(Topic ID: 112730)

No money down, No risk, No obligation - Reserve your P3 today!


By gstellenberg

5 years ago



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  • 106 posts
  • 47 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Zitt
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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#51 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Look. You don't like this - fine.
But really; Gerry's being upfront unlike the countless other "leaders" in the pinball world.
The problem is that investors only look at pure numbers; nothing else.
If I went in with a handful of people; and asked for money those investors would LOL.
The simple fact is sometimes you just have to take a risk - like I'm doing with my mods to see how it goes. Gerry and his team have done that in spades. Why is it so damn hard for the pinside "organism" to understand and support the good players in a market?
It's clear to me that your 8 word sentence is fraught with ignorance. It's clear you aren't investing in anything. When you have something constructive to add; give it a shot.</

The Multimorphic concept is awesome but this business plan is rubbing me the wrong way.
My reasons:
It's too risky for their "investors"/profiteers but not me?

On an arbitrary date they will send me a bill, not for 1k or 2k but for the full amount, and regardless of what they say it will be minimum one year before I see game.

And the biggest non-plus - If I sign-up now, spend 10K, I get a T- shirt in a couple years?
Why not send everyone who signs-up, with no money down, blah, blah, a free T-shirt? Is their business model and finances so shakey they can't risk 1k on promotional gear?

#52 5 years ago
Quoted from mattster:

On an arbitrary date they will send me a bill, not for 1k or 2k but for the full amount, and regardless of what they say it will be minimum one year before I see game.
And the biggest non-plus - If I sign-up now, spend 10K, I get a T- shirt in a couple years?
Why not send everyone who signs-up, with no money down, blah, blah, a free T-shirt? Is their business model and finances so shakey they can't risk 1k on promotional gear?

Are you not understanding the proposition?

#53 5 years ago
Quoted from mattster:

If your "investors" won't invest why would I???

Nobody is asking you to invest. They're asking if you're interested in a game enough that you'd be willing to put your name on a list of potential buyers for when it's done.

-2
#54 5 years ago
Quoted from btw75:

Are you not understanding the proposition?

Of course. It's simple enough- sign-up as many people as possible then send them a bill for $10,000.
They put a lot of thought into an incentive scheme but not a word about manufacturing, build time, or refunds.

#55 5 years ago

ummm...

...nevermind...

#56 5 years ago
Quoted from mattster:

Of course. It's simple enough- sign-up as many people as possible then send them a bill for $10,000.
They put a lot of thought into an incentive scheme but not a word about manufacturing, build time, or refunds.

What is there to refund? It is 100% clear as day stated in the contract that if you don't like it, you can cancel at any time, and since you didn't pay a dime, there is nothing to refund. It even states that if you sign up and do absolutely nothing, they will send you an invoice, and if you do not pay, your order is automatically cancelled after 15 days.

Simple, when they are ready to build, you pay or you don't. Not a dime until then.

What about that are you not understanding?

As for manufacturing and build time, would you prefer that Gerry just give you dates he is unsure about at this point? He's being pretty straightforward that those details are in the process of being worked out, and gives an estimate of Q3 2015 on the reservation form, but if you want him to promise to exact dates and times right now then this company is not for you.

I really for the life of me can't understand what you are so upset about. Seriously, if you don't like the platform, don't fill out the obligation-free zero-cost reservation form.

#57 5 years ago

This is the first time ive seen this and ive got to say, its amazing!

If it weren't for the $10k pricetag, id be all over this. Perhaps some more options are necessary here? Like maybe sans cabinet (for those of us who dont mind a little assembly and already have a cabinet to use or wish to get their own cabinet)?
Or maybe a raspberry pi option to keep costs down? Or something with a modular CPU, meaning there is one control board that could be run by different CPUs?

EDIT: After browsing the community forums i found the PROC, which i guess is similar to what i was asking about??? Have to do some more reading.

This is the first new pinball development i am truly excited about!!!!!! ('cept for the price)

#58 5 years ago

Thanks to everybody who's already sent in a form. We appreciate your support.

FYI - I just sent out an email with more of the thought process behind this offer:

In response to yesterday's announcement of our no money down, no risk pre-order, I've received quite a few requests for clarification. Many want to know if they should sign up just to indicate their interest and support or if they should only sign up if they're sure they'll follow through when the P3 enters production.

If we were 100% finished with development and hoping for sales based solely on the state of the P3 and LL-GG today, we wouldn't want or need additional investors to help us take the next steps. We would ask for paid orders from people who are interested today, supplement financing with a bank loan if necessary, plan the manufacturing process, and build/ship machines.

Up until now, the only people who have risked anything are us (founder, staff, and angel investors). We've poured money, time, and passion into the creation of what we know to be the future of pinball. As we prepare for the pre-production phase, we need to convince more investors to take a risk, and to do that we need to provide proof of the potential market.

If you're interested in helping the pinball industry move forward, or if you plan on buying a new pinball machine in the next year or two, please fill out and send us a no-money-down, no-risk P3 pre-order form. We're intentionally not asking for your money; we're just asking for your signature to help us convince investors a large potential market exists. In exchange for your signature, we're reserving you an early spot in our production queue, and we're offering various risk-free incentives. Since you can decide later if you'll actually pay for the machine or drop out, it's on us to execute our vision and convince you the P3 is a must own machine.

Why are we asking for signed forms rather than email responses? Signatures carry more weight than emails, and signatures lock in some of the incentives we're offering.

You can send in the form via regular mail or by sending an email with a scan/photo of the signed form. The forum is available on our website here: http://www.multimorphic.com/index.php/p3-pinball-platform/pre-orders

Thank you for your help and support.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#59 5 years ago
Quoted from nikpinball:

Does the 2 game pack come with 2 different upper 1/3rd playfields?

As mentioned by others, LL-GG and CCR each come with their own upper playfields.

Quoted from nikpinball:

You mentioned $1500 for each new game + playfield swap, is that number still where you are at?

It will depend on the complexity of each game and volumes. There's a lot that goes into making a pinball game (p/f, art, LCD content, sound/music, programming, etc), and economies of scale factor into final pricing. That said, we have some game concepts that we could develop and sell for under $1000 and others that are higher.

$1500-$2500 is a realistic estimate for standard complexity pinball games. Asking you to pay much more than that for future games would contradict one of the biggest advantages of owning a multi-game platform.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#60 5 years ago
Quoted from lurch:

EDIT: After browsing the community forums i found the PROC, which i guess is similar to what i was asking about??? Have to do some more reading.

Just FYI, the P3 actually runs on one of the P-ROC series of controllers, the P3-ROC. Both the P-ROC controllers and the P3 pinball system are being developed by the same folks.

#61 5 years ago
Quoted from Toyguy:

Just FYI, the P3 actually runs on one of the P-ROC series of controllers, the P3-ROC. Both the P-ROC controllers and the P3 pinball system are being developed by the same folks.

Thanks for clearing that up. I did manage to find this: http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/docs/P-ROC_Product_Brief.pdf

Looks great! Are these actually available? Most of the posts or information about this seems to be from 2012..... and i dont see a store anywhere.

#62 5 years ago
Quoted from Law:

Full disclosure: I'm not in on the pre-order at this time. I'd love to be, but I know that in Q3-Q4 2015 I'm going to have higher priorities than a hobbyist purchase of this magnitude. Here's to 2016!

So, I'm going to have to eat my words. With Gerry's update/clarification and some introspection, I came to the conclusion that I couldn't justify *not* supporting these guys in a meaningful way and I just sent in my pre-order form. I'm still thinking 2016 time-frame, but who knows?

I know that not everyone has been able to spend the hands-on time with the machine that I have, but I'd strongly encourage anyone that thinks this technology is worthwhile or that there need to be more games like Demolition Man on Steroids, Predator, or Wrath of Olympus (also indie PROC games) to "sign the petition". Can you imagine what sort of stuff could start coming out when developers like Pinnovating have access to a platform like the P3 and can send out compact game kits to owners and operators? Maybe I'm an optimist, but ... it's exciting.

One thing that I don't think the videos get across well is that the entire thing is mod-able, not just the back end. The ball detection system does require transparent components as far as I know, but those side wireforms and stand-ups are just as modular as everything else and could be replaced by or supplemented by nearly anything.

In case anyone's not seen it:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/p3-lexy-lightspeed-early-gameplay-video

This is the kind of thing that modern redemption-driven arcades like Dave & Busters are going to be willing to put on the floor.

#63 5 years ago
Quoted from lurch:

Thanks for clearing that up. I did manage to find this: http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/docs/P-ROC_Product_Brief.pdf
Looks great! Are these actually available? Most of the posts or information about this seems to be from 2012..... and i dont see a store anywhere.

Are you asking if P-ROC's are available for purchase? Yes, they've been available since 2009, and you can buy them directly through our http://www.pinballcontrollers.com site. Many of the high profile rethemes / extensions use the P-ROC (BoP2, CCC, DMoS, Matrix, etc) and the open source pyprocgame game framework. There are also many custom projects (many of which are commercial) using the P-ROC (or later generation P3-ROC) and our modular driver board system (PDBs).

I'm quite confident the P-ROC remains the most advanced pinball control system in the world, and the P3-ROC and related boards take it up another notch. To join the fray or just to chat with other P-ROC users, visit our forums at http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum.

As mentioned by Toyguy, the P3-ROC is the controller used in the P3 platform we are now offering with the no-money-down, no-risk deal. In fact, just about every PCB used in the P3 will be available for purchase and use in other games, whether those games are designed as P3 modules or standalone machines.

Feel free to contact me privately, join our forums, or start another thread here for P-ROC discussions. Let's keep this one focused on discussions related to the risk-free P3 offer.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#64 5 years ago
Quoted from Law:

This is the kind of thing that modern redemption-driven arcades like Dave & Busters are going to be willing to put on the floor.

This is the huge potential for the P3. Not only can it display the kind of games that actually attract players these days at family entertainment centers, but the easily swappable magnetic art can be customized for all sorts of location specific promotion, AND for the first time, pinball on location won't need a skilled technician working on site to fix a game when it goes down. A flipper module has trouble? Swap it out and send the old on n for repairs. LLGG's upper playfield has a problem? Swap in CCR and get back up and running immediately. Hot new game comes out? Pop it in in 30 seconds.

The fact that it is network capable opens up so many more opportunities too. Possible future features like checking audits from your desk or having errors ping your phone can mean operators games stay up longer and take in more tokens/credits/etc.

Almost every time I encounter pinball in the wild, kids completely ignore it, and if it's working at all, it usually has major problems of one sort or another that make the games not-fun to play. By directly addressing serviceability issues, I think Multimorphic has the ability to fuel the resurgence of location pinball more than any traditional game could.

#65 5 years ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

Feel free to contact me privately, join our forums, or start another thread here for P-ROC discussions. Let's keep this one focused on discussions related to the risk-free P3 offer.

Thanks for the information! I will reach out to you guys in a few weeks once i have my next project in hand!

#66 5 years ago

Just wanted to issue a public thank you to everybody who's participated so far. Your support is sincerely appreciated.

Re-post of our latest teaser:

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#67 5 years ago

too cool.
the future is finally here

#68 5 years ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

Re-post of our latest teaser:

That is a great video Gerry.

What an experience making this a reality.

LTG : )™

#69 5 years ago

I just signed up. Really no risk and it helps P3/Multimorphic show interest to investors.

#70 5 years ago

Awesome promo video. Just watched it.

#71 5 years ago

Bump for this revolutionary machine! Come on guys let's help Gerry get these produced. Can't wait to get mine!

#72 5 years ago
Quoted from shoemakesmusic:

If you can't afford it at the time of payment, you can always get someone to cosine for it.

My wife wants this but secant afford it.

#73 5 years ago

Reminder: The first set of incentives are locked in on 1/1/2015. Get your no-risk P3 reservation in before then to take advantage.

I've gotten a few requests for payment plans, and we're evaluating a couple of options that don't negate the no-money-down before production deal. When we settle on a payment schedule, we'll make it available to all unpaid pre-order customers.

Once again, please submit your reservation even if you're on the fence and/or unable to justify the purchase right now. We're defining a potential market, and your order cancels automatically if you decide to drop out by simply not paying at production time. What you see in LL-GG now is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.multimorphic.com/index.php/p3-pinball-platform/pre-orders

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#74 5 years ago

Gerry,

I'm really hoping to be one of your pre-orders which follows through. That said, how long does it take to switch out the games if you go for the 2 games/$10k route? It will be interesting to see how the one game is priced to see a comparison.

Anyhoo...here is a bump for the thread.

#75 5 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

Gerry,
I'm really hoping to be one of your pre-orders which follows through.

Fantastic! We'll look forward to shipping you a P3!

Quoted from VolunteerPin:

how long does it take to switch out the games if you go for the 2 games/$10k route?

Swapping the upper p/f takes under 60 seconds and is completely tool-less.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#76 5 years ago

Any chance you'll be at the Atlanta show in June? I'm looking for a great excuse to attend my first show.

#77 5 years ago

We can't commit just yet, but we're hoping to get the P3 to the Atlanta show (and a bunch of others).

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#78 5 years ago

I have a question Gerry. P.m. sent thank you

#79 5 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

Gerry,
That said, how long does it take to switch out the games if you go for the 2 games/$10k route?

switching out games is about the easiest thing on the planet.
seen it done in person.
unplug, lifts right out, put new one in, plug in. play-play-play

#80 5 years ago

Hmm we have some reading comprehension problems here.

image-318.jpg

#81 5 years ago

Definitely an exciting time for pinball!

A very straight forward and generous offer just for showing interest. Some people are just too obtuse to understand and always looking for the angle.

#82 5 years ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

Reminder: The first set of incentives are locked in on 1/1/2015. Get your no-risk P3 reservation in before then to take advantage.
I've gotten a few requests for payment plans, and we're evaluating a couple of options that don't negate the no-money-down before production deal. When we settle on a payment schedule, we'll make it available to all unpaid pre-order customers.
Once again, please submit your reservation even if you're on the fence and/or unable to justify the purchase right now. We're defining a potential market, and your order cancels automatically if you decide to drop out by simply not paying at production time. What you see in LL-GG now is just the tip of the iceberg.
http://www.multimorphic.com/index.php/p3-pinball-platform/pre-orders
- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

Looks like an awesome game!

I actually clicked on the link and tried to preorder. (I've preordered every other game.) But without a printer or scanner, I don't have a document to send you.

This preorder was too difficult! : )

Gave you another bump though.

#83 5 years ago
Quoted from MikeHogue:

Looks like an awesome game!
I actually clicked on the link and tried to preorder. (I've preordered every other game.) But without a printer or scanner, I don't have a document to send you.
This preorder was too difficult! : )
Gave you another bump though.

Gerry, I actually had the same issue. You may not be asking for any money but may be unnecessarily hobbling yourself with the hoop for prospects to jump through. This is all about building your list so I'd try making it easier.

#84 5 years ago

pm gerry... maybe a mspaint signature would work?

#85 5 years ago

If you are on a Mac, you an actually load your signature into preview for signing docs digitally. No printer or scanner needed, just a webcam to capture your signature once.

http://9to5mac.com/2014/02/15/how-to-use-preview-to-put-signatures-on-pdfs-pages-documents-and-mail-messages/

It is handy for all sorts of things, but it will solve this pre-order form for some of you hopefully.

#86 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

You may not be asking for any money but may be unnecessarily hobbling yourself with the hoop for prospects to jump through. This is all about building your list so I'd try making it easier.

I think the point of the signature is just that- it's not supposed to be a two-minute decision sort of thing. Gerry's indicated he's prepared for a large number of people dropping off the pre-order, but I'm sure he'd prefer to have mostly serious buyers.

If there's anyone that really wants to pre-order but cannot print it for whatever reason just PM me and I'll mail you one.

#87 5 years ago

Just sent in the form. Not difficult, I don't have a printer at home so I went down to my local print store to print out the form, dug out my scanner, scanned the form and attached it to an email. Guess you could take a photo of the form as well with your phone if you don't have a scanner.

I like this model, finally a pre-order I can afford! I also wanted to show my support for innovation in pinball and the P3 platform.

#88 5 years ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

Just announced: P3 pre-orders are now NO money down, risk, and no obligation. Please support our efforts to deliver an incredible, progressive pinball platform and help move the industry forward.

Quoted from gstellenberg:

- When we wrap up the pre-production process and start procuring parts and preparing for full production, we'll ask you to send in payment for your machine. We believe you'll all be blown away by our production machine, but if you're not and want to drop out, simply don't pay us at that time and your order will be automatically cancelled.

First off, this is a great idea, and I'm looking forward to it coming out. Who knows, maybe one will even be in my basement at some point. Love the potential.

However... Despite the no obligation NOW idea, this is a little misleading unless I'm missing something. This is so you can obtain a pre-order'ish base to show investors, but despite the marketing of no risk, there is really right, as you are starting to require payment prior to the game being complete, which really is the same as every other manufacturer out there now, you've just deferred the date for payment (which has been done with some of them as well previously).

Most of them that are in hot water have a machine, that has long had parts and is ready for production, just as you would be when asking for money, but that is when the issues of it all coming together falls apart. THAT is where the risky part is, and your plan has the same inherent possible problems.

To me, you are still in the same boat as the usual pre-order boutique group that everywhere is saying they won't do again. Even Skit-B deferred payment requirement for a long time as well, and had a pre-order no risk idea like you did for a long time, and look what is going on there.

This of course has no bearing on what you will accomplish, and maybe you are 100% on cue, great game, no issues, in the same boat as Spooky. But this is getting perceived as a "fresh" look to the current troubling other boutique things going on, and really, I see it as the same thing in the end, and with all the history lessons now learned, that makes anything new wanting money before the game is ready very questionable and risky in my books.

Furthermore, are the investors being made aware of the fact that your pre-order model is being set up like this? Are they aware of this thread? If not, that makes that aspect seem pretty suspect as well, from their perspective, and it should be from anyone else's. I would not feel comfortable with signing up to a company that has just publicly "fooled" their investors to get past a hurdle. We are already seeing other possible suspect things coming to light with that whole Phil thread.

This isn't a swing at you, so I hope it's not interpreted that way. This is just my read of the situation, which hasn't really been addressed from anyone, and I think it's important to bring it up. I get you need the capital to move passed a phase, but the idea that has been discussed, which is a true no risk, is that the pre-order idea in it's entirety should be scrapped. I guess if people want to forgo that, and continue to sign up, well, you have your history lessons out there, and you can make that informed decision with your cash yourself.

I will say this, if you can assure me the investors are privy to what you are doing here with this pre-order, to support this great idea and pinball, I will in fact sign up, if that still helps with everything being on the table for them, but I will also most certainly drop out prior to the game being completed, if it is not at some very high level of completion, and I for sure know what I'm getting prior to payment being requested.

14
#89 5 years ago

I apologize for the length of this post. Some good points were raised, and I want to address them with sufficient detail.

Reminder: submit your no-risk pre-order by 1/1/2015 to take advantage of the current incentives and to lock in participation of all future incentives up until production is announced. Link to form: http://www.multimorphic.com/index.php/p3-pinball-platform/pre-orders#

Quoted from MikeHogue:

But without a printer or scanner, I don't have a document to send you.
This preorder was too difficult! : )

Quoted from frolic:

This is all about building your list so I'd try making it easier.

This isn't just about building a list. We have an enormous "interested" email list, but potential investors don't care much about email lists. Printing and signing a document isn't much more difficult than just sending an email, but it clearly makes people think a little more about their level of interest.

Taking/sending a pic of the signed document is fine. There are actually some good phone apps made just for that purpose (but a simple camera pic is fine too).

Quoted from Atomicboy:

Despite the no obligation NOW idea, this is a little misleading unless I'm missing something. This is so you can obtain a pre-order'ish base to show investors, but despite the marketing of no risk, there is really [risk], as you are starting to require payment prior to the game being complete, which really is the same as every other manufacturer out there now, you've just deferred the date for payment (which has been done with some of them as well previously).

I don't understand your conclusion. We're giving you the option not just to defer payment, but also to defer the decision about paying. This is truly no risk. If the time comes to pay and you don't want to pay, don't pay. It's clearly stated in the terms that your order will automatically cancel if payment isn't received within 15 days of the production payment request.

As mentioned in a previous response, a number of folks are asking for payment plans; so we're considering payment plan possibilities.

Most of them that are in hot water have a machine, that has long had parts and is ready for production, just as you would be when asking for money, but that is when the issues of it all coming together falls apart. THAT is where the risky part is, and your plan has the same inherent possible problems.

I disagree, but you probably don't have the whole story. In the terms, it says "Production won't begin until after the manufacturing process is used for a pre-production build of 10-12 machines, and the pre-production machines
and manufacturing processes have been tested and certified to be production-ready."

I don't know what the other MFG's you're referencing consider "pre-production", but our "pre-production" process is based on a combined 40+ years of experience taking bleeding-edge electromechanical devices through *modern* production processes with contract manufacturers. The pre-production process isn't to build machines that resemble production machines or to test new design ideas (that's done in the MFG prototypes we're building now), it's to have the contract manufacturers build machines exactly like they will with higher quantity production orders. It's for them to fine-tune their processes (with our BOMs, vendors, build instructions, and guidance) and to ensure the results (ready-to-ship machines) meet all of our quality metrics. When we ask for customer payments, manufacturing will capable and ready to build machines, and the machines will have been certified (UL, CE, etc). In other words, payment will be necessary solely for the purpose of building customer machines, and the kinks in the manufacturing process will already be worked out. The only risk at this point is meeting our estimated production timeframe (and of course finding investors). There is no risk that we'll ask for customer money before production is ready.

For those of you who are worried about us not partnering with an existing pinball manufacturing company, don't be. Among many of things, the P3 is designed to simplify the manufacturing process (and also serviceability). Companies with pinball manufacturing experience won't be able to build the P3 more efficiently than any of the dozens of contract manufacturers in and around our headquarters in Austin (or anywhere else). In fact, I'd argue that putting together P3's in a traditional pinball manufacturing environment would actually be less efficient. I'll repeat, the P3 is designed to simplify the manufacturing process. When we start showing off the guts of the machine, you'll understand how and why.

But this is getting perceived as a "fresh" look to the current troubling other boutique things going on, and really, I see it as the same thing in the end, and with all the history lessons now learned, that makes anything new wanting money before the game is ready very questionable and risky in my books.

I certainly hope it's being perceived as a '"fresh" look', as we feel like we're operating on very high ethical and business grounds. We're attempting to build a respected and successful company, delivering a progressive pinball machine that solves a lot of the problems traditional games present to consumers while delivering both traditional and progressive gameplay features. We're open and honest with our customers, suppliers, partners, and of course potential investors. We've been as transparent as possible throughout the life of our business, and we've built a supportive group of customers (first with our P-ROC and related products, and now with the P3). I'm very proud of the support we provide to P-ROC customers, and I'm equally proud of the support we've provided to early P3 customers and of the support we're planning moving forward. I'm also proud of our acceptance of constructive criticism and how we use that criticism to tweak our plans.

We (the Multimorphic team + early investors) have taken all of the risk. We haven't and won't put our customers' money at risk, as further evidenced by this change to the pre-order terms. I've poured my heart, soul, and my savings into this company, and we have a group of employees and angel investors who have also risked their time and/or money. We're innovating like nobody else in the industry and therefore assuming even more risk than anybody else. Suggesting we're just like the other "boutique" companies is extremely disappointing to me. We believe we're building a fantastic, innovative product, and we know we're building an honest and professional company. Obviously we've made and will continue to make mistakes along the way, but we learn from them and improve as a result.

Furthermore, are the investors being made aware of the fact that your pre-order model is being set up like this? Are they aware of this thread? If not, that makes that aspect seem pretty suspect as well, from their perspective, and it should be from anyone else's. I would not feel comfortable with signing up to a company that has just publicly "fooled" their investors to get past a hurdle.

I actually find this somewhat insulting, both to us and to our investors, though I know that wasn't your intention. We're trying to build good, long-term relationship with customers, vendors, and our investors. I personally will let the company fail and die before I purposefully "fool" anybody, especially those people who are helping us build the company. So far potential investors have been super excited about the product, but they've asked us to prove there's a customer base by taking pre-orders (and doing other things like putting games out on location, which we're planning to do when the MFG protos are ready). We told these potential investors that we would never put customer money at risk and, in light of the current pinball pre-order landscape, that we would change our terms to not ask for any payments until production.

So... yes, the potential investors are aware of this pre-order model. They're also aware that many people will likely drop out. They're also aware that we believe many more will want to buy the machine after seeing the production version and certainly after we (and others) start shipping additional game kits. We've not just designed in new/fun gameplay features, we've also engineered a pinball platform and a business model that completely change the economics of owning pinball games. Clearly we've got a chicken-and-egg problem with a new pinball platform without a large library of game kits or a high profile theme for game 1, but our potential investors know about that too, and it'll work itself out as we finish the platform development, get 3rd parties making game kits, and develop more and more content ourselves.

I will say this, if you can assure me the investors are privy to what you are doing here with this pre-order, to support this great idea and pinball, I will in fact sign up, if that still helps with everything being on the table for them, but I will also most certainly drop out prior to the game being completed, if it is not at some very high level of completion, and I for sure know what I'm getting prior to payment being requested.

We won't ask for your money until it's completed (software, hardware, production process, certifications, etc), and we hope to have our pre-production machines in various locations around the country (and hopefully world) for folks to play. We'll certainly continue having monthly play-testing parties and making sure the community is up-to-date on development progress. If we did ask for payment early (we won't), then I'd fully expect you (and everybody else) to drop out. I agree with every single one of your concerns as they relate to the current pinball landscape. I just don't think any of them apply to Multimorphic or our no-risk pre-order program. Treating people fairly and with respect is of utmost importance to me; I couldn't run a company any other way.

As always, please feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns. If nothing else, I can hopefully at least alleviate any fears about a lack of transparency.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#90 5 years ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

- When we wrap up the pre-production process and start procuring parts and preparing for full production, we'll ask you to send in payment for your machine.

Quoted from Atomicboy:

Despite the no obligation NOW idea, this is a little misleading unless I'm missing something.

Quoted from gstellenberg:

I don't understand your conclusion. We're giving you the option not just to defer payment, but also to defer the decision about paying. This is truly no risk. If the time comes to pay and you don't want to pay, don't pay. It's clearly stated in the terms that your order will automatically cancel if payment isn't received within 15 days of the production payment request.

Quoted from gstellenberg:

In the terms, it says "Production won't begin until after the manufacturing process is used for a pre-production build of 10-12 machines, and the pre-production machines
and manufacturing processes have been tested and certified to be production-ready."

Ok, so this is what was missing in what I read, well, what was not present in the posts, and when I noted "unless I'm missing something". It read to me that you were going to start asking for money as you were ramping up for production and securing the parts, but it wasn't clear in your first post that this was after you had completed 10-12 machines, and worked out the bugs so to speak.

Again, without that key piece of information, I perceived that you were going to start asking for money while starting to obtain the parts, prior to producing machines, and thus my comparison to other companies.

Quoted from gstellenberg:

I actually find this somewhat insulting, both to us and to our investors, though I know that wasn't your intention.

Quoted from gstellenberg:

So... yes, the potential investors are aware of this pre-order model. They're also aware that many people will likely drop out.

Fair enough if they are, nothing to be insulted by. I think it's a legitimate question. I would expect investors would want a solid commitment with some portion of payment, but if the interest factor is enough, then perfect.

Quoted from gstellenberg:

We won't ask for your money until it's completed (software, hardware, production process, certifications, etc), and we hope to have our pre-production machines in various locations around the country (and hopefully world) for folks to play.

Again, this was another point not included previously, and I think it's a good one. You noted money would not be asked for until production was ready, but again, you had not stated that was after you had 10-12 machines ready and worked out. Again, it sounded like money would be asked for when production was nearing the start, and it sounded like (to me) like that was prior to machines being made, which again was the comparison to some other of the "boutiques".

As such, this clarifies my issues. Again, I was clear it wasn't a swing at you, and that IMO some aspects were just not clear, so I hope you see that. Given all that has gone on with other boutiques, I think everything needs to be held up to the microscope going forward, but I'm content with your answers.

#91 5 years ago

Great - sounds like we're on the same page now. For future reference (and for anybody wanting to take advantage of this offer), the details are all defined in the form on this page:

http://www.multimorphic.com/index.php/p3-pinball-platform/pre-orders#

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#92 5 years ago

I got over my technology hump and got the order form scanned in.

#93 5 years ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

Among many of things, the P3 is designed to simplify the manufacturing process

I was pondering this. When you think about the swappable modules of the p3... the upper playfield, the floating slings and flippers... I'm sure all those components will be created by sub-contractors, and then the actual assembly (the stuff that happens in the Stern factory) really is just about popping in that video monitor, the sub assemblies, cpu, everything plugs in and its done. So I don't doubt for a second what is normally 2 man-days of work will be assembled in an hour or something.

1 week later
#94 5 years ago

I understand I'm a bit late to the party (just read through this entire thread and was pleased to see the overwhelmingly positive response and Gerry's consistently level-headed and intelligent explanation to some questions raised), but I'm now another proud name on the no-risk P3 reservation list. I hope this can serve as a thread bump and elicit some additional pre-order interest.

Good luck, Gerry!
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
www.ElephantEater.com

#95 5 years ago

Gerry, how can I get involved as an international buyer? Will you be partnering with distributors, or is there an as-yet-to-be finalised conduit for getting this farther than North America? I would like to add my signature to your commitment list, but not sure yet that I could actually buy it from down under.

#96 5 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Gerry, how can I get involved as an international buyer? Will you be partnering with distributors, or is there an as-yet-to-be finalised conduit for getting this farther than North America? I would like to add my signature to your commitment list, but not sure yet that I could actually buy it from down under.

PM sent. We have quite a few international pre-order customers already, including a few from Australia and NZ. For direct sales, we'll pursue group shipping options. At the same time, we hope to have at least one official distributor servicing your area.

I'm encouraging people in your situation to sign up for the current no-money-down, no-risk pre-order. If we get to production and you don't like the shipping options we choose, you can simply let the early pre-order automatically cancel due to non-payment, and you can buy your P3 through a distributor.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

1 week later
#97 5 years ago

Bump for an awesome product.

#98 5 years ago

Nice work Gerry.

9 months later
#99 4 years ago

So when is P3 shipping then?

#100 4 years ago

In Houston... or was it Chicago... I seem to recall him saying maybe in Q2 of next year.

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