Hate to break it to ya, but there is no logic in pinball!!!

Used games have gotten scarcer and the prices of them are so ridiculous that its close enough to the price of a new game, so just get a new game instead. That was the logic I used when I bought my DP last year. Also theres a lot of new blood in the hobby, they want new games because they often don't appreciate the classics or they view them as more reliable. Then theres the guys who know they can buy pretty much any new game and flip it for extra cash or at the very least pretty much break even.

I've got a strong suspicion that NIB will be the cheapest you'll see a pinball going forward.

When the game is no longer being produced the price will increase.

Examples abound...

If it is a Stern and it's an LE, you can buy it, get it first, and you will be almost guaranteed to be able to get your money back out of it if you decide you hate it. I personally only have one NIB, my Rick and Morty. I only bought it NIB and blind without playing it because it was the only way to get one, and they sold out in hours. This is a mixed bag and needs to be a game you absolutely love, as not all NIB blind purchases are things you can get your money back out of (see Ultraman). I have another NIB on order, Weird Al, but it is because it is a personal dream theme of mine. Up until the start of COVID you could readily get NIB pins, but recently the only way to guarantee getting a pin in a timely manner has been buying LEs.

Also... I almost always go used (when cheaper) as I view pins as temporary and trade them frequently. If you are careful, you can buy pretty much anything, play it for a while, then sell it and break even or better. I've had 30 pins through my basement in the past 4 years. I've lost money on about 5.

Theme rules for most people.
For me it would be designer and whether I'm ready to sell a game to get a new one.

You buy NIB, you play for a year, and you used to get almost all your monies back...now you probably get more so that helps.

If having to order before seeing gameplay my priority is: Manufacturer. Theme. Designer. Software team. This led me to a Mando LE. My only Stern. Considered GB Premium NIB in 2016 and had a deposit on Stern Star Wars LE NIB in 2017, but backed out at the time. All three were dream themes for us, but gameplay decisions overrode that when gameplay was revealed. Very happy with Mando LE. Been saving since 2016 so money was low on the list by the time Mando came around. Lead times have greatly changed since 2016 though and I can see how this might lead someone to buy a NIB LE. The gameplay, at least early looks, seems to be early enough to back out of an order, even LEs, if it concerns you.

I have spent almost 25 years building/upgrading my collection to its current state and most are in excellent to collector quality. Since I have no room for new games unless I sell a family favorite I no longer look for older games (mostly because I have or have had the titles I want) and will only consider NIB games that I believe will be long term keepers.

Theme is very important to me and I’d much rather have a timeless original theme rather than a theme that might get dated quickly. And I won’t consider any music pin. At this point there are only two future titles I’d likely consider so I’m very much in the minority.

Some like buying from private sellers because they may be more dialed in than a new game and/or have desirable mods already installed. But there is nothing more exciting than unboxing and setting up a new game.

However - buying an NIB is a very personal decision and while the opinion of others may be interesting the decision is yours.

I'm almost entirely, actually lets just say entirely, theme oriented. If the theme is there I'll do NIB no questions asked... Given the market that's pretty much the only choice you have. If you want to wait to see gameplay or whatever your qualifications are, you're too late these days.

Jeff

Aerosmith, Rolling Stones, WWF and X-men called. They want a word…

Post of the year!

The LEs all sell today for more than they did NIB... even WWF.

Well, I don’t know this world anymore…

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Fact

As I really have disliked the majority of Stern games since the early 2000's and I don't like moving pins in and out every 30 days, I tend to want to play a game before buying it to see if it is worth the effort. The only game I purchased NiB without playing it before hand was R&M because I loved the theme and didn't figure I'd get to see one out in the wild in this neck of the woods. And I haven't.

So far haven't been disappointed.

It does seem though that the majority of pinside just buys everything sight unseen, they apparently have unlimited time and money.

I put in an order for a CCRSe for my first ever pin after playing it at pinball expo last Oct. I was in the market for a few other older titles but they were all selling for 6-7k. I figured I’d rather pay a bit more for something new because I was terrified I’d overlook some terrible flaw on an older machine.

Wait......WHAT ?

*does homework*

Unfortunately, I cannot find the MSRP, but there was a $1200+ jump in 2021.

I cannot imagine paying $7100 for one of those. I'd rather take a solid hit in the nuts on a Japanese game show first.

New to the hobby** so I thought that going NIB is a good way to limit the types of disasters I'd be expected to fix. Mostly things I'd have to deal with would be common issues in the owner threads and general maintenance. (and available parts)

It'd also teach me what a "GOOD" machine looks like so I'd be better prepared to go off and track down some of my graille machines later on.

** I actually got a machine 15 years ago from a defunct arcade and was unable to find the short that was blowing the fuse each time the solenoid fired. I was young and impatient and more enamored with my MAME cab at the time. I'm ready to do this "right" this time.

You can get in on a Stern NIB LE then back out if the early gameplay does not look good to you. (Someone else playing it). As I stated, I've done that once, for NIB Stern Star Wars LE.

Unless the companies happen to be named Spooky or JJP.

The comments here about having to buy NIB before seeing gameplay applies to LEs only, in my mind. NIB Premiums and Pros can be ordered after gameplay reveals and probably playing it on location if you want to. My point was you can even back out of an LE you ordered before gameplay reveal so all options of knowing some gameplay before paying in full are most likely there for buyers for any NIB pin model. Being able to actually order an LE, as you mentioned, is a different subject matter, but you could be right about that. I am discussing Stern though not sure about the other manufacturers.

The NIB game buying process has changed so much over the past couple of years it’s hard to say anymore. You used to be able to play the game on location and order from a distributor’s inventory. All the way back in like 2019 lol. I sent a text to my distributor before I even got through half of the Godzilla gameplay video release as I could tell within 20 seconds that it was gonna be a good fit for me. Theme is near the bottom of my motives to buy games as gameplay and to a lesser extent code are paramount for me. I’ve waited for games to be built and have a Fathom and Halloween on order, but it’s just so weird seeing 12-18 month wait times on Stern games. I think it’s awesome and really hope the rumored number of games they have backordered is true. No idea how the LE process works.

Must be proven to have great gameplay for me to consider buying. Whether from me playing or general consensus over time or a combo of both. I just put a deposit on a gz after playing one on location a few times plus the raves from pinheads. Yeah, I’m a bit late to the party but it will come eventually. I have too much going on to deal with buying and selling duds.

There is no logic in any of this.
When you buy the crap titles as well as the A list titles, you’ll be invited to the special club.
It also helps when you buy a couple of Namco machines and an air hockey table or two.

I got fed up with the buying/selling process of used pins, no time for peoples BS. NIB from now, I play the game in the wild first, then I order/wait for it. Gameplay gets the most points, but theme has to be there also. I’m looking to pull the trigger on GZ but the theme doesn’t do it for me, we’ll see.

The theme is what draws me in, but the gameplay is what keeps me going. I assume a lot of people fall into this category. I have no interest in soccer, but my WCS is one of my favorite games. I also love Weird Al, but I can't pull the trigger on a game unless it looks absolutely fantastic or I can play it first. Unlike everyone else on Pinside, I don't think pin prices will go up forever or that it's normal for a used pin to sell for the same or more than its NIB counterpart. So if I plunk down $6-$11k for a NIB pin sight unseen, I'm doing it believing that if I don't like it I may lose a couple grand when I go to sell it. Having said that, I've tried to stick with titles that I thought would be popular enough to resell easily.

I also find it's tough to make a buying decision based on playing in the wild. It took me a couple dozen games of Willy Wonka and Dialed In to actually like them enough to consider buying.

My collection is all pre-2003 with LOTR being my newest game. (Well I have an AFMR which is technically newer but is a remake).

Anyhow, I just put my name down for a Godzilla Premium after playing it several times at TPF. For me, gameplay is the main factor. Theme is a close second. I wasn’t super crazy about the Godzilla theme but it is executed well, is fun/funny and the game/layout is just fantastic. If I went on theme alone I’d buy a Mando but the gameplay just isn’t there for me.

I don’t buy LEs so I can wait and play the games before I decide.

Honestly I never thought I’d buy a NIB but as has been said above, pin prices have increased so much that my LOTR or AFMR is worth about what a NIB Godzilla premium goes for. It’s crazy

Used old machines are overrated to me. We are witnessing a renaissance of pinball with several fantastic new machines which to me are better than most of the old ones. Better tech, better software, better themes.

And forking over $10k to a legitimate business feels less dangerous than plunking that down cash on glass in some dude’s basement in the boonies who makes his money scalping LEs.

I rather wait a year for a NIB than deal with what seems to be a tank full of greedy sharks, aka pinball enthusiasts, who warped this hobby into $400 acrylic toppers and $35000 three year old “classics”. Nothing wrong with making $$$ but I’d rather not deal with this part of society. Just like I don’t do business with Walter White.

You seem new to the hobby. All pinball is fun. Most of the "good old" pins are classics and are hard to beat even with todays tech and toys. I can name 10 newer pins that dont even hold a candle to some of the older titles. But hey you have an opinion but your the minority.

This comment tells me you never purchased a pin from someone and never ever from a collector. I have purchased many pins and not 1 time did I ever feel like I was in danger. To get a LE you have to have a very good relationship with a distributor. No dude in a shady basement is going to get his hands on an LE. And if your talking about the occasional flipper then your also wrong. Most of these guys are super nice and only looking to make a buck. I have purchased quite a few pins from these types and most of the time its out of there garage and they are finding pins in the wild at estate sales or crazy basement finds bringing them back to life.

I have to say your new here and it shows. Go slow...

That's probably where a lot of people are at and why Stern is so backlogged.

I’m new to pinside and yes, my tone reveals that I’m having a disappointing experience with the community.

I was fairly into pinball (and bought several which I still have) back in 2000 but had other interests since until I played a new GZ by chance at a barcade earlier this year. I’m not a newbie. I donated to this forum to participate and some of the exchanges of ideas formed my opinion that I’d rather stay far away from many here in real life (and I’m sure vice versa).

To *me*, the picture of the typical enthusiast as painted by the various threads that I read the last few weeks is fairly ugly (much worse that rgp back in 2000) and I think modern pinball machines are often awesome, hence I’m only interested in NIB and that’s why I wrote my *opinion* on this topic in this thread that asked about the rationale for buying new.

I’m sure others enjoy that warped used market with all these money driven enthusiasts. But I don’t. It’s just a toy and I’d rather go to an endodontist than buy a used pin nowadays LOL.

I play a game, and if I like it enough I see if it’s in stock anywhere, then buy it. If not in stock, I check back later or move on.

Believe it or not you are in the majority. Pinside and the online community makes up a small percentage of people who like pinball. A lot of people don’t like dealing with general public and internet stranger danger.

Having seen many retail businesses in pinball, and working for one, most customers are not hobbyists but just consumers.

I am reminded of this thread…

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-the-hate-for-newbies

4. “I'm now middle aged and I hate everybody.”
That’s a good thread and I love the above observation.

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It's a big-boy toy, I want it, I buy it.

Eh, the complaining about the increase in classic pin prices is nothing new. Go back 6 years and you'll find people complaining about having to pay $4000 for an Addam's Family because their buddy bought one for $750 in the 2000s. It's all relative. Any hobby that involves old stuff that isn't being made anymore will generally increase in value. I remember when you could buy a 1967 Camaro for $1500. Not so much anymore. Add to that the boon for nostalgia over the past 10 years and you have the situation we have today.

All is not lost, there are still deals to be had out there, just have to REALLY look for them and be willing to do some restoration work.

There's never been an example of a "legitimate business" taking people's money and not delivering in the Pinball world. Never.

Well, in general, I’m not going to pay thousands of $ unless the merchandise is ready. There are two threads that I read lately (deeproot, IPB) where I feel alienated from these pinball types (fly by seat of pants “businesses” and customers) that are so hyped up as to prepay thousands of $ for a promise. It’s a combo of greed and desire that is just terrible so I stay as far away as possible.

It’s a topic where the nuance of my opinion seems fairly lost, given the responses that I get.

I personally don’t think that there is anything wrong with high $ for rare items. If someone can sell their three year old rarity, which was a commercial flop and made in very low numbers, for $35000 then good for them.

But for *me* personally, I’d rather buy a new pin that I like from a distributor. In fact, I think new pins are too cheap, given the demand.

What I personally dislike, is a warped market where a product turns into a pure money making object by so-called enthusiasts where all that counts is getting as much profit as possible. I mean, I’d be embarrassed asking $400 for a freaking piece of printed acrylic because it’s a “rare” topper LOL. But if that sells, well, that’s the weird market and I just laugh.

That I dislike this doesn’t mean that I complain about it. It just means that I won’t participate in it. And this is the reason why I buy new and not used, after I know that I like a game. Like with GZ.

I also don’t BS with this opinion. I have five games that I would *NEVER* buy for their current market value. But I also don’t sell them, though I apparently could cash out well more than $50000 for them. They mostly sit unused except for the occasional play but the last thing I want is dealing with these money crazed “collectors”. I am more of a collector than them - at least I actually collected and dont try to get as much cash as possible.

I have one rule for deciding on a NIB purchase: did Keith Elwin design it? Yes? Sold.

This weeks version turned into a pricing thread.

Simple. I don't like, nor trust people in general. On trying to find my ripleys..first idiot said it was mine. Called to confirm before I took time off to go - "oh, my buddy wanted it in trade - sorry it's gone." Then. 2 weeks later said "buddy" reaches out "heard you wanted a ripleys from a friend. I have one, it's not for me." To top it off, jackass wanted more money. Then there was the other couple in NJ. Dealt with the husband, then the wife, then the husband. Couldnt provide current pictures, didn't know "how to open it", but they assured me "their pinball guy said it's in great shape". Fuck that.

I'm also not a person to buy NIB on line pre order on a waiting list. I wait. To see what problems there are, what is on the line, etc. There's a game or two that are "older" that are on my list when money is available and I find one for sale i may jump on it. But for me..i like to avoid the hassle and just deal with cointaker. "Chris, I want x game. Let me know when you get one." Check in once in a while..when he has it - I go pick it up. The end. No hassle. No bullshit. Sure for some games i pay a few hundred too much..but for me time is money and I hate the BS.

JP is great. Bought mine from Chris & Melissa along with my Ripleys. Friendly people & don't pull any shady shit. He had 2 JP's- one was on the factory floor for reference. Other had a pinhole little ding in the bottom. Disclosed both potential concerns - told me to take the one I wanted. Ripleys ...got it home and none of the optos worked. After i inspected it there, played it, and loaded it. Drove 3 hrs home. Called Chris, tried to help trouble shoot a bit over the phone. I ate 100$ in optos replacing them and node boards which he offered to reimburse me for. Coulda told me to pound sand - I inspected it before I took it. I told him to donate it to a dog rescue instead...which he did and rounded up to boot. The Ripleys deal is what brought me back for the JP - good business to just be honest..earned him a repeat customer. 3 hrs each way but to me worth it to not deal with some dipshit. Addams will be a hunt. Probably the one used I'm gonna have to fight to get next.

Geez I’m seeing a bit of negativity here.

Not needed. Most pinheads are awesome folk who share our quirky hobby. I enjoy meeting and talking shop with them. Life isn’t about just owning but who we meet along the way.

Pinside is a great site for us all if we can accept that it’s a crowded room full of apex personality’s whom are full of opinions on how much others suck. Get past that thin veneer and then you meet the real gang here. Better folks you’ll never know.

I’m not a bad judge of character and wouldn’t of been on here so long if it wasn’t true.