(Topic ID: 260728)

NGG2.0 New Code for your No Good Gofers - 2020


By jamescardona

4 months ago



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  • 185 posts
  • 50 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by pinballfan2000
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There are 185 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#51 4 months ago
Quoted from jamescardona:

A single ball timed mode that can be lucrative if you are good at getting the ball onto the upper playfield. Hook, slice, cart, and hole-in-one shots are huge points.

So then your golf score doesn't factor in to it? Points wise...or anyway other way-wise?

#52 4 months ago

Amazing work!
I'd still love a patched and finished home rom for the original though.

I'd like to see some brighter colors and different fonts.

#53 4 months ago

for anyone who is interested in ordering:

send me a PM and I will send you my paypal email. I didn't want to post it here because, you know, spam bots.

#54 4 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

So then your golf score doesn't factor in to it? Points wise...or anyway other way-wise?

every mode is different and the scores for each mode are independent of what is going on in other parts of the game. I have been in enough tournaments to understand that if there exists an exploit, people are only going to do that and only that. That is why people "only" shoot for gopher multiball who play the original code of NGG when playing in tournaments or playing for points. This makes the game one-dimensional and I wanted to get away from that and give players multiple things to go for and add in opportunities to create differing strategies. Hopefully I was successful.

So yeah, the 19th hole wizard mode doesn't take into account the stroke count for the first 18 holes. I like that idea, though, and wish I had come up with it. Having said that, at the end of every hole there is an over-under par bonus so you are kind of already being rewarded quite nicely for shooting good golf.

#55 4 months ago
Quoted from jamescardona:

every mode is different and the scores for each mode are independent of what is going on in other parts of the game.

Gotcha

Quoted from jamescardona:

So yeah, the 19th hole wizard mode doesn't take into account the stroke count for the first 18 holes. I like that idea, though, and wish I had come up with it. Having said that, at the end of every hole there is an over-under par bonus so you are kind of already being rewarded quite nicely for shooting good golf.

Yes the lower score in the original code = more points at the end, but it isn't enough to justify just not cashing out every hole as soon as it is available.

Thanks for answering.

#56 4 months ago
Quoted from jamescardona:

every mode is different and the scores for each mode are independent of what is going on in other parts of the game. I have been in enough tournaments to understand that if there exists an exploit, people are only going to do that and only that. That is why people "only" shoot for gopher multiball who play the original code of NGG when playing in tournaments or playing for points. This makes the game one-dimensional and I wanted to get away from that and give players multiple things to go for and add in opportunities to create differing strategies. Hopefully I was successful.
So yeah, the 19th hole wizard mode doesn't take into account the stroke count for the first 18 holes. I like that idea, though, and wish I had come up with it. Having said that, at the end of every hole there is an over-under par bonus so you are kind of already being rewarded quite nicely for shooting good golf.

I’d imagine you could do code updates ? Like maybe make the shots worth a little lore based on your score in golf?

Seems better suited for the 19th hole than the sorcerer mode .

#57 4 months ago

Side note .. appears the CPU is in intel NUC. I consider this a good thing as it should be easy to replace/fix in the future if ever needed .

#58 4 months ago
Quoted from mandelbloom:

I’d imagine you could do code updates ? Like maybe make the shots worth a little lore based on your score in golf?
Seems better suited for the 19th hole than the sorcerer mode .

code updates can be done through the utility menu just like all other modern machines. Insert a memory stick into the USB and download the update.

#59 4 months ago

Can this switch between the original version and 2.0 like DPs BOP 2.0?
Also any future plans for other games? Funhouse was talked about years ago but never came to life.

#60 4 months ago

I hope this is better than the code on Demolition Man. DM code was unplayable and a waist of my 50$.

#61 4 months ago

I wonder if you had your NGG set up with a color DMD LCD the mod could then use this screen? Making it one step easier to go between the two setups?

Also some hopefully constructive criticism... the info in the small green upper box is kinda difficult to read with the white shadowing. Maybe in person it might not be an issue but I thought I'd offer my unsolicited opinion

The bizarre squiggly main score font is ... interesting also.

#62 4 months ago
Quoted from mollyspub:

Can this switch between the original version and 2.0 like DPs BOP 2.0?
Also any future plans for other games? Funhouse was talked about years ago but never came to life.

No, this can't be "switched". You would have to replace the original hardware to get back to the original code.

#63 4 months ago
Quoted from Sammy31:

I hope this is better than the code on Demolition Man. DM code was unplayable and a waist of my 50$.

Someone ripped you off. The DM code was freeware.

#64 4 months ago
Quoted from Manic:

Also some hopefully constructive criticism... the info in the small green upper box is kinda difficult to read with the white shadowing. Maybe in person it might not be an issue but I thought I'd offer my unsolicited opinion
The bizarre squiggly main score font is ... interesting also.

The graphics and fonts do need some work performed on them in my opinion as well.

#65 4 months ago

Following.

#66 4 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

The amount of work involved in something like this is absolutely tremendous. While you may appreciate the effort, you may not grasp just HOW MUCH is involved if you haven't attempted something like it yourself. Especially when the author has stated that he was attempting to release something that would not be pounced on by a third party for infringement. In situations like you found yourself in, I would tend to take the advice of Thumper from Bambi, "if you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all." I've certainly been there in other threads.
James, I think you did an amazing job - congratulations on the release of your game!

I gotta agree with Rarehero. If this was just a guy sharing a side project for NGG then I don't think anyone would be very critical. After all yeah, this is really cool and obviously took a ton of effort. Problem is this is being sold as an upgrade, and so most aspects should be better than the original game in some way. Currently, it only really looks like the ruleset has been improved (Although I feel that's pretty subjective, but that's fine). The sound, music, animations and voice acting all leave a lot to be desired, especially the animations and voices. I'm kind of wondering why it was decided to use an LCD instead of sticking with a DMD and creating some nice dots.

Now I'm not even a NGG owner so my opinion probably doesn't mean much, but if I were to find a NGG in the wild, only to find this mod installed, I'd be a little disappointed. Of course I'd be excited to try it for the novelty and to see how it plays, but I'd miss the normal NGG stuff.

I will say the plot idea here is really creative and funny, though I am wondering, if Bud is a bear, how on Earth does he fit inside the pinball machine during the short circuit mode?

#67 4 months ago

If we all promise to keep it on the down low, can you change the theme to Caddy Shack and use movie clips and audio assets?

#68 4 months ago
Quoted from mystman12:

I gotta agree with Rarehero. If this was just a guy sharing a side project for NGG then I don't think anyone would be very critical. After all yeah, this is really cool and obviously took a ton of effort. Problem is this is being sold as an upgrade, and so most aspects should be better than the original game in some way.

Agreed. I think it's really cool that this is available, and hopefully some of the comments make it even a better product in the end. It's rare to breathe new life into an old game like NGG.

To offer some constructive advice....

The 3D models appear to be purchased off the web, they can be found pretty easily. Search for "squirrel" for the chipmunk looking thing. The bear could probably be replaced with a better purchased model.

Also, as others have suggested I think the font/graphics overall would benefit from a second pass.

As an example here is the screenshot of the balls on the green. Everything could potentially be a few font sizes bigger and more clear. I think the balls could use a quick review as well. They are all the same size even though they are at different distances on the green, they don't throw shadows, and the image of the ball is rotated weird on some of them making the light source seem off.

The cool thing about this being partly a software product is that it can be updated based on feedback, and continue to become much cooler and more refined.

All that said, congrats on releasing the game, I know it's not an easy path! Looking forward to trying this somewhere!!
pasted_image (resized).png

#69 4 months ago

Appreciate all the feedback.

"Everything can be fixed in code"
At least that's what one of my professors used to say.

Part of the reason for the Saturday live stream is to get a bunch of eyes on the game for feedback toward a goal of perfecting things.

I'm dedicated toward making ngg a great game. If I wasn't, I would not have given up so much time to it. So again, feedback is appreciated.

#70 4 months ago

I can't tell if that animal is supposed to be a dog or a giant rat?

#71 4 months ago

Still got plenty of spots for people to attend the live stream. Let me know if you are interested in coming down.

14
#72 4 months ago

Originally I wasn’t going to chime in because I understand how much work this project is and I didn’t want to really be negative, but since it’s out there now, I have to agree with the others.

You should spend some time looking at the display graphics for Dialed In and Aliens - those are the gold standard for excellent display use. High contrast, Sans serif typefaces, in large formats is your starting point.

You should also consider paying for some good models based on the playfield gophers. Lots of gig economy people can build you 3D models based on 2D art for not a lot of cash.

On the sound, I would recommend using upwork or the other professional voice work sites to get high quality dialog recorded in a proper sound booth. It can be done for less than $300 for everything as most of them are contractors who work from home.

Again, I don’t want to diminish the amazing work this entails. But frankly it lacks polish and doesn’t look professional enough to charge money for right now. As a freeware project? Sure. But you’re asking big bucks.

#73 4 months ago
Quoted from megadeth2600:

you could probably incorporate the original NGG with your update using Pinmame to drive the original NGG

Fair suggestion, but impossible. If you want to make new rules, like a lot of new stuff, and mix it with some rules/modes/special effects from the original game, you are better off building everything on a new platform. Recreating the elements from the original game as good as possible. But what you can do is nick graphics, fonts, music and even light show sequences data from the original game and reincorporate that. If you want to do that.

The other way around is doable. Run the original game code on a new platform. And then intercept command for sound, DMD, lightshow and then insert new ones, if that that is you gig. See the remakes.

#74 4 months ago
Quoted from jamescardona:

Appreciate all the feedback.
"Everything can be fixed in code"
At least that's what one of my professors used to say.
Part of the reason for the Saturday live stream is to get a bunch of eyes on the game for feedback toward a goal of perfecting things.
I'm dedicated toward making ngg a great game. If I wasn't, I would not have given up so much time to it. So again, feedback is appreciated.

Your efforts are appreciated! Can't wait to see what else you add/change.

#75 4 months ago

I was thinking "oh cool maybe now we can swap in our own music and put in a classic soundtrack of songs about golf..."
and ummm, uhhhhh https://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/5-best-and-worst-songs-about-golf

#76 4 months ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

If we all promise to keep it on the down low, can you change the theme to Caddy Shack and use movie clips and audio assets?

not when it's for sale

#77 4 months ago
Quoted from soren:

Fair suggestion, but impossible. If you want to make new rules, like a lot of new stuff, and mix it with some rules/modes/special effects from the original game, you are better off building everything on a new platform. Recreating the elements from the original game as good as possible. But what you can do is nick graphics, fonts, music and even light show sequences data from the original game and reincorporate that. If you want to do that.
The other way around is doable. Run the original game code on a new platform. And then intercept command for sound, DMD, lightshow and then insert new ones, if that that is you gig. See the remakes.

I thought he was talking about incorporating the ability to change to classic NGG ala BoP 2.0.

#78 4 months ago

Oh, right.

#79 4 months ago
Quoted from djreddog:

Someone ripped you off. The DM code was freeware.

Cardona made an alternate DM code a few years ago... A lot of work was put into it but it wasn't as good as the original and it had bugs...

#80 4 months ago
Quoted from Sammy31:

Cardona made an alternate DM code a few years ago... A lot of work was put into it but it wasn't as good as the original and it had bugs...

Correct. But he didn't sell it. It was freeware.

#81 4 months ago
Quoted from Sammy31:

Cardona made an alternate DM code a few years ago... A lot of work was put into it but it wasn't as good as the original and it had bugs...

Really hate to get off on a tangent here, but I think I was pretty upfront that the code on DM wasn't finished. I actually released it for free in hope that someone else would finish it, but I am still waiting on that. DM was really just a hobby/experiment thing and was built on the freeWPC engine. The work done by others on freeWPC was good for what it was but after the main guy who built it got hired by Heighway, he stopped development on the engine, so yeah, it still had bugs. I don't fault him for that and in fact I count myself as super-blessed that he did what he did by giving the engine away for free for people to play with like myself. I tried my best to both write the game code for DM and fix bugs in the engine as I found them, but after a while I gave up on it. It was just getting too time-consuming and with a full time job and 3 kids in the house, I couldn't continue to justify it. The source code is on github. Feel free to pick it up and play with it as you like.

I hadn't planned on continuing after the freeWPC experience until I saw the work done with both the P-ROC and P3 and with games like TNA, Oktoberfest, Houdini, Cactus Canyon Continued, etc., all being built on variations of this new excellent engine. NGG2.0 is also built on that same core and so far has proven to be extremely solid.

#82 4 months ago

So I played a bunch of games today and paid special attention to the fonts, font sizes, and readability of the text. I guess maybe the videos don't look as good as in-person because the top info bar is completely readable (for me) when playing in-person. I do agree that some of the fonts are small, particularly on the Nap Time Mode so I am going to fix that for sure.

I am planning to institute this along with all the comments and changes I receive from the playtest on Saturday that we will be live streaming.

#83 4 months ago

James, you put an amazing amount of work into this. I think people may be able to make their criticism a little less harsh.

Here is where I sit on this thing I am a huge fan of NGG it was my first game, I am also a big golfer. I sold that one and eventually picked up a HUO one which is amazing so its a keeper as they say!!! I enjoy the original game as it sits but would be nice to have something new as well.

Right now I am on the fence, I like what you have done with the rules in regards to the strokes etc...the story is also a great idea although I agree it would be nice it it matched the PF art a little better. I do think some of the points made on here are valid and I guess it really depends on how much time you have to make changes etc....

If I could play the original game as well I would take the leap and buy this right now, but as its sits if I decided I prefer the original then I have to invest more time and spent $$$ on it. So as such I will probably watch this for a little bit before I take the leap and forgo the free shipping if I must.

I look forward to keeping a close eye on this project and will have my $$$ at the ready, looking forward to the stream as well.

Folks. yes he is selling it, but no one has to buy it he is just one man! Maybe someone can help pitch in?

#84 4 months ago

By the way, the two videos previously posted were filmed in November 2019.
Someone mentioned that the colors looked washed out so I need to check into the video camera. Maybe the iso is not set right and I need to check that.
Also, I just filmed another so as you can see from the new video I changed a few of the sound effects and also added the total score to the mode screen.

#85 4 months ago
Quoted from jamescardona:

Really hate to get off on a tangent here, but I think I was pretty upfront that the code on DM wasn't finished. I actually released it for free in hope that someone else would finish it, but I am still waiting on that. DM was really just a hobby/experiment thing and was built on the freeWPC engine. The work done by others on freeWPC was good for what it was but after the main guy who built it got hired by Heighway, he stopped development on the engine, so yeah, it still had bugs. I don't fault him for that and in fact I count myself as super-blessed that he did what he did by giving the engine away for free for people to play with like myself. I tried my best to both write the game code for DM and fix bugs in the engine as I found them, but after a while I gave up on it. It was just getting too time-consuming and with a full time job and 3 kids in the house, I couldn't continue to justify it. The source code is on github. Feel free to pick it up and play with it as you like.
I hadn't planned on continuing after the freeWPC experience until I saw the work done with both the P-ROC and P3 and with games like TNA, Oktoberfest, Houdini, Cactus Canyon Continued, etc., all being built on variations of this new excellent engine. NGG2.0 is also built on that same core and so far has proven to be extremely solid.

Not sure why Reddog says I didn't pay for it...how could he possibly know what I paid for or how much...

Look maybe it was available for free (I don't download freeware so I don't know there's things) all I know is I paid something like 25 dollars for the first set of ROMs and then another 25$ for his second set.

I quote you James: " I have tested and retested and retested this code and I feel like it is solid" (From an email 6 years ago). So if you're telling me you were "upfront on the code not being finished"... well I guess we have a difference of opinion. No big deal it was a long time ago.

Anyways I don't want to turn this into one of "those" threads so all the best on the new code. It is a big undertaking. My suggestion is that when you get people to test the code for you, hopefully they actually play it for more than a game or 2.

#86 4 months ago
Quoted from cait001:

I was thinking "oh cool maybe now we can swap in our own music and put in a classic soundtrack of songs about golf..."
and ummm, uhhhhh https://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/5-best-and-worst-songs-about-golf

This is the only "golf" song I want to hear

#87 4 months ago

Just seen this - what a ton of work involved!

I would only be interested if the code does reflect the game of golf a little more.

You get a birdie, you get extra points, call out etc.

Same with eagle, bogey, double bogey and worse.

Your score needs to mean something, and have a Champions table with best ever 9 hole score and 18 hole course record.

Any chance of something like this happening?

#88 4 months ago


Quoted from jamescardona:By the way, the two videos previously posted were filmed in November 2019.
Someone mentioned that the colors looked washed out so I need to check into the video camera. Maybe the iso is not set right and I need to check that.
Also, I just filmed another so as you can see from the new video I changed a few of the sound effects and also added the total score to the mode screen.

The score font is MUCH too small and in streams it will be hard, if not impossible to see. In todays pinball we have the largest possible score displays ever yet you make the score the smallest displayed ever

-1
#89 4 months ago

Personally i would use the Caddyshack assets and not worry about it. And personally i wouldn't sell it either. How many could you possibly sell anyway? this is not a cheap thing. The Proc, computer, amps, cabling, color DMD, it will be north of $1000. I remember when i bought the Cactus canyon continued it was about $1200 plus I still had to buy the proc. The Bride of Pinball 2.0 was nearly $2000. That's a lot of cake, and most people aren't going to spend that money.

Plus Bride of Pinball 1.x was just *begging* for an update, that game needed it. CCC also in the same boat, as a lot of people didn't thing the game was ever "finished". But with No Good Gofers, most people seem to like the game in it's current format (aside from some score balance and small bugs.) So you're working an uphill battle of taking a game that is already pretty well liked. Your project would need to really push the needle *way* ahead of NGG to get any interest. And i think if it was indeed Caddyshack, that's what would push that needle. Plus you get all the neat quotes and video assets... it would solve a lot of your problems! And if you give it away (to all 5 people that would do this conversion), i'm pretty sure no one is going to bother you.

Look at it this way... Kevin K was going to make 200 predator games, and he was going to get away with it without a license. The only reason that fell apart is because someone ratted him out to Fox (and all Fox did was send a cease and desist, the outfall that followed was because of individual monies paid to KK, and his mis-management of those funds.) And that happened largely because people had paid money to him upfront and were getting worried, then Fox gets involved, the snowball got rolling and he couldn't stop it... Take the money out of the equation and basically your problems go away.

#90 4 months ago

What if the kit was sold without the software with a list of everything you need to build it yourself so you aren't required to buy the kit but it would be much easier t do so. Then the software was a free download? Anyhow I am a golfer, caddy shack fan, and NGG fan. I dont think its necessary to make this caddy shack might seem thrown together I like the original theme. It can use some work but its in the right direction IMO.

I do like the idea of callouts for birdies etc and the leaderboard that seems very doable. The rules already are setup that you hit shots to get closer to the hole an the putt out, and the less shots the better which makes more sense than the current rules. I assume a hole in one is just that, although thats a bit much on a par 5 hahaha

As I have stated I am keeping a close eye on this. I know this is a challenge but I cannot emphasize enough that if we could more easily play the original this would be a no brainer.

#91 4 months ago

The only thing that may need solving is an installation that makes it easier to switch back to the original game. He made the product already , its not going to magically be transformed into Caddyshack.

#92 4 months ago

First off, jamescardona great job, I know you have been working on this a long time and at the end of the day, as long as you are happy with it and enjoying it, that is what matters most.

I don't think James is doing this is about money. As pointed out, not like hundreds of these are going to be sold, but I think it is about sharing what he has done so others can enjoy his work. Selling kits makes its much easier for others since they don't have to go source displays computers, speakers, set up a computer to run the framework and software (which can take hours), etc. Also not doing kits would just create even more support issues for him in helping folks getting this up and running. Given his time and effort in developing this and then making the kits, he is making little to no profit on this, unless you think getting 25 cents an hour on all of his hard word is a cashing in big. He is clearly doing it for the love of the hobby.

I'm sure James knew he needed a thick skin to offer this up on pinside, so hopefully he is ignoring the negativity of some posts, but I'm sure he is listening to the well thought out feedback and suggestions. He obviously wants this to be as good as it can be, but also true to his vision for it.

While having the ability to easily switch back to the original would be great, the legal and logistical aspects of it make that a huge under taking so I can understand why he has not gone that route, at least for now.

I look forward to getting to play it sometime.

#93 4 months ago

Should be pretty easy to convert back via the pinMame + P-Roc integration only thing is how legal is this? (id say very as you already own the machine!!! and rom!!) worst case don't include the rom in the kit (if you don't want to be seen selling roms) and the user has to go and download it and drop it into a folder. Who ever installs this kit is gonna have to a little bit technically any way so dropping a rom zip into a pinMame folder aint gonna hurt.

#94 4 months ago

I truly applaud your work, this is no small feat. Will be watching this closely though wish it was more akin to CCC as NGG is a solid base but feels a bit unfinished. Will this have the option to run the original code like CCC does?

#95 4 months ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

I truly applaud your work, this is no small feat. Will be watching this closely though wish it was more akin to CCC as NGG is a solid base but feels a bit unfinished. Will this have the option to run the original code like CCC does?

No option. You would have to reinstall the original hardware to go back and play the original code.

#96 4 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

I look forward to getting to play it sometime.

Thanks rosh! We you be attending Pinfest this year? There is a good chance this game might make an appearance at that show.

#97 4 months ago

Don't forget to tune into the live stream this Saturday (2/1) at 6pm est. The first 30-45 minutes will involve us actually upgrading an existing NGG machine to the new hardware. Game play will start immediately after and we plan to play for 4-5 hours!

#98 4 months ago

There is no option currently to run the regular CC software when you install CCC unless you added it?

Quoted from Syco54645:

I truly applaud your work, this is no small feat. Will be watching this closely though wish it was more akin to CCC as NGG is a solid base but feels a bit unfinished. Will this have the option to run the original code like CCC does?

#99 4 months ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

There is no option currently to run the regular CC software when you install CCC unless you added it?

There is one but I’m pretty sure no one has it: you can boot and either run the ROM or pyprocgame with the P-ROC.

Running the ROM with the P-ROC and a PC is pretty unstable to say the least so at the end you’re right.

#100 4 months ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

There is no option currently to run the regular CC software when you install CCC unless you added it?

I had it in originally, but I was worried about how pinmame handles the pulsed coils (in-lane posts and drop targets) because it just has one setting for all of them, and I didn't want to have it end up hurting anyones hardware.

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