(Topic ID: 191300)

NIB pricing cash vs CC


By PW79

2 years ago



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  • 72 posts
  • 35 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by brainmegaphone
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    There are 72 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 2 years ago

    I recall the good ol days before Stern's price fixing...

    Back then to get the best deal a pinhead had to call/PM a distro & wire cash.

    Now days prices are higher per Stern to create better margins for distros correct? Is it now common to pay the same price for a new game regardless of funding source because of this?

    I can pay cash but prefer the security of using a CC in case SHTF. Has anyone used a CC & received competitive pricing?

    IIRC paypal/ebay fees on a $5,700.00 game sold result in the the seller netting apx $5,100.00 so I'd think a distro collecting $5,200.00 via CC outside of ebay would be about the same.

    #2 2 years ago

    I've been told distributors no longer have the ability to accept credit card without charging more. One must pay cash for the base prices.

    #3 2 years ago

    JJ at Colorado Game Exchange takes credit cards. There's a CC fee, but he splits it with the buyer.

    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from Allibaster:

    JJ at Colorado Game Exchange takes credit cards. There's a CC fee, but he splits it with the buyer.

    yup add 3 percent, usually they split 1.5% each.

    #5 2 years ago

    When I bought a GoT Premium, there was a CC upcharge (essentially a split of the fee, which made it worth it for me to have the extra security). Then about 9 months later, I bought a GB premium right around the time the price hikes went into place. I was told there was no cc upcharge, so it made sense to use my CC.

    Not sure if my distributor makes/wants that public, so feel free to PM me... could be he waived the fee as a loyalty kind of thing, could be because of the price hikes, I'm not sure but wasn't going to question it.

    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Now days prices are higher per Stern to create better margins for distros correct? Is it now common to pay the same price for a new game regardless of funding source because of this?

    just because prices have gone up, doesn't mean that margins for distributors have. if people truly knew the time and energy put into being a distributor (shows, tech support, paperwork, etc) for the margins that are out there on new games, they would probably accuse us of being mental (sorry, listening to the harry potter books again has me using British words from time to time).

    i am currently in the process of looking into credit card acceptance as i understand it is a part of modern business. heck, i did the same exact thing when remodeling my house. put everything on the credit card (and pay it off of course) so i could get the points back. as i said, i am looking into it, but not really excited about it.

    #7 2 years ago

    Depending on your CC perks I say CC every time assuming it's still worth it with the fees.

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from KingPinGames:

    just because prices have gone up, doesn't mean that margins for distributors have. if people truly knew the time and energy put into being a distributor

    I can vouch for this.

    #9 2 years ago

    So on ebay a Star Wars Premium is $7,600

    Or...

    I can email & cold call distros for a price of $7300 + CC fees just to save a whopping $81 to $189 (depending on CC fee of 1.5% to 3.0%)

    Seems like at the moment ebay is a good NIB option with a very convenient purchasing process & 2 more forms of buyer protection.

    Shit I just remembered with the ebay bucks rewards program it may be cheaper to buy with a CC via ebay actually.

    Am I missing something?

    #10 2 years ago

    Everyone runs their business differently but with many companies an MSRP includes a companies costs (like credit card). So when I bought my last game I negotiated the price (obviously below MSRP) and then asked if I got a further discount for cash. At that point I did the math to determine whether my rewards points and the protection was more valuable than the discount offered.

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    IIRC paypal/ebay fees on a $5,700.00 game sold result in the the seller netting apx $5,100.00 so I'd think a distro collecting $5,200.00 via CC outside of ebay would be about the same.

    Not quite. If an eBay seller is paying $20 a month for an eBay store then the max fee for selling a game is $250. Paypal, if the seller accepts it, is about 2.5%.

    Where did you gather that Stern prices are higher to create more margin for distributors? Stern prices are higher because people are paying them and it makes Stern more money, period. The distributors that people on Pinside prefer to use because of their lower prices make very little on a new game and assume a lot of risk and potential headache because of the nature of the product (cost, likelihood of damage/issues, not to mention recent build quality issues...). For the record I am not a distributor (or a distributor selling buddy) but I have talked to a variety of them past and present and the margins are slim. They make the most money on lucrative trade-ins, similar to a car dealership...sorry for the comparison.

    #12 2 years ago

    I mail checks to my distributor.

    #13 2 years ago

    Using CC the buyer can get 1% back from your CC issuer. You are forfeiting this. If the distro asks for non-CC payment ask for 1% additional off the negotiated price. If it's good for the seller, it should be good for the buyer as well.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    Using CC the buyer can get 1% back from your CC issuer. You are forfeiting this. If the distro asks for non-CC payment ask for 1% additional off the negotiated price. If it's good for the seller, it should be good for the buyer as well.

    That's not how it works. There is no negotiating. The base price is what it is as directed by Stern.

    Correction, if a distributor is overcharging you there may be some wiggle room between their bogus price and the base price. I don't deal with that.

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    That's not how it works. There is no negotiating. The base price is what it is as directed by Stern.

    Star Wars LE prices are not consistent across distros, not all are quoting the mandated minimum price set by Stern. Some distros offer a cash discount because they are saving CC processing fees. You are giving up 1% cash back from your CC issuer by using cash instead. That is an acceptable negotiating angle.

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Depending on your CC perks I say CC every time assuming it's still worth it with the fees.

    1% back is pretty standard for CC cashback/rewards programs, so unless your distributor is eating the entire CC fee you're not going to come out ahead using a CC.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    1% back is pretty standard for CC cashback/rewards programs, so unless your distributor is eating the entire CC fee you're not going to come out ahead using a CC.

    Some intro deals are way better than that. However haven't looked into getting a CC in forever. Haha

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    So on ebay a Star Wars Premium is $7,600
    Or...
    I can email & cold call distros for a price of $7300 + CC fees just to save a whopping $81 to $189 (depending on CC fee of 1.5% to 3.0%)
    Seems like at the moment ebay is a good NIB option with a very convenient purchasing process & 2 more forms of buyer protection.
    Shit I just remembered with the ebay bucks rewards program it may be cheaper to buy with a CC via ebay actually.
    Am I missing something?

    Some distros add $100 when they list on eBay over what you can get thru their website.

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    That's not how it works. There is no negotiating. The base price is what it is as directed by Stern.
    Correction, if a distributor is overcharging you there may be some wiggle room between their bogus price and the base price. I don't deal with that.

    You need to talk with other distributors. There is in fact negotiating and I am still not sure where this myth was actually able to take hold.

    Stern fabricated the whole idea of "mandatory minimum" sold the distributors on the idea that they needed to push the story to also increase their profit margins and now apparantly Stern turned right back around and raised many dealers pricing (so they get the added profit).

    Distributors are allowed and DO negotiate.

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    That's not how it works. There is no negotiating. The base price is what it is as directed by Stern.
    Correction, if a distributor is overcharging you there may be some wiggle room between their bogus price and the base price. I don't deal with that.

    So what is the "base" price of a Stern SWLE?

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    You need to talk with other distributors. There is in fact negotiating and I am still not sure where this myth was actually able to take hold.
    Stern fabricated the whole idea of "mandatory minimum" sold the distributors on the idea that they needed to push the story to also increase their profit margins and now apparantly Stern turned right back around and raised many dealers pricing (so they get the added profit).
    Distributors are allowed and DO negotiate.

    Care to share the negotiated prices you are paying on NIB Sterns?

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    I've been told distributors no longer have the ability to accept credit card without charging more. One must pay cash for the base prices.

    It is illegal to charge for using a cc but not illegal to give a discount for cash

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-Willy:

    Care to share the negotiated prices you are paying on NIB Sterns?

    no

    #25 2 years ago

    I personally do not have a problem with my distributor making money. He is entitled to a profit.

    He has bills, he has employees, he has insurance, he has a mortgage to pay, he probably puts in long hours.

    I get it all the time with my company. In 2009, I would negotiate on my price. Since 2014, I don't negotiate. The price I quote is the price I quote.

    if-you-re-good-at-something-never-do-it-for-free (resized).jpg

    #26 2 years ago

    if I had to guess, I'd say based on pricing reports, that the minimum SWLE price was around $8300, maybe $8250, plus shipping in both cases. Maybe it was $8499 and the best distros took it on the chin for free shipping.

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from ReplayRyan:

    where did you gather that Stern prices are higher to create more margin for distributors?.

    Directly from Stern. I am not referring to the increasing MSRP's. I am referring to the newly implemented minimum price fixing that did not exist 1 year ago. They made it clear its to "level the playing field" for their distro model.

    I am not attacking the distro making money. I am just wondering what the caveats are to the minimum pricing.

    Big Green Egg grills have a similar business model. Dealers cannot sell below a set price but they can sweeten deals with accessories (eggsessories lol) & payment method has no impact on minimum pricing. So I wondered if the latter applied to pinball. Thats all I promise.

    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    Some distros add $100 when they list on eBay over what you can get thru their website.

    I'm already looking @ ebay prices for this comparison so for this particular case its a non issue.

    Quoted from ReplayRyan:

    Not quite. If an eBay seller is paying $20 a month for an eBay store then the max fee for selling a game is $250. Paypal, if the seller accepts it, is about 2.5%.

    Got it. So a $7600 SW Premium nets the seller $7,160 and then my only incentive to avoid CC's, paypal & ebay remains to be the $89 to $181 savings which for me is not worth the risk & time. Others will disagree since we all have a different risk tolerance & value placed upon our own time/cash.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    Star Wars LE prices are not consistent across distros, not all are quoting the mandated minimum price set by Stern. Some distros offer a cash discount because they are saving CC processing fees. You are giving up 1% cash back from your CC issuer by using cash instead. That is an acceptable negotiating angle.

    My question to you is why deal with any distributor who is marking up pins which are currently in production? There is no reason to do so, unless I suppose you "must have the LE" and also waited too long to order one. Then prepare to get bent over.

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    It is illegal to charge for using a cc

    Care to elaborate?

    #30 2 years ago

    I looked at the few SW Premium listings on ebay and only ONE clearly states at the start of the description it is not shipping until late July, the others don't even mention a preorder. One does have the estimated delivery date listed of July-August, but still does not mention preorder anywhere in the description...

    I would steer clear of those just out of principle, people who don't know any better might just plunk down the money not expecting a two month wait.

    #31 2 years ago

    It just got weirder...

    The $7600 game on ebay after my 1% CC rewards & 1% ebay rewards is $7,448 net

    But if I go to a distro its $7300 + 1.5% CC fee = $7409

    So thats even worse... its only a $38 incentive to avoid ebay... wait, I forgot to wash out 1% of the 1.5% via rewards so its $115

    If the distro adds a 3% CC fee on a non ebay sale then its actually $71 more expensive to purchase outside of ebay.

    Looks like ebay protection, CC protection, Paypal protection & the convenience of buying a NIB whilst sitting on the toilet comes with at worst case a $38 premium or $71 savings.

    Still the distro loses since $7600 -$250 ebay - $190 paypal = $7,160 right?

    I guess its better than $7300 - 3% = $7,081 tho

    Man, this is silly

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    the convenience of buying a NIB whilst sitting on the toilet

    That's the same way they came up with the theme.

    #33 2 years ago

    Don't forget to consider the added cost of sales tax when buying local. 8.125% around here.

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from DavidMP:

    Don't forget to consider the added cost of sales tax when buying local. 8.125% around here.

    Thats the 11th commandment actually

    "Thou shall not buy NIB in their own state"

    #35 2 years ago

    If Aerosmith Pro is still $5200 + 1.5% from a distro then there IS a $347 incentive to avoid ebay

    If we look @ a $5300 SW pro then its an aproximate $247 incentive

    So distro for Pro's & ebay for Premiums?

    Bros before pros yo

    #36 2 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    If Aerosmith Pro is still $5200 + 1.5% from a distro then there IS a $347 incentive to avoid ebay
    If we look @ a $5300 SW pro then its an aproximate $247 incentive
    So distro for Pro's & ebay for Premiums?
    Bros before pros yo

    guess you will have to test it for all of us and find out..... personally id rather pay a few extra bucks to a distro and know I have a actual relationship with one incase there are issues in the future instead of me being just some ebay buyer in their eyes. Curious how your ebay distro will help you out if you end up with cabinet splitting after ebays return policy is done.

    #37 2 years ago

    For me the extra charge for CC is well worth it. I'm comfortable with the distributor so not worried about any problems and don't mind paying a little surcharge since that would be costing them a good chunk of money otherwise. However, the rewards my card offers is still higher than what they charge me for using it so win-win. Plus it's convenient.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from Bendit:

    Care to elaborate?

    http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/business-surcharge-card-customers-1585.php

    There are situations where it's not legal. See the part about violating amex TOS, and certain states where it is banned. Legal some places though.

    I use CC with big companies, but not small business. Just bad for the economy. Especially locally.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from DavidMP:

    Don't forget to consider the added cost of sales tax when buying local. 8.125% around here.

    Technically you still owe the tax, even if you buy it out of state. Nobody ever follows this though. Should be paid as state use tax.

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    It is illegal to charge for using a cc

    Please cite the statute and jurisdiction. I'm unaware of any law about it.
    Merchant terms with a cc processor are not laws and are routinely ignored. Ever been to a government office to pay your fees? Every one I've been to in the past few years charges extra for credit cards.

    -1
    #41 2 years ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    My question to you is why deal with any distributor who is marking up pins which are currently in production? There is no reason to do so, unless I suppose you "must have the LE" and also waited too long to order one. Then prepare to get bent over.

    "Waiting too long" to order something "currently in production"? Please think that through again, I'm eagerly awaiting such thoughtful insight....

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    The $7600 game on ebay after my 1% CC rewards & 1% ebay rewards is $7,448 net

    You need the Citi Double Cash card. 2% back across the board. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credit-card-details/citi.action?ID=citi-double-cash-credit-card

    #43 2 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-Willy:

    guess you will have to test it for all of us and find out..... personally id rather pay a few extra bucks to a distro and know I have a actual relationship with one incase there are issues in the future instead of me being just some ebay buyer in their eyes. Curious how your ebay distro will help you out if you end up with cabinet splitting after ebays return policy is done.

    I dont think I would be the first guniea pig. The sold tab on ebay shows 17 NIB ghostbusters. Who knows how many more sold via the retailers direct website from google searches.

    Several of the very same distros here on Pinside also sell on ebay so going that route makes you both a pinsider buyer & ebay customer.

    I'm not convinced Pinside keeps distros in business... maybe we're high maintenance in their eyes?

    #44 2 years ago

    Those roads and bridges don't just get fixed magically. Buy from your local distro...if you can afford a NIB $8k toy you can afford to pay some tax on it.

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    "Waiting too long" to order something "currently in production"? Please think that through again, I'm eagerly awaiting such thoughtful insight....

    My comment makes perfect sense to everyone else, I assure you. Stick around a bit longer and you'll figure it out.

    #46 2 years ago

    Just buy the game from the NIB buyer who flips the game in under 6 months - then prices are what you negotiate

    The reason for these kinds of 'minimum prices' are to prevent a 'race to the bottom' in the channel. They are distribution models to protect the dealers from facing unrealistic pricing pressure from other dealers.

    If the manufacturer expects dealers to provide A, B, and C... dealers have a reasonable expectation that they will have enough margin and market protection (territory, controlled distribution, or other things) to do that and be successful themselves. If your channel is not healthy... you can't be either.

    These models are intended to keep a dealer who decides they can live on unrealistic margins (by cutting services, not doing what is expected of them, not building a sustainable business) from disrupting the market by offering games at prices that the channel as a whole can not sustain. Random joe starts undercutting everyone... and everyone in the channel suffers either due to lost sales or trying to keep up. Ultimately the channel is weaker, they don't offer the services that the manufacturer leans on them for... and if uncorrected, dealers fold, distribution suffers, and customers end up suffering because the manufacturer isn't offering the direct services... and the dealer network isn't there either.

    It's not so much about 'more profit' - its to ensure a healthy enough margin so that the channel partners can actually succeed and hence both parties win.

    #47 2 years ago

    California overturned that law maybe 5 years ago that did not allow businesses to charge more than the stated price for using a credit card. Credit Card laws and regulations vary from state to state, which is why they are all incorporated in Delaware.

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Some intro deals are way better than that. However haven't looked into getting a CC in forever. Haha

    2% cash back with a JP Morgan Safire card intro rate.

    After the 4th of July I plan to go back on my hunt for a JJP distro that will work with me on the DI price a bit and accept a credit card without hitting me with the fee. I contacted a couple JJP distros and they all wanted the MSRP and one wouldn't do a cc at all and the other would do it but charge me 3%.

    It's a tough market for an NIB buyer these days...prices are high and discounts and incentives (like free shaker motors or shipping) don't seem be around for either Stern or JJP.

    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    2% cash back with a JP Morgan Safire card intro rate.
    After the 4th of July I plan to go back on my hunt for a JJP distro that will work with me on the DI price a bit and accept a credit card without hitting me with the fee. I contacted a couple JJP distros and they all wanted the MSRP and one wouldn't do a cc at all and the other would do it but charge me 3%.
    It's a tough market for an NIB buyer these days...prices are high and discounts and incentives (like free shaker motors or shipping) don't seem be around for either Stern or JJP.

    Did you try Joe at PinballStar yet? He discounts his JJP pins sometimes. Not sure if DI is too new for that.

    #50 2 years ago

    I had to pay 3% more when I ordered my KISS Pro though Cointaker and used a credit card.

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