(Topic ID: 336210)

Nitro Ground Shaker will not boot

By Geomath

11 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

016C88C5-618E-4A61-855C-EA230C492FA3 (resized).jpeg
115BE4E1-5D14-4BA2-BF12-F55F98BF443A (resized).jpeg
9499BA6C-57F6-435E-9B02-076EFEC45E39 (resized).jpeg
2A87AFCE-1EBB-4A43-879A-81D7D13DCADE (resized).jpeg
EE9E1059-62DD-431D-A189-5465C4D719CF (resized).jpeg
889B8753-84CF-4080-B726-800415E5606F (resized).jpeg
#1 11 months ago

Hoping for some help with my Nitro Ground Shaker. Pin was working 100% until recently when it refused to boot! My initial thought was to replace the rectifier. This decision was not based on any great repair or troubleshooting skills I possess but rather simply the poor condition of the original board. It appears tho have been repaired (rather sloppily) many times and actually appeared burned. Figured I needed a new one anyway so I replaced it with a new X-Pin Rectifier-2518-18 purchased from Pinball Wizard. This did not change anything! At this point,my great troubleshooting skills convinced me that I probably needed a new MPU. Once again this decision was based on overall condition/appearance of the original board. There was significant battery acid damage that had been somewhat mitigated at some point but the board still looks to be in poor condition. Since this is my favorite machine, i did not hesitate to order a new Ultimate MPU from Pinball Wizard. It was during the pre-installation checks for this board that I found some voltages that lead me to believe the problem may actually be with the solenoid driver board. I have not connected the new board and now believe my old board may actually be ok. I am hoping someone can make some sense out of the numbers listed below and help guide me in the correct direction.

Rectifier X-PIN-2518-18
TP1 = 6.35 vdc
TP2 = 228 vdc
TP3 = 10.72 vdc
TP5 = 45.2 vdc

Original Bally solenoid driver board AS 2518-22
TP1 = 4.07 vdc
TP2 =166.4 vdc
TP3 = 3.87 vdc
TP4 = 251 vdc
TP5 = 10.59 vdc

Thanks in advance for any help received!
George

#2 11 months ago
Quoted from Geomath:

I found some voltages that lead me to believe the problem may actually be with the solenoid driver board.

Indeed, the TP5 voltage on the solenoid driver board should be between 14.5V -16.5V DC. The large C23 electrolytic capacitor in the middle of the solenoid driver board is responsible for raising it up from the 11V mark. The capacitor has either failed or lost connection, more likely the latter from a bad connection at the J3 connector.

The low TP5 voltage is resulting in the 5V power for the MPU board being too low (you measured 4.07V at TP1 and normally this should be around 5.2V) and that's why the MPU board isn't booting.

Post some clear high res pictures of the solenoid driver board so we can look at it.

#3 11 months ago

Quench has you on the right track George. Here is further reading on that era Bally: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Bally/Stern#MPU_boot_issues

#4 11 months ago
016C88C5-618E-4A61-855C-EA230C492FA3 (resized).jpeg016C88C5-618E-4A61-855C-EA230C492FA3 (resized).jpeg115BE4E1-5D14-4BA2-BF12-F55F98BF443A (resized).jpeg115BE4E1-5D14-4BA2-BF12-F55F98BF443A (resized).jpeg2A87AFCE-1EBB-4A43-879A-81D7D13DCADE (resized).jpeg2A87AFCE-1EBB-4A43-879A-81D7D13DCADE (resized).jpeg889B8753-84CF-4080-B726-800415E5606F (resized).jpeg889B8753-84CF-4080-B726-800415E5606F (resized).jpeg9499BA6C-57F6-435E-9B02-076EFEC45E39 (resized).jpeg9499BA6C-57F6-435E-9B02-076EFEC45E39 (resized).jpegEE9E1059-62DD-431D-A189-5465C4D719CF (resized).jpegEE9E1059-62DD-431D-A189-5465C4D719CF (resized).jpeg
#5 11 months ago

The black and orange wires hanging off the board is someones attempt to fix a bad J3 connector by bypassing it.

The black wire actually goes to the negative leg of the big C23 capacitor and I'd suspect it may have had a bad connection in that twist socket.
Before spending any more money on boards that connector should be fixed because one of your other test point (TP3) voltages was a little off again because of that connector.

Now you can actually mask these two connector issues by performing the following "upgrades" on the solenoid driver board and in your position I'd do these before anything else:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Bally/Stern#Solenoid_Driver_Upgrades

#6 11 months ago

As Quench says, job 1 should be to replace the J3 connector. Those original IDC type connectors are pretty much one and done so I recommend ordering a new KK style rebuild kit.

Big Daddy's eBay store is back up and you can get a complete solenoid driver kit from him. You can visit his store here: ebay.com link: str

Kits to order:
ebay.com link: itm

And you should replace the original filter caps: ebay.com link: itm

I'm not sold on rebuilding the entire board but I do recommend jumpering J3-25 to pin 13.

Until you get the 5v operational its a good idea to hold off on installing the new MPU.

#7 11 months ago

I want to thank everyone for all the help so far! Gonna be a great learning experience with all of your expert help. I have so far performed the upgrades suggested by Quench with no real change. TP1 = 4.0, TP2 = 166, TP3 = 4.0, TP4 =252, TP5 = 10.65. I did attempt to re flow a few (what looked like cold solder joints) and I verified good connection where wires had been soldered onto the board for the bad J3 connector. Even though this board has its issues, I am not ready to give up on it and am ready to take BigAL56's advice and order the connectors with headers and cap kit to attempt a rebuild unless there is valid reason to scrap this board and just order a new one? Thoughts??? Opinions???

#8 11 months ago

The solenoid driver boards are pretty reliable once you get them going. That one looks like a fine candidate to fix. Repin that J3 connector, change both main filter caps (C23 filters your 5v and the other silver one to the left filters the display voltage, Id suggest changing both), reflow all header pins (also check solder joints on the 6 pin relay above J2, I find they are commonly on the verge of breaking but not quite broken yet). I suggest removing the old solder with a solder sucker and applying new solder instead of mixing new solder with the old. If you're not strong on soldering practice on a scrap electronics board.

https://www.arcadepartsandrepair.com/store/pinball-kits-parts/pinball-kits/bally-as-2518-22-solenoid-driver-pcb-105c-cap-kit/
You can also get the crimps and connectors from this site, although I dont think they sell a kit there. I think these caps are better quality than what Big Daddy sells

#9 11 months ago

Set your multi-meter to AC voltage.
Put the black meter probe on the negative (left) screw connection of the big blue capacitor in the middle of the solenoid driver board.
Put the red meter probe on the positive (right) screw connection of the big blue capacitor.
How much AC voltage do you read?

Next, move the black meter probe to any ground point leaving the red meter probe on the right screw terminal on the big blue capacitor.
How much AC voltage do you read?

Measurements should be in the 300 millivolts (aka 0.3 volts) range so the tests will give us more insight.

#10 11 months ago

Quench, with my meter set to 200ac I see 22.4 and the same off of the ground terminal on the board.

#11 11 months ago
Quoted from Geomath:

I see 22.4 and the same off of the ground terminal on the board.

That's abnormally high and doesn't make much sense. Probably time to replace that capacitor.

If you're inclined do these last measurements.
Meter set to 20VDC scale.
Black meter probe on the GND test point on the solenoid driver board (left side of he board) and keep it there.
What voltages do you measure on each screw terminal of the big blue C23 capacitor?

#12 11 months ago

Quench, thank you for the continued help with this. I have ordered the cap kit and the complete connector kit. Should be here tomorrow! When testing the Capacitor on 20vdc, I see 10.69 vdc on the positive side and 0 vdc on the negative side.

#13 11 months ago
Quoted from Geomath:

I see 10.69 vdc on the positive side and 0 vdc on the negative side.

Ok, that says the capacitor is "connected", i.e. it's not malfunctioning because of a bad connector upstream.

For sanity sake, can I get you to grab one more voltage measurement.
Disconnect the long J3 connector from the X-Pin rectifier board.
Power on and measure the DC voltage at test point TP3 on the rectifier board. Just want to make sure the low voltage at the solenoid driver board isn't because of a bad bridge rectifier on the new rectifier board. With J3 disconnected this test is effectively done with the solenoid driver board disconnected from the rectifier board.

Quoted from Geomath:

I have ordered the cap kit and the complete connector kit.

If you don't already have one, you'll need a crimping tool for the connector terminals that are crimped to the wires.

#14 11 months ago

Quench, I’m showing 10.72vdc with J3 connected and 11.22 disconnected. Also, I do have crimpers

#15 11 months ago
Quoted from Geomath:

Quench, I’m showing 10.72vdc with J3 connected and 11.22 disconnected.

It went up! That's weird. Well the issue isn't the bridge rectifier on the rectifier board then.

Hopefully once you've redone the connectors and changed the capacitors you'll be up and running again.

#16 11 months ago

Wanna say thank you all for all the awesome help! Probably the most important thing learned here is to ask for help before randomly buying parts. I am guilty of this but lesson learned. I replaced a rectifier that I did not need and bought a new MPU that I will save for use later. Both parts were upgrades and I am not unhappy about either but the best news is that my Nitro Ground Shaker is back working 100% thanks to all of your help. Special thanks to Quench! So after replacing the caps and repinning the J3 connector on the solenoid driver board, everything is working great now. Voltages on the solenoid driver if anyone is interested we’re as follows: TP1 and TP3 = 5.15 vdc, TP2 = 165.7 vdc, TP4 = 252 vdc and TP5 = 14.11 vdc.

#17 11 months ago
Quoted from Geomath:

Wanna say thank you all for all the awesome help! Probably the most important thing learned here is to ask for help before randomly buying parts. I am guilty of this but lesson learned.

Dont sweat it, most people make this mistake when starting out. Good to hear its up and running again

#18 11 months ago
Quoted from Geomath:

the best news is that my Nitro Ground Shaker is back working 100%
TP2 = 165.7 vdc

Good to hear!
Ok I suggest you dial up the display high voltage to around 180 volts. At 165.7VDC it's putting more stress on the high voltage circuitry because it needs to dissipate more power/heat. There is a little trimpot control above TP2 on the solenoid driver board to adjust the voltage. There's high voltage in the area so be careful not to slip.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 18.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 5.95
Playfield - Protection
The Pinball Scientist
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
From: $ 14.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 8.00
Tools
Nezzy's Pinball Prints
 
From: $ 170.00
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nitro-ground-shaker-will-not-boot and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.