I have a No Good Gofers (NGG) that has worked great, but recently it sometimes kicks out a second ball from the subway exit above the pop bumpers. It doesn't happen all of the time and appears to be random. I confirmed the game has the specified 6 balls in it. Any ideas on what could be causing this or what I should check? Thanks. - Andrew

Anyone have any ideas on the second ball randomly coming out? It seems like randomly while I am playing the game will make the thunder sound and then release an extra ball from above the pops. Not sure what I should be checking. All tests on game were fine, and correct number of balls are in game. Since the ball is coming out of the subway area of the game, is there a switch or something that is incorrectly telling the game to release another ball? Other than this game works fine (e.g. I can lock the balls and they only come out when I enter the putting green for multi-ball, and likewise, balls seems to be released from the trough fine as well). Thanks for any suggestions.

Thanks Terry. No, no work on the game prior to the problem occurring. It just stated happening a couple of weeks ago. It's like the gremlins are getting into my pins and kicking out extra balls (my Rollergames started kicking out two balls into the shooter lane, but I was able to fix that by changing one of the switches in the ball trough). It doesn't happen all the time though so I will experiment/watches the switches more carefully to try and isolate the problem.

I checked all the switches (mechanical and opto) and all seem to be working (and also no credit dot). I've noticed the game wants to kick out a second ball whether or not one actually exists. In other words, it first makes the explosion sound and then shoots a ball out from above the pops, and then probably like 2 or 3 second latter, it makes the explosion sound again and if there is a second ball in the subway it kicks it out (so now I have 2 balls on the playfield) or if there isn't a second ball in the subway then even though it makes a second explosion sound nothing comes out. So basically something is telling the game to eject a ball out from above the poppers regardless of whether or not a second ball actually exists. Not sure if this matters, but I also noticed that when it does kick two balls out that when I get one back in the putting green that it then keeps that second ball in the subway (that is doesn't eject it) and lets me keep playing with the one ball. If it previously only kicked out 1 ball but made the explosion sound to kick out a second ball that didn't exist, then when I get the ball in the putting green it holds that ball and kicks another ball into the shooter lane. Any ideas or where else to check. Can the game say all the switches work, but there can still be switch matrix issues? I was doing some reading and it sounds like perhaps possibly one of the diodes has shorted (so I guess the switch still shows up as okay even in this situation)? I also noticed that the optos for the ball trough are in the same row as the ball popper that is incorrectly firing a second time. Not sure if that is relevant but wanted to point it out.

Thanks Terry. So basically the ball goes into the Putt Out at the back of the game and from there it passes through an Opto Switch (which I think is switch #44 (Putt Out Popper), but I don't think is the issue). It then rolls over a mechanical micro switch {which I think is switch #25 and which I think may be the issue and is listed as the "Underground Pass" on the Switch Matrix). The ball then rolls to and rests within the "Loop Assembly" (and where it rests there is another Opto switch #38, which is listed as the "Jet Popper" on the Switch Matrix) until the game activates the coil which then ejects the ball above the pops. The game makes the thunder/explosion sound just before the ball is ejected (whether it be the first ball being correctly ejected, or also when the second ball is incorrectly ejected a few second later (rather than just remaining in the subway). Even when there isn't a second ball in the underground pass/subway the game will still make the thunder/explosion sound and try to eject the non-existent second ball. I am thinking maybe I should replace the mechanical micro-switch and see if that fixes the problem. Not sure if opto switches can falsely show they are working in test mode like mechanical switches can, but if that is possible then I could replace the two opto switches involved here as well (just need to order all these switches since I don't have them on-hand). The only other opto switches that I think could be involved would be the ones in the ball trough (all tested fine though) in case somehow that is confusing the game and causing it to try and eject an extra ball from the subway (although I am unsure if that was the reason why it would also try and eject the phantom ball from the left jet popper as opposed to the one on the right side of the game.

Thanks again, Terry. Yes, sometimes there is only one ball in the loop assembly and other times two. It depends on whether or not I have locked the first ball via the left gofer (the right gofer has it's own subway/lock area and that ball is just ejected on the right side of the game, never entering the subway or loop assembly in question). When there is just one ball it crosses over the micro switch just before it rests over the coil that will eventually eject the ball. There is an opto switch right where the ball rests. When two balls are in the loop assembly/subway area, then one ball is resting over the coil (and is activating the opto switch there) and the second ball is right next to it (either on or just to the left of the micro switch - I can't tell as when I lift the playfield up the ball rolls back into the subway). My guess is that something is off with either that opto switch (#38), which I cleaned, or the micro switch (#25) since no matter which way the ball gets into that area (whether from the Putt Out in the back of the game, through the "Hole in One" entry point, or through the left Gofer) the same issue occurs (hence my thinking it is isolated to one of these two switches and not the switches further upstream, if that makes sense). I cleaned the optos in the trough but that didn't fix the problem.

Thanks for that suggestion. I just tried it this morning. I am not entirely familiar with the switch edge test, but if I was doing it correctly, it didn't seem to show anything other than when I pushed the "Up" "Down" and "Enter" buttons on the control panel within the coin door area (which the test did register). Other than that it didn't seem to show anything, at least to me, which I think means none of the switches are opening or closing on their own.

Thanks, I'll try the switch edge test (I did the individual switch test, which I am more familiar with, and everything was as it was supposed to be). As far as what triggers the game to put the ball into play, it depends. If it isn't a locked ball, meaning it just goes into the Putt Out in the back of the game, or enters via the Hole In One point, then it goes into the subway, rolls over the micro switch, ends up resting just above the coil (where the opto switch senses the ball) and then ejects. It always ejects the ball in those situations, and sometimes (but not always) tries to eject a second "phantom" ball (since there isn't really a second ball to eject). The other situation is that when I lock a ball via the left gofer, it then enters the subway, rolls over the micro switch, and as before, ends up resting just above the coil, but in this situation since the ball is locked the ball just stays there (that is, the game doesn't eject it, and in this situation it has never ejected this first ball when it isn't supposed to). However, when I then have a second ball enter the subway (either through the Putt Out in the back or the Hole in One shot), then the game will then eject the first ball (that has been resting there) and while it is supposed to keep the second ball (which is now resting where the first ball was) it sometimes also puts that second ball into play (so now two balls are on the playfield when there should only be one). If I then hit one of these two balls back into the Putt Out in the back the game will then hold that ball in the subway (as it should have from the very beginning), but if I drain one of those balls into the ball trough the game seems confused (like it's expecting the ball to be back in the subway and not the ball trough).

Actually ignore this part above - "If I then hit one of these two balls back into the Putt Out in the back the game will then hold that ball in the subway (as it should have from the very beginning), but if I drain one of those balls into the ball trough the game seems confused (like it's expecting the ball to be back in the subway and not the ball trough)." Just tried it and the game recognized the balls. It does get confused with the ball count from time to time (I think when I also have a ball locked behind the right gofer that is one less ball in the trough or subway, so when it kicks out two balls it thinks it only kicked out one, so when I drain those two, it gets confused, the game then goes into search mode, kicks out the ball from behind the right gofer, and then once I drain that ball or get it back into the subway, then it gets the correct count again. I haven't played around with this too much, and I think it only happens when one of the balls is locked behind the right gofer (which again is not connected to the subway), but wanted to point this out. Hopefully this is helpful and not confusing. In the end, I think it just points to the game being confused about the number of balls it has actually shot out of the subway/loop assembly (basically it sometimes just isn't registering the first ball so attempts to shoot out a second ball (whether or not one actually exists in the subway to actually shoot out).

Thanks again, Terry. Will do some more cleaning and testing tomorrow. Also just posted in the NGG club threat with a link to this thread. No magnets in the game. Appreciate all your help/advice. I've been able to fix my other games when they have had problems, but NGG is my most complicated game so struggling a little with this one. Hopefully I'll eventually fix it too. Have a great night/rest of the weekend.

I think it may be the micro switch (#25). I turned game sound off so I could really hear the ball movement in the subway. I also was able to consistently get the game to eject the second ball as follows: Began game and locked ball with left Gofer. Ball goes into subway and comes to rest in Loop Assembly (opto switch #38). Game always holds ball. Then I have a second ball enter the subway. It doesn't matter whether that balls enters from the Putt Out in the rear or the Hole In One (those use different switches). The game with then always eject the first ball at switch #38 (as it should), and then about 2 seconds later ejects the second ball (which it should not do). It does this even if I grab the first ball and take it off the playfield (so that nothing else is activating). I think that microswitch may be in the subway to keep track of the balls and by it not functioning correctly it's having an impact. I cleaned and tested all optos in the game and they work fine, and I also reflowed the solder on switch #25 and #38 but no change. I am going to order a new micro switch and opto switch and change those out and see what happens. Hopefully that fixes the problem. If not, I'll try Robert's suggestion (thanks) of focusing on the opto board (I did check that board, LED light stays on as solid red, and I detached and reconnected all the connectors, but that was the extent of my diagnostics on that board).

So a local Pinsider I am friends with agreed with the advice being given above, but also suggested to try moving the micro-switch a little. So I unscrewed it, tilted it as much as I could, and so far that seems to have fixed the problem! So I know have clean optos throughout the game (having cleaned them as part of this adventure) and so far that simple adjustment seems to have done the trick. Who would have thought moving the switch probably just a millimeter or two would have changed things (I also adjusted the loop assembly as well to fit as close as it could to the subway assembly). If it acts up again, I'm going to replace that switch (#25) since it could also be acting up sporadically as well. Thanks for everyone's input/help. Took some time, but I learned a lot about the switch matrix and switch tests in the process, which will serve me well in the future.

Definitely try that. My switch 25 tested fine as well. I had to move it (tilt it up) before tightening the screw that holds it. Try tilting it all the way in one direction and see if that works, and if it doesn't, try tilting it all the way up in the other direction. Mine has been fine ever since. Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

Congrats on fixing the issue!