I think Stern and JJP are pushing the $$$$ boundary. They want to know what is the limit people will pay. Until they don't sell any then price increases will happen year on year.

TWD will probably cost £7000 over here in the UK! This is almost how much I paid for my BBB. Another year or two and pinballs will be £10k. That is new car money!

I thought that more pin manufacturers would mean prices would fall. Although STERN latest pins ACDC, STLE, MET are great games and have shown better build quality, the prices should stay level. 6.5K for an LE is my limit!

TWD/ Zombie pin has been in high demand for a few years now. That is almost certainly a factor in the prices.
I would probably go for a RAZA instead as it would hold its value much better with limited numbers.

Right. Because a local collector's biggest interest is keeping prices "fair".

Meh, the reason Stern is charging that much is because people are paying that much. They priced me OUT of the game this time, but someone out there I'm sure took my spot.

-Wes

I don't even see most OP's being able to afford 5K for a pro... How many years on location would it take to even start making dollar #1 on that game, even in a great spot? 15,000 plays at .75c each with a 50/50 chop would yield you $5625. And that does NOT count down time/parts/licensing/gas to empty the thing. Operating a game for 2+ years to break even, I don't think so...

Sure you could make the argument that the game still has value after it's been beat to hell for a few years but the deck is still stacked against the OP making the first $1 profit given these numbers.

I am starting wonder why an OP would even buy a new game. For $4K, you could stick a fully working $1500 EBDLE AND a $2500 RBION for 50c a play on route and they would make the same or MORE money as any new Stern.

Well in Canada it's $1 per play and $2 for 3 plays. So figure that game gets played 45 times a day in an arcade... minus slow days so average it out at 35 plays a days. That's $245 per week. That $12740 per year. So I think there is still money to be made for the OPS in the states if the price range changes in order for them to make a decent living.

For years Pinsiders have been saying "Shut up and take my money!" for TWD, so you can't complain when Stern holds it's hand out.

A slow day for a pin in an arcade in Canada is 35 plays? Here, some games would be lucky to get 10 games a day on route. 45 plays a day at a $1.00 a shot would have an operator here doing cartwheels out the door while counting his money.

Indeed.

There is a WOZ and ST at a local spot that some days get 0 plays.

QUOTED-->"Well in Canada it's $1 per play and $2 for 3 plays. So figure that game gets played 45 times a day in an arcade... minus slow days so average it out at 35 plays a days. That's $245 per week. That $12740 per year. So I think there is still money to be made for the OPS in the states if the price range changes in order for them to make a decent living."

I agree. I would quit my job if pins did that well.

I guess it's still a viable business because there are still OPs around. Mind you not many and I think Stern knows this and is trying to focus more on the home market.

Mind you I know nothing about being an OP. But if the profit margin would be lower than that then I would seriously reconsider my career as an OP. To make it viable you at least need to recover the cost of the machine in the first year of operation and have multiple locations with high yield plays...or else you would be fu*ked!

What they were really saying is take my money for 2011 prices

support your local collector? what does that mean? Collectors don't sell games, they buy everything in sight and even out of sight. Collectors are the very reason prices are so high. Nobody can get any games.

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The profit margin is much lower than that, which is why ops don't route pins much anymore. The ops that do around here either do it for the love of pinball and have a regular job to live off of or have other coin operated equipment to subsidize the pins.

Well you got 1 thing right...

I have the same impression.
We might see a reverse market with home owners buying NIB pins and OP buying $2-3k machines with no further loss in value 1-2 years later provided they are properly maintained.

I sold off most of my pins and bought a matching numbers frame off restored 1967 GTO that I will be picking up on Saturday.
Pin prices have jumped the shark and I have zero interest in any of the new titles.
After waiting for TBL a game I thought would never be made and the price was announced I tossed in the towel.

I too would rather pay no more than 5-6K for a NIB pin. TBL will probably be my last NIB I purchase unless we see a price crash in the future. At least DP looks to have thier act together and the pin looks amazing so far with all kinds of new techonlogy paired with the perect theme. In any case I bet you will be able to pick up TBL for several grand less down the road.

Yeah buy from a local flipper and get bent over even worse. I'm sure you all have seen prices lately. Shit, here in Denver there are 2 STTNG's for sale one at $4100.00 and one at $4600. Hmmm, let's see spend over $4K for a used who knows what it needs pin or slightly more for a NIB game. For me I don't have that kind of money but if I did I'd choose a NIB any day of the week and twice on Saturday cause I would know its new and would have very little issues for years to come. I said it before and I'll say it again, this hobby is dog eat dog and brutal.

+1

Being able to build a solid collection 20 years ago, before the hobby got invaded, feels good now.

Time to go pop some popcorn, sit back and watch the circus.

Absolutely..it's not wise to pay 4k or 5k for some of the B/W titles anymore..these new games have a lot to offer, yes there were some missteps like Xmen's code and Hulk's arm issues but Tron, ACDC, IM and MET have for the most part surpassed expectations.

Sterns games are getting better. I have to ask myself is it better buying NIB or getting a Addams or creature for close to the same price. I know the Bally-Williams are solid pins and just feel better built.

Tough decisions

This is what 6 of my A list pins looks like now.

GTO.JPG

More pics here.

ebay.com link: Pontiac GTO GTO400 335HP 1967 pontiac gto calif since new black plate matching numbers restored

You're not worried that the remake will de-value your investment?

2006-pontiac-gto-11_800x0w.jpg

Worth every penny...

Those must have been some awesome pins.

You might find that NIB Williams and Bally machines will cost more than NIB Stern. If you can find them.

Nice Goat trace!

Yes they were, too bad I can't find any more base games to build some more.

LOL!

No, I was offered 10K more than I paid for it when I stopped at 5 Points on the way home from picking it up.
The only thing it needs is Lo-Jack and it is getting that installed next week.

Thanks O-Din
I didn't sell those, I still have a few to play.

Yeah man! I'd take a classic GTO over a Mustang any day! Way better suspension. But I always had a thing for the 67 Shelbys.

What many of you dont consider when thinking about how an OP works is that every machine doesnt have to make money to be a good deal for them to buy. I deal with many different operators, and its all about the big picture. They know from the start that a pin is not going to bring in the money to pay for it self usually, and if it does, its not quick.

Many of my operator friends run the gambling/poker machines. So if they want to place the gambling in a location, that location often ask for some other specifics. Like, a dart board, jukebox, pool table, and sometimes a pinball machine. It may take several years to even break even on the machines, but what they make that up 10 times on the gambling machines. So in the big picture, its well worth it. Plus they get to depreciate the games and eventually write them off, and lastly, sell the game for cash. So tax/cash wise its even better.

However, if you were strictly an arcade that doesnt gamble or sell alcohol, it often is hard to sustain with the prices of the pins to make any money

I am a 67 Chevelle SS man myself.

68 Camaro pls.

Ground Hog Day thread.

I looked at a couple of those, I really like that body style.
I had a '67 GTO with the hisnhers 27 years ago but lost it in my divorce.
This one is a LOT nicer than that one was and so is my new wife.

I decided against a '67 Shelby, I found two nice ones but they just are not worth the 100K+ pricetag.

No kidding. This title is fish in a barrel.

Worth every penny (or pin) IMO.

Hows the MPG on that beast? Between that, insurance, registration, etc (unless its your daily driver), maintenance, worrying about your first rock chip or paint ding, I'd rather have pins. They dont eat as much in the long run

Sunday driver and car shows so I don't care about mileage or any of that other stuff, you gotta pay to play.
Hagerty's Insurance for 60K is right around 5 bills a year.
It came with the fuzzy dice, that is what closed the deal for me.

New improved prices are def a factor. Any higher and I'm gonna reconsider buying that loaded Lear jet and have to settle for the base model. /:-/

First world problems gents. Ain't they a badda bitch?!

Nice!

Glad to see I'm not the only one using pin money to buy toy cars.

Man does not live on pin alone.

How true. I love pinball but don't have much time to play. Son loves it and plays more than me. Wife doesn't care. Now, the convertible, everyone loves that and we're outside doing the family thing. Good stuff.

I bet there will be a big celebration when the prices drop dramatically in the future and then Armageddon when people find out they are going to be made in China, then acceptance and life will move on.

Could be the only way for prices to drop, unfortunately. Is that OK with you or others saying NIB's are too high?

you have hit the nail on the head. the only way to get costs down is going to be on labor. mexico would be the better way to go as it is much closer and you wont have over seas shipping costs. just load them on a truck and send them north.