Hello All - just picked up another Night Rider (loved my first one, sold it to a friend, but missed it). Found a lot of weird things going on when I got it home. The previous owner didn't know much about EMs, so when it "stopped working right" they started replacing a bunch of coils, and making various odd adjustments.

First thing I noticed was that all of the jones plugs on the bottom board in the cabinet were in the wrong sockets. Fixed that. Then I noticed that a bunch of the relay switches in a couple of the relays were out of place, so I fixed that as well.

Here's where I am now: As soon as the power is turned on, the game goes into a "reset loop" of sorts. I've dealt with score motors spinning away before, but this game is acting a little weirder

The Score motor is spinning non-stop, but what I noticed was the #1 Score Reset and #2 Score Reset relays in the head are constantly pulling on and off. The Game Over relay is doing the same, on/off (not latching).

Attached is a snippet from the schematic that shows the #1 and #2 Score Reset relays. I was thinking perhaps the score reels themselves may be the issue, and that the switches that should be open might not be. I was going through each score reel, but I'm not 100% certain if all (3) of the switches in the score reel stack should be "open" when the reel is at "0" . It looks like on some reels all 3 switches are open at zero, on others they are not.

Anyone with a Night Rider do me a favor and check their score reels in reset position, and tell me if all switches on all reels are "open" when the reel is at "0"?

If that's not it... I'm thinking Game Over relay, Reset Relay, or Coin Relay maybe. Thoughts/Suggestions welcome. Thanks!

NR_Score_Reset_Relays (resized).jpg

Okay, will do. Regarding the score reels, are you saying that all switches should be open when the reel is reset? That seems to be what it looks like, but with several of them having the middle switch closed, I wanted to verify. It's quite possible they all just need some adjustment. Since I'll be cleaning them anyway, it will be a good time to do whatever needs to be done to get them setup properly.

My old Night Rider worked when I bought it, so very little needed fixing. Wish I took more pics of it so I would have them for this one!

Okay, just spent a couple of hours cleaning switches and making some adjustments. I discovered that the "reset loop" seems to be caused by the Bonus Unit not resetting. I manually decreased it back to reset position and the #1 and #2 Score Reset relays stopped going on/off. The Score Motor stopped as well. The ball didn't kick out, but the game appears to have "started". The right flipper worked, as did the pop bumpers. Left flipper dead. About half of the targets are working. I checked/cleaned them, but still nothing, so it's more than just dirty switch contacts on the targets/rollovers themselves. Outhole not registering on ball drain, drop targets are not scoring. It's a mix of working/not working right now from a playfield perspective.

Before I worry about all that, I need to figure out why the Bonus Unit isn't resetting.

NR_Bonus_Unit_Reset (resized).jpg

NR_Bonus_Score_Reset_Re (resized).jpg

Hi Rolf - the bonus score relay does not look like it's doing anything at all. I will check this again as soon as I can.

Seems like nothing related to the outhole is working, so I'm guessing some of my issues are tied to that as well.

The power is out at my home right now, so I think I'll just spend some time going over all the Jones plugs, connections, etc.

Okay, my power is finally back on after a wind storm knocked it out for a couple of days. I've only had a chance to quickly power on the game and see what would happen, as it's late and I don't have much time to do anything else. Thankfully, while the power was out I had time to go through and clean every switch, jones plug, etc. that I could get my hands on.

The result is that I seem to be closer to working, though there are all sorts of strange behaviors to figure out. Here's a breakdown of what I noticed:

First Attempt
- Power on, game lit up, no reset loop, but the game was sitting at Ball 1 (game itself was dead).
- I hit start, nothing. So I manually added a credit at the coin door switch.
- The game reset the score reels, and kicked out the ball into the shooter lane!
- Both flippers now worked
- I started manually triggering some switches. More worked than before, but the drop targets still didn't register. Spinners were dead. Tophole/Kicker was dead.
- I drained a ball, no reaction
- One of the targets I hit seemed to lock the Match Unit somehow, because the coin on it stuck and was humming. At that point, I shut the game off.

Second Attempt
- Power on, game lit up, no reset loop. Still showing Ball 1
- Pressed Start, this time the game reset! Drop targets and scores reset, ball kicked out.
- Spinners worked, top hole and associated hole kicker worked
- Drop targets registered and worked, though the associated score relay and/or score reel locked up
- I hit the center stand up target, and the game suddenly got stuck scoring non-stop. I turned it off.

Third Attempt
- Almost the same as the second attempt, except when I drained a ball, the Ball In Play went up to 2
- Then when I dropped the ball into the top hole, for some reason the Ball In Play went to 3, then the game ended, which was strange.

I ran out of time for now, but I will do some more checking tomorrow. Clearly the game has the ability to work, I just need to figure out what it's acting oddly and inconsistent.

Rolf - I will need to check what you asked tomorrow.

Hi Rolf - I do not think this game has the left flipper feature that turns the GI on. I owned this same game in the past, and it did not use the left flipper to turn anything on either.

I tried your test, and whenever I press the on/off switch on the machine, the GI comes on. I manually latched the Game Over Relay as you suggested, and the result was the same. When I turn the game on with the on/off switch, the GI comes on and the game shows "Game Over" on the backglass. It also shows "1 Can Play" lit.

If I press the Start button, the game attempts to reset. The Score reels return to zero, but the Bonus Unit will not step down to reset position. The coil that steps the Bonus Unit down is not triggering at all. Because of this, the game constantly tries to reset in a loop.

If I manually decrease the Bonus Unit to zero position, the game will finish resetting and kick out the ball. After this, I have several issues as well:

1) Any time something that triggers the "10s" relay to pull, the Match Unit and 10 Point Relay will lock on and stay pulling. The 10s position Score Reel is NOT attempting to pull and is not sticking. Something else is causing the Match Unit and 10 Point Relay to pull and stay pulling

2) When the first ball drains, the game attempts to reset the drop targets and count down the Bonus, but gets stuck in a loop. The Drop Targets keep trying to reset over and over again. I believe this is connected to the Bonus Unit problem above, but I'm not sure.

EDIT: Small update - while inspecting the Bonus Unit Zero switch and wiring, I noticed that someone twisted it together with one of the wires from the Bonus Unit Step Up coil. The White-Green wire from the Bonus Unit Zero switch is twisted together with the Blue-Red wire of the BU Step Up Coil. Strange.

EDIT/UPDATE - After posting the below, I checked the Player Up unit disc and found that the wiper associated with the 10 Point Score drum was not making good contact. I cleaned it and adjusted it, and now Problem #1 below is fixed! I will come back and update more in a bit after testing.

Hi Rolf - Yes, you are correct - when I manually push in the plunger for the 10-Points-Score-Drum in, it opens the switch and the 10-Point-Relay and Match Unit quit pulling. Since the 10 Point Score Drum isn't advancing, and the plunger not going in, that is why everything is getting stuck pulling, correct? If so, now I need to figure out why the 10 Pt Score Drum isn't pulling in.

"2) problem": I believe that EVERY ball kicked over to the shooter alley makes the Bonus-Unit step-up one position - means every new ball starts with ONE Bonus given --- when the pin serves the very first ball: Do You have ONE (You should have) Bonus given ? Or do You have ZERO Bonus ?
"Edit problem": For the moment: Let it as is - we will come to. I would like to fix the "1) problem" first so You can then play a bit. Greetings Rolf

You are correct, when the game is working properly, and a ball is kicked into the shooting lane, the game always gives you the first position bonus unit position automatically, and is lit up on the playfield. It looks like the game does this correctly, if I manually reset the bonus unit.

Agreed, one problem at a time. Okay, so the issue with the 10 point relay, match unit and score reel is fixed. Let's move on to the next issue.

I believe our next issue is to focus on the Bonus Unit, and why it will not increase or decrease properly.

Here is a list of what I observed when starting from the beginning, now that the above issue is fixed:

A) Press power on switch, game lights come on, and game is in Game Over state (and Game Over light is lit as it should be)

B) Press Start Button, game attempts to reset. Score reels and drop targets reset. Bonus Unit does not reset, so the game gets stuck in reset loop. Manually decreasing Bonus Unit to zero position fixes this issue, and game starts as it should. Ball kicks into shooting lane and Ball In Play 1 light is lit.

C) Scoring seems to work fine, aside from Bonus. Hitting a target that is supposed to "Advance Bonus" does not do so. The scoring occurs, but the Bonus does not advance. I can see the Bonus Unit Step Up Coil moving slightly, so it appears to be trying to pull, but it cannot. I will check this more closely and clean it all tomorrow, however it seems to move freely when manually triggered. This makes me wonder if either the coil is bad, or that a related switch is not making good contact.

D) When the ball drains, the Bonus Unit does not step down. This causes the game to repeatedly score whatever the Bonus value is, over and over again. The only way to stop this is to manually decrease the Bonus Unit to reset position. If I do this the game will stop scoring and move to the next ball, as it should. If I do this each time the ball drains, the game will eventually go to Game Over, as it should when the final ball drains (and I manually decrease the Bonus Unit).

Sleep well, talk to you tomorrow, thank you for your help!

Hi Rolf - I worked some more this morning, so here is my second update since last night. I have now solved Half of the Bonus Unit problem I believe:

"When the ball drains, the Bonus Unit does not step down" - I have fixed this issue. I traced the path between the Bonus Unit Reset coil and found a bad connection on the Double Bonus Relay. The sequence I followed was: Yellow-Red wire from Bonus Unit Reset coil to Bonus Relay switch. Then Blue-Yellow from Bonus Relay switch to Double Bonus Relay make/break switch. I found that the make/break on the Double Bonus was not making contact when it was supposed to be. I cleaned and adjusted the switches, and the Bonus Unit Reset now works. It counts down the proper bonus value when a ball drains, and awards it to the score.

I have two important issues now, which one would you like to discuss? I believe we continue with ONE problem, and focus on item #1 below. I just want to mention item #2 so I keep track of issues.

1) The Bonus Unit does not advance when the associated targets are hit on the playfield. It stays at the first award position (1000pt) and never advances. I will work on this now, and look for poor contacts/connections because I see the plunger moving slightly. It moves freely when manually pressed, so I believe it's not receiving the correct power (or possibly the coil is bad and not pulling hard enough).

2) When the first ball drains, the game advances to Ball In Play 2, but it gets stuck in a reset loop. The Drop Targets keep trying to reset over and over again, and the outhole kicker keeps firing even though the ball is already in the shooting lane. Odd behavior: If I manually hit a target on the playfield, the game will stop trying to reset the Drop targets, but the Ball In Play will advance to the next ball. If I hit another target, the ball will advance again and go to Game Over (it is set for 3 ball play). Very strange.

I will go work on the Bonus Unit step up issue now. Looking forward to your next post, thank you

Hi Rolf - I performed the test AAA and the coil on the unit did fire. So now we know it works when the proper power reaches the coil. I will begin tracing the connections backwards to try and locate where the bad or broken connection may be. I'm going to guess one of the relay switches are not properly touching. Time to get out my meter and jumpers and get to work for a bit.

Hi Rolf - I will test the score motor as you stated later tonight, late your time. For now, here is what I discovered:

If I have the playfield lifted and propped up, the Bonus Unit Step Up coil works as it should. I can trigger the playfield switches to advance bonus, and it advances properly. When the playfield is down in normal playing position, the Bonus Unit will not step up. I can see it pulling, but it only pulls slightly, not enough to advance the unit. It is as if there is either not enough power to pull in the plunger, or the connection does not last long enough for the coil to pull. Very strange. The reason it seems to work when the playfield is lifted might be due to gravity assisting the coil. The plunger is pulling "down" into the coil when the playfield is lifted. When in normal position, it is pulling horizontally, towards the top of the playfield.

I checked and cleaned the Unit, the coil sleeve, and associated parts. Nothing is sticking and it all moves freely. For some reason there is not enough pull to completely pull in the plunger when the playfield is in playing position.

The springs seem to be fine, but as a test I reduced the spring tension slightly. It seems to have helped somewhat, as the plunger was able to pull in approximately 1 out of 10 tries. I do not think the springs are the issue, it seems like not enough power/connection time.

Good idea, I will do that next to see if it works with the playfield down. Good night, talk to you tomorrow.

Thanks Swillie, you never know, I'll check that.

Hi Rolf - I did the "BBB" style testing as you suggested above, using a jumper from the transformer Yellow and a separate jumper from the Bonus Unit Step Up coil. I ran them through the coin door, lowered the playfield, and performed the test. Making the connect between the jumpers caused the Step Up coil to work perfectly, so we know that when power is properly applied, even with the playfield down, the coil works. My best guess is that one of the contacts or solder points between the transformer path and the coil are bad or intermittent. I will try to trace everything out and test it. If you have any other suggestions, please let me know.

Thanks

EDIT/UPDATE - I adjusted and cleaned the associated score motor switch, and the Bonus Unit is stepping up almost all of the time when it should now, however I seem to have caused another problem. Before I touched the score motor, the Ball In Play properly worked, and Ball Count Unit advanced when a ball drained. Now it is stuck on Ball 1. I'm concerned that I caused the issue, because as I was cleaning the score motor switch, I moved several of the 'bakelite' rotating pieces that are part of the score motor by accident. I may have slightly moved them out of alignment with each other... I'm not sure how to check that? Would that cause this kind of issue due to timing being off slightly?

Bonus Unit is under the Playfield
Outhole Relay, Top Hole Relay, Drop Target Relay are all in the cabinet body

Score Motor Cam Switch D is a little tough to get to, but I can probably figure out a way to clip a jumper on it.

Did you happen to see my edit/update in my last post? You may have been typing when I wrote it, I'm sorry.

You are correct, I am referring to the bakelite cams. I thought they were all locked together, but they can be individually moved, very slightly. While cleaning the switch contacts, I accidentally moved a few of the bakelite cams. I was concerned that the slight movement may have affected the timing of the motor.

Regarding stuck on Ball-1, yes that is exactly what is happening. You can play as you said, but when the ball drains and Bonus is counted, and ball kicks out again, the game stays on Ball-1. I have seen this many times before, but it is new behavior on this game, and only happened after I cleaned the Cam6 Switch D (and moved the cams by accident).

Thank you Rolf - I had to go out for a bit, so I did not get a chance to do the above suggestions. I will work on them tomorrow and let you know the results!

Hi Rolf - I added the jumper you suggested, and the Bonus Unit Step Up coil seems to be working properly with the jumper in place. I will check through the wiring and find the poor connection or fault, now that I know it's between those two points. Thank you!

The Ball Count is now my primary issue. It will not advance past Ball 1. If I manually advance the Ball Count Unit, it will show Ball 2 and Ball 3 as it should, eventually Game Over (game is set for 3 ball play currently). I checked the Score Motor Switch 3C and verified it is making contact and clean.

Hi Rolf - thank you for all the good information!

I ran jumper "2 to 6" as suggested above and tried starting a game. The results were as follows:

1) Ball Count Unit properly advanced when the ball drained.

2) Player Up Unit now advancing when it should not. I had the game set to "1 can play" and every time a ball drained it would advance to the next player. It eventually stayed on Player 4 and did not reset. Now, when a new game is started, the game is stuck on Player 4 unless I manually reset it. However, it does play through normally as Player 4 only, and go to Game Over when the last ball drains.

I believe I should take apart, clean, and re-check the Player Up Unit, as it appears to not be resetting (manually I can see it is sticking slightly, which could be the cause of no reset).

Replying to your post #35

P.S. - Please: Wait with "taking apart the Player-Unit". - Sorry, I did this right away, but it's okay. It turns out that it was dirty, and also that the spring on the cog was loose (it was only wound one time) so there was not enough tension to reset the Unit. I cleaned everything and properly wound the cog spring, and the Unit is resetting properly now.

When I press Start ONE time for a ONE player game, here is what happens:

Game resets as it should, ball kicks to shooting lane, but Player Unit skips Player-1-Ball-1 and instead Advances to Player-2-Ball-1. The game then works perfectly as if it were in a FOUR player game. It rotates through all Players, including Player 1, playing each ball, draining, and advancing in FOUR player game. The only ball that is skipped is Player-1-Ball-1. When Player-4-Ball-3 drains, the game ends.

I will now go and perform your "cheat a bit" suggestion to see if it allows me to play a ONE-Player-Game.

"Sneak-in and secure a stripe of paper in-between the contact-points "23-24""

I just did as you instructed, and had strange results. The game stayed on Player 1 as you predicted, but now the Ball Count Unit has stopped advancing again. My jumper from "2 to 6" is still in place, but it is no longer making the Ball Count Unit advance. I am now stuck on Player 1-Ball 1 again, with the paper and jumper both in place.

Hi Rolf, yes, I have insulated jumpers/clips for safety.

" please look at the Coin-Unit - DOES the Coin-Unit RESET when You start a brand-new game"

- Yes, the Coin-Unit DOES Reset when I start a new game. I double-checked this by manually advancing it to the next position while the pin was off, then turned the pin on. The "2 Can Play" was lit instead of "1 Can Play". I started a new game. The Coin-Unit Reset properly and "1 Can Play" was lit. So it definitely resets when a new game is started.

"take away the jumper "2-6" and take away the sneaked-in stripe of paper."

- I removed the jumper 2-6 and the paper and started a new game. The game started with Player-1 Ball-1, and then played a FOUR Player game, all the way through from beginning to end, with all balls being played, and ending with Game Over after Player-4 Ball-3 drained.

"then start a game maybe for one player - or for 2,3,4 players - THEN (with the pin running) establish jumper "2-6". Then do tests and write about the results."

- I started a new ONE player game, and with pin on established jumper "2-6" as instructed. The game played the same as described above, a complete FOUR player game.

It looks like the Ball Count Unit issue is resolved, so now we need figure out why the game is stuck in a full 4 Player game.

We are getting close! Sleep well.

UPDATE! I took apart and cleaned the Coin Unit, reassembled, and now the game is working properly! I believe one of the connections was bad/dirty on the wiper blades. After shining everything up and cleaning it, the game properly tracks the number of players and Balls in Play. I played ONE Player, as well and TWO, THREE Player and FOUR Player games. No issues that I could tell. There are still some problems I need to work out, but the main issues are solved I think.

I will do some more tests tomorrow, but this one may be solved. I will return with any problems I find as I work on it tomorrow. Thank you Rolf and everyone that offered advice!