Why can't Stern install them (for $40 extra) and call it pro-plus model?

Another step, and cost along the production line. Just like PPS offering too many trim options.

They I think are on LE's? But the pro's need them aftermarket along with armor that covers the flipper buttons. If we can keep nib pro pricing under 5k I'm fine with it.

Starting with GoT all models have the latches for the lock bar mechanism. So it goes to understand the service rails will go next for all models.

That sucks! I like the old style lock down bar mech

Those latches work a lot better. I like them. I don't think this means the rails are next. The legs are a definite down grade.

I agree. As odd and as much as I hated them at first. The old latch method ALWAYS is off, or doesn't go back right and is a fight to get it in.

Love the latches I do. The legs have already been thinned just like the habitrails and the wire guages.

I like the latches too.

Breaking news.

Latches were standard in the arcade industry since video games hit it big. Pinball was really late to adapt to the better idea.

On video games they make it easier to kick the control panel off. Not so easy on a pinball lockdown bar.

LTG : )™

I had an ironman where the latch had to be forced past the playfield on one side. They fucking suck!

Stern needs to wake up, stop being so damn cheap and include service rails on pros as they are charging nearly $5k for a pinball machine of all things. This would be like Ford, Chrysler or GM no longer putting a bracket under the hood of new vehicles to support your hood while you or a mechanic is working on the engine. Cuts like this by Stern are ridiculous. The new service rail design on premiums / LE has them being much more lower profile making clearance for working under a machine even less. Maybe that saved them $1 or $2 a game...on a pin they are charging $6500-$8k for. Again, ridiculous.

I do like the pro lock down bar latch design. Honestly I think it's better then the typical lock down bar mech.

I agree that this shit is ridiculous. Low blow from Stern. I hate it and I'm a self proclaimed Stern fan boy. These rails cost next to nothing to produce. I was talking to an operator recently and he said he wouldn't buy and more Sterns because of those. The straw that broke the camel's back.

I will add though. I like the newer lock down bar latch. It keeps it in place better. No side to side movement.

So is it true Stern has gone to thinner gauge metal for the legs? Some of the later games sure seem wobbly IMO.

These from Pinball Life work GREAT on the Pro @ $55.
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1956

I also just replaced the factory ones on our new KISS-LE, while I love the new design with Rubber Bumpers on the bottom where it sets on the Lockdown Bar so it can't scratch the Cabinets painted wood, there is no Freaking way to get the PF BACK into the Cabinet without SLAMMING THE CRAP out of the PF into the Cabinet to get it over the rail "bumps" or "lifting up" the rear of the PF to clear said "Bumps" to slide it all the way back into the Cabinet.

WTF is going on with Sterns Designers - is NO ONE there Testing/Using these "new" changes before they implement them ???

Good enough can always be made cheaper. Then cheaper than that, then elimated, and cheapened even more.

btw, prices will be going up another $200-$500, as the cost of designing them cheaper has risen. That is all.

They can't have more than 2k in a pro model to produce. Especially with the newer spike system with 75% less wire and electronics.

And yet, people keep buying Stern machines.

As long as emotion outpaces logic, Stern will win.

They produce Ghostbusters, and there will be ALL SORTS of excuses as to why "I just couldn't help it...." -____-

What is the big deal? No pins had service rails from the '30's to the mid '80's. When you needed to get at something that the "prop rod" wasn't good enough to allow; you stood the playfield all the way up against the backbox. And there was no fancy hinge or latching rail system. Just some wood rails attached to the inner cabinet.

If you think about all of the cost cutting it's enough to piss you off, first off was the backboard lights replaced with a fluorescent light, the other was the service rails, then came the lockdown bar and the infernal plastic apron. After came the metal head and lastly the power button relocation. I don't like any of these changes, I rather pay a little more to have the original stuff back. How much does all of this cheapening tactics save? I bet it's around 200 hundred bucks in total. If they put the crap back and give us an option 99% of us will gladly pay the upcharge. Also there will come a time when the price point will make DP, HW and JJP even competitors when you factor in all the standard stuff in those games. So far I've passed on two NIBs TWD and GoT due to the cost cutting sabotage (Floating head in the barn, no upper PF) so I wonder if they'll get the picture soon.

We didn't have dot matrix displays, stereo sound, deep rulesets, or LEDs back then either. Are you suggesting Stern should feel free to cut that stuff out as well to pad the profits?

I'm kind of surprised to hear all of the love for the latch system for lockdown bars.

Man, I just don't dig that system at all. It always takes me longer to do (on AND off), and I seem to mess up my knuckles in the process.

Maybe I'm just clumsy...

Pete

I have the latch bar on my ACDC LED Pro. I just leave the latches loose so all I have to do is pull the bar straight up and out. No opening and shutting the coin door, no unlatching and latching the latches. Just pull straight up and out, remove glass, do work. When done, reload glass, drop bar straight down. Never have to lock/unlock/open/close coindoor.

Honestly, at first, I hated the latching bar, but now, I hope they never go back to the old B/W design.

I guess there are some advantages to not owning a Stern machine, then.

You don't actually point out anything good in older or newer designs... Stern markets their Pro to operators then pulls out the service rails, doesn't include a prop rod, and there is nothing fancy about the hinging still requiring operators to go to the side of a game to lift the back to slide it in. Older games with slides aren't much better.... its far too easy to get the playfield crooked and scratch up the inside of the cabinet. Decades upon decades of pinball and this is the crap we still have to deal with.

yugo.jpg

I've always put a few pieces of beer seal on the lockdown bar where the side rails go under and it eliminates any wiggle

Wherever we go, you go.

I was vilified for having the audacity to make such a wild accusation...but nobody stepped up to weigh some current stern legs against vintage legs or even circa 2K legs.

Don't give Stern any ideas! Might as well suggest getting rid of ramps next. Hey there were none of those in pins in the 30's. Hmmmm, what else can we get rid of?

Seriously though these are $5k luxury items that don't compare to the $3500 more feature loaded games (with service rails!) that Stern was making 10 years ago. This is cost cutting by Stern at its worst. At today's NIB prices Stern games should be just as loaded / feature packed if not more then the ones they were making 10 years ago...

Why does a nearly 10 year old POTC have far more in it then any Stern pro today yet it's original cost was at least $1k less?

The real cost savings will be to do away with the flippers.

Yea they weren't selling half as many pins 10 or so years ago when they made full featured pins with everything for under 4k . Now they are selling pretty dam well and every game we lose a few more things it seems ? You would think it would be the other way around since they are selling more now but I guess as long as people keep buying them y should they cut profits? They will keep pushing the bar to what they can get away with before they start losing business. I mean can you blame them for not wanting to make as much as possible , after all it is a business ? I think its getting to the point now tho that they need to change something . I for one wont buy any more nib unless something changes .

In life, there is a principle:

"Just because you can, does not mean you should."

They'll figure it out when the community as a whole (WAY bigger than Pinside) tells them to keep their overpriced products.

Yeah, I remember that movie:

Hated the pegs on my met pro. Added service rails. All is better

I like the latched lock down bar better.

I have two machines a ST Pro & Met Pro with the latches on the lock bar and much prefer that system. No adjustments necessary, it's quick and easy and the lock bar doesn't move once latched. The service pegs for the playfield are another story, I absolutely despise those. Give us the service rails so we can properly clean and maintain our games. The flimsy metal on the legs suck too as does the location of the power switch on the new games, really how much would it cost in wire to put it back where it belongs? Now with GoT pro they completely take out the upper playfield essentially making the pro a different game all together. And I won't even get into the crappy artwork...

So they did this about 4 years ago. I doubt the pegs have actually lost a single sale. People use them as an excuse for not buying them, but that is really an overall impression of cheapness, not the pegs. They changed it, but I still bought Tron. I helped confirm it was a good cost reduction for Stern by buying games.

Back then it was pegs, now it is completely removing upper playfields in the Pro model. If that sells they are probably testing making ramps out of soda bottles from the break room.

I know for a fact that the gauge of the steel on LE games has never changed.

Am I the only one who always puts the play field all the way up to service something underneath? I really never use the pegs, or the slide rails for that matter. I hate crouching and trying to solder something.

And I just ram the playfield back over the hump. Never had an issue.

They are $5K commercial money making fun things. Drop a dollar in one sometime.

I still don't understand this complaint. I'm 5'5", and I have no issue turning the game on or off. Some of the waitresses at my location are shorter, and they have no issues either. Is it just that people don't like any changes?

He hates the pegs so much (rails are what, $45?), he is going to spend $3K more for other companies pinball machines? Or just not buy pins all together?

Pegs are awesome. Who needs rails or even hinges for that matter. Just grab hold of those power pegs and pull until the whole playfield drops into the cabinet. To put back in, you get a nice little workout lifting and shoving because Stern knows you drink too much beer and could loose a few pounds.

The old numeric displays do have a certain nostalgic quality...

Where did they relocate the power switch? (sorry, I haven't been around a new machine lately).

Under the bottom of the backbox on the right side.

Didn't anyone ever show you how to slide the pf back in with rails without the need to slam it in? All you do is push down on the rails once they are past the point where they are being held on the lock bar receiver, the pf slides right in. Can someone find the vid. on how it's done, I can't find it.

So the JJP and Heighway pins that are $4600 delivered still have rails instead of pegs?

<blockquote cite="#2694402
I still don't understand this complaint. I'm 5'5", and I have no issue turning the game on or off. Some of the waitresses at my location are shorter, and they have no issues either. Is it just that people don't like any changes?

Maybe more difficult if games are side by side in a tight lineup?

That's how my pins are set up at location. No issue leaning to turn on or off.