(Topic ID: 302256)

NIB TMNT Pro - Rippled playfield

By revoke

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Jaytech10
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There are 58 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 2 years ago

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here. I picked up a NIB TMNT Pro a few weeks ago, finally got it setup and noticed the playfield has this weird rippled effect across the entire thing. In most areas you can actually feel the ridges as you drag your finger across the playfield. Anyone seen this before? I'm sitting here wondering how this thing made it through the assembly line and the entire time nobody questioned the quality. Here's a video of it as well: https://streamable.com/lrnogi

First time owning a NIB pin, I'm about the contact the distributor but I'm curious what should I expect the outcome to be? Will they send a replacement populated playfield? An empty playfield? Ask for the game back? Tell me to live with it?

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#2 2 years ago

Looks like woodgrain to me in the video. Less apparent what it is in the stills. Stern's been doing this thin clear for like....at least a decade. My Tron had raised areas like you're seeing around the Turtle Power insert. I would be surprised if they do much of anything in response to your email. If you want a thicker clear that will look like glass (until you play on it), then you're going to have to pull the playfield, strip it, and send it off to a professional clearcoater. Be prepared to twiddle your thumbs for a good long while, as it takes time to shoot the clear, wait for it to cure, sand it back to flat, clean it, shoot another coat, etc...

*Edit* others with more experience with more recent Sterns may have a more knowledgeable and/or relevant response for you.

#3 2 years ago

Meant to add there are edges of the artwork that feel raised as well, I would describe it akin to someone placing decals throughout the playfield then spraying a thin layer of clear on top of it if that makes sense. It feels like a lot of the artwork edges or thick black lines are 'raised' underneath the clear.

#4 2 years ago

Contact your distributor and Stern direct, they’ll probably end up giving you an unpopulated playfield, although there has been cases where they have given populated playfields. Don’t come off like a jerk, it usually works out much better that way.

#5 2 years ago

Seems like nothing wrong to me?

#6 2 years ago

Pretty common these days. I would not expect anything. Play it and enjoy it.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Bingovit:

Seems like nothing wrong to me?

Watch the video and focus on the reflection on the playfield. I wasn't sure if this was normal until I looked at some of the playfields here locally, their reflections are crystal clear and smooth while the top of my playfield looks like it's rippled, wavy reflection and somewhat blurry. If I roll a ball down the playfield it almost sounds like it's very lightly skipping or rolling over really tiny grit when it picks up high speed. Doesn't seem to affect ball trajectory, so I guess that's a plus?

I dunno you're saying this is normal for a Stern I guess I'll just accept it for what it is.

#8 2 years ago

What does the warranty say about playfields?

Speaking of warranty, what is this blurb about perchlorate? I've never noticed it before.
"PERCHLORATE MATERIAL - Special handling may apply.
See www.dtsc.ca.gov/hazardouswaste/perchlorate "

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:

Pretty common these days. I would not expect anything. Play it and enjoy it.

Yup. The new printing process is very thin. No where near what it used to be.

#10 2 years ago

About half the new Sterns I see are like this

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from revoke:

I dunno you're saying this is normal for a Stern I guess I'll just accept it for what it is.

I had some woodgrain stuff (similar to that, but I don't remember swirls, more slight ridges everywhere) on a beatles playfield that I thought looked pretty bad. Stern decided to replace it, but not because of that. There were some tears in the artwork that the apron edge cut into (that honestly didn't bother me). Worked out though, they sent me a populated playfield that looked really nice. Doesn't hurt to try and ask, I wouldn't expect anything though.

12
#12 2 years ago

This is material absorption. You can sand and clear then sand and clear one of these repeatedly and make it better or perhaps eliminate it but it is truly just cosmetic once you get beyond a certain clear application point.
The clear on this is very thin right now no doubt so making it a bit thicker will make it glossier hopefully less grained looking and more durable but you only may or may not truly eliminate the graining you see there with that process unless you over apply and that comes with its own issues.
There is a sweet spot and it may still show graining in that sweet spot but wouldn’t introduce new problems.
I would just play and enjoy it,getting a better playfield from the manufacturer is doubtful and a bare playfield is worthless unless you plan on swapping it.

#13 2 years ago

Unless it causes air balls, I doubt they are going to do anything. It’s probably within spec. These are never going to be as shiny and smooth as one that comes from a professional restorer spraying clear. Play a few thousand games then sell it if it really bugs you.

#14 2 years ago

After about 50 games it'll be dimpled so badly you won't be able to see it anymore. Play it and have fun.

#15 2 years ago

This was from my AC/DC Pro Vault almost 4.5 years ago. You could see the wood grain through almost all of the playfield. Four and a half years later, you can still see it, along with some dimples of course. Overall it’s holding up perfectly. I’ve had bad playfields before, and had to have them replaced. Honestly I never notice this one anymore. I’ve cleaned it a couple of times (never a full tear down though).

I doubt Stern would do anything for yours. They tend to only replace the really bad ones.

Quoted from DaveH:

I took another picture of the would grain that is over the whole playfield.

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Quoted from DaveH:

But I'll just ignore it for now.

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Note: These pics are 4.5 years old. I didn’t bother taking them again.

#16 2 years ago

What’s the build date on the back of the game? This “planking” effect was VERY common on all Sterns around 2019, but the clear has been thicker in the last year or so.

The thinner clear playfields from that era are less prone to dimpling though and seem to hold up really well.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:

Pretty common these days. I would not expect anything. Play it and enjoy it.

That is a sad statement ... can't expect much for 6-8K

#18 2 years ago

It’s really around the lighting but if it’s that concerning then sell to someone for what you think it’s appropriate.

Many sterns have shown that in the right light

#19 2 years ago

I bought a stern pirates last year that has the same ribbing. The machine is from 2006. Playfield is beautiful otherwise with not even a dimple. Then I bought a nib guardians that had the exact same thing. Looked identical as if the same machine sprayed the playfield. My distributor said it sometimes happens and stern won't warranty that but I never tried to contact them. Interested to hear what they say to you.

#20 2 years ago

My LOTR has the ribbing. Bought a NOS LOTR playfield to clearcoat it because we love the game and it will probably never leave. It also had the ribbing. Scuffed the factory clear, added 3 coats of clear, sanded it flat, then added 3 more coats of clear. It's been curing for about 4 months...

Hate to give the OP sad news, but even our newer games have the ribbing. But no worries, the dimpling that's coming will flatten all the ridges you see.

Just play it and have fun. It doesn't look like ANY games by ANY manufacturer are losing value these days, with any flaws they may or may not have.

#21 2 years ago

I think pinside helps set some unreal expectations of what playfield should be like, and that is half the problem. If you look at CPR reproduction playfields, they have these same issues. I don't think any mass produced playfield has its clear coat sanded and buffed out. CPR told me they do not. The way you get them is how they came off the gun for the final coat.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from Happy81724:

It’s really around the lighting but if it’s that concerning then sell to someone for what you think it’s appropriate.

Good thinking... dump it on someone else ?

#23 2 years ago

My NIB BM66 has the ribbing also, it's the new normal apparently.
BM66 dimples are very noticeable, think its the low light that shows them more.
I was very disappointing initially but to be honest, you get over it.

Just play it, could be worse...... chipping on the other hand is a real sh^t show!

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

This was from my AC/DC Pro Vault almost 4.5 years ago. You could see the wood grain through almost all of the playfield. Four and a half years later, you can still see it, along with some dimples of course. Overall it’s holding up perfectly. I’ve had bad playfields before, and had to have them replaced. Honestly I never notice this one anymore. I’ve cleaned it a couple of times (never a full tear down though).
I doubt Stern would do anything for yours. They tend to only replace the really bad ones.

Note: These pics are 4.5 years old. I didn’t bother taking them again.

Thanks for sharing these pics and your experience with the playfield, seems consensus is this is pretty common. =/

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

I think pinside helps set some unreal expectations of what playfield should be like, and that is half the problem. If you look at CPR reproduction playfields, they have these same issues. I don't think any mass produced playfield has its clear coat sanded and buffed out. CPR told me they do not. The way you get them is how they came off the gun for the final coat.

I honestly had a hard time finding similar issues on pinside, wasn't even sure what to call this. Majority of the pics I found online seemed to reference cupping near inserts and pooling, oh and lots of dimpling. I checked my local machines, definitely saw the dimpling on the Stern machines but none seemed to have the same issue I saw on this one. I figured that was just part of owning a pin, this ripple mess just caught me way off guard.

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

That is a sad statement ... can't expect much for 6-8K

If it bothers people enough they can always pivot to AP, and Spooky. Those companies seem to know the "secret sauce" when it comes to good clearcoats. CGC isn't too shabby either from the ones I've seen. Not sure why the decline in quality from Stern, and JJP has always seemed to struggle.

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

This is material absorption.

So the wood swelling up from the clear? I've seen this on a few pinside posts and finally one that I received, but it seems pretty rare... or maybe it happens in batches idk. like the OP said most playfield issue threads seem to be aimed around pooling, tearing and dimpling.

here were the pics of mine had to dig em up.

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#28 2 years ago

I have the same issues on a stranger things. This is a NIB came like this.

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#29 2 years ago

Like I said, pretty common if it isn't sanded between coats, which only high end restorers do. Here is a brand new Meteor playfield from CPR. You can see the wood grain in the reflections. Looks fine under glass, and plays amazing.

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#30 2 years ago

I saw a similar effect once in a cpr repro playfield (PF). The surface looked fine when I received it, but then I put is aside in a climate controlled room for 5 months to make sure the clear was hardened. When I pulled it out again, the finish had more ridges than a Ruffles potato chip. It looked like the original clear was sinking irregularly into the grain of the wood or that someone had dragged a thick bristle brush over the clear when it was still tacky. The manufacturer told me sorry, but that is normal and there is always variation with wood products.

Search out the Kruzman monthly PF thread and see post #624 for pics of what my PF looked like 5 months after receiving it.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kruzman-monthly-playfield-thread/page/13

Good luck negotiating. Be polite and tactful.

#31 2 years ago

I for one am very happy to see this thread. I had a feeling that this "ribbed effect" that I've noticed on some of the newer sterns was just par for the course, but I'd always wondered quietly if some of my playfields had come from a rushed batch or something of that ilk.
Seems as though this is rather commonplace, so for those who have chimed in on this thread, I appreciate it as it gives me closure on that, so my sincere thanks again.

#32 2 years ago

Welcome to the NIB lottery!

TLDR - some Sterns are like this out of the box... and unless it's to the point of coming apart... that's just what it is..

Another reason to buy HUO games, not NIB.

#33 2 years ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

The manufacturer told me sorry, but that is normal and there is always variation with wood products.

That really is true. For example, look at the pictures an unrestored NOS CFTBL on Ron's own site, and you can see the same thing, so it's not just Stern or CPR.
https://pinballplayfieldskruzman.com/2021/03/16/creature-from-the-black-lagoon-bally-williams-nos-price-tbd/

It's not something that will affect game play or your score in any way, and after enough games, it probably isn't anything noticeable. If you can't live with it, then you have to go the route of sending it off to have it clear coated (perhaps to Ron, he does amazing work).

Realize, it will cost you many hundreds of dollars, and your new machine will be out of service for many months. To me it isn't worth it for this issue. I would rather spend time playing games, and money buying more games, but to each their own.

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from ChipScott:

I for one am very happy to see this thread. I had a feeling that this "ribbed effect" that I've noticed on some of the newer sterns was just par for the course, but I'd always wondered quietly if some of my playfields had come from a rushed batch or something of that ilk.
Seems as though this is rather commonplace, so for those who have chimed in on this thread, I appreciate it as it gives me closure on that, so my sincere thanks again.

Yes to sum up, it's not normal to have a "ribbed" play field but since it happens so often with Sterns, it's now normal.

#35 2 years ago

What, no joke about the playfield being “ribbed” for your pleasure?!?

2 months later
#36 2 years ago

Sorry to revive an old thread but just wanted to show the new "normal" Stern playfield with ribbing, unfortunately. I'll reach out and see if anything can be done.

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#37 2 years ago
Quoted from mostater:

Sorry to revive an old thread but just wanted to show the new "normal" Stern playfield with ribbing, unfortunately. I'll reach out and see if anything can be done.
[quoted image]

I’ve seen new cpr playfields come out like that. That’s how a lot of them come out as an “off the gun” clear coat. They don’t cut and buff these, so they will never look like the professional restoration jobs shown here on Pinside.

I’m sure it’s not what you want to hear, but it’ll be considered a reasonably minor cosmetic issue, and since it’ll still play just fine, I doubt you will get a replacement. Give it a few hundred games and it’ll be so dimpled up and you won’t notice.

#38 2 years ago

My Mando Pro looks like this too. My SW Pro does not. Both have dimples. It's wood. Wood is an imperfect substance. Tis what it tis. Maybe it's because I have owned 30 games and only recently have bought 2 NIB games...but these minor issues are nothing compared to what I have seen and dealt with on all my used pins! As long as I don't get any chipping I'm good.

#39 2 years ago

There is a Godzilla premium on route around here that has way worse ribbing than that one. I've never seen the ribbing so bad. Funny thing was the pro that was sitting next to it was smooth as glass.

My guardians had it pretty bad as well. Similar to yours and my distributor said it was normal and stern would do nothing about it. My avengers premium that arrived in Sept didn't originally have any ribbing as I checked it close but has developed very minor ribbing as the air got dryer the last few months

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from C0untDeM0net:

There is a Godzilla premium on route around here that has way worse ribbing than that one. I've never seen the ribbing so bad. Funny thing was the pro that was sitting next to it was smooth as glass.
My guardians had it pretty bad as well. Similar to yours and my distributor said it was normal and stern would do nothing about it. My avengers premium that arrived in Sept didn't originally have any ribbing as I checked it close but has developed very minor ribbing as the air got dryer the last few months

What you are calling ribbing is most likely caused by "dieback". The clear coat continues to shrink as it cures, for weeks after it was applied. What you end up seeing is the slightest hints of the wood grain texture coming through. You probably can't even feel it, but because it is so glossy when new, the light catches the slight ripple with the glass off and it is visible.

The only way to get around this in manufacturing would be to spray the playfield, then wait 6-8 weeks for it to fully cure before sanding it back and shooting another layer of clear coat, then wait another 6-8 weeks to cut and buff to a mirror finish. Obviously no manufacturer is going to go to this length to produce a finish that is going to be dimpled and worn over the first few hundred plays. The clear coat is really there to help protect the artwork from the ball rolling over it millions of times over its life.

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from C0untDeM0net:

My guardians had it pretty bad as well

My Guardians was routed at a laundromat in Tampa for a few years before I got it. The balls were all rusty, the playfield was never cleaned, was really grimey, and you couldn't even see sections of the artwork. I was amazed how well it cleaned up with some novis 2, and how the playfield looks like it could have been a home use only machine. While we may not always be happy with the finish out of the box, the clear coat on these does seem to hold up really well to abuse.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

My Guardians that was routed at a laundromat in Tampa for a few years before I got it. The playfield was never cleaned and had a number of sections where it was really grimey and you couldn't see some of the artwork. I was a bit worried that the grime meant there would be some wear. I was amazed how well it cleaned up with some novis 2, and how the playfield looks like it could have been a home use only machine. While we may not always be happy with the finish out of the box, the clear coat on these does seem to hold up really well to abuse.

#43 2 years ago

Just saw this on Facebook. Apparently it has been happening for quite a while...

Screenshot_20220111-005824_Facebook (resized).jpgScreenshot_20220111-005824_Facebook (resized).jpg
1 month later
#44 2 years ago

This is nothing new to Stern playfields. I’ve seen this on LOTR and TSPPs and Spideys that are HUO as well. It bothered me at first when I thought it was something bad but honestly when you show me one after many many plays it still looks great. It almost seems to me like the ones with this texture seem to show less dimples over time.

3 weeks later
#45 2 years ago

So with all the new games shipping how are the new playfields? This thread has aged 24 days but I feel it is worth bumping back up top.

3 weeks later
#46 2 years ago

And.......how are all the newest ones arriving?

#47 2 years ago

The same as the previous ones. Some are going to have that ribbing. Some won’t. It’s historically a playfield defect stern doesn’t replace. Unfortunately.

#48 2 years ago

There are a number of new machines on location around here and every single one of them has some level of the ribbing. 2 Avengers Pre that I've seen, Rush Pre and a Pro, Godzilla pre. The worst one I have seen is the godzilla premium. Most of them you have to really look for it.

3 weeks later
#49 1 year ago
Quoted from C0untDeM0net:

There are a number of new machines on location around here and every single one of them has some level of the ribbing. 2 Avengers Pre that I've seen, Rush Pre and a Pro, Godzilla pre. The worst one I have seen is the godzilla premium. Most of them you have to really look for it.

Update:
I reached out to the distributer who contacted Stern. Stern agreed to send a new playfield based on my pictures. I did not hear of any push back which is what I was expecting. It took a few months to arrive and the distributor installed it. It was a fully populated playfield, too...apron and all...and a pleasant surprise. No ribbing on the new one and it looks so much better. The old playfield had to be sent back to Stern. Awesome support all around. And, yes, I do feel very fortunate in how this turned out.

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from mostater:

Update:
I reached out to the distributer who contacted Stern. Stern agreed to send a new playfield based on my pictures. I did not hear of any push back which is what I was expecting. It took a few months to arrive and the distributor installed it. It was a fully populated playfield, too...apron and all...and a pleasant surprise. No ribbing on the new one and it looks so much better. The old playfield had to be sent back to Stern. Awesome support all around. And, yes, I do feel very fortunate in how this turned out.

Congratulations, My distributor told me to go away lol. Glad you got a good resolution. I am a bit shocked they warrantied that with a fully populated playfield. Chips in the playfield on my AIQ Premium only got me an unpopulated playfield I'll have to swap over at some point. Not looking forward to that.

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