(Topic ID: 123617)

Nine Ball Club... (all welcome)

By mof

8 years ago


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There are 1,309 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 27.
#851 3 years ago

I just purchased a NB PF from Mirco. Thanks for donating your PF as a template DuffysArcade .

#852 3 years ago
Quoted from DuffysArcade:

After providing the donor playfield to Mirco for reproduction purposes, I am still struggling with getting my Nine Ball back together and working properly. I have a few issues with the game and I'm not too knowledgeable about Nine Ball so I was wondering if this behavior is normal:
1. When the ball is dropped into the shooter lane, I somehow score 3,000 points for nothing. I can't find any switches closed anywhere.
2. The 8-bank drop target does not always reset all targets properly. Sometimes they all stay up, sometimes it resets, and 1, 2, 3 or more of the targets fall immediately. They aren't being dropped by the small coils...they just dont stay up. It seems completely random.
3. If I shoot a ball into the lock before the 5-ball target has been dropped, it scores points for all of the targets that are still UP. Is this normal behavior?
4. Sometimes I am able lock 2 balls and the game just sits there, never shoots out a third ball. Is this a known bug in the game?
I really appreciate any help.

1) Remove the balls from the game, reset all the drop targets, and put the game in switch test. Then try banging around on the playfield with the bottom of your fist. See if any switches come up on the displays as you do this. The switch numbers are listed in the manual. The only switches i believe score 3k are the 2 outlane switches. Correction: there's also the switch below the saucer on the left lane--that switch also scores 3k.

2) i had this issue with 2 targets in my 8-bank after rebuilding and installing new drop targets. After many attempts to fix the issue, it turned out in my case to be the relays that knock down the targets needed to be adjusted. The armature of each relay has a tab at the end that the target rests on. The tabs on the armatures for the targets that were intermittently dropping needed to be raised or lowered to get them in line with the tabs for the armatures on the "good" targets. You'll need to pull the target bank out to get access to the parts you'll need to adjust. Hopefully that's the fix for you too. Fwiw i only made slight adjustments to the tabs as needed and i haven't had a problem since.

3) Yup, normal behavior. Any targets that are still up get scored, then the next ball (in the 1-9 sequence) starts and it kicks it back out to you. Pretty cool when you plunge the ball out and get a rebound off the pop bumper into that left lane, triggering a dropping and scoring of all the targets! (The 8 never drops by design, but it does get scored if it's up in this case)

4) The 3 switches in the ball trough under the apron and the 3 switches for that left lane next to the 8-bank all need to be adjusted properly for the game to work. It's likely one or more of the switches will need to be adjusted, which is admittedly a bit difficult to get right on this game. There's also known code problems that can lead to similar scenarios, but it's not a problem i have seen occur with any real consistency. Updated code is available through some folks on the forum, but i haven't had a chance to try it yet, myself.

5) Thank you so much for your part in making the Mirco repro playfields a reality--i am planning on purchasing one myself in the near future hopefully. If you need any further pics or info or anything, feel free to pm me or ask here on the thread and I'll do what i can to help!

Good luck with your game!! It's gonna be amazing with a brand new playfield!

#853 3 years ago
Quoted from ToucanF16:

I just purchased a NB PF from Mirco. Thanks for donating your PF as a template duffysarcade .

I appreciate it. It's gonna feel good to see y'all replacing your beat-up playfields!

#854 3 years ago
Quoted from DuffysArcade:

1. When the ball is dropped into the shooter lane, I somehow score 3,000 points for nothing. I can't find any switches closed anywhere.

I'm putting on my Joe Shadetree hat and go out on a limb here. I have/had a similar problem on my Nine Ball. I believe it is a diode problem. I replaced all my diodes ( I thought) but I still had the problem of isolating which one so I folded the pin up and will deal with it when I get my new Mirco NB play field.

( I had a diode go bad on my Big Game. Fortunately, I was able to isolate the sound for which switch was having problems and was able to fix the problem ).

I also have a friend with a NB and he has the same problem. I have tried cutting one wire to each switch one-a- a- time and that does not work very well. So, here is what I am going to do to try and isolate the problem.

This is the switch matrix for Nine Ball. You have 5 wires that you need to get familiar with. They are white/red, Brown/white, white/blue, white/yellow and yellow/red. They are hi lighted in the green. Study this little bit. Let's look at the brown/white wire: The b/w wire powers the switches to both sling shots, all three pops, the switches for Cancer and Gemini, and the center spinner.

These 5 switch wires control all of your switches.

NB Switches (resized).jpegNB Switches (resized).jpeg

The one item that is not shown on this switch matrix is how the switches on the 8-place drop target are wired, but those switches have diodes, as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the connector where those 5 switch wires live. You can see the white/red on the left. The others are here, too.

IMG_5518 (resized).JPGIMG_5518 (resized).JPG

That connector lives on the upper right corner of the MPU. The blueprint location is A4-J2-MPU. J2 will be marked on your MPU. It is also marked as to how many connector pins are in the connector, it tells you which pin is #1 and there is an arrow that points to which pin gets the block out key.

IMG_5516 (resized).JPGIMG_5516 (resized).JPG
=========================================

What I am going to do when I get another chance at my friend's NB is this.

1) Remove the play field apron. All 3 balls have to loaded in the outhole chute for the game to fire up. It takes a magnet stick to remove them before you lift the play field, should you need to.

2) Put the back glass in a safe place.

3) Remove that connector on the MPU.

4) By using a very small screw driver, I am going to remove the red/white wire from the connector. And I will reconnect the connector to the MPU and fire up a game.

With the game fired up, hit the credit button and start a game. If the offending sound remains then you know the white/red circuit is not the offending circuit.

5) Turn the game off.

6) Replace the white/red wire in the connector.

7) Remove the next wire. The brown/white wire.

8 ) Repeat step #4 only now with the brown/white wire removed from the connector.

9) Keep repeating this procedure with each of those 5 wires. Once you fire up and credit a game and the offending sound is gone, you will now know which circuit you need to look at.

10) Let's say when the white/yellow wire is pulled from the connector the offending sound goes away.

On the white/yellow circuit there are the Aquarius Stand up target, the Capricorn stand up target, the right (R) drop target assembly and the (cntr) drop target assembly.

11) Do the drop targets first. Cut or desolder the w/y wire from the right drop assembly. ( Make sure you use a jumper wire to continue the voltage to the to other switches on the circuit. ). By cutting the w/y wire from the (cntr) drop assembly you have eliminated the 3 switches on the cntr drop assembly. If this makes the offending sound go away, you have isolated your problem to one of the 3 switches on the drop assembly. So, hook the w/y wire back up and remove one of the wires from one of the switches on the drop assembly. Say remove the white/orange wire from the right target on the cntr drop. If the sound still persists reconnect w/o wire and remove the brn wire on the left target.

You will need to do this for each wire on the w/y circuit until you cut the wire that makes the offending sound go away.

12) If none of the above works out, then you will need to disconnect that huge connector in the 8-place drop assembly and see if the offending sound is living in that drop assembly. Disconnect it and credit another game.

REMEMBER: ALL 3 balls have to loaded to credit a game.

I hope all of this helps you out.

#855 3 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

1) Remove the balls from the game, reset all the drop targets, and put the game in switch test. Then try banging around on the playfield with the bottom of your fist. See if any switches come up on the displays as you do this. The switch numbers are listed in the manual. The only switches i believe score 3k are the 2 outlane switches. Correction: there's also the switch below the saucer on the left lane--that switch also scores 3k.
2) i had this issue with 2 targets in my 8-bank after rebuilding and installing new drop targets. After many attempts to fix the issue, it turned out in my case to be the relays that knock down the targets needed to be adjusted. The armature of each relay has a tab at the end that the target rests on. The tabs on the armatures for the targets that were intermittently dropping needed to be raised or lowered to get them in line with the tabs for the armatures on the "good" targets. You'll need to pull the target bank out to get access to the parts you'll need to adjust. Hopefully that's the fix for you too. Fwiw i only made slight adjustments to the tabs as needed and i haven't had a problem since.
3) Yup, normal behavior. Any targets that are still up get scored, then the next ball (in the 1-9 sequence) starts and it kicks it back out to you. Pretty cool when you plunge the ball out and get a rebound off the pop bumper into that left lane, triggering a dropping and scoring of all the targets! (The 8 never drops by design, but it does get scored if it's up in this case)
4) The 3 switches in the ball trough under the apron and the 3 switches for that left lane next to the 8-bank all need to be adjusted properly for the game to work. It's likely one or more of the switches will need to be adjusted, which is admittedly a bit difficult to get right on this game. There's also known code problems that can lead to similar scenarios, but it's not a problem i have seen occur with any real consistency. Updated code is available through some folks on the forum, but i haven't had a chance to try it yet, myself.
5) Thank you so much for your part in making the Mirco repro playfields a reality--i am planning on purchasing one myself in the near future hopefully. If you need any further pics or info or anything, feel free to pm me or ask here on the thread and I'll do what i can to help!
Good luck with your game!! It's gonna be amazing with a brand new playfield!

@frunch,
Thank you for the really detailed help here! With the suggestions/clarification you gave, I was able to sort out the 8-bank drop assembly. Just like you said, I had to adjust the metal tabs down a bit to allow the drop target tabs to sit on top of the tabs when it resets. It seems like the plastic connecting link from the large coil has quite a bit of slop, so that's prob preventing the targets from getting pushed up high enough. I've been able to adjust it to function for now, but I'll probably look to replace that link.

The ball lock issue was indeed mis-adjustment of one of the switches.

The phantom switch scoring still persists, but I see some additional suggestions from others about a possible bad diode. I'll work through that troubleshooting on that.

Thanks again!

20210204_180051 (resized).jpg20210204_180051 (resized).jpg20210204_180105 (resized).jpg20210204_180105 (resized).jpg
#856 3 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I'm putting on my Joe Shadetree hat and go out on a limb here. I have/had a similar problem on my Nine Ball. I believe it is a diode problem. I replaced all my diodes ( I thought) but I still had the problem of isolating which one so I folded the pin up and will deal with it when I get my new Mirco NB play field.
( I had a diode go bad on my Big Game. Fortunately, I was able to isolate the sound for which switch was having problems and was able to fix the problem ).
I also have a friend with a NB and he has the same problem. I have tried cutting one wire to each switch one-a- a- time and that does not work very well. So, here is what I am going to do to try and isolate the problem.
This is the switch matrix for Nine Ball. You have 5 wires that you need to get familiar with. They are white/red, Brown/white, white/blue, white/yellow and yellow/red. They are hi lighted in the green. Study this little bit. Let's look at the brown/white wire: The b/w wire powers the switches to both sling shots, all three pops, the switches for Cancer and Gemini, and the center spinner.
These 5 switch wires control all of your switches.
[quoted image]
The one item that is not shown on this switch matrix is how the switches on the 8-place drop target are wired, but those switches have diodes, as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the connector where those 5 switch wires live. You can see the white/red on the left. The others are here, too.
[quoted image]
That connector lives on the upper right corner of the MPU. The blueprint location is A4-J2-MPU. J2 will be marked on your MPU. It is also marked as to how many connector pins are in the connector, it tells you which pin is #1 and there is an arrow that points to which pin gets the block out key.
[quoted image]
=========================================
What I am going to do when I get another chance at my friend's NB is this.
1) Remove the play field apron. All 3 balls have to loaded in the outhole chute for the game to fire up. It takes a magnet stick to remove them before you lift the play field, should you need to.
2) Put the back glass in a safe place.
3) Remove that connector on the MPU.
4) By using a very small screw driver, I am going to remove the red/white wire from the connector. And I will reconnect the connector to the MPU and fire up a game.
With the game fired up, hit the credit button and start a game. If the offending sound remains then you know the white/red circuit is not the offending circuit.
5) Turn the game off.
6) Replace the white/red wire in the connector.
7) Remove the next wire. The brown/white wire.
8 ) Repeat step #4 only now with the brown/white wire removed from the connector.
9) Keep repeating this procedure with each of those 5 wires. Once you fire up and credit a game and the offending sound is gone, you will now know which circuit you need to look at.
10) Let's say when the white/yellow wire is pulled from the connector the offending sound goes away.
On the white/yellow circuit there are the Aquarius Stand up target, the Capricorn stand up target, the right (R) drop target assembly and the (cntr) drop target assembly.
11) Do the drop targets first. Cut or desolder the w/y wire from the right drop assembly. ( Make sure you use a jumper wire to continue the voltage to the to other switches on the circuit. ). By cutting the w/y wire from the (cntr) drop assembly you have eliminated the 3 switches on the cntr drop assembly. If this makes the offending sound go away, you have isolated your problem to one of the 3 switches on the drop assembly. So, hook the w/y wire back up and remove one of the wires from one of the switches on the drop assembly. Say remove the white/orange wire from the right target on the cntr drop. If the sound still persists reconnect w/o wire and remove the brn wire on the left target.
You will need to do this for each wire on the w/y circuit until you cut the wire that makes the offending sound go away.
12) If none of the above works out, then you will need to disconnect that huge connector in the 8-place drop assembly and see if the offending sound is living in that drop assembly. Disconnect it and credit another game.
REMEMBER: ALL 3 balls have to loaded to credit a game.
I hope all of this helps you out.

@cottonm4,
Thanks for all of the help here! I like your suggested method of isolating which row/column of the switch matrix is affected here. It is scoring 3,000 points which is only possible with a few switches so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out. I'll let you know.

----------

FYI, I got the new plastic set today from Mirco and while it is good quality, I do notice that the shade of blue is like a baby blue instead of the vivid blue which was used on the playfield. Actually, compared to the colors on my original 41-year-old plastic set...this repro set has very muted colors. For instance, looking at the color burst area around the white stand-up target and horseshoe at the top, the color saturation on my original plastic set is much better than the repro. Once I get all of my original gear back from Mirco, I will probably install my old plastics again. Perhaps he gave me a test article which doesn't represent the final product...not sure. A bit disappointing.

20210205_000114 (resized).jpg20210205_000114 (resized).jpg20210205_000120 (resized).jpg20210205_000120 (resized).jpg20210205_000131 (resized).jpg20210205_000131 (resized).jpg20210205_000138 (resized).jpg20210205_000138 (resized).jpg20210205_000148 (resized).jpg20210205_000148 (resized).jpg

#857 3 years ago

@duffysarcade
Glad to be off assistance! I'm really glad you were able to sort the 8-bank problems, that plagued me for over a year!

Your game looks amazing, good luck getting it past the finish line!

Edit: one other suggestion re: the switch issue. There's 3 switches under the playfield on NB that use a 0.05uf ceramic cap (which can be substituted with a 0.047uf). The "dead" bumper at the top right, the switch for the gate for the U-turn, and the Advance Spinner to Max/7k points switch. If they're the original caps, I'd suggest changing them. For testing purposes, you can clip one leg of the cap from the switches and see if the problem goes away. Note there's also a cap on the tilt bob, but i don't think that one would be responsible for this issue.

#858 3 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

duffysarcade
Glad to be off assistance! I'm really glad you were able to sort the 8-bank problems, that plagued me for over a year!
Your game looks amazing, good luck getting it past the finish line!
Edit: one other suggestion re: the switch issue. There's 3 switches under the playfield on NB that use a 0.05uf ceramic cap (which can be substituted with a 0.047uf). The "dead" bumper at the top right, the switch for the gate for the U-turn, and the Advance Spinner to Max/7k points switch. If they're the original caps, I'd suggest changing them. For testing purposes, you can clip one leg of the cap from the switches and see if the problem goes away. Note there's also a cap on the tilt bob, but i don't think that one would be responsible for this issue.

Good info.

I forgot a cap can short out and cause probs, too. I had a cap short on the tilt bob on my Big Game and it just kept tilting and shutting down.

#859 3 years ago

I already have a new set of plastics for my NB from CPR that were purchased long before Micro released their NB playfield. I wonder how close the color match will be to the Mirco playfield? Has anyone been able to compare the CPR plastics to the Mirco playfield yet?

#860 3 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I'm putting on my Joe Shadetree hat and go out on a limb here. I have/had a similar problem on my Nine Ball. I believe it is a diode problem. I replaced all my diodes ( I thought) but I still had the problem of isolating which one so I folded the pin up and will deal with it when I get my new Mirco NB play field.
( I had a diode go bad on my Big Game. Fortunately, I was able to isolate the sound for which switch was having problems and was able to fix the problem ).
I also have a friend with a NB and he has the same problem. I have tried cutting one wire to each switch one-a- a- time and that does not work very well. So, here is what I am going to do to try and isolate the problem.
This is the switch matrix for Nine Ball. You have 5 wires that you need to get familiar with. They are white/red, Brown/white, white/blue, white/yellow and yellow/red. They are hi lighted in the green. Study this little bit. Let's look at the brown/white wire: The b/w wire powers the switches to both sling shots, all three pops, the switches for Cancer and Gemini, and the center spinner.
These 5 switch wires control all of your switches.
[quoted image]
The one item that is not shown on this switch matrix is how the switches on the 8-place drop target are wired, but those switches have diodes, as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the connector where those 5 switch wires live. You can see the white/red on the left. The others are here, too.
[quoted image]
That connector lives on the upper right corner of the MPU. The blueprint location is A4-J2-MPU. J2 will be marked on your MPU. It is also marked as to how many connector pins are in the connector, it tells you which pin is #1 and there is an arrow that points to which pin gets the block out key.
[quoted image]
=========================================
What I am going to do when I get another chance at my friend's NB is this.
1) Remove the play field apron. All 3 balls have to loaded in the outhole chute for the game to fire up. It takes a magnet stick to remove them before you lift the play field, should you need to.
2) Put the back glass in a safe place.
3) Remove that connector on the MPU.
4) By using a very small screw driver, I am going to remove the red/white wire from the connector. And I will reconnect the connector to the MPU and fire up a game.
With the game fired up, hit the credit button and start a game. If the offending sound remains then you know the white/red circuit is not the offending circuit.
5) Turn the game off.
6) Replace the white/red wire in the connector.
7) Remove the next wire. The brown/white wire.
8 ) Repeat step #4 only now with the brown/white wire removed from the connector.
9) Keep repeating this procedure with each of those 5 wires. Once you fire up and credit a game and the offending sound is gone, you will now know which circuit you need to look at.
10) Let's say when the white/yellow wire is pulled from the connector the offending sound goes away.
On the white/yellow circuit there are the Aquarius Stand up target, the Capricorn stand up target, the right (R) drop target assembly and the (cntr) drop target assembly.
11) Do the drop targets first. Cut or desolder the w/y wire from the right drop assembly. ( Make sure you use a jumper wire to continue the voltage to the to other switches on the circuit. ). By cutting the w/y wire from the (cntr) drop assembly you have eliminated the 3 switches on the cntr drop assembly. If this makes the offending sound go away, you have isolated your problem to one of the 3 switches on the drop assembly. So, hook the w/y wire back up and remove one of the wires from one of the switches on the drop assembly. Say remove the white/orange wire from the right target on the cntr drop. If the sound still persists reconnect w/o wire and remove the brn wire on the left target.
You will need to do this for each wire on the w/y circuit until you cut the wire that makes the offending sound go away.
12) If none of the above works out, then you will need to disconnect that huge connector in the 8-place drop assembly and see if the offending sound is living in that drop assembly. Disconnect it and credit another game.
REMEMBER: ALL 3 balls have to loaded to credit a game.
I hope all of this helps you out.

Good approach @cottonm4. Taking it one step further... Instead of cutting row return lines once finding out the offending column, you similarly can pull J2 I0-I7 pins one at a time to get the right row. So, column and row will give you the answer.

#861 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Good approach cottonm4. Taking it one step further... Instead of cutting row return lines once finding out the offending column, you similarly can pull J2 I0-I7 pins one at a time to get the right row. So, column and row will give you the answer.

That's a good idea. Actually, that is a great idea.

It might be a little cumbersome when you consider you may have 8 rows to deal with, but it saves solder work of cutting and resoldering the connections a possible 8 times. but what might work is to pull ALL of the row wires at the same time, credit a game, and start plugging each row wire until you plug in the "right" wire.

Can that be done? Can those switches be disabled and then reconnected hot? Or would you have to turn the pin off before you could make a connection?

Man, if you could plug the row wires back in while hot, all you need to do is find the errant column, unplug ALL row wires, crank up a game and start plugging row wires back in one at a time. And then Bingo.

** Just be sure to mark all of the wires before you start pulling multiples. **

Actually, you would not need to remove the row wires from the connector. Just make a jumper wire with a piece of connector scrap connector pin
( you know, the pins from the connectors you saved when you were installing new pins to your boards ) and then jump from the unplugged connector to the correct pin on the board. Then keep moving your jump wire from pin to pin. Find the errant column and you could do the rows in a couple of minutes.

So, can we hot plug the switches?

#862 3 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

So, can we hot plug the switches?

I'm gonna say Yes. But you first, lol

There's no connection on the return until a switch closes. So if it is hot connected it's just like a switch closure. But wait for someone that knows for sure.

#863 3 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Can that be done? Can those switches be disabled and then reconnected hot?

Yes you can... I've pulled off/put on the j2/j3 connectors all at once so no reason you can't do it one at a time. You might get a bounce or 2 as you plug it in and complete a circuit, I don't think it's harmful otherwise.

I also don't really see why people always say "don't unplug/plug displays (especially Gottliebs) while the game is on." - done it lots of times on Bally/Stern and williams games, no harm done. Maybe lucky? It's not pleasant if you happen to touch the HV line though.

Not sure why they always say that on GTB's though.

#864 3 years ago

cottonm4 emsrph @crunch
I found that there are 5 total switches which can score 3,000 points and marked them on the attached diagram. Through some suggested methods, I have eliminated all options except the left lane lower switch. The phantom scoring doesn't happen every game or every ball, but randomly and always when the ball is first shot into to the shooter lane. So I have checked all diodes and caps for the 4 switches in that row (A2J4-15) and can't find anything yet. Still hunting. I do notice that 2 of those switches have small caps, and 2 of them have diodes soldered in.

Screenshot_20210205-190759_Drive (resized).jpgScreenshot_20210205-190759_Drive (resized).jpg
#865 3 years ago
Quoted from DuffysArcade:

I do notice that 2 of those switches have small caps, and 2 of them have diodes soldered in.

No capacitors needed on the drop targets. Shouldn't all the switches have diodes?

#866 3 years ago

@duffysarcade
Ahhh good catch, i totally forgot about the upper left gate switch (Loop Rollunder Gate on chart) scoring 3k! I had a devil of a time getting that one adjusted properly so it would detect fast activations but also not gap it too close that it makes contact due to vibration. In fact, that reminds me of another thing to observe: when you get the phantom 3k is it advancing the 10-20-30-40-173 bonus ladder or scoring the lit value of it when that happens?

#867 3 years ago
Quoted from DuffysArcade:

cottonm4 emsrph crunch
I found that there are 5 total switches which can score 3,000 points and marked them on the attached diagram. Through some suggested methods, I have eliminated all options except the left lane lower switch. The phantom scoring doesn't happen every game or every ball, but randomly and always when the ball is first shot into to the shooter lane. So I have checked all diodes and caps for the 4 switches in that row (A2J4-15) and can't find anything yet. Still hunting. I do notice that 2 of those switches have small caps, and 2 of them have diodes soldered in.
[quoted image]

I need to apologize. I put up a switch matrix for Star Gazer as that is what I am currently working on. It is a great Homer Simpson moment. I could cop a plea that the principle is the same, but I a very sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

#868 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

No capacitors needed on the drop targets. Shouldn't all the switches have diodes?

I think the caps would be beneficial where a quick switch actuation might not be registered by the the MPU...so prob the upper left horseshoe rollunder gate, the lower left rollover switch, and both outlane switches. And then you are right...a diode on the drop target.

And like you said...the diagram shows a diode is required at every switch in the matrix, and no mention of caps.

So what does everyone else have on their left lane lower switch? Diode? Cap? Both?

#869 3 years ago

don't forget to get the updated rom as any rebuild. Its made my nine ball much more reliable with no issues with lost state.

#870 3 years ago
Quoted from DuffysArcade:

I think the caps would be beneficial where a quick switch actuation might not be registered by the the MPU...so prob the upper left horseshoe rollunder gate, the lower left rollover switch, and both outlane switches. And then you are right...a diode on the drop target.
And like you said...the diagram shows a diode is required at every switch in the matrix, and no mention of caps.
So what does everyone else have on their left lane lower switch? Diode? Cap? Both?

I can't answer your question but find it interesting that my Star Gazer matrix up above shows that both slings have caps but on the nine Ball matrix no caps are being called for.

Stange. I need to pull out all my Stern manuals and look at this and compare them all.

#871 3 years ago

Looking at the schematic, only 3 playfield switches use a ceramic cap: the "dead bumper" at the top right, the 7k/Max spinner target at the top of the playfield, and the gate switch for the u-turn. Note each of those 3 switches has the capacitor marked on the schematic:

1169236675.png1169236675.png
1 month later
#872 3 years ago

I’m taking baby steps while I wait on a new playfield. I swapped out the metal Stern jet bumper base with a yellow plastic used on some Data East machines and I picked up a Flight 2000 jet bumper cap.

It makes for a much cleaner appearance and during the process I built in a molex connection for easy removal and adjustment of the entire assembly.

It might be wishful thinking but the jet bumper behaves much better and seems more active.


24853D82-59DC-4EC1-AB4A-B3BB0E0E61EB (resized).jpeg24853D82-59DC-4EC1-AB4A-B3BB0E0E61EB (resized).jpeg8E6E911F-F26B-41F5-853B-2DDC18BF3F72 (resized).jpeg8E6E911F-F26B-41F5-853B-2DDC18BF3F72 (resized).jpegA61E5537-D413-40A7-9145-4583FC80FDFD (resized).jpegA61E5537-D413-40A7-9145-4583FC80FDFD (resized).jpeg

1 week later
#873 2 years ago

Calling all you classic Stern experts....my Nine Ball isn't saving high scores.

Only ever shows "0 0 0 0".

I have removed the 5105 and installed an NVRAM. Jumpers seem to be set properly. Any ideas? Thanks!

20210326_213315 (resized).jpg20210326_213315 (resized).jpg20210326_220816 (resized).jpg20210326_220816 (resized).jpg20210326_220823 (resized).jpg20210326_220823 (resized).jpg
#874 2 years ago
Quoted from DuffysArcade:

Calling all you classic Stern experts....my Nine Ball isn't saving high scores.
Only ever shows "0 0 0 0".
I have removed the 5105 and installed an NVRAM. Jumpers seem to be set properly. Any ideas? Thanks!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Your displays only have four digits?

#875 2 years ago
Quoted from bluespin:

Your displays only have four digits?

Looks like it's only showing zeros on alternate digits, with the others blank.

#876 2 years ago
Quoted from DuffysArcade:

Calling all you classic Stern experts....my Nine Ball isn't saving high scores.
Only ever shows "0 0 0 0".
I have removed the 5105 and installed an NVRAM. Jumpers seem to be set properly. Any ideas? Thanks!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

You might try that white reset button just inside the coin door and zero everything out as you cycle thru the options. That got rid of a couple of issue I had with mine.

#877 2 years ago
Quoted from EEE:

I’m taking baby steps while I wait on a new playfield. I swapped out the metal Stern jet bumper base with a yellow plastic used on some Data East machines and I picked up a Flight 2000 jet bumper cap.
It makes for a much cleaner appearance and during the process I built in a molex connection for easy removal and adjustment of the entire assembly.
It might be wishful thinking but the jet bumper behaves much better and seems more active.

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I have not yet seen a yellow pop bumper housing. Blue, white, black, and gray. This is the first yellow one I have seen. It stands out.

I learned by accident that pop bumpers need to be adjusted differently than the rest of the switches. I like tight, close switch gaps on my flippers and slings. But it is the wrong thing to do on a pop bumper switch. I tried closing the gap on a pop switch and saw the fail on first hit of the skirt.

Tight gaps on pop switches cause the pop to shoot too soon and the ball gets cheated out of its normal travel distance. A pop gap needs to be set to close at the last possible moment.; This lets the ball get buried in the skirt/ring with a powerful rebound. Since you can remove it, you have the enjoyment of adjusting your pop switches as a bench job and makes it easy to get your pop spoon centered on the skirt pointer.

You probably did all of that without really thinking about it. And it all fell into position.

#878 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have not yet seen a yellow pop bumper housing. Blue, white, black, and gray. This is the first yellow one I have seen. It stands out.
I learned by accident that pop bumpers need to be adjusted differently than the rest of the switches. I like tight, close switch gaps on my flippers and slings. But it is the wrong thing to do on a pop bumper switch. I tried closing the gap on a pop switch and saw the fail on first hit of the skirt.
Tight gaps on pop switches cause the pop to shoot too soon and the ball gets cheated out of its normal travel distance. A pop gap needs to be set to close at the last possible moment.; This lets the ball get buried in the skirt/ring with a powerful rebound. Since you can remove it, you have the enjoyment of adjusting your pop switches as a bench job and makes it easy to get your pop spoon centered on the skirt pointer.
You probably did all of that without really thinking about it. And it all fell into position.

Thanks cottonm4, I honestly credit you for suggesting a molex configuration in a previous post (#3644) over on the Stern thread.

#879 2 years ago

Yes you have to do what CottonM4 said. I had the same problem. You have to clear everything in memory one by one in the coin door.

#880 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Tight gaps on pop switches cause the pop to shoot too soon and the ball gets cheated out of its normal travel distance. A pop gap needs to be set to close at the last possible moment.; This lets the ball get buried in the skirt/ring with a powerful rebound.

On a game like NB with exposed pops, I agree with you. On modern games with bumper nests that the ball usually dribbles into, such adjustments will usually lead to dead bumpers and the ball just rolling out of the next un-popped. With nests, it's best to make the switches as close as possible so the pops trigger easily. The pops don't need as much oomph since it's likely to just hit a neighboring pop or a post.

#881 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

On a game like NB with exposed pops, I agree with you. On modern games with bumper nests that the ball usually dribbles into, such adjustments will usually lead to dead bumpers and the ball just rolling out of the next un-popped. With nests, it's best to make the switches as close as possible so the pops trigger easily. The pops don't need as much oomph since it's likely to just hit a neighboring pop or a post.

That makes sense.

#882 2 years ago

I’m slowly moving forward and this week I will build up some new playfield rails for our eventual playfield swap. These are the various lengths I measured for ours.

Shooter lane right - 31”
Shooter lane left - 28 1/4”
Back right - 6”
Back left - 8 3/4”
Left side - 37 3/8”

1 month later
#883 2 years ago

I got the altek lamp driver board so I could use regular LEDs. They look fantastic, but the ones closest to the 8 drop targets flicker. I’ve even tried flux bulbs there, and even those flicker. Advice?

#884 2 years ago
Quoted from Boise_D:

I got the altek lamp driver board so I could use regular LEDs. They look fantastic, but the ones closest to the 8 drop targets flicker. I’ve even tried flux bulbs there, and even those flicker. Advice?

Solder a 470 ohm resistor from the base of the lamp socket to the tab. Sometimes in certain games, it’s the only way to get rid of a flickering led. I had to do this with my centaur, after trying three different lamp boards.

#885 2 years ago
Quoted from djblouw:

Solder a 470 ohm resistor from the base of the lamp socket to the tab. Sometimes in certain games, it’s the only way to get rid of a flickering led. I had to do this with my centaur, after trying three different lamp boards.

Too true.

#886 2 years ago
Quoted from djblouw:

Solder a 470 ohm resistor from the base of the lamp socket to the tab. Sometimes in certain games, it’s the only way to get rid of a flickering led. I had to do this with my centaur, after trying three different lamp boards.

Thank you, I'll try this. I first moved the grounding wire from the Altek board and attached it to a different spot on the backbox. That seemed to help.

#887 2 years ago

I'm working on the large drop target bank. I think the missing coil on the left in this picture is correct. Can anyone confirm? It looks like I'm missing an arm though, on a coil to the right, which will drop the individual target. If there is no coil to fire on the left, can I swap those brackets? Or, does anyone know where I can find a few? Some of the others have been creatively welded.

nb drops (resized).pngnb drops (resized).png
#888 2 years ago
Quoted from Boise_D:

I'm working on the large drop target bank. I think the missing coil on the left in this picture is correct. Can anyone confirm? It looks like I'm missing an arm though, on a coil to the right, which will drop the individual target. If there is no coil to fire on the left, can I swap those brackets? Or, does anyone know where I can find a few? Some of the others have been creatively welded.
[quoted image]

There's no coil there by design. It's for the 8 ball which the game never needs to drop, so there's no coil for that spot.

Unfortunately you can't swap the bracket from the 8 ball position over to the one on the right, it's what holds the drop target up. The 8 ball will immediately drop with that piece missing. It also looks like the arm that's missing on the right might be bent down or outward, can't tell from the angle of the pic. If it's still there, you may be able to carefully bend it back.

I can't seem to come up with the part number for that piece though, perhaps somebody will be able to chime in with that info.

#889 2 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

There's no coil there by design. It's for the 8 ball which the game never needs to drop, so there's no coil for that spot.
Unfortunately you can't swap the bracket from the 8 ball position over to the one on the right, it's what holds the drop target up. The 8 ball will immediately drop with that piece missing. It also looks like the arm that's missing on the right might be bent down or outward, can't tell from the angle of the pic. If it's still there, you may be able to carefully bend it back.
I can't seem to come up with the part number for that piece though, perhaps somebody will be able to chime in with that info.

cottonm4 maybe able to help? I couldn't find it in the Stern parts catalog either...

#890 2 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

cottonm4 maybe able to help? I couldn't find it in the Stern parts catalog either...

Sorry. I cannot help you on that. I could probably make one with some angle from a metal shop and a cut-off wheel, but you are talking a lot of hours.

#891 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Sorry. I cannot help you on that. I could probably make one with some angle from a metal shop and a cut-off wheel, but you are talking a lot of hours.

yeah been looking around, no luck, are those only used in memory stern drop target then?

#892 2 years ago

Part number printed on them is Stern A-679. Others have IA-679.

#893 2 years ago

I prob have some, I'll check later today.

#894 2 years ago

It's your lucky day.

16205008651783019646694218512657 (resized).jpg16205008651783019646694218512657 (resized).jpg
#895 2 years ago

Awesome! Thank you!

1 week later
#896 2 years ago

I wanted to publicly thank Jjsmooth for taking the time to dig up this part that I needed to continue with Nine Ball. Much appreciated

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#897 2 years ago

We just joined up! It needs a few tweaks but was mostly turnkey.

1B679A26-DDCD-4E7C-B1B2-4527D43574F2 (resized).jpeg1B679A26-DDCD-4E7C-B1B2-4527D43574F2 (resized).jpeg6BDED6C8-701D-4920-BB7C-60379ADA1EB1 (resized).jpeg6BDED6C8-701D-4920-BB7C-60379ADA1EB1 (resized).jpeg
#898 2 years ago

Do you guys keep the background sound on? It is switch 8 on the MPU? I never had mine on before. I turned it on played a couple games and turned it back off. Maybe because I'm not used to it? Does anyone like the extra sounds?

#899 2 years ago

Can anyone take a look at their back box wires leading to the Bulb that lights up the word Tournament on the back glass? I'm wondering if mine is wired correctly. Mine has green on the bottom, and both red an orange on top. I've still got some flickering I'm trying to track down

PXL_20210523_202034340.MP (resized).jpgPXL_20210523_202034340.MP (resized).jpg
#900 2 years ago

Mines different with only one orange on top.

F580E1EF-0BFD-4274-A49C-E20EFBA2C0DC (resized).jpegF580E1EF-0BFD-4274-A49C-E20EFBA2C0DC (resized).jpeg
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