Quoted from jamieflowers:Although it would most likely just have DAD over and over....
What I love about the leaderboards from Stern is that they just take each IC users top score for the leaderboard, so you would only hold the top spot, while the second spot would only be someone else, even if they are billions below your score. I'm pumped for home leaderboards (hopefully soon) so that my friends can compete for that second spot!
Quoted from PersonX99:I would be happy if they released a set of apis to access IC users and scores on the machines. I could make my own leaderboards from the data among other thing as well.
I agree that would be awesome but……. They would have more control if they just let us set them up like the Pro accounts.
Leader boards for home doesn't make sense. I'm sure there is a lot of home pinball parties. But not enough to justify it. You wouldn't want people to know where you live. Isolation and limited to a certain groups of people. Locations generate money and makes operators like me want to have more machines for the leader board.
Quoted from Jaytech10:Leader boards for home doesn't make sense. I'm sure there is a lot of home pinball parties. But not enough to justify it. You wouldn't want people to know where you live. Isolation and limited to a certain groups of people. Locations generate money and makes operators like me want to have more machines for the leader board.
Counterpoint - Leaderboards are a cool feature that lots of private owners would like. No one needs to know where you live. Location leaderboards are not enough to entice me to play on location and adding them to the home experience isn't going to effect operator's cash flow.
It would not surprise me if home leaderboards were baked in the the first round of the inevitable forthcoming paywalled level of IC at the home user level. If they wanted us to have it for free at home, we would have it by now. It is a feature a lot of people want, so Stern would probably see it as a good business move to monetize it. I am not looking forward to the eventual move to features being behind a paid subscription; but in the era of home users freely willing to pay $1000-$2000 for toppers with exclusive modes baked into their hardware, I am being realistic. I think having service alerts like the operators receive now but available to home users would be a great thing as well.
Quoted from Jaytech10:Leader boards for home doesn't make sense. I'm sure there is a lot of home pinball parties. But not enough to justify it. You wouldn't want people to know where you live. Isolation and limited to a certain groups of people. Locations generate money and makes operators like me want to have more machines for the leader board.
For home leaderboard your friends and family could bull up the board by name, not location. There are a ton of people with many pins, I have 8, and have weekly home tournaments and this would be great. I would not mind a pay wall but make it like 40 a year.
Quoted from Jaytech10:Leader boards for home doesn't make sense. I'm sure there is a lot of home pinball parties. But not enough to justify it. You wouldn't want people to know where you live. Isolation and limited to a certain groups of people. Locations generate money and makes operators like me want to have more machines for the leader board.
I don't think the exclusivity of leaderboards to locations shifts much (if any) play to locations from home play. Leaderboards on location are a nice feature, and people who are already going to play on location like seeing them there. But it's really not going to change someone's mind to play on location vs playing at home.
If someone owns a machine at home and is having guests over to play, they're still going to play at home instead of going to a location with leaderboards. They don't think to themselves "Well, I don't have leaderboards at home so let's meet at a location instead." I have yet to ever hear ANYONE suggest playing at a location instead of at home because of leaderboards.
So I think it's unlikely that opening up leaderboards to machines at home would cause any meaningful hit to location earnings.
If Stern is going to have a feature that's exclusive to locations, it should at least be a feature that will cause a meaningful number of home machine owners to think "yeah, I want to play on location instead of playing at home tonight" to truly create additional revenue on location. Things like promotions or food & beverage deals tied into the locations could actually generate additional revenue.
If anything, I think it's more likely that home leaderboards would add some revenue to locations. Guests playing at a house that has leaderboards might have more fun playing. Then when they see a game on location (even a game that doesn't have Insider Connected) they might be more inclined to drop a couple bucks into it whereas maybe they wouldn't have before. If anything, generating more interest in pinball for more people (including having home leaderboards) will translate into more location play because the number of people who might spend a few dollars playing on location would really only increase.
Quoted from EaglePin:I don't think the exclusivity of leaderboards to locations shifts much (if any) play to locations from home play. Leaderboards on location are a nice feature, and people who are already going to play on location like seeing them there. But it's really not going to change someone's mind to play on location vs playing at home.
If someone owns a machine at home and is having guests over to play, they're still going to play at home instead of going to a location with leaderboards. They don't think to themselves "Well, I don't have leaderboards at home so let's meet at a location instead." I have yet to ever hear ANYONE suggest playing at a location instead of at home because of leaderboards.
So I think it's unlikely that opening up leaderboards to machines at home would cause any meaningful hit to location earnings.
If Stern is going to put have a feature that's exclusive to locations, it should at least be a feature that will cause a meaningful number of home machine owners to think "yeah, I want to play on location instead of playing at home tonight" to truly create additional revenue on location. Things like promotions or food & beverage deals tied into the locations could actually generate additional revenue.
If anything, I think it's more likely that home leaderboards would add some revenue to locations. Guests playing at a house that has leaderboards might have more fun playing. Then when they see a game on location they might be more inclined to drop a couple bucks into it whereas maybe they wouldn't have before. If anything, generating more interest in pinball for more people (including having home leaderboards) will translate into more location play because the number of people who might spend a few dollars playing on location would really only increase.
And this is without even getting into the fact that, like it or not, home sales and home customers are the big market share for Stern and other pinball companies. So even if one tried to make the argument that home leaderboards would reduce location play (which I don't think holds any water for the reasons I wrote above), the fact is that in the big picture most areas of the country don't have many Insider Connected location machines nearby to begin with, let alone locations with leaderboards set up.
Most games on location are machines that don't even have Insider Connected.
Someone looking to play location pinball and having a location within 1/2 hour of where they live with leaderboards set up on titles they want to play is the exception, not the rule.
So, again, leaderboards are not a meaningful driver of revenue to locations for people who own machines at home.
So denying the leaderboard feature to customers who buy Stern machines at home (their largest sales market) and who for the most part don't even have nearby access to locations with leaderboards doesn't really seem to make good business sense for Stern. People who own machines at home might be more inclined to buy another Stern machine (instead of a competitor's game) if they're having fun with leaderboards at home with friends and family.
Quoted from EaglePin:I don't think the exclusivity of leaderboards to locations shifts much (if any) play to locations from home play. Leaderboards on location are a nice feature, and people who are already going to play on location like seeing them there. But it's really not going to change someone's mind to play on location vs playing at home.
If someone owns a machine at home and is having guests over to play, they're still going to play at home instead of going to a location with leaderboards. They don't think to themselves "Well, I don't have leaderboards at home so let's meet at a location instead." I have yet to ever hear ANYONE suggest playing at a location instead of at home because of leaderboards.
So I think it's unlikely that opening up leaderboards to machines at home would cause any meaningful hit to location earnings.
If Stern is going to put have a feature that's exclusive to locations, it should at least be a feature that will cause a meaningful number of home machine owners to think "yeah, I want to play on location instead of playing at home tonight" to truly create additional revenue on location. Things like promotions or food & beverage deals tied into the locations could actually generate additional revenue.
If anything, I think it's more likely that home leaderboards would add some revenue to locations. Guests playing at a house that has leaderboards might have more fun playing. Then when they see a game on location they might be more inclined to drop a couple bucks into it whereas maybe they wouldn't have before. If anything, generating more interest in pinball for more people (including having home leaderboards) will translate into more location play because the number of people who might spend a few dollars playing on location would really only increase.
I totally agree with you on bringing more people to IC. Because of all of my home games many have gotten into IC and have started exploring locations and finding more games.
Quoted from Palmer:Counterpoint - Leaderboards are a cool feature that lots of private owners would like. No one needs to know where you live. Location leaderboards are not enough to entice me to play on location and adding them to the home experience isn't going to effect operator's cash flow.
And the private owners are where the big $$$ are for Stern and other pinball companies. The big majority of sales are to private owners.
Without getting access to fun features like home leaderboards those customers remain equally interested in buying machines from other companies.
With home leaderboards a lot of those customers probably would lean more towards just buying a Stern since the new machine could be added to the fun of their home leaderboard.
Right now my next game will probably be Pulp Fiction. If home leaderboards were a thing I'd probably lean more toward waiting to buy the next Stern that looks good to me.
Quoted from Palmer:Counterpoint - Leaderboards are a cool feature that lots of private owners would like. No one needs to know where you live. Location leaderboards are not enough to entice me to play on location and adding them to the home experience isn't going to effect operator's cash flow.
I'm doing quarterly ones with cash prizes.
There is high scores on the machines already. I know a lot private owners because I work on their machines. I never get asked by any of them about leader board. Stern or anyone is not going to invest(outside of the machines) in something to make the home buyers happy. 13k for a le and 7k for a pro should tell it's about making the operators happy not private collectors. There isn't 2k more in parts between the 2.
Quoted from EaglePin:And the private owners are where the big $$$ are for Stern and other pinball companies. The big majority of sales are to private owners.
Without getting access to fun features like home leaderboards those customers remain equally interested in buying machines from other companies.
With home leaderboards a lot of those customers probably would lean more towards just buying a Stern since the new machine could be added to the fun of their home leaderboard.
Right now my next game will probably be Pulp Fiction. If home leaderboards were a thing I'd probably lean more toward waiting to buy the next Stern that looks good to me.
Stern's majority of sales is over seas. Most of those are for locations. No everyone buys all the LEs or premiums when they are released. 13k to 7k is why the private collectors are higher out of the gate first.
Quoted from EaglePin:And the private owners are where the big $$$ are for Stern and other pinball companies. The big majority of sales are to private owners.
This is where you are wrong. At least in the aspect of potential money to be made.
Even if most Stern games are sold to homes, a “fact” that isn’t really known…. How many home IC users are going to pay for a per-play charge? The answer is probably not many at all, and if they do, it’s only a small percentage of the play that location games get.
If Stern can charge an operator 5 cents per play on IC games, and the games get 1000 plays a week, that’s $50 a week to Stern! Multiply to all the IC games on location, and it is a HUGE revenue stream that is never going away, long after the game has been sold, Stern gets paid in perpetuity.
THAT is the endgame for them, they are simply giving it away now so the customers will pressure locations to keep it once they start charging, and it will probably work.
Home leaderboards should be a given at these insane prices. I.T does this with GoldenTee and has home leaderboards. Why can't Stern?
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Home leaderboards should be a given at these insane prices. I.T does this with GoldenTee and has home leaderboards. Why can't Stern?
I believe they could right now just by turning it on. I believe it’s their indecision to charge or not to charge that causes them to procrastinate. It’s too bad because in the end I believe they’re losing a user base because people were tired of waiting.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Why can't Stern?
....never give away something you can charge for....
Quoted from DNO:....never give away something you can charge for....
Sadly that's probably it. Stern already has Insider Connected All Access for $40 a year. Why not just add leaderboards to that tier? It would probably help increase subscriptions to All Access as what's currently there isn't a lot IMO.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Sadly that's probably it. Stern already has Insider Connected All Access for $40 a year. Why not just add leaderboards to that tier? It would probably help increase subscriptions to All Access as what's currently there isn't a lot IMO.
[quoted image]
Having been an all access member this year, besides buying an LE the rest they don’t make any new content. Bummer for sure
Quoted from TroyS:Having been an all access member this year, besides buying an LE the rest they don’t make any new content. Bummer for sure
That's a bummer. Yeah, one would think Stern wants to make All Access more attractive by offering more value to it (home leaderboards for one) but then again look at the Godzilla topper they just announced...
Also, where's the exclusive game content Stern has been advertising for over a year for All Access? Can't list coming soon for over a year lol.
Quoted from DNO:This is where you are wrong. At least in the aspect of potential money to be made.
Even if most Stern games are sold to homes, a “fact” that isn’t really known…. How many home IC users are going to pay for a per-play charge? The answer is probably not many at all, and if they do, it’s only a small percentage of the play that location games get.
If Stern can charge an operator 5 cents per play on IC games, and the games get 1000 plays a week, that’s $50 a week to Stern! Multiply to all the IC games on location, and it is a HUGE revenue stream that is never going away, long after the game has been sold, Stern gets paid in perpetuity.
THAT is the endgame for them, they are simply giving it away now so the customers will pressure locations to keep it once they start charging, and it will probably work.
I don't think I'm wrong currently. But yes there are certainly potential revenue streams from I/C that could happen in the future. My point is really only discussing the current state of things though.
I agree with you though and I likely wouldn't pay for the service. But I would give more weight to purchasing Sterns in the future vs. other company's games if leaderboards were available at home for free. I think the thought of paying for leaderboards is a related but separate question. There could very well be some revenue streams they're considering for the future for locations and/or home. But I have no I idea what they might be or how they might be structured and I'm not the type who enjoys speculating without having a good basis to make a guess as to what will be the magnitude of what will happen. I'll see what I think about it if/when it happens.
For the time being though it doesn't seem like there would/should be a charge for doing home leaderboards. Also, having it free is an incentive to Stern to help keep people buying Stern machines, and there's value in keeping people in their ecosystem.
Quoted from TroyS:Having been an all access member this year, besides buying an LE the rest they don’t make any new content. Bummer for sure
Yep this all access service doesn't seem worth it at all. There isn't anything included in that membership that's interesting to me.
Was hoping to see by now what additional things All Access members get. Maybe we will hear more at Expo.
Quoted from TroyS:Was hoping to see by now what additional things All Access members get. Maybe we will hear more at Expo.
Yep would be nice to see some of the IC features they originally mentioned start rolling out, especially home leaderboards.
I would really like to be able to have home leaderboards. I’ve got several IC enabled pins and an extra TV sitting around. Given that my friends and I are l constantly competing for space on the high score list, it’d be so awesome to have that displayed.
I do not agree with the sentiment that this should be a location-only feature. Leaderboards are cool, but they are absolutely not a driving force for me to play on location. I play on location because they have machines I don’t and I like hanging out with other pinheads. Having leaderboards at home would change nothing about how I patronize locations.
After all, I have dumped the equivalent of a BMW into my pinball collection. Shouldn’t I be able to use all of the connected features?
Damn right and I agree 100% - they promised it when it was being released, so I’m hoping it comes to fruition sooner than later.
Quoted from parsonsaj:I had a brief chat with Mr Gomez and asked him if he truly meant that home users would never get leaderboards. He said that was NOT what he meant, but he did say that there are some new IC features coming that may be location-specific. He said to expect home leaderboards to be offered sometime in 2023, once some privacy/security issues have been worked out.
Mr Gomez still has a few days left of 2023. Wonder if we’ll get to see home leaderboards in 2024…
Just giving a bump to this in case anyone from Stern is reading this. They said they were working on it so I'm sure its in the future somewhere. Often its mentioned that this feature is reserved for operators but I dont think offering this to home users would negatively affect their income. I have a row of IC Stern machines at home and would absolutely love to have home leaderboards. I'd also even pay for it for a reasonable amount. If you told me this feature was available only to stern insiders I'd sign up right now. Ready for this feature to be available!
Quoted from jhallsuxatpinbal:I'd also even pay for it for a reasonable amount.
Could just sell it as a external module you'd plug into a screen- sell it for $300 to cover the long term costs, server stuff or w.e you need.
make an open API and let the community design it. I asked about this at Expo in 22 <--- and they said they know the need and maybe soon. =(
Quoted from TroyS:Today is a good day for home leaderboard release. Just saying!
Heck yeah it is!!!
Personally IC has no value on my end. If Stern offered me a game for $100 less without it, I would take the $100 credit. I play pinball to escape the internet, 24 hour fake news, cell phones and tracking that so much technology has today. I did not buy a JJP Dialed-in because of the stupid cell phone thing on the playfield.
Quoted from Tommy-dog:Personally IC has no value on my end. If Stern offered me a game for $100 less without it, I would take the $100 credit. I play pinball to escape the internet, 24 hour fake news, cell phones and tracking that so much technology has today. I did not buy a JJP Dialed-in because of the stupid cell phone thing on the playfield.
Yet here you are.
In Colorado most all places have the leaderboards up.
Quoted from jamieflowers:I haven't seen a location that had a leaderboard setup, but I would love to at my house. Although it would most likely just have DAD over and over....man I wish more people played my pins lol
I bought IC thinking this was possible, I won't buy another until it is.
Quoted from Tommy-dog:Personally IC has no value on my end. If Stern offered me a game for $100 less without it, I would take the $100 credit. I play pinball to escape the internet, 24 hour fake news, cell phones and tracking that so much technology has today. I did not buy a JJP Dialed-in because of the stupid cell phone thing on the playfield.
Okay
Quoted from TroyS:I totally agree with you on bringing more people to IC. Because of all of my home games many have gotten into IC and have started exploring locations and finding more games.
I can’t get my guests to sign up for IC, or they do and forget their log in info. They also look at my GC’s as too much for the casual player. HOWEVER, if there were a flat screen with leaderboards that they could compare scores with, it would be on!
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