more stable and removes a little weight.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 19.95
    From: $ 149.10
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    PinWoofer
    From: $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Music City Pinball
    $ 29.95
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 46.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 30.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Metal-Mods
    $ 54.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lermods
    $ 114.00
    Lighting - Backbox
    The MOD Couple
    $ 6,995.00
    Pinball Machine
    Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
    $ 6.95
    $ 45.50
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 45.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    $ 47.00
    $ 15.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Metal-Mods
    $ 209.99
    $ 3.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Doc's Pinball Shop
    $ 36.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    $ 11.95
    $ 109.00
    Cabinet Parts
    Tilted Pinball
    $ 9,500.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    $ 79.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    There are 97 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside