(Topic ID: 167785)

No back box key


By PJI5108

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by SirScott
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 3 years ago

    I just bought a Gulfstream and am planning to move it from the current owners basement. He doesn't have the key to the back box and I am wondering if I should try drilling the lock out to take the back box off or moving it with it on. It's not that far of a drive - about 4 miles, in town. I will look for the key around the coin door as has been suggested in other forums. Any suggestions?

    #2 3 years ago

    Open vehicle ? Don't do it with the back box up, it may break off on the drive home.

    LTG : )

    #3 3 years ago

    The factory original backbox key number would have been 288.

    #4 3 years ago

    If you can't find the key, you're going to have to drill the lock at some point anyway. Best to do it before you move it, and move the game with the head off. With modern cordless electric drills, you can almost drill out a simple back door lock faster than you can open it with a key.

    - TimMe

    #5 3 years ago

    Sounds like You have to drill it out anyways.
    Don't do all that extra work being careful when moving it and transporting.
    Just drill it out there ,it Only takes 30 seconds to drill it out.

    #6 3 years ago

    Thanks for the input.....I will get it open and removed prior to moving it.

    #7 3 years ago

    If they have a coin door key. Look inside the cabinet, sometimes the backbox key will be hanging just inside the door. (again, sometimes).

    #8 3 years ago

    Key was there! Back box removed for the move and is now in my basement. All good - thanks for the input.

    #9 3 years ago

    New to the site but if you guys are like me I wanna see pictures!

    3 weeks later
    #10 3 years ago

    Hey guys, Just picked a really sweet game. No backbox key. Didn't have a chance to look in the cab yet. What kind of bit does everyone use to drill out a lock? Any other tips?

    #11 3 years ago

    In your case, since you have posted that you have 13 pins. I would try keys from other pins you have. Jiggle the key while turning and one might work.
    Also auto gas cap keys, the keys for most storage locks on the lower storage bins on trailers and RV's, only if they fit into the lock, with out forcing it in. May also work.

    "Locks are there to keep honest people honest"

    #12 3 years ago

    The backbox key was ALWAYS hanging inside the coin door and sometimes you have to look really hard to find it.

    Many times it drops inside the cabinet as well.

    I truly doubt it is missing.

    #13 3 years ago

    I still have to actually pick this up, and the lighting is horrible, and I have little faith that the key will be in the cab (the door keys where diligently kept on a specific key chain and until today, were not used for 14 years. It would seem unlikely that the bb keys would be inside, especially since the owner over-paid "retail" from a restorer back then.

    Just for grins--what kind of bit do you use to drill the lock. Humor me.

    #14 3 years ago

    These locks are usually just cheap "wafer tumbler" locks, probably easier to "pick" than to drill. Start with some other keys as Darcy suggested. You might get lucky. Hopefully your backbox key is hanging on the coin mechanism and you won't have to Macgyver it. I've never had to drill out a lock. Maybe check out the backbox on a similar machine to make sure that drilling the lock won't damage the "backglass holder thingy"

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from albummydavis:

    Hey guys, Just picked a really sweet game. No backbox key. Didn't have a chance to look in the cab yet. What kind of bit does everyone use to drill out a lock? Any other tips?

    A bloody big one
    In, out, big Mess, but job done

    Have also found a big screwdriver can do the trick, you only have to flex the top of the back box slightly to lever the door off

    #16 3 years ago

    The backbox keys were never taken out of the machine. They were ALWAYS hanging inside the door.

    The only time they might have been removed is by a home collector but I have never seen this.

    Take a torch (flashlight) and have a good hunt around inside before mashing the lock.

    #17 3 years ago

    I always have very good luck using a small diameter drill bit as it is very fast and doesn't make much of a mess. 5/32" is my preferred bit size, but anything around that should work. Avoid anything larger than 3/16" or you'll just be drilling out a bunch of the lock barrel for no good reason.

    Be sure to use a nice sharp drill bit, dull bits are not good for this task. Also, since you're cutting metal, you'll want to put some kind of lubricant on the cutting tool. If you have cutting oil put that on the drill bit, otherwise just put some 3-in-1 oil on it.

    Run the drill bit right into the center of the lock and go straight back. 99% of the time, the tip of the drill bit will zip down the nearly empty middle of the lock barrel in about 1 second, where it will hit the mounting screw for the lock tab and unscrew it instantly. This will cause the lock tab to fall off the back side of the lock, and you'll be done.

    If you have one of the 1% unlucky locks that won't drill out this way, then you will need to start running larger and larger bits down the center of the lock until you get it.

    When I'm drilling a lock at a customer's house, I always throw a shop towel on the floor below where I'm drilling to catch metal shavings and oil.

    - TimMe

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from albummydavis:

    Hey guys, Just picked a really sweet game. No backbox key. Didn't have a chance to look in the cab yet. What kind of bit does everyone use to drill out a lock? Any other tips?

    I've always just used a "regular" bit about as thick as the entry hole is tall, and probably even then a little smaller.

    Worked like a charm. I didn't use anything else (lube, etc.) like some people recommend, I just pushed hard and kept at it and eventually got it in there, albeit for an arcade game, but same thing. After that the lock pretty much falls apart and you're in.

    And also, yes, I do realize how much of a disaster I've just perfectly set myself up for with that last line...

    (Also, the lube is probably a good idea, still in terms of lock drilling)

    #19 3 years ago

    OMG. All the drilling and prying comments make me cringe. Y'all sure like to do things the hard way. Oh, and never lube first. Try dry then if it won't pick, lube. You can't "unlube" it afterwards.

    image (resized).jpeg

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    OMG. All the drilling and prying comments make me cringe. Y'all sure like to do things the hard way. Oh, and never lube first. Try dry then if it won't pick, lube. You can't "unlube" it afterwards.

    Umm.. where can we buy that kit?

    #21 3 years ago

    Instead of drilling, why not by a security bit set from Harbor Freight. There is the perfect sized bit in the set to remove the locks. Just a suggestion, that way if you are just looking at a machine, before you buy it, you can open it without damaging anything(remember to check the pcb's when its open) and you can put it back if you find some damage. http://www.harborfreight.com/33-pc-security-bit-set-68459.html

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    OMG. All the drilling and prying comments make me cringe. Y'all sure like to do things the hard way. Oh, and never lube first. Try dry then if it won't pick, lube. You can't "unlube" it afterwards.

    I'll second this. Once you buy a kit and watch a few Youtube videos you will be shocked at just how unsecure everything you own is. Most cheap locksets, like on your house's front door, can be opened as fast with picks as they can with a key. Good padlocks take longer but its only a matter of time and they come open too.

    There is very little skill involved, none actually.

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from 7Warpig7:

    I'll second this. Once you buy a kit and watch a few Youtube videos you will be shocked at just how unsecure everything you own is. Most cheap locksets, like on your houses front door, can be opened as fast with picks as they can with a key. Good padlocks take longer but its only a matter of time and they come open too.
    There is very little skill involved, none actually.

    Some jurisdictions will not allow you to own 'break in kits' or 'lock pick sets'. If you or your company doesn't require you to use them. With out a requirement of some kind of registration, on file with the local police, or local community.

    #24 3 years ago

    Not sure about Canada but in MOST states it is completely legal to own and use pick sets as long as you are not using them as burglary tools. You can go to the national locksmith association (ALOA) to see different states or call them and ask. BTW I have been a full time locksmith since high school (1981) so I guess I am cheating. You don't need a full set, one good turning wrench and a full rake pick for about $5 is all you need.

    image (resized).jpeg

    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from 7Warpig7:

    There is very little skill involved, none actually.

    Sounds like a challenge I will accept. There IS a skill involved just like there are varied techniques required for different locks.

    #26 3 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    Sounds like a challenge I will accept. There IS a skill involved just like there are varied techniques required for different locks.

    I am by no means trying to disparage any professional locksmiths. Certainly some locks are harder than others and while it might take me 20 minutes to get open a Master Lock padlock, its possible that it only takes you 20 seconds. I just meant that anyone, with no skill, can drag the rake tool in and out and most everyday locks will open eventually. Some shockingly fast.

    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from 7Warpig7:

    I am by no means trying to disparage any professional locksmiths. Certainly some locks are harder than others and while it might take me 20 minutes to get open a Master Lock padlock, its possible that it only takes you 20 seconds. I just meant that anyone, with no skill, can drag the rake tool in and out and most everyday locks will open eventually. Some shockingly fast.

    Your absolutely correct. But sometimes you never know. Some very expensive locks are easy, some cheap ones are hard and sometimes the same brand can be easy or impossible just depending on wear, the cuts on the key etc. Sometimes you can pick a lock the wrong direction locked but not unlocked. That's what the red handled tool in my picture is for. It flips the plug past the shear line so quickly in the correct direction the pins do not have a chance to relock. As with anything it's about knowing the tricks and having the correct tools.

    #28 3 years ago

    No key? Drill. 10 seconds later you are in. Replacement lock is $4.

    #29 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    No key? Drill. 10 seconds later you are in. Replacement lock is $4.

    This. ^^ The customer has lost the keys, remember? So the lock has to be replaced anyway, and locksets for games are cheap.

    Locksmithing is obviously very useful, and I admire the skill set, but I don't see any advantage to applying that much expertise in this context. I'm not a locksmith, and it's unlikely I would be very good at it.

    What I'm really good at is fixing vintage coin-op games. Just this year alone, I've had to replace about 20 game locks due to lost keys. I don't want the first thing my customer sees is me futzing around trying to pick a lock for 10 minutes. A cordless drill and 3 seconds later I'm in the machine and making repairs, which is why I'm there. I really don't think that, for my situation, this is "doing it the hard way."

    - TimMe

    #30 3 years ago

    I would drill bring a cordless and extra battery with diff sets of drill bit sizes. usually they turn open once u get to a certain point. now if you run into a stripped head bolt like I did you literally have to drill the whole bolt head off! bring a wired one for that job!

    #31 3 years ago

    Even if you pick the lock, you will still need a key. Unless you want to pick it every time you open it....

    #32 3 years ago
    Quoted from TimMe:

    I don't want the first thing my customer sees is me futzing around trying to pick a lock for 10 minutes. A cordless drill and 3 seconds later I'm in the machine and making repairs, which is why I'm there. I really don't think that, for my situation, this is "doing it the hard way."
    - TimMe

    That's fine if you are talking about a $3 lock and I understand what you are saying but I can pick the lock with no damage before you can get the drill from the truck. You really want to mess with them, pick the lock, look in the keyhole with a scope and cut the correct key without ever touching the lock.
    My favorite thing to do on cars that still have door keys and keys locked inside is look at the key laying in the seat, walk to the truck and cut the key and hand it to them to open the door. Keys are easy to "read" if you know the rules for each type. I can cut most keys just by looking at the cuts. Especially car keys.

    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Even if you pick the lock, you will still need a key. Unless you want to pick it every time you open it....

    Once you pick the lock, you just remove and replace it. You wouldn't keep using it.

    #34 3 years ago

    Lock picking and safe cracking are two skills I always dreamed of mastering.

    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    That's fine if you are talking about a $3 lock and I understand what you are saying but I can pick the lock with no damage before you can get the drill from the truck. You really want to mess with them, pick the lock, look in the keyhole with a scope and cut the correct key without ever touching the lock.
    My favorite thing to do on cars that still have door keys and keys locked inside is look at the key laying in the seat, walk to the truck and cut the key and hand it to them to open the door. Keys are easy to "read" if you know the rules for each type. I can cut most keys just by looking at the cuts. Especially car keys.

    Not to mention the metal shavings all over the place, inside and outside the machine. I can't cut keys but I can keep a box of old locks and keys around. Then I change out the wafers in the lock to match a key I do have. Especially in older games. I'd rather have the original style lock in there than some shiny chrome lock when the rest of the machine has 40 years of patina. Definitely faster than vacuuming up a bunch of metal shavings.

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Lock picking and safe cracking are two skills I always dreamed of mastering.


    Safe cracking (resized).JPG

    #37 3 years ago
    Quoted from 7Warpig7:

    Not to mention the metal shavings all over the place, inside and outside the machine.

    These welding magnets work well when drilling.

    Magnet (resized).JPG

    #38 3 years ago

    Wow
    I just logged in to ask the same question! Picking up an Atlantis tomorrow with the same issue. The owners have owned it for 15 years and never opened the back box or lifted up the playfield...... Didn't know how! Coin door doesn't have a lock set in it.
    Thanks for the advice.

    #39 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Lock picking and safe cracking are two skills I always dreamed of mastering.

    Start with the single-bit wafer lock--you will fee like a genius in about 10 minutes,

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