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The fact that you are new to the hobby means you can see the state of lunacy most Stern apologists are in. IMO, you'd be crazy to cave for anything less than a new machine, significant discount, or your money refunded without a crook trying to convince a restocking fee is applicable.

I'll let you know what I'd find acceptable if I were to keep the machine in lieu of my money.... $1000 off, and the decal in question sent to my address. Anything less is theft.

And how many new in box machines have you bought? According to your pin history it looks like none.

The real question would be why I have not.

Why is that relevant to having an opinion on the matter?

Nope it's not. The question is what should the OP do, in which you have 0 advise to give seeing how you have never brought a NIB game. You have been the most outspoken person in this thread trying to burn the place down at the seems, calling one of the best distros in the biz (who has the best repuatation for taking care of his customers) a crook and yet you have never even dealt with anytype of distro yourself. You as much room giving advise in this thread as I do giving a doctor advise about a surgery.

Well...

Being somebody that's into pinball for the technology instead of the games themselves, I think I do have a valid opinion when it comes to quality. Sure, I might be outspoken, but go ahead and show me where you think I'm wrong. As for calling out "crook"....That might not be applying quite yet to who you think. Stern is the one saying the restocking fee applies, not Gex.

Calling Stern a crook for saying that? ***mods please excuse the language***:

Absofuckinglutly.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions, and we have people running around telling to OP to that they would only take $1000 off or a brand new machine. I have never seen Stern offer a cash discount on a machine for flaws (hell we have GB playfields and cabinets falling apart and no refund/cash discount there), and other then KPG who's distro bought his machine back and dealt with stern himself after the threatened lawsuits and did online petitions, is the only one ive seen of a machine being returned. The fact of the matter is he has never dealt with a distro, or NIB problems, he has no idea about the process these companies go through, all he knows is what he reads on pinside and is gathering pitchforks and an army at every turn.

I asked a question a few pages back that I would like to know the answer to before drawing anymore conclusions, other questions have been asked about the leg hole fills too that are good questions.

You have become somewhat toxic in this thread. Not giving JJ a chance to resolve anything and jumping to conclusions and basically being a Chicken Little type character blowing everything out of proportion. It's pretty nuts.

Well...

As an expert in the field, what would your dollar value be on picking up a machine, replacing the decals, correcting the cabinet faults be worth? Under a thousand? Nice!

You are exactly the problem. The Stern apologist I'm talking about, you're wearing their pants. The fact that the other people you mentioned had to threaten legal action to get Stern to step up to the plate should be your first indication that you should step back and take a honest, critical consideration of your viewpoint.

"The fact that I've never dealt with a distro or NIB problems".... You base that on what exactly? The fact that I affirm consumer law? Wow.....keep going. That hole you're digging for your position is getting ground water.

So, I guess I'm the bad guy for pointing out the facts, and saying what a lot of pinball collectors are thinking. I'm ok with that.

They never bought KPG's machine, they made the offer then nothing materialized. He received a newly populated playfield.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/changeorg-petition-gary-stern-replace-defective-playfields/page/25#post-3662683

Ah, see I didn't follow that thread closely, last I read in there he had worked out a deal to return the machine for his money back. Even more evidence that stern doesn't take back machines from anyone.

I haven't made excuses/apolgized for stern once in this thread or any other, in fact on the first page I have a post about stern trying to have their cake and eating it too and it isn't flying. What I'm saying is, people who have bought NIB know there are usually issues out of the box, weather it be a few switch adjustments down to decal problems, yada yada. I'm not saying this is right, what I'm saying is people who have been down this path, know what stern offers in the way of compensation, its well documented here in various topics. Never once has stern offered a cash discount, or to give you a brand new machine in exchange.

Adjustments? Yup, that's expected and acceptable. Damage? No.

You're not saying it's right (or not). But I am. From a technical point of view, ethical point of view, and a LEGAL point of view. If you want to suppose what I know or do, that's perfectly ok.

....the difference is I back up what I say. Might not be popular, but I'm right.

Then I guess you might just have to fly down to where the OP lives and help him take stern court....

Not at all. His protections are clear, and he needs no help from me. ...full refund as a consumer in Florida. As somebody in Cali, you should appreciate those protections.

First things first, when people (especially route operators) say this is the current state of Stern Pinball, accept your damaged NIB purchase and don't even try to remedy it, is complete BS.

Secondly, I recently bought a NIB Walking Dead Premium with a decent scratch on the lockdown bar. I promptly notified my distributor, they contacted Stern, and about 5 weeks later, mint condition lockdown bar in hand.

Lastly, if you purchase a NIB machine with damage, always try to make it right. But patience is needed, you have to let the process play out. As long as you have a reputable distributor, all should be good.

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What does that matter? I have never bought a nib machine before and never will. To risky and they cost WAY more than they are worth. I buy $600 machines and restore every screw. I have around $2000~$2500 in a machine in the end but have one I know everything about. Yes, they may have cpr playfields and new plastics but I can have 4 awesome machines for the price of one with bad clearcoat and cabinets falling apart. I dont want to sound like I am picking on stern, i get all manufacturing has issues. It's how you deal with the issues. Some of the defects surfacing recently have been seen by many people in the build process and sent on down the line.

For everyone that thinks what happened to the OP is "ok" on some level, and they would just keep the game and enjoy it despite the imperfections: I have some old, rusty, dinged up pin parts in my garage. I put them in a box and labeled them NIB though, and I'm only asking for top dollar. Can you guys buy them? It would really help me clear out some space.

Wow,I understand your disgust!Dr-Willy is also disgusted with what Stern is dishing out! I now have 3 nib pins.Out of those,my ST/PRe was perfect out of box! BUT,my GB/Pre blew no.8 node board within 1 week of playing,And,My B66LE was completely broken in 2 places,and not even playable, they sent replacement parts for ME to fix!!Now,dig this: after I got my ST/PRe,i was excited to buy my first MezelMod,BOP,for my pin! It arrived COMPLETELY put together wrong ! They also sent a replacement! SO,I'm off of nib pins until I don't hear any more horror stories!! Good luck,have fun,thats the main thing!!! Chin up!!!

Lesson learned: ALWAYS take the game out of the box and inspect top to bottom before signing off.

as other have suggested, enjoy your new pinball machine! congrats, as you have chosen wisely.

my advice to you, have stern ship you a replacement decal, hang onto it in the event you ever want to sell the machine or replace the scratched piece youself.

I do agree that you should get a 'perfect' NIB machine, but shit happens, and it is happening more frequently these days. I have had 4 NIB sterns since 2011 (preordered first tron), and there is always something to deal with out of the box.

The delivery guy/co isn't going to wait for that unless the packaging is damaged.

Umm, no I wouldn't buy them. I do buy NIB though. I opened up my Aerosmith a couple weeks ago. Clearcoat chipped after 70 plays. Took a picture. Sent it to the distributor. I guess I should have started a thread 30 seconds after sending my distributor an email. Then called the attorney general b/c I decide what is acceptable quality for pinball machines and how they should hold up with a steel ball flying around. Instead, I placed mylar over it and hit the start button. I bought the pin to play and not look at. It's not an investment. It's a pinball machine to be played and enjoyed by everyone that comes to my house. Everyone still enjoys it. Like I said before, the OP should just set it up and play it. Wait for your new decal then install it or not.

Look, I'm not saying your position is wrong. That is your prerogative. Was this thread started prematurely because JJ was already working with him? Maybe it was.

While I have never bought a NIB game for my personal line up as of yet (Houdini is going to be my first), I have bought over 15 NIB's for my store (for the showroom and for our personal use), and some for customers. Some JJP, some Stern. So I have a very good amount of experience with them, and don't want to hear from anyone that you don't see a crappy Stern NIB in my collection or history. And as Rarehero said, regardless I am entitled to an opinion, just as you are.

For collectors that have money to throw out the window, I'm sure it's not a big deal. And if you don't care that you're going to eat $500 to $1500 when you go to sell the game, good for you. But for those who saved up for possibly 6 months or a year to spend $7k on a toy they really wanted, receiving one that is damaged is beyond disappointing. And those are the people that don't necessarily buy them as an investment (flipping), but certainly want their money back or close to it if they do decide to sell later. And buyers will be nit picky....so eating $500 to $1500 because they "just played the game and accepted the issues after unboxing it" will certainly cause them financial detriment down the road. And that is something they should not have dealt with secondary to shoddy manufacturing or defects, especially right out of the Stern factory.

Let's be honest...if someone with a $8500 BM66 decides to sell a year from now and their playfield has severe dents and dimpling (my buddy's has craters already), I'm not even considering giving them anything close to the price they paid, or they would most likely want. Different issue, but still a very real and potential monetary loss / depreciation that the initial buyer did not deserve when buying something brand new.

If the pic below is you....good for you. That is not all of us on here. The OP deserved what he paid his hard earned money for, and deserves a game that he could resell without a problem if he ever decided to, without eating money due to Stern's inadequate and ignorant QC, if they have any at all. I appreciate your position, so appreciate his.

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I guarantee if you press a $50 in his hand....he'll wait...

The OP doesn't feel the same way you do.

You can play your chipped AS, while he will force Stern and his distributor to make what he deems as right.

If the steel ball flying around is what is causing these problems, it is time for manufacturers to use better materials. The pricing certainly warrants the use of higher end materials.

Time we had ourselves a hangin' Show yourself or prepare to get winged!!!

Geeeezus. Have a coke and a smile. With that being said. KILL THE BEAST....kill the beast.

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I guarantee he is going to wait until you sign off on it being delivered. Don't sign off until you open it and inspect the game.

Way to selectively quote me to make it better fit your agenda. What you're suggesting is taking used parts and lying about their condition. Stern didn't do this.

Look, I wouldn't want the covered up holes either (if they are holes and not just marks), but they will literally have ZERO impact on the game and they'll be under the legs anyway. The only issue is selling on the secondhand market where the current batch of collectors gets hung up on something so ridiculously minor like this. So yes, he should be upset and he should seek resolution based on that factor, but I really miss the days when this sort of thing would have no bearing in the used game market.

So yes, hopefully the OP gets everything made right, and I understand the frustration due to the current atmosphere in pinball collecting (pricing, insanely picky buyers, etc.), but I think this probably warrants a new decal and some sort of compensation...not so sure about a brand new machine. I would have to think that some free alternate translites, some Stern Store credit, or maybe even a reasonable partial refund should set things right.

Sorry but I call this the "sucker" approach and I wouldn't suggest anyone be a sucker. Good for you that you're willing to just take it in the pants b/c crap happens and people still enjoy it. I pay 7k for NIB, I expect NIB. I applaud folks for standing up and not being a sucker sorry.

And for the guy who mentioned pinballs used to be built to take X amount of quarters that the bottom would drop out and he would put gum on the bottom - not sure this has any relevance considering that's routed games from the 80/90s and OP is talking NIB.

Again - what this thread has proven is why Stern is not giving a ___ about quality. Why the hell should they when people are telling others to blindly accept NIB with issues. New decals is not the answer unless they send a cab with new decals on them b/c I for one wouldn't lift a finger to put those new decals on. It's not easy to do!!! You also don't need to buy a NIB to comment on this - get out of here. It's just called common sense.

Aside from everything I've said, Stern's quality control is still a sad joke, and we know that. Heck, my GBLE playfield replacement has issues that just indicate that it wasn't test played. One flipper mech was missing a lock washer, so it couldn't be tightened and from the first flip it would go out of alignment. There's no way anybody flipped on that playfield before shipping it. Slimer was broken, a gate was installed incorrectly, and a few more things.

Stern needs to be better. But until they are better, the only real way to handle things is to stop buying NIB games. I'm done buying NIB from Stern until they can prove for a long time that they're committed to quality and to giving us an acceptable product for the cost. There are some other factors as well, but this isn't the place to discuss that.

Yes, Stern needs to be better, but at this point we know what we're getting. All of us that have kept sending in money despite problems persisting share the blame for allowing it to continue.

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I have no agenda. I have an opinion. And I didn't lie about condition...I said they were old rusty, dinged up parts. True transparency. If it doesn't matter, you can just clean them up and start flipping, right?

And the remainder of my post #225 was more explanatory and appreciative of both sides of the argument.

Collectors are getting picky beyond belief...but that is your market when you are selling. You don't control it, you have to cater to it.

And I disagree. I think those extra holes and the mediocre manner in which they were "repaired" at the factory impact the structural integrity of the cabinet. With a ton of Stern cabs splitting apart already, the extra holes only increase his risk of also developing this problem. Once he is out of warranty (or just accepts the game and starts playing as is), Stern will do absolutely nothing when the front of his game cracks off and really looks bad...and then his game will be worth substantially less to some.

Well said.

I gave up on NIB almost a year ago after purchasing around 18 since 2010. For me, it is only pristine, HUO that are at least one year old until Stern gets their act together.

After reading all of these Stern posts, most would have a tough time gambling on NIB.

Bottom line is QC has gone down while pricing has gone up.

I only have to compare my SM to my TWD premium and it is very clear which feels and looks more expensive.

Lovely metal apron on SM and horrible plastic one on my TWD.

And SM is a screen printed cabinet rather than stickers.

I do think that Stern are making great games but I am out for now.

That's by design lol

Actually the plastic one on TWD is by design. TWD has the same cannon as Austin Powers, which also had a plastic apron to work with the cannon when other games of the era had metal aprons.

Most people like the higher resolution of the new decals. Before the new decals, collectors complained endlessly about the "pixelated" Stern cabinet art. Also, they didn't have replacement decals back then....try touching up a printed Stern cab if it's been damaged - it looks like crap. At least if a newer Stern's cabinet gets damaged, you can make it look brand new again with replacement decals.

Yup, that's why I'm not commenting either way, just reading. But I have bought 2 NIB games.

Do not ask for money at this juncture or even down the road. It makes you sound like you have an agenda and there is no way Stern will agree to it. Imagine the floodgates that would open up when it got around that Stern gave $500 or $1000 to fix cosmetic issues. Stern would be inundated with claims.

Keep your focus on getting either a new machine or the old one made to looks new. I am not sure if decals are the way to go, but if there are concerns about installing them, insist the distributor or experienced technician to the install (if thats a possibility). Again, I am not suggesting that decals are a viable or appropriate solution......

I didn't mean/say that. What I was saying is if your distributor is saying a defective game right out of the box requires a 25% return fee other pinsides NEED to know who that is.
That was also before genx came to the thread explaining that he slept on it and was NOT going to charge him the fee but would work to make sure he was satisfied. So... I give genx credit for saying sometimes the circumstances outweigh a return fee.

And thanks for the downvotes (chuckwurt & norcalrealtor) because I said he should tell who the distributor was.

They may not be holes but indentions from the jig that lines up the drill. Only way to tell would be to open the game and look from the inside.

If they used a piece of dowel rod to fix the holes that may make the corner stronger actually. If they used bondo or filler then it wouldn't. But the corners of the cab really should be glued and nailed. If they are only glued then the holes aren't that big of a deal because the corner will eventually come lose anyway.

Regarding your GB, Stern will ship a replacement node board and swapping them out only takes a couple minutes. If a simple part swap is too much for you to handle, emotionally or physically, you probably shouldn't own any pins. Basic maintenance and replacing parts goes with the territory. At least with new pins you get free parts replacements for 1 year.

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Your sound logic has no place in this thread.

Remember, he also has holes drilled in the wrong spot which could possibly cause the wood to split.

You really think the wood will spit there?

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