There is a written warranty. And it basically says "Have a nice day". In reality that means they might do something, or they might not depending on how bad it is for them. That is why they call it a Playfield Lottery. It's the most expensive thing in a game (not just parts, but all the labor). If a single mech breaks, they will always support you. But playfields are always a risk.

Search the manuals or websites for warranty information. It's there.

LTG : )

The warranty has been written for Commercial use. True route operators have a service crew to repair things that break. Moving parts break. A steel ball hitting things will eventually cause them to break. Those playfield parts are typically not warranted.

Commercial route operators expectation is that the control circuitry will be trouble free for 2-3 months while the machines rake in serious money. After that, it's pay-as-you-go for parts and possibly labor if the operator is not capable of repairing their own circuit boards.

I've had 2 playfields replaced by the manufacturers. One Stern (populated), and one JJP (unpopulated). That was a little while ago. The Stern one took 6 months to get. And honestly I shrank my NIB buying because of it. I now try to buy games I want during that first wave of selling that new games have. That way I can inspect them for playfield issues and reject the ones I do not approve of.

It is what it is. Neither company has been struggling because I am reluctant to buy NIB games. They both have a backlog of games to build that are already sold. If not enough people buy them, there are none to get HUO, and greater minds can worry about that. I'm considering a new game right now, but NIB is my last resort.

There will never be a large enough group of pinball people to actually put real pressure on manufacturers. Again, see above that they can't even make enough games for the sales they have. People are waiting 6 months for new games, maybe even longer.

As DaveH said, all the manufacturers have written warranties. Here's Stern's written warranty (from the TMNT Pro manual, but I don't know that it's changed much over the years):

Stern Warranty.jpg

Here's JJP's written warranty (from the GnR manual) [EDIT: May 2021 Edition]:

JJP Warranty.jpg

Whoops, I misread, the current warranty is dated March 2121, not May 2021.

And here's CGC's written warranty (from the Monster Bash link on their website):

CGC Warranty.jpg

As written, Stern and JJP provides no coverage for playfield or cabinet defects. CGC's written warranty is more expansively worded and presumably includes playfield and cabinet defects for 3, 6, or 12 months, subject to interpretation of the phrase "normal wear and tear."

That said, Stern has a long history of providing "warranty" support for components that are expressly excluded from the written warranty, often years outside of the written warranty period. I haven't owned a JJP but I'd guess they have broadly similar policies. What that means for playfields is both uncertain and evolving, and seemingly hinges on how bad your individual situation is, how wide-spread the problem is (i.e. how expensive it would be for the mfr. if it starts covering your specific issue), and how loudly and publicly you complain.

As MrBally said, these warranties read like they do because of the commercial/route background of the business. Operators didn't expect and weren't willing to pay extra for the types of warranties that are standard with consumer electronics. And home consumers haven't raised a huge fuss because of the informal/"good will" coverage that's extended for most things. Could one manufacturer gain an advantage by putting their actual existing practices into their written warranty, or by providing express coverage for playfield clearcoat issues? Maybe, but would that offset the added cost of providing additional coverage, and lost sales due to price increases necessitated by increased coverage costs?

I'd suggest you get a good distributor and they will help you out with issues. When you buy, pick a good distributor and they will make up the difference.

The service you get will greatly differ from distro to distro so find someone you know who has had a great relationship with a distro and go with the same one...

I would continue to buy second hand if I was you

Agreed 100%. And because you are used to working with manufacturers, you also know the real answer is don't put out shitty playfields. We all know that Stern is capable of putting out amazing playfields, and each time we start bitching too much, they pop out a title or two with amazing and durable playfields. And we all slap ourselves on the back that we "made" them make better playfields.

When I see that, I am pretty sure that means the cost of doing putting out amazing ones is higher, and so it is more profitable to do the less durable ones and deal with the cases where they are so poor they need to be replaced. I don't know their cost structure, but I see their actions.

This happens everywhere. Products get scaled back until the failure rate becomes more costly to deal with comparted the cost savings of a worse product. Whichever cost is lower, that is the one they will do. They are a business, so they have to.

People should also keep in mind that every state has its own set of laws designed to protect consumers. Note that each such law's "teeth" and usefulness in this situation varies state by state and its application to this type of transaction may also vary given the dollar amount, sales contract with distributor etc.

As with all things you hope to never have to rely on a warranty or consumer law versus simply working out a reasonable solution with your business partner (the distributor and/or manufacturer). Life is never that simple and it seems anecdotally that some people have received better service than others (minor issues on play fields resulting in a replacement versus major issues being let go without resolution).

As prior posters have said - it makes being second/third owner more attractive sometimes.

Warning! Incoming Cargument!

Think of a pinball machine warranty as a heavy equipment warranty vs. a passenger car warranty.
An excavating contractor has very different ideas of what a problem with a bulldozer is compared to your grandma's minivan.
The excavating contractor probably has a mechanic on staff, or contracts with a service company. They will only go back to the manufacturer with a warranty claim if something catastrophic happens.
Your grandma will probably be back at the dealer to check the air in her tires.

re cragument I bought a car frame off nut and bolt restoration paid 2k shipping 4k tax and it wasnt as described I complain to the dealer he says send it back full refund.great hes amazing .All i have to do is eat 4k shipping there and back 4k taxes and 1k I already paid a shop to make it drivable.For a full refund I would only lose 9k.

Simply put; just don't buy NIB. Too much risk.
JJP deserves to go out of business for now the third game with PF issues.
And now they aren't even bothering to offer any remedy.
Seriously; JJP needs to fux right off.

Like...hand written?

This is not good business sense.

I feel for people like Eric, those who had a hand in the games development and LTG Having to deflect people concerns. I think it is the accountants that are not signing off on the extra $40 BOM (just a guess) to fix the playfield problems by either bining off Highclasspinball and finding someone else.. or stumping up for better materials.

I bet JJP have put a playfield contract out to tender and that the $$$ coming back are over what they are willing to pay.

Highclasspinball this will also have a knock on effect of your other playfield sales independent of JJP.
Mirco will you tell us what is really going on!?

Also routed pins get more plays early for when things most likely defective will break. A HUO pin might see in one year the amount of plays a good location will get in a few days or weeks. The manufacturers really should define separate warranty periods for commercial and personnel pins

Very interesting, because here's a snippet from the JJP warranty mentioned in the GnR manual currently available online here: http://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/gnr/GNR_Manual_Nov2020.pdf

And was the one in effect when I purchased my machine:

====================

What is covered on the game?
Our Bumper to Post“ Limited Warranty” covers every part in your new Jersey Jack Pinball Machine for 90 days from the date of purchase written on your invoice. The LCD monitor will be covered for 1 year from the date of purchase written on your invoice.

====================

When did they change it to inclusion language I wonder?

I had an conversation.. well argument that Stern & JJP could be held accountable if it went to court.. my friends argument was that is is a commercial product and that Stern & JJP would use that as the games were not intended for use in home environment and so warranty is void!

I came back with LE & CE are specifically aimed at home collectors and so should have a different time frame for HUO games.

Now that JJP have chosen to sell directly to the public it should have a different warranty

Also another thing to think about, are these companies cost cutting on playfield materials - (softer wood, thinner ink, clear coat) because a HUO playfield has a lot more care/ maintaining than a routed game.. balls changed more regularly, playfield clean & wax, not as much play as a routed game..

Is the HUO collector market now bigger than Operators.. I think it is.. certainly in the UK

I don't think Stern could argue their games are not intended for use in a home environment given how often they social media post about people's home collections (like this: https://www.instagram.com/p/CPRLFRPrAyS/) and their "Affordable Home Games" line.

Although their home pins do have a different warranty:

LIMITED CONSUMER WARRANTY 60 DAYS LABOR 60 DAYS PARTS

So that's something

Hey ya never know. Some people didn't even know pinball machines had warranties until today.

Did B/W ever have warranties? Genuinely asking here.

Seems like this warranty silliness started with Stern around Ghostbusters....

Huh, that does look like a significant change. The GnR manual I snipped from is dated May 2021 so maybe that's brand new language, maybe designed to mirror Stern's written warranty?

Whoops, I misread, the current warranty is dated March 2121, not May 2021.

Funny or very deceptive - but I don't see anywhere (maybe I misread) how long the warranty is.
I see a table with numbers, but what are the numbers ?
Seconds ? Hours ? Days ? Weeks ? Months ? Years ? Decades ?

I suspect it's months, but I do not see the word 'month' ???

With Bally, Williams and Gottlieb EM machines, Motors had a generous six-month warranty. Everything else had the Taillights Warranty.

With the first Solid-State games, the distributors warranted circuit boards for 90 days. That was it. We'd have coil stops breaking immediately on Gorgars and Time Warp etc. Distributors were happy to sell replacements. Also the associated fried flipper coils. Same for failed drive transistors and stuff, they would repair the board (Sorry, we're backed up, ten business days to fix) and the fried coils were not covered. We'd replace the transistors and fried resistors to get the game making money.

FWIW a Sega pinball cost around $3000, or $5500 adjusted for inflation. That the kind of warranty they should have for a $12,500 machine? I guess as long as people keep paying it.

Dude, love ya. So don’t take this the wrong way.

JJP is inundated with orders. They had so many orders for GNR that they raised the price by a thousand dollars. As a community, we love what they are doing. And the only barometer I’m using for that is that they have a massive backlog of games they have been paid to build. They are a massive success with those playfield issues.

The thing you are not accounting for is labor. If this was a simple sheet of plywood, sure, send it back to JJP and they deal with Mirco to get it replaced and drop shipped to your door. Unfortunately the actual cost of putting that playfield into a game is much higher, and beyond the capabilities of most people. That is what makes this business different.

And don't get me wrong, I agree, it stinks. I'd vastly prefer all manufacturers to take the greatest care with their playfields. It is by far the most expensive component of a game, because everything touches it. The playfield is the heart of a game, and when it is bad, the entire game is crap because of it. Nobody wants to buy a modern game with a trashed playfield.

JJP playfields have had these same problems for several years now, you'll see that if you go back and read the threads on Wonka and POTC playfields.

But JJP apparently just this March (or sometime between this March and last November, anyway) made major changes to the written GnR warranty that removed coverage for the playfield. I'm not a warranty lawyer, but if I received my game before the change I'd argue that I'm entitled to the old warranty (which as I read it would cover the playfield, though I guess that all depends on when they date the invoice). And if I preordered before the change but haven't received my game yet, I'd consider demanding a refund of my deposit based on material changes to the deal that I didn't agree to.

Customers may also have been expecting JJP to take the same approach with GnR playfield defects that it did with Wonka and POTC, where it seemed like at least some people were able to get replacements.

The thing that gets me about thee arguments is that these machines are not made for home use and are not intended to be sold to non operators, these are commercial vending machines, you should know how to diagnose fix and repair if you are the purchaser, otherwise it's on you to find a reliable tech.
I hang with a bunch of old timers and they always talk about how they had to troubleshoot and fix stuff right out of the box back in the day, seems that's still the case.
When I purchase NIB, I fully expect to have to work on the pin, I fully expect things to break and need fixing. Why is that a problem for people? If you don't want to have to fix your $10K game right out of the box, don't buy it, that's the deal and you know it.
I recently purchased a very expensive concrete pump, and it needed minor repair and adjustment right out of the box, no biggie as I was expecting some set up and troubleshooting issues in order to get it to run correctly, it's made for professional use, not for home owners so some expertise is expected and required. Obviously it's the same with pinball.
Just my 2 cents.
B

Sorry dude, but most people do not know how to touch up and clear playfields or much less have the experience to do a playfield swap. We are not talking about soldering a wire on or rebuilding flipper mechs here. I do not even know if your average pinhead could even come close to fixing these recent playfield issues. Especially if it is a artwork adhesion problem then the entire playfield is compromised.

Not sure I agree that these are not intended to be sold to non operators. The home market is now the largest market and they have to cater to that audience. I doubt CEs are going go into commercial settings in any significant numbers. I do agree with you that these are complex games with a lot of moving parts that will go out of adjustment or otherwise need fixing, and people should be prepared for it. But to have playfields with paint chipping in a few hundred games or less is not going to get any manufacturer very far and is a defect that should be covered by a warranty.

I had a hard time as a noob doing a populated AC/DC premium playfield swap lol. I spent a couple hours total with Chaz Saddiqi from Stern to figure out what to disconnect and stuff. Many people buying these aren’t capable of playfield repair. Little adjustments are one thing, but shit quality is another.

Is it? do you have data to back that up? How many disros are set up to only sell to the home market vs selling to operators? Why are "production" models released first if the main market is home use? Of course the rona screwed everything up, but that is a whole other discussion.
B

Are they confident the company and/or machine will last 100 years? Seems unlikely.

Even if capable, most people just don't want to do it. Things can break or maybe you hurt your back in the process. Once you do the swap, no telling if everything is going to work or more pf issues. It's just not a good plan and I think that is why Stern/JJP are moving away from delivering pf's for these issues. If anything, I think retailers should do a better job explaining the actual warranty and what is expected when buying a game. Problem is that might reduce sales so doubt that will happen.

Talk to people and you will get your answer. Sales soared last year and yet most arcades were closed, that’s pretty easy to tell who bought them. Production models aren’t always released first, aiq le came out before any other aiq model.

With early Solid State games, the distributors (real distributors who sold multiple product lines, had a staffed service department and a well stocked parts department) unboxed games and set them up and prepped them. NIB games needed adjustment and sometimes part replacements.
If an operator did not want to wait but immediately pick up a game as it came in from the factory to the distributor; the operator assumed responsibility for any repairs and adjustments and that included faulty parts if it was not a circuit board.
Even if you did not want the distributor to unbox and set the game up, the distributor service department technician would go out into the warehouse and discreetly cut open the box to put the distributor tags on each circuit board and sealed the box back up. This was because the Distributors would only work on the boards that they sold under warranty. There were protected territory rules that some unscrupulous operators would find a workaround and get games from a different geographic region distributor.

New pins almost always had a gouges on the playfield in a spot or two from an errant air screwdriver or drill gone amuck. On real bad marks, we (on the Operator side) would touch them up using a few basic paint colors we kept. Or just blacken the raw wood with a magic marker.

I've worked for Bally Midwest in Livonia, Michigan for a brief period of time in the service department. There were at least 12 service technicians there working full-time.

Fair point, but I'm not correcting my (incorrect) correction - there has to be a limit!