No Good Gofers
Williams, 1997Hey Guys,
Out of nowhere I am getting two error messages on my NGG. They are that "wires are backwards" and "wheel motor is broke." Neither of them are true, I did not mess with the wiring or the motor to cause those messages. Also the wheel award is not accurate with what is on the wheel versus what is awarded. I tried recalibrating it, but also failed miserably. I totally appreciate any help.
Yep, I'll second the opto board issue under the wheel. GLM makes a replacement opto board for it that is a decent improvement.
I started getting those 2 messages as well, then they'd go away and for a while everything was fine. The errors starting coming back more often until after a few months they never went away. When my wheel worked however it always was accurate (unlike yours I see).
I cleaned optos, reflowed solder and tried the GLM board, but that didn't fix my problem. After my NGG continued to have more phantom problems each time I turned it on (random coils firing, phantom switch closures, display problems) I reseated my ASIC chip and ALL my NGG problems went away:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#.22SuperScript_or_SubScript.22_Characters
I used this chip puller from Radio Shack:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062619
Quoted from sturner:Have you checked the opto under the wheel? I would make sure they are clean and the solder joints are still fine. I know if they get dirty it can cause it to give some weird errors.
I cleaned up the optos real nice and reflowed solder...still no joy
Quoted from jeffc:I started getting those 2 messages as well, then they'd go away and for a while everything was fine. The errors starting coming back more often until after a few months they never went away. When my wheel worked however it always was accurate (unlike yours I see).
I cleaned optos, reflowed solder and tried the GLM board, but that didn't fix my problem. After my NGG continued to have more phantom problems each time I turned it on (random coils firing, phantom switch closures, display problems) I reseated my ASIC chip and ALL my NGG problems went away:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#.22SuperScript_or_SubScript.22_Characters
I used this chip puller from Radio Shack:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062619
This is exactly what has happened. I will order the chip puller, getting in there with a small screwdriver might be tough and I don't want to damage the chip or any other components on the board. This seems like the most economic way to go before I buy a new opto board.
Thanks so much everyone for all the help. I will report back once I get the chip puller and reseat the ASIC.
You guys are great!
Even with the chip puller it took a fair amount of force to pry it loose from its socket. Good luck.
Did you go into switch edge test and move the wheel to verify both inner and outer optos consistently trigger? This should have been the first step. Flowing solder and reseating CPUs is not the first step in debugging problems lol. While you may get lucky with a shot gunned approach, its better to attempt to isolate the issue and take steps accordingly.
Quoted from markmon:Did you go into switch edge test and move the wheel to verify both inner and outer optos consistently trigger? This should have been the first step. Flowing solder and reseating CPUs is not the first step in debugging problems lol. While you may get lucky with a shot gunned approach, its better to attempt to isolate the issue and take steps accordingly.
Yep, sure did and had no success. Bummer
Mine did the exact same thing, finally traced it too a flaky opto, once repaired, it's been fine since.
When you did the wheel test, did you verify that it was not only triggering the switch, but showing the correct wheel position?
Quoted from MAJRob:Yep, sure did and had no success. Bummer
Sorry but "had no success" doesn't describe anything. It's a test. It provides results. The results aren't "success" or "no success". So perhaps you could describe in detail what did happen.
I tested the wheel, when it spins during the test and lands on an award, the award it lands on versus what is displayed is not the same. I rotate the wheel clockwise more thn one full revolution to get them paired up accurately and the display just starts circulating through the different awards. The only way for me to get it to stop circulating on the display is to exit out of the test. Does that make better sense? Am I missing something with the wheel calibrating piece?
Quoted from markmon:Did you go into switch edge test and move the wheel to verify both inner and outer optos consistently trigger? This should have been the first step. Flowing solder and reseating CPUs is not the first step in debugging problems lol. While you may get lucky with a shot gunned approach, its better to attempt to isolate the issue and take steps accordingly.
Also, 63 opens and closes during the test. 64 stays open (outer wheel opto). Any thoughts?
You've almost certainly got a bad opto on the wheel board, what you described is almost exactly what happened with mine. Unfortunately, the opto on the board is not a standard part and hard to find, you're best bet is probably the replacement board from GLM.
Good Luck!
Quoted from MAJRob:I tested the wheel, when it spins during the test and lands on an award, the award it lands on versus what is displayed is not the same. I rotate the wheel clockwise more thn one full revolution to get them paired up accurately and the display just starts circulating through the different awards. The only way for me to get it to stop circulating on the display is to exit out of the test. Does that make better sense? Am I missing something with the wheel calibrating piece?
So I said to use switch edge test, see:
Quoted from markmon:Did you go into switch edge test and move the wheel to verify both inner and outer optos consistently trigger?
The switch edge test will show your switches. You didn't do this, instead you did a wheel test.
Quoted from MAJRob:Also, 63 opens and closes during the test. 64 stays open (outer wheel opto). Any thoughts?
But ok this at least got the necessary data. 63 opens and closes, its working. 64 stays open. It's not working. It's either the opto interrupter broke (the piece that interrupts the light beam), or the opto is dead. In either case, its an opto switch problem with switch 64 causing your issue. So start by troubleshooting / replacing that.
Bump for my wheel issues while reading this thread looking for input - my wheel stops short of where it should be.
I had the same issue: test report said "wires backwards" and "wheel motor broken" even though the wheel motor was fine. I replaced the spinning disk opto board today (ordered from Great Lakes Modular) and now no issues! Thank you guys for this thread
Would this issues also cause the game to continuously eject balls into the shooter lane? It sends all six out on mine after getting the wheel motor broken error. This all started immediately after lifting the play field to trouble shoot the right out lane rollover switch.
Start by looking at the connectors at the ball trough
Quoted from Elcochino6:Would this issues also cause the game to continuously eject balls into the shooter lane? It sends all six out on mine after getting the wheel motor broken error. This all started immediately after lifting the play field to trouble shoot the right out lane rollover switch.
Quoted from algrande:Start by looking at the connectors at the ball trough
I reseated the connectors at the trough optoboards and cleaned the optos, no luck. Any other thoughts?
Can anyone describe to me what is the appropriate method of calibrating the wheel so the it awards to correct award?
Nevermind, I got it figured out. I'm gonna replace my opto board and see what happens. With just a little cleaning, I've already seen some improvements, but its not totally correct yet.
Marco Specialties
#A-22026 motor 2 opto board
Quoted from evh347:Can anyone describe to me what is the appropriate method of calibrating the wheel so the it awards to correct award?
Nevermind, I got it figured out. I'm gonna replace my opto board and see what happens. With just a little cleaning, I've already seen some improvements, but its not totally correct yet.
Marco Specialties
#A-22026 motor 2 opto board
I installed the new opto, #A-22026 motor 2 opto board from Marco Specialties.
Switch 64 is open and closing, but I'm not getting anything off Switch 63.
Can anyone tell me (or take a picture to compare) their molex connecting to their wheel opto A-22026?
There is a green wire that terminates at my molex while the other wires continue on somewhere, I'd like to know if my problem might be that green wire...thanks.
Quoted from evh347:I'd also like to know how I can tell if my wheel sticker is correctly installed/aligned?
There is a line (mark) molded on to the side of the black plastic wheel. And on the decal there is a mark/triangle between free lock and players choice (see pic below).
My Switch 63 does not close, always shows open.
With a brand new #A-22026 motor 2 opto board from Marco....there's got to be something else going on.
Quoted from Turtle:There is a line (mark) molded on to the side of the black plastic wheel. And on the decal there is a mark/triangle between free lock and players choice (see pic below).
Thank you! When I took my wheel apart I noticed the sticker and this mark on the black plastic wheel were correctly aligned. Check that one off the debug list.
To anyone else out there, does it appear that the previous owner tried to solder in some sort of bypass for switch 63 (the inner opto) because that green wire was snipped at the molex? I need to know if that green wire is supposed to terminate somewhere else.
EDIT:
With the old #A-22026 motor 2 opto board installed, the switch 63 open and closes all by itself repeatedly without me moving anything.
With the new #A-22026 motor 2 opto board installed, I no longer get the 'wires to motor are backwards' message. However, the switch 63 is no longer detected at all when I move the wheel during switch test.
Quoted from evh347:Does anyone know the difference between Marco's Motor Controller Board #A-16120 and the #A-16120-1?
My NGG lists #A-16120 as the motor board, but visually it clearly is #A-16120-1.
#A-16120
#A-16120-1
For anyone else wondering, I got a response back from Marco on this:
According to the Williams build list, the -1 is the same as the A-16120, it just includes spacers. The reason ours look different is because the A-16120's that we carry are a new design. Looks like we still have some old stock -1's.
Thanks and kind regards,
Steve Midgette
Marco Specialties Customer Support
1-803-957-5500 (9AM-6PM M-F EST)
www.marcospec.com
[email protected]
facebook.com/marcospec
I'm getting 'wires to motor are backwards' and 'wheel motor is broken' messages after opening the coin door and high power disabled. This is the underside of my wheel motor. The test report is also saying the same thing.
From this picture, does it appear that my wheel motor is in fact wired correctly?
Now on a side note, I still haven't resolved my earlier issue with the switch 63 not registering correctly with my old wheel opto board.
On my old wheel opto board, switch 63 is intermittent.
On the new wheel opto board I ordered, the switch 63 isn't registered at all.
With either the old or newer wheel opto board installed, the wheel doesn't stop on the correct award.
The sticker is installed corrected (line up with the mark on the disk).
That's a new motor board installed from Marco.
Quoted from Turtle:The wires are correct. I would recommend disassemble the wheel and clean out all the black dust. Also, clean the optos on the opto board. Q-tip and alcohol. Finally what's up with the opto board and the patch wires?
I know...that's the old wheel opto board. I tried replacing it with a new opto board (I discussed this earlier in the thread) and switch 63 doesn't register at all on the new opto board. I put the old one back in because switch 63 is at least intermittent. When switch 63 isn't detected at all, if the wheel lands on 'player's choice', the game is basically over because the flippers won't stop the wheel on anything. It just goes into an endless loop and the game gets confused as to where the balls are. The music is wrong....etc...it requires a reboot. Believe me, that old wheel opto was the first thing that caught my eye and one of the first things I tried replacing.
I've disassembled the wheel before and cleaned it as you already suggested. Yes, it was dirty.
I'm getting down to the only thing I haven't replaced is the main opto board (#A-22019-2), but nobody has them in stock.
Just an update...I believe I've finally fixed my wheel issue with the machine not recognizing the award the wheel actually was stopping on.
In what I thought was an unrelated issue, I got around to replacing my MPU board due to some erratic behavior (G11 Checksum Error) out of nowhere one day. I found acid damage on the back of the board where the batteries were. I replaced the MPU board and the wheel seems to be much better. With a new motor board, new wheel opto board, and a new MPU...it appears to be working for now. It still seems a little flaky whenever it lands on 'Player's Choice' but I'll report back as I have time to play test it. Right now the wheel is about 95% accurate in detecting the correct award.
Also, I'm no longer getting those "wires are backwards" and "wheel motor is broke" error messages.
Link to other thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/no-good-gofers-test-mode-function-buttons-not-working#post-4502288
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