(Topic ID: 179489)

"Nic's North American Pinball Tour" (aka I'm coming to fix your games!)

By NicoVolta

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by pinwiztom
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    Topic index (key posts)

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    Post #1 NNAPT - Nic's North American Pinball Tour - The big plan Posted by NicoVolta (7 years ago)

    Post #90 Nic's background and how he got into the pinball hobby w/photos Posted by NicoVolta (7 years ago)

    Post #117 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by NicoVolta (7 years ago)

    Post #152 The map of the cross-country pinball tour is posted Posted by NicoVolta (7 years ago)

    Post #208 And so, the 15,000 mile, nearly 4-month trip begins! Posted by NicoVolta (7 years ago)

    Post #215 Visit #1 - Tony Macevicius (Tmacev1) in Lindale, TX (Atlantis) Posted by NicoVolta (7 years ago)

    Post #218 Visit #2 - David Yopp at The Retro in Millington, TN (Grand Prix) Posted by NicoVolta (7 years ago)

    Post #234 REGION 1 (Southeast bound) tour map - March 28 - April 17, 2017 Posted by NicoVolta (7 years ago)


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    #232 7 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    They are unique in that they can count up and down in single steps but also be instantly zeroed for game start up (that third relay coil armature).

    I like the Bally ones that can step up/down and just pulse both coils to zero over this design (simpler).

    Congrats to Nico for the great start! Looks like a lot of fun already.

    1 week later
    #317 7 years ago

    They are cheap, but they are hard to remove, even with the tool sometimes! That, or I have the bad luck to stomp on 1/5 of my metal post caps.

    I use a nut driver to remove them now rather than ruin my fingers.

    *Edit* You're talking about the non-Gottlieb ones. I take that back.

    #319 7 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    No, the hard ones are the acorn nuts which must be forced onto the posts. The nickel caps are threaded... easy on, easy off... but they can only be used on later games with threaded posts.

    Simultaneously edited and posted. Keep up the good work.

    2 weeks later
    #388 6 years ago

    I buy the really large 'police' headlamps with multiple settings. Unfortunately, the plastic housing always breaks, but they provide a great deal of light right where you need it. I get them from Harbor Freight, less than $10.

    I look stupid all the time anyway, why not when I work on machines?

    #403 6 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    Note Wayne Neyens signature on the Target Alpha apron. One of the last he did before leaving us.

    When did Wayne Neyens pass? I'm very sorry to say I missed the news, if he has.

    4 weeks later
    #611 6 years ago
    Quoted from Insane:

    the missing teeth are near the start of the rotation

    How many positions should the unit have? What unit is it? From what game?

    1 week later
    #710 6 years ago

    Sweet Hearts is quite a fun sequence game and a nudger's paradise. I'm also quite partial to gobble holes. According to IPDB, this is the last gobble hole game manufactured by Gottlieb. Excellent risk/reward. The shots are very tight to get back up, but quite satisfying.

    You can also skirt the edge of the gobble to get back up - obviously both are risky - post->drain or accidental gobble drain. Aiming is key!

    #714 6 years ago

    Absolutely - as the saying goes - different strokes for different folks.

    Of course you're always welcome to stop by and give the bingos a whirl if you're ever in my neck of the woods. Maybe some other sequence games, too!

    As to the Multi, it'll be at the York show this year. If you're doing the encore tour by then, come see me at the end of Sept.

    I've been very pleased to see the continued incredibly positive response to your tour. Keep it up!

    1 week later
    #770 6 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    YEP, CAUSE MONEYS! :p :p

    So your aversion to sequence games is just those on free play in home collections? What if I charge you a nickel or two to play?

    3 weeks later
    #931 6 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    And I now challenge you to find it.

    Grand Prix... they made a million of them and they all have issues like the one pictured. At least all the ones I've worked on.

    My least favorite part of that game (and some others from that late EM era Williams) are the relay banks mounted in a poor position under the playfield. It's really easy for a problem like the above to happen, but due to the construction of those relay banks, sometimes harder to find.

    The act of simply pulling the playfield can cause it, due to the design.

    #936 6 years ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    I have a single wire that gets caught on the prop rod and is getting stripped. I need to repair and cover the whole bundle with split wire wrap to protect it.

    I don't use the prop rod on that game. Or many late Williams games. Too easy to rip the insulation on wires, and it's easy enough to lift the playfield and tilt against the head. Don't move the machine while the playfield is up, and you'll be ok.

    1 week later
    #992 6 years ago

    Fitting that you end with Beach Queens - an interesting feature of those games are the powerful slings that can fling the ball back up the playfield. As your journey nears its conclusion, you will be rocketed back into normalcy, or queued back up for another round...

    Beautiful collection. Quite a treat! Thank you for sharing photos.

    #996 6 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    it seems rather bingo-esque having no flippers and being so nudgy.

    It's more closely related to the one ball horse race games of the 1940s, in my opinion. You are so involved with a one ball game - there are few games outside of those middle era gambling pinballs where you can make any mistake and still win.

    I hope to play one of these unique games one day.

    #1053 6 years ago

    Aw, shucks! Thanks Nic!

    Just doin' what I do. Once you're back and caught up on sleep, if you are interested in learning what makes these EM masterpieces tick, let me know. I'll be here!

    To you and @pinpilot, note that the reflex unit is used for auto-portioning. Based on how well you (or the previous folks) play the game, the reflex helps it to pull a few more nickels from you. The integration is a bit subtle, but what I can tell you about the picture there is that the operator was a cheapskate!

    The reflex is unlike many steppers in that it is additive. The more fingers connected to rivets, the better your chances of getting an award jump from a coin dropping in the game.

    From my experience, some operators understood that you do have to let people -play- the game, and some did not. I'm sure they made money, regardless.

    Anyway, the reflex was not the source of whatever the trouble was. @pinpilot, if you shoot me a pm or make a post in the bingo section, I am more than happy to walk you through the fix.

    This particular game, Gay Time, is one of the greatest games. The top row of balls can hop left and right, with the feature qualified, and the player can rearrange the first four columns of the bingo card at will (with -that- feature qualified). Spotted numbers, corners scoring, extra ball buyin, and higher scoring lines on the card... I could bore you to tears with how advanced the ball detection of that top row is (combination of AC and DC circuitry with an amazing array of switches), but I'll let it go for now.

    Remember what my friend Vic Camp said and many have echoed (paraphrased): flipper games are like checkers, bingos are like chess. The same is true of mechanics and circuitry as well as gameplay.

    #1086 6 years ago

    Thanks for documenting this, Nic. What a massive undertaking. Extended periods of intense pressure change a person. Very impressed that you retained your sense of humor and were able to spread the love of these electromechanical beauties.

    Congratulations! (Now get some rest!)
    -Nick

    1 month later
    #1298 6 years ago

    The only thing I care about in a meter is audible continuity beeps, Voltage (DC and AC), Resistance and Current measuring capability. Diode testing is nice, too (but not required).

    Most other things, unless you're doing bench testing, are overkill. Especially for EM.

    I used to be a die-hard analog meter person, but they are pretty hard to find these days. I still zero out the meter before measuring, though.

    3 weeks later
    #1363 6 years ago

    Well, you -can- do this, but then you're left with all the downsides of Molex connectors. I prefer Jones Plugs, myself.

    You can clean them, you can easily separate them, and they only need a portion of overall connector area to function in a 50v system.

    Molex connectors cannot be cleaned. You would need to key them differently to prevent mishaps. And you're increasing the likelihood of a failure due to bad crimp or other mechanical issue with the replacement. A bit of dirt will cause the connector to heat or fail.

    In short: if you do do this, keep the original plugs in the game (so if I buy it later I can switch it back).

    The Bally connectors are fine if you don't use all the strength of Hercules to rip them out (no twisting as you pull and use two hands). I've had the odd tab or two break, just replace the plug. Not the end of the world.

    #1366 6 years ago
    Quoted from DennisDodel:

    You will get a tighter fit with better contact.

    Plus a self-cleaning wiping action.

    #1369 6 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    I've seen more than a few plugged in correctly, and clean, and with no broken tabs, and STILL didn't get a good connection without a little fussing with it.

    Generally, that's from past abuse. As Dennis recommended above, unplug then gently squeeze the outside. Should last for another decade or two. The issue is mechanical - it's not making good physical connection, so can't make good electrical connection.

    Now, if the game has heated up considerably, the male bakelite plane will warp.

    The same problem occurs with Bally fuse blocks. I'm not such a stickler for originality there.... Keep in mind that issues with the plugs may actually be issues with the fuses. I really hope that fuse block design saved Bally a ton of money...

    If it's really bad, replace the plug. No, they're not making any more, but there are parts out there at the moment.

    Jones Plugs, in general are really quite nice. They are easy to unplug/replug, easy to clean, and easy to replace. I have never seen an improvement to that design. In my opinion, the only downside is the space needed to house the plugs. You should see the inside of the Multi-Bingo. More plugs than a standard bingo - I put them everywhere available. I use the Bally style Jones Plugs throughout. 'Course, we're talking 12V vs 50V, but this is a 'new' game build. Bally connectors have their strong points - namely, when you have solid mechanical connection, they are quite good. Multiple points of connection (at the through-hole, at the inside tab, at the outside tab) make them pretty good even if the mechanical connection is starting to fail, too.

    Prior to Jones Plugs, games used metal fingers that would mate with metal planes on another piece, like a playfield or a coin door. These fingers would break or touch and would also allow probing fingers to get shocked easily. Jones Plugs were a big advancement.

    4 weeks later
    #1416 6 years ago

    Curious about those washers under the flipper bat - won't they just chew through the bushing, creating the very flipper drag you are trying to prevent?

    #1422 6 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    Buy the heavy duty ones. And then dissect them to actually solder the wire to the clip.

    Better yet, make a test lamp!

    #1424 6 years ago

    Take an alligator clip and do some light soldering and taping and you can test circuits without some of the irritation of using a test lead. Putting a fuse or breaker in line helps you track down shorts (even ones you accidentally create with the probe).

    The easiest example I've seen is in the United bingo manuals. https://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/united/caravan/

    Click the manual and scroll to page 10 (according to the manual - pg 12 or 13 in the PDF. ). Couple of illustrations to give you an idea. Bingo paperwork is fantastic.

    This probe is used for testing 6V and 30V. But it can be modified, as I mention above, to test for 50V, 17V, 110V, etc.

    This is better than a continuity test as it will power the integrated lamp with the source voltage instead of 9V from a meter. Helps you quickly find a weak switch or switches.

    Hope that makes sense.

    3 weeks later
    #1474 6 years ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    I want to see the how to video on the build of this test rig. A score motor pulsing the step up and a relay closed by the last stepper step that fires the reset coil while opening the step up circuit.

    Wouldn't be difficult. Use three of the same type of stepper (with same gearing) for accurate results. You only need to wire in the max position switch or a maximum travel rivet to the score motor.

    What is the flash point for Finish Line and Break Free (and their propellants)?

    EDIT: Material Safety Data sheets compared from third party sources (meaning: not the companies that manufacture said product) show that most of these alternative lubes have a burning temp of approx 200 degrees F. Finish Line doesn't publish many specs about their product themselves, but luckily Dupont published a MSDS.

    3-in-1 household (the old standard) is substantially higher at near 300 degrees.

    And the best for temp/burn is Super lube which has some astronomical number (I think it was near 500).

    Now... who knows how hot a carbon spark thrown from a dirty stepper unit is?

    Each of the products mentioned (Finish Line, Super Lube, 3-in-1 and Break Free) will do the job. The question of best, in my opinion, is really kinda subjective. It is going to depend on your situation and comfort level with maintenance. All of these lubes will eventually require the same thing - slough off and apply new. Some are probably easier to clean off than others.

    #1476 6 years ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    Could probably use a single score motor to drive all 3

    Yes, that's what I was suggesting. No reason why not. Driving three coils isn't that big of a load. Even if it does need to be distributed to a second or third switch, just put them on the same cam bump and they all reset at once.

    #1478 6 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    Would be fun to watch it beat the crap out of the coil stops.

    Now, add three bonus ladders of lights attached to each stepper..... just to make it Purdy!

    Haha! True! I would seal it away, cuz the noise would get old. But add lights to it...

    Or! A chime when it hits max! Separate tone for each stepper.

    To make it truly normalized, you would need to replace the stops and the coils, I suppose.

    1 month later
    #1564 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    what is the correct action to take with old jones plugs that are loose and crappy?

    Bally? Squeeze the sides to give a little more pinch upon insertion. If a tab falls off, replace plug, or crack apart and replace tab, then re-rivet. Remember that Bally plugs get contact from more than the tiny opening that the male pin goes into - there is a split contact behind the pin, and then the entire outer tab as well. Lots of surface area for good conductivity.

    Other manufacturers, typically, squeeze the two female sides with a pair of pliers, gently, or squeeze the box portion gently with a pair of pliers.

    I would suggest against the rubber ring, personally, as it will hasten the demise of the plug. Bally, from the factory, did apparently install rubber rings around plugs prone to intense vibration (see Magic Pockets unit plug on Gayety/Gay Time for an example - it's mounted under the playfield in the back right beside this incredibly powerful series of kicker coils). Unless you're in that kind of environment, I'd leave off the ring.

    #1567 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    My fireball is loose and falling apart/missing a rivet or two it appears

    There's only two rivets holding the whole sandwich together, typically. If the plug is physically broken, just replace with another plug of the correct size. Takes just a few minutes with a soldering gun/iron.

    #1569 6 years ago

    ebay, other EM folks' parts bins, shows. You can also try Steve Young at the Pinball Resource.

    #1571 6 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    isn't the male spacing the same between them all?

    It's really dependent on the game and the era. One (or more) of the manufacturers used a different vendor at one point with different spacing. Don't recall all the details right now, but there are differences in spacing if you switch manufacturer/era. My rec would be to get a Bally for a Bally.

    Also, when you're looking for a plug, the plugs are measured by the number of pins - ex: 12 pin female, 24 pin female.

    1 month later
    #1814 6 years ago

    I've played Eclipse (but I prefer Black Hole). Eclipse felt a bit too easy to me - and I'm not a good player.

    #1843 6 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    It will be fun to see if we have any common ground whatsoever in terms of the kinds of gameplay we like. Funny how we are both heavily into EM’s yet never seem to agree on our favorites!

    Haha, I agree! I'm hoping that we can discuss and play some of my faves as well. Did I mention I have a bank of seven Sweet Hearts lined up beside each other?

    ...

    nah, I don't have any Sweet Hearts, but I do like that game.

    Quoted from Heretic_9:

    And wasn't this pin said to be a maintenance nightmare, with various standard components that really should be replaced with later, less trouble-prone equivalents ?

    Nothing too crazy, but it is a big, heavy cab. There are some recommended service things to do to make it more reliable. As one might expect, having a ball travel vertically from lower playfield to upper is the most difficult challenge, and there are a few things that you can do to prevent issues if a ball gets stuck on the upkicker. Same stuff for Haunted House. That said, I've never owned one of either title, just worked on 'em.

    #1897 6 years ago

    In Virginia, we have 'car tax relief' which knocks that number down significantly. I guess that was easier to pass than an outright repeal of the tax, since they still wanted -some- money. It usually ends up being about $65/vehicle/year in various localities near my city.

    #1899 6 years ago

    No, they have registration as well. That's extra. Nickels + dimes.

    1 month later
    #2046 6 years ago

    I lived in Roanoke when I was young - my family would hike up to the star to watch the sun rise frequently. Beautiful.

    2 weeks later
    #2107 6 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    I use the sanding flapwheel for smoothing out pitted contacts, followed by the 443 to polish. I just can't leave anything not smooth... polishing is strangely addictive...

    Am curious to know if you will be doing that for a quick fix to a low flipper power issue or pops not firing on all cylinders once you have things really rolling there.

    Not disparaging your technique, but am curious of long-term viability of sanding those contacts (paper or non) since you will eventually have to replace those switches anyway.

    Sounds like you're not taking shortcuts (who would've suspected you would?) and will be very pleased to come play the museum's games when I get over to that side of the state.

    #2109 6 years ago

    Sure - I meant when the contacts become pitted in the future as CJ was saying.

    1 week later
    #2128 5 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    Speaking of custom builds, I finally ran into none other than Nicholas Baldridge bingopodcast standing in front of his Multi-Bingo contraption. It was... well... how can one describe the splendor of a "multicade bingo system with hybrid mechanical aspects which perfectly mirror the originals?". Breathtaking.

    Seriously, awe-inspiringly impressive work here. I'm not typically a fan of bingo machines, but this... this... I want one for the museum. It perfectly preserves the game and is a true "best of both worlds" effort that is totally unique in its class. I sincerely hope a commercial/mass-produced version will be made someday to preserve the game for future generations. It's just too good not to share.

    Well done, Sir Baldridge. Clearly, we have more to discuss..

    Thank you for your kind words, Nic. It was a pleasure to finally meet (especially now that we are neighbors - only had to drive to Allentown to do it!). I also look forward to more chats. Don't spend all those replays in one place.

    4 months later
    #2230 5 years ago

    Think about the circuit in terms of components. What happens when you hit special? The relay engages, which fires the stepper to add a credit, and hit the knocker.

    What do you want it to do?

    Score bonus. Well, to do that, the motor will need to turn as it steps down the bonus stepper. Thankfully there will be a bonus collect relay that does this work for you, so you just need to make that circuit function via the special (replay) relay.

    Then resetting drop targets is easy - if you don't care about how many are currently down, just add a high-current switch pair to the replay relay and have it pulse the DT reset coil. You'll need to ensure that power is cut off to the coil once the targets are reset, if the bonus is still counting. Alternatively, pulse the coil only when the bonus is at zero position off of the bonus collect relay.

    If you do want the whole sequence down first, you'll have to chain off of a sequence relay or similar that engages (normally to light special or some other award).

    Examine the existing circuits to make sure you're not duplicating effort - use as few components as possible, and DOCUMENT the changes so that there isn't a bewildered technician 30 years from now.

    2 weeks later
    #2239 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinwiztom:

    At what point would the grinding down and smoothing out of those transition dips on the motor cam
    affect the timing of opening/closing switches that in return might affect those switches function?

    On Bally games with bakelite cams, this is a real problem. The metal-on-bakelite contact will change the bakelite's shape over time. I would be wary of introducing it to a metal carousel for exactly that reason. A slight sloping shouldn't hurt, but the cam riders were designed with the sharper drop in mind, and the timing of motor switches can cause some serious problems. You see these types of problems more frequently, of course, in bingos, where the timing of EVERYTHING is critical. Only whatever switches are riding on that cam would be impacted.

    From the pic, we're not talking much, and in home use - it won't be a problem on a flipper game. I wouldn't encourage it, but I'm sure NicoVolta already guessed that.

    #2241 5 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    Would anything 3D printed be strong enough to do the job?

    I don't have enough experience with 3d printing to say for sure. I only know that most fixes will be temporary.

    Metal on Bakelite beats metal on plastic for durability, though!

    And yeah, if there's a burr or a notch, then it needs to be smoothed out - bingo, flipper, baseball or otherwise.

    8 months later
    #2311 4 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    Yes, this is common especially on Bally games. Perhaps the design and final revision changed after the parts were ordered? You'll see empty ones on Bally motor switch stacks too.

    That's just Bally saving some money on assembly. Same motor/relay configuration used on multiple games. The empty switches are populated on other games, but the assembly didn't need to change from game to game. Savings (in people time for assembly) outweighed the expense of the extra switches.

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