(Topic ID: 178623)

Nitro ground shaker lighting problem help

By MJW

7 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 29 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by MJW
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 years ago

Not every time but sometimes when the outlane switches are triggered , all the machine computer controlled lamps start to flash. It looks just like a lamp test mode. Once a new switch is triggered the lights all go back to normal. This is an intermittent problem and was wondering if anyone had any ideas . It seems the switches are activating the light test but they should be on different circuits. The lamp board, mpu, and solenoid board are all new aftermarket replacements. I thought it was a ground issue because the backbox ground was not secured. Fixed that but still have problem. Then I thought the issue was only present with the playfield glass and lockbar off . It was not and happens with glass and lockbar installed.

Game has full LEDs and alltek lamp board.

#2 7 years ago

Bump. I've read on pinwicki the coin door test button is not even in the switch matrix. I'm puzzled how a playfield switch would trigger lamp test. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

#3 7 years ago

Self test switch not part of switch matrix. A single signal is sent to self test switch via j-3-1 connector on mpu to ground via connector j-2-7 on solenoid driver board. I see that I have a loose wire and nothing is connected to J-2-7 on solenoid driver board. Maybe that yellow wire goes into connector j-2-7? My self self test switch does work . I'll keep digging and try looking at schematics...

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#4 7 years ago

Correction I counted wrong. There is a wire in j-2-7 . Not sure where that yellow wire is supposed to go.

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#5 7 years ago

Pinsider suggested I check outlane switches for shorts. Found none. I've been monitoring game for when my problem happens. All computer controlled light flash continuous whenever outlanes are triggered with special lights lit . It also happens when extra ball is lit and achieved after dropping all four drop targets. These are the only conditions which causes all controlled lamps to light .

My yellow loose wire in backbox should go to last connector for mpu j-3 according to the manual. Seems to be a return for a cab switch. I don't think this is related to my problem. Kind of stuck from here. Not getting any responses. If I ever figure it out I'll post what the cause was. I hate when I find someone had same issue as me but never bothered to post what fixed the problem..

#6 7 years ago

That loose yellow wire is supposed to go into pin 16 (bottom most) of that J3 connector of the MPU board. It's the return wire from the Slam Tilt switch on the coin door (unrelated to your problem). Someone has ripped that wire out of the connector and bent the end of the terminal straight.

Do you have the two CLK SPEED jumpers (top left area on the MPU board) set to Bally?

With all the drop targets reset up and the ball removed from the outhole, when you go to the Switch Test in self test mode, are the player displays indicating any closed switches? When you press either outlane switch, is the correct outlane switch number being displayed on the player displays (i.e. 33 for the right outlane, 34 for left outlane)?

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

That loose yellow wire is supposed to go into pin 16 (bottom most) of that J3 connector of the MPU board. It's the return wire from the Slam Tilt switch on the coin door (unrelated to your problem). Someone has ripped that wire out of the connector and bent the end of the terminal straight.
Do you have the two CLK SPEED jumpers (top left area on the MPU board) set to Bally?
With all the drop targets reset up and the ball removed from the outhole, when you go to the Switch Test in self test mode, are the player displays indicating any closed switches? When you press either outlane switch, is the correct outlane switch number being displayed on the player displays (i.e. 33 for the right outlane, 34 for left outlane)?

Thanks for the reply!!! I'm heading to work but will check when I get home tonight.

#8 7 years ago

Just installed a alltek mpu so I'm pretty certain speed jumpers are set to bally. That was a install step. I will verify though and look at the other things you mention. Problem was present prior to mpu swap. Also had problem before I did a playfield swap. It was a populated playfield with its own harness.

#9 7 years ago

I'm useing a different playfield harness and still have the problem.

#10 7 years ago

Quick speed set to right for bally mpu. Removed ball from out hole.standups reset up No switches closed in test . Outlane switch number are showing correct when triggered switches.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from MJW:

Problem was present prior to mpu swap.

Does this mean the flashing light behavior also occurred with an original Bally MPU board, or was the previous MPU board also an Alltek?
Try putting the clock speed jumpers on Stern MPU-200 mode. Someone recently with a Stern machine was having unusual behavior with an Alltek and when they changed the clock speed jumpers to Bally mode, their problem went away.

#12 7 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Does this mean the flashing light behavior also occurred with an original Bally MPU board, or was the previous MPU board also an Alltek?
Try putting the clock speed jumpers on Stern MPU-200 mode. Someone recently with a Stern machine was having unusual behavior with an Alltek and when they changed the clock speed jumpers to Bally mode, their problem went away.

Yes. Unfortunatley flashing light behavior was also present with stock mpu which I just replaced.

#13 7 years ago

Still no resolution. A pinside buddy is going to lend me a new board set. Even though all my boards are new maybe one is the problem. Don't know what else to try. Same problem with two different playfield harnesses so I'm eliminating that as possible source .

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from MJW:

flashing light behavior was also present with stock mpu

In that case, you've got a quirky issue there..
I really can't see it being the lamp driver board but have you tried the original Bally LDB? (ignoring the fact that some LEDs will flicker)

The flashing lamp test in service mode is not designed to be accessible from within game mode. Unless this game has some hidden builtin mode for it, maybe configurable by the dipswitches?? Just for kicks, see what happens if you invert all 32 dip switches on the MPU board.

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

In that case, you've got a quirky issue there..
I really can't see it being the lamp driver board but have you tried the original Bally LDB? (ignoring the fact that some LEDs will flicker)
The flashing lamp test in service mode is not designed to be accessible from within game mode. Unless this game has some hidden builtin mode for it, maybe configurable by the dipswitches?? Just for kicks, see what happens if you invert all 32 dip switches on the MPU board.

Good ideas. I don't have the factory lamp board but i do have an untested one I can try .By invert do you mean set all dip switches opposite of current position? Do you think power driver board would gave any influence on my problem? It's a rottendog and not alltek. Seems problem has to be in one of boards or backbox connector/ harness. Do you agree? Thanks

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from MJW:

By invert do you mean set all dip switches opposite of current position?

Yes, set the switches to opposite of what they are.

I can't see how any of the boards (other than the MPU) have the ability to cause the lamps to flash exactly like lamp test mode. It's partly why I suggested changing the dip switches incase you've somehow enabled some sort of hidden feature. I tried toying around with it in emulation but didn't manage to simulate your issue.
The only lamp I notice that flashes during game mode is the Same Player Shoots Again lamp though it flashes quicker than lamp test mode. Not sure if that's somehow relevant.

Does the problem also occur when all drop targets are up? (in the odd chance there's some switch matrix issue)
When the flashing lamp problem occurs, if you knock down a drop target do the lamps stop flashing? (drop targets are the only switches that don't change any lamp states)

Since connector wiring has been tampered with, feel free to post clear pics of the J1 MPU connector and the J4 lamp driver board connector and we can check the wire colors against the schematics.

#17 7 years ago

Well I switched all dip settings to the exact opposite settings. Problem stopped. I then switched each setting back one at a time and tried to trigger the problem. When I got to switches 25 through 32 the problem came back. These settings seem to be for sound setting of all things. This bank of switches needed to be set the exact opposite of my original settings for the problem to not happen . Very strange. Not fond of the new sound settings but happy game is functioning properly.

Thanks for sticking with me Quench !!!! Pinside is a great thing for this hobby.

#18 7 years ago

Problem occurred only when scored outlane specials or all drop down target special ..

#19 7 years ago

Can you list your configuration of ALL 32 dip switch settings that produces the flashing lamp issue?
If I can simulate the problem then maybe something can be done about it

Just confirming, is this the easiest way to see the problem?
1. Activate the top saucer switch as many times as required to get the bonus up to the point of lighting the outlane specials.
2. Activating an outlane switch with specials lit, then causes all lamps to start flashing
3. Then activate any other switch and all flashing lamps stop and return to their normal state

#20 7 years ago

Ok. Will do. This photo is the exact opposite of my current settings. I used this old CPU as A guide to put opposite settings on the new installed alltek mpu . The only way I saw the problem is making switches A thru F to enable outlane specials OR dropping target bank until special light in front of targets is lit and achieved and drop all targets. . Number one situation with saucer that you listed does not seem to have any effect. Must score A thru F to light outlane Special.
I hope you realize how thankful I am for you to take the time to help me. It is much appreciated.

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#21 7 years ago

Correct. Any other switch activated would stop the lamp test flashing problem....

#22 7 years ago

Hmm, I can't replicate it in emulation.
I tried setting every switch as per your Bally MPU photo and then with them all inverted.
Also tried with all dip switches set as per your Alltek photo and then inverting them.

The manual states outlane specials is lit when you have both bonuses either at 10k, 15k or 20k bonus depending on dip switches 14 and 15. There's no mention of the A thru F switches specifically lighting the outlane specials.

Anyway as you suggested, I basically just activated the A thru F switches multiple times until the outlane specials light. Then hit the outlane special switch and no unusual behavior.
Also tried the same with the drop targets until specials was lit, then activated all the drop target switches again and no problem.

The original Bally MPU board that exhibited the problem, what are the details written/inscribed on the U1, U2 and U6 ROMs?

#23 7 years ago

Please see photos .. This is factory mpu.

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#24 7 years ago

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#25 7 years ago

Thanks for that.
Your U1 ROM is version E-776-10 whereas the publicly available one is E-776-17

So I wonder if this is a bug with the older "-10" version.. Although you'd assume the Alltek is using the latest but hard to know.
Do you have an EPROM programmer to dump it?

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Thanks for that.
Your U1 ROM is version E-776-10 whereas the publicly available one is E-776-17
So I wonder if this is a bug with the older "-10" version.. Although you'd assume the Alltek is using the latest but hard to know.
Do you have an EPROM programmer to dump it?

No sir. Don't even know what a EPROM programmer is .... Yeah you would think Alltek would not use an older version.

#27 7 years ago

It's not the roms. I have the same ones in my game.

Very curious issue you're having

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#28 7 years ago

My switch settings for reference

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#29 7 years ago
Quoted from Slim64:

My switch settings for reference

Thanks for the input. My issue has not reappeared with my current settings. I'm a happy camper.

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