(Topic ID: 290931)

No development in Pinball since 25 years

By touchtone

8 months ago


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  • 59 posts
  • 33 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by girloveswaffles
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    There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    -20
    #1 8 months ago

    As Medival Madness is still the Number One in the Pinside Top 100, it seems there is zero development in todays pinball industry. Joke. Get this machine ranked at 10 and its still to high

    18
    #2 8 months ago

    Well you see, pinball is kinda like cars...

    #3 8 months ago

    More people need to play The Heist...... Hard to talk crap about MM, that game is a solid classic.

    -11
    #4 8 months ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    Hard to talk crap about MM

    No its not.
    The jokes get boring real fast and while its a good game its no where near as good as some of the stuff coming out these days. Forget where its rated, means nothing. The fact that there are any 90's B/W in the top 10 just shows how ridiculous those ratings are.

    See that was easy.

    #5 8 months ago

    To be honest. Look at MM and the latest pin that just came out, which is Led Zeppelin. If I didn’t know a single thing about pinball and you showed me both machines, LZ Pro and MM, I’d guess MM was more modern. So in a way I could answer your question, and say not much has developed in 25 years.

    Realistically, if you look at WOZ, GnR, EHOH, Heist, Stranger Things LE, among other pins, you will see progression. What I’m excited about is different companies now trying to compete with each other. JJP pushed the envelope of progression with WOZ. I feel like American Pinball is about to surprise us with their next pin and enter the ring with JJP and Stern. I feel like Stern will up their game after seeing the success of JJP and hopefully American Pinball. I feel Spooky coming out with another great title. CGC has now entered the ring with their own title. So things are about to heat up and companies will really start to compete for your $. At least that’s what my crystal ball tells me.

    #6 8 months ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    The jokes get boring real fast

    Yeah, how many times can one stand to be stuck thinking "man, if this was Monty Python and the Holy Grail, it would have so much more staying power"?

    Sure, it proves comedy pins can work. But racy puns are only funny the first couple of times you hear them. (See: Scared Stiff)

    Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

    If I didn’t know a single thing about pinball and you showed me both machines, LZ Pro and MM, I’d guess MM was more modern.

    Except for the video screen and RGB LEDs everywhere, you mean?

    #7 8 months ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    No its not.
    The jokes get boring real fast and while its a good game its no where near as good as some of the stuff coming out these days. Forget where its rated, means nothing. The fact that there are any 90's B/W in the top 10 just shows how ridiculous those ratings are.
    See that was easy.

    Eh, I love mine every time I play it. The color gi kit made it even more fun. I'm not good at pinball so it is great, ever time

    #8 8 months ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    Except for the video screen and RGB LEDs everywhere, you mean?

    Fine both games in a showroom in the off position.

    Checkmate, lol.

    #9 8 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Well you see, pinball is kinda like cars...

    1962 Ferrari 250 GTO selling for $52 Million shows that there has been no development in cars since 59 years ago.
    As at least pinball in more up to date than cars.

    #10 8 months ago
    Quoted from touchtone:

    As Medival Madness is still the Number One in the Pinside Top 100, it seems there is zero development in todays pinball industry. Joke. Get this machine ranked at 10 and its still to high

    The only joke here is your post. The reason there are ratings is so that you can have your say. Vote for what you like best. If you are not happy with the hobby maybe it is time to find a new hobby.

    There is still plenty of demand for the game and I think it deserves its spot in the Pinside ratings.

    -7
    #11 8 months ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    Yeah, how many times can one stand to be stuck thinking "man, if this was Monty Python and the Holy Grail, it would have so much more staying power"?

    Sure, it proves comedy pins can work. But racy puns are only funny the first couple of times you hear them. (See: Scared Stiff)

    SS is the worst. I'm huge fan of comedy but it wouldn't have mattered if it was Monty P or not. 4 me there's only a few films that would work as funny pins where as I'm not contemplating suicide after 10 games. Strange Brew comes to mind. That's another thing, keep it to real comedy with delivery from real people who are actually funny. Elvira is not funny, voice actors doing funny pin qoutes written by pinball designers is even worse.

    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    There is still plenty of demand for the game and I think it deserves its spot in the Pinside ratings.

    I agree but regardless the pinside ratings r fuckin shit.

    -4
    #12 8 months ago
    Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

    So in a way I could answer your question

    Yeah the wrong way.

    Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

    and enter the ring with JJP and Stern

    JJP has even entered the ring with stern let alone AP.

    Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

    LZ Pro and MM, I’d guess MM was more modern.

    Until u play them of course.

    Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

    CGC has now entered the ring with their own title.

    They did?

    #13 8 months ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    I agree but regardless the pinside ratings r fuckin shit.

    I would like all our games to be rated better too!

    #14 8 months ago

    I have games that are rated high on the list. I have games most people have never heard of and I appreciate them all the same.

    #15 8 months ago
    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    I would like all our games to be rated better too!

    I don't give a shit if my pins are rated the best of all time or the worst. Seems like some pinsiders do.

    #16 8 months ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    I don't give a shit if my pins are rated the best of all time or the worst. Seems like some pinsiders do.

    That definitely seems to be some Pinsiders problem. I love all the games, I just love some more than others.

    -1
    #17 8 months ago
    Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

    Fine both games in a showroom in the off position.
    Checkmate, lol.

    Why would the games deserve a fine? What did they do wrong?

    Seriously, though: off -> checkmate? Hardly, the screen is still bigger and not a DMD, power or no power.

    Hell, I was mostly agreeing, about all the development you can see from the outside would be the screen and the color changing lights.

    But so what? What else is there to improve? If there were anything game changing left to invent, it'd be invented by now.

    #18 8 months ago

    The sound is a lot better on modern games. I think newer Stern also have a lot of smooth shots. There are some old games that have some clunky shots.

    #19 8 months ago

    What I want are 90s WMS playfields with modern Stern rules.

    #20 8 months ago
    Quoted from touchtone:

    As Medival Madness is still the Number One in the Pinside Top 100, it seems there is zero development in todays pinball industry. Joke. Get this machine ranked at 10 and its still to high

    What a provocative post. I don't think it's a "language" or "translation" thing. You're just trying to "stir the pot." Look it up, and move on. Thanks.

    #21 8 months ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    No its not.
    The jokes get boring real fast and while its a good game its no where near as good as some of the stuff coming out these days. Forget where its rated, means nothing. The fact that there are any 90's B/W in the top 10 just shows how ridiculous those ratings are.
    See that was easy.

    Wow you must not understand how to play a lot of these games.

    #22 8 months ago
    Quoted from gamera9:

    The sound is a lot better on modern games. I think newer Stern also have a lot of smooth shots. There are some old games that have some clunky shots.

    Add pinball pro sound for a $140. You can get a new sound cards etc. Give an example? I don’t think you have really deeply played many games. My best sounding game is Cactus Canyon running a Lepy Amp with pinball pro sound and 12 inch sub. Blows all my modern sterns away!

    -1
    #23 8 months ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    Wow you must not understand how to play a lot of these games.

    No I understand I have owned all of them, finished them all. Could it be that u have looked at my collection and yrs on pinside cause I used to be Hazoff. I've owned 100's of pins including all the top B/W. One thing I understand for sure is the modern games are much better all around and the 90's stuff while fun are generally pretty easy in comparison. I like them, thats what I played in my late teens early 20's. The best of my pinball years. I love to play today but those were the skipping school, getting high, arcade/poolhall/bowling alley times that will never be beat, no matter how good the games get. That being the modern stuff is better. Good day sir.

    I said good day.

    -2
    #24 8 months ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    My best sounding game is Cactus Canyon running a Lepy Amp with pinball pro sound and 12 inch sub. Blows all my modern sterns away!

    Crap-pola

    -1
    #25 8 months ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    No I understand I have owned all of them, finished them all. Could it be that u have looked at my collection and yrs on pinside cause I used to be Hazoff. I've owned 100's of pins including all the top B/W. One thing I understand for sure is the modern games are much better all around and the 90's stuff while fun are generally pretty easy in comparison. I like them, thats what I played in my late teens early 20's. The best of my pinball years. I love to play today but those were the skipping school, getting high, arcade/poolhall/bowling alley times that will never be beat, no matter how good the games get. That being the modern stuff is better. Good day sir.
    I said good day.

    Coming from a guy who likes deep games and owns all pro models. Lol. Pro models are great but not as deep. Sure!

    #26 8 months ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    understand I have owned all of them, finished them all. Could it be that u have looked at my collection and yrs on pinside cause I used to be Hazoff. I've owned 100's of pins including all the top B/W. One thing I understand for sure is the modern games are much better all around and the 90's stuff while fun are generally pretty easy in comparison. I like them, thats what I played in my late teens early 20's. The best of my pinball years. I love to play today but those were the skipping school, getting high, arcade/poolhall/bowling alley times that will never be beat, no matter how good the games get. That being the modern stuff is better. Good day sir.

    Brha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
    “I Think We Go A tough Guy Here!
    What a load....

    -2
    #27 8 months ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    Coming from a guy who likes deep games and owns all pro models. Lol. Pro models are great but not as deep. Sure!

    Wow that is spectacularly stupid.

    Not just the fact the ur looking at my collection and then passing judgement but how much deeper are Pre's and LE's than the Pro model. I use to buy nothing but LE's, and originally had a JP pre and a Maiden Pre. I happen to love system 11's and the more simple Sterns as well. I've owned many 80's Bally and Williams SStates. Enjoyed them all. Big fan of classic Stern as well. U sir are just digging urself more and more into the hole of douch-baggery and this is me being very kind.

    -2
    #28 8 months ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Brha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
    “I Think We Go A tough Guy Here!
    What a load....

    The B/W fanboy, getting more rare these days but just as ridiculous and the JJP fanboy it seems, maybe more. I love it when u get the "tough guy" response.

    #29 8 months ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    Wow that is spectacularly stupid.
    Not just the fact the ur looking at my collection and then passing judgement but how much deeper are Pre's and LE's than the Pro model. Did you master Avengers already? I use to buy nothing but LE's, and originally had a JP pre and a Maiden Pre. I happen to love system 11's and the more simple Sterns as well. I've owned many 80's Bally and Williams SStates. Enjoyed them all. Big fan of classic Stern as well. U sir are just digging urself more and more into the hole of douch-baggery and this is me being very kind.

    Do you even read what you write? I think you should go back to your old screen name and need to go buy some newer games. Obviously you are a Elwin fan. On many titles pre or le are much deeper. Take Avengers you are missing the hardest shot through the entire game. There is a big difference. I have owned both and some of the pros are great but not as complete. Avengers, Deadpool or TMNT the pre or le are a different level. You said you owned SS did you master it in those two weeks? Go call us all names as you think you are brilliant by it. Hazoff suits you better. We all knew who you where and saw you coming. If “mastering” a game is finishing it a few times you have a lot to look forward to once you figured out all you missed.

    #30 8 months ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    Why would the games deserve a fine? What did they do wrong?
    Seriously, though: off -> checkmate? Hardly, the screen is still bigger and not a DMD, power or no power.
    Hell, I was mostly agreeing, about all the development you can see from the outside would be the screen and the color changing lights.
    But so what? What else is there to improve? If there were anything game changing left to invent, it'd be invented by now.

    Charles H. Duell was the Commissioner of US patent office in 1899. Mr. Deull's most famous attributed utterance is that "everything that can be invented has been invented."

    #31 8 months ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    Avengers, Deadpool or TMNT the pre or le are a different level. You said you owned SS did you master it in those two weeks? Go call us all names as you think you are brilliant by it. Hazoff suits you better.

    No there not. I understand u paid more and have to defend the cost. I use to do that, sure there is more to the game in plenty of Pre/Le's but so far nothing drastic, nothing that makes it a must to upgrade. I did master SS in those 2 weeks. Its an easy game, MB same thing. Ok maybe if u remove the out lane posts and adjust the rules u can make it more of a challenge but stock? damn easy.

    "Go call us all names as you think you are brilliant by it" What?

    Oh and I don't read what I write I just randomly hits keys and hope its spells words. I think maybe u need to read what u write before posting. Why is "Did u master Avengers already?" in my quote. I never wrote that.

    Quoted from Onwallst:

    I think you should go back to your old screen name and need to go buy some newer games.

    What does this mean?

    I think maybe a very old person needs a nap? Good day sir.

    #32 8 months ago

    MM is a classic, I always throw a dozen coins in on location (and luckily MM is everywhere), but I wouldn't own one.
    It's a fun game but not much to do in the long run.

    One thing that has made a lot of progress through time is the depth of the code and the replayability of games, there is also more to see and more to hear.

    And then of course there's the pinbar, the greatest invention since the wheel !

    #33 8 months ago

    While we are on topics beaten to death, I was wondering what the best wax is.

    #34 8 months ago
    Quoted from pinballcorpse:

    While we are on topics beaten to death, I was wondering what the best wax is.

    Car wax.

    There. Cargument and waxument in one post.

    LTG : )

    #35 8 months ago

    I don't think the original post title is actually off by that much, I mean, nobody has done anything super radical in years, it has been mostly more of the same, just mixed up differently. Projectors on playfields and LEDS and LCDs and better sound and rules have been improvements, but the mechanics and basic layout is pretty etched in stone these days... Rick & Morty using a Bumper instead of sling and Ghostbusters magnoslings have been some interesting choices that go against the norms, but actual ball interactive toys and the like have not progressed much beyond Twilight Zone in complexity or uniqueness. Now would I say MM is top of form for modern day pinball, no. But TZ, as a basis for every machine that has come since it was produced, kind of fits that bill. If you were to update it to a larger LCD, showing actual clips from the series, would a modern day TZ look out of place next to modern Sterns? EHoH? Other than being a wide body? The rules are a bit shallow comparatively but over all, the toys and mechanics are on par with the machines today. Over the years, B/W made a lot of interactive toys and mechanisms that are the basis of every toy in a modern day machine. Innovation? I haven't really seen anything mind blowingly new in years that has actually done anything different than MB, IJtpa, MM, TOM, Totan, TZ, JD, etc... etc... when it comes to interaction with the ball/player. Just my $0.02

    #36 8 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Well you see, pinball is kinda like cars...

    Levi, how are you so fast when responding? Do you have bubble, price peak, innovation, developement, etc. somehow loaded to give you a notification?

    #37 8 months ago

    Servo motors, solenoids/actuators and magnets and simple bracket design. It got pared down over time to simplicity of function and hence lower cost BOM and reliability. There have been some cool features in later years leveraging that same technology, movie screen ramps in Stranger Things, super charged loop in Star Wars, the ship in JPPOTC, ball thrown in Aerosmith and Houdini etc. That tech works and is reliable and allows for a range of features like that.

    The competition between pin manufacturers is what will drive features. Competition also made the LCD get adopted by all of the pin manufacturers so that happens too. Stern developed the Spike system under-the-hood for that. Not gameplay innovation in that regard, but the LCD innovation is one important change in modern pins.

    Software has changed a lot since 1999, more memory more CPU. That's huge for gameplay rule innovation, music and callouts too I guess.

    MM castle bridge moves via a servo motor and the castle gate moves by a solenoid and actuator. The castle towers move via a solenoid and actuator and levers. It's simple and elegant. I own that B/W castle mech production drawing. Cool stuff.

    #38 8 months ago
    Quoted from pinballcorpse:

    While we are on topics beaten to death, I was wondering what the best wax is.

    Ear wax?

    #39 8 months ago

    And all this time I thought there were plenty enough threads to fight over pinball in.

    28409D23-75B6-448A-8029-6A96F116139F.gif
    #40 8 months ago

    Pin 2000 was a big game changer and would have just got better with more releases sad the doors were closed

    #41 8 months ago

    The rules and board game are outstanding on safecracker how about 13 ball multi ball for Apollo you can find plenty of innovations along the way

    #42 8 months ago

    We have yet to see how WiFi can just do more than update your game possibly show the person your playing in real time and the playfield that would be awesome and we all get to know each other on another level

    #43 8 months ago

    LEDs

    #44 8 months ago

    The code on some of the newer games is fantastic.

    But, there aren't really any new mechs that make you go 'wow'!

    #45 8 months ago

    A lot of people won’t admit it, but MM placing so consistently high has a lot to do with the castle being so cool. Toys are a lot of what makes a modern pin fun.

    #46 8 months ago
    Quoted from diode:

    We have yet to see how WiFi can just do more than update your game possibly show the person your playing in real time and the playfield that would be awesome and we all get to know each other on another level

    True but that’s the vanilla way to use it. If WiFi and lcds would have been around in the 90s pin designers would have done crazy things integrating your phone with the game like have the game display a pic it stole off your iPhone of a family member then have it burn up on the screen, in a horror themed game or something. Everything’s super safe now...

    #47 8 months ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    I mean, nobody has done anything super radical in years

    I think that's more due to us than anykind of manufacturer lack of innovation. I've said many times this peak is due to the 40 and 50 yr old's having money to buy games and relive our yute at home. U see the love around here for B/W games, I love them 2 and its pretty much the same designers. I can feel a difference in an Elwin game, even though theres really nothing really innovative going on, code maybe? What r they gonna do? Pinball 2000 was ok but if was really that amazing why hasn't anyone given it a try again? Here's the main thing for me anyway, I'm pretty happy with what I'm getting, except theme's but what else is new. I can't remember the name, which shows its popularity but that pin with the full screen PF and Lori Lightspeed, I don't know, that was a attempt at some change and it hasn't exactly taken the pinball world by storm.

    #48 8 months ago
    Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:

    A lot of people won’t admit it, but MM placing so consistently high has a lot to do with the castle being so cool. Toys are a lot of what makes a modern pin fun.

    I totally concur. I only played it in a local bar for half an hour and I enjoyed it but that castle shaking and crumbling effect and the moat and the drawbridge and the entrances and whacking at the front door topped them all and still does. Best implementation of a visual device perfectly fitting the theme. It's actually too good to be called a toy or a gimmick. Replace it with a toy castle that just sits there with some flashing lights in it and it would still be a great game but I doubt it would be considered as special as it is.

    #49 8 months ago
    Quoted from LordHumungus:

    I think that's more due to us than anykind of manufacturer lack of innovation. I've said many times this peak is due to the 40 and 50 yr old's having money to buy games and relive our yute at home. U see the love around here for B/W games, I love them 2 and its pretty much the same designers. I can feel a difference in an Elwin game, even though theres really nothing really innovative going on, code maybe? What r they gonna do? Pinball 2000 was ok but if was really that amazing why hasn't anyone given it a try again? Here's the main thing for me anyway, I'm pretty happy with what I'm getting, except theme's but what else is new. I can't remember the name, which shows its popularity but that pin with the full screen PF and Lori Lightspeed, I don't know, that was a attempt at some change and it hasn't exactly taken the pinball world by storm.

    Now he loves the bw games 2? And we are all 40-50 years old. Which is it? This guy is full of it. Hazoff, Hazoff, Hazoff. Go buy your new Elwin game. What is he 40-50? You have winner at 49!

    #50 8 months ago

    Kinda wondering what *innovation* the op is expecting?

    RGB lighting doesn't count.
    LCD doesn't count.
    Rulesets that go on for 10 pages don't count.

    You want wacky toys? Yes the castle in mm is cool. BOTH POTC games beat it. A ship that you hit and it sinks into the playfield? A ship's deck that not only rocks back and forth, but changes the speed to make it more difficult?

    MM remains number 1 in part because of nostalgia. It is a known quantity. It is an amazing game, but if it got released today with an updated display, it would probably just be *ok*.

    There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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