(Topic ID: 257547)

Help me get my No Good Gofers working- battery damage and blowing fuse 102 & 104


By shirkle

5 months ago



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  • 46 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by pinmike
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    #1 5 months ago

    I just picked up a NGG without testing it (it was a good deal from people who didn't know anything about pinball). Turning it on and blowing fuses 102 and 104 for solenoids and flashers.
    Help me get this thing going. Not sure where to start as I've never worked on a WPC before.

    #2 5 months ago

    Look for that fuse in the manual and see which coil it controls.Could be a bad transistor on the board

    #3 5 months ago

    Check diodes P601 next to the fuses with a dmm!

    #4 5 months ago

    Sorry...I just edited my original post. I listed the wrong fuse.

    #5 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    Sorry...I just edited my original post. I listed the wrong fuse.

    No problem do you have the manual for the game?

    #6 5 months ago

    I’m using the one online. I’ll check other fuses tonight. The coils associated with fuse 104 weren’t firing either.

    #7 5 months ago

    Remember pull the fuses out when testing with meter

    #8 5 months ago

    Haven’t had a chance to put a meter to it yet, but I know for sure that fuses 102 and 104 both blow upon powering on.

    I found a little acid damage as well. See picture.
    7E8D7356-5E29-4975-88EA-492B2657F38D (resized).jpeg9A811F7D-A50F-461A-9119-554A3594611A (resized).jpeg

    #9 5 months ago
    Quoted from wellarmed:

    Check diodes P601 next to the fuses with a dmm!

    Do I have to pull diodes up from the board to test them?

    #10 5 months ago

    Diodes can be checked without pulling from the board, but F102 and F104 aren't fuses accociated with the diodes. Does LED105 light up?

    #11 5 months ago

    That u5 chip looks like some corrosion as well as some of those resistors.

    #12 5 months ago
    Quoted from Ronkz650:

    Diodes can be checked without pulling from the board, but F102 and F104 aren't fuses accociated with the diodes. Does LED105 light up?

    LED 105 is lit.

    Quoted from bssbllr:

    That u5 chip looks like some corrosion as well as some of those resistors.

    I'll be replacing those and adding in NVRAM. Don't have the chip for U5 on hand, so it'll be a few days before I can pull that one.

    #13 5 months ago

    Both fuses still blew with their playfield connections removed (J113 for the solenoids 9-16 associated with fuse 102) (J109 for solenoids 25-28 associated with fuse 104).
    Does this mean there is a board issue?

    #14 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    Both fuses still blew with their playfield connections removed (J113 for the solenoids 9-16 associated with fuse 102) (J109 for solenoids 25-28 associated with fuse 104).
    Does this mean there is a board issue?

    Yes, I would say so.

    #15 5 months ago

    Transistor Q42 was bad. I replaced it and fuse 104 is all good. I can play a full game now.

    No transistors tested bad from the fuse 102 bank, so I’m not sure what’s up there.

    #16 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    Transistor Q42 was bad. I replaced it and fuse 104 is all good. I can play a full game now.
    No transistors tested bad from the fuse 102 bank, so I’m not sure what’s up there.

    Even if it plays, you need to clean up the battery-damaged traces and components COMPLETELY or they will continue to eat the board, even if it plays right now.

    #17 5 months ago

    Oh, I know. I just don’t have a SN74LS14N on hand for U5 and I don’t have a battery replacement on hand either. I’ll replace those components and neutralize the bad areas. Luckily I caught it pretty early.

    #18 5 months ago

    I noticed that although I replaced the bad transistor (Q42- for the middle pop bumper) and the fuse is no longer blowing, the middle pop bumper still doesn’t work.

    Would this likely be a bad diode associated with Q42?

    #19 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    I noticed that although I replaced the bad transistor (Q42- for the middle pop bumper) and the fuse is no longer blowing, the middle pop bumper still doesn’t work.
    Would this likely be a bad diode associated with Q42?

    Does it register in switch test?

    #20 5 months ago

    Yes, registers in test using a ball against the skirt (as opposed to my finger hitting the switch itself).

    #21 5 months ago

    Sorry i should have asked you this with the first question,does that bumper coil fire in coil test?

    #22 5 months ago

    No, it is not firing in test either.

    #23 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    No, it is not firing in test either.

    Ok check the fuse again,i see on your previous post that you replaced it but pull it out and test with meter.If the fuse tests good then test the transistor that drives that bumper coil on the driver board.Also there's a pre drive transistor

    Things to check
    1.fuse
    2.diodes on coil
    3.coil resistance
    4.main transistor on driver board
    5.pre drive transistor on driver board(It's the one with a black tab with 3 legs

    #24 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinmike:

    Ok check the fuse again,i see on your previous post that you replaced it but pull it out and test with meter.If the fuse tests good then test the transistor that drives that bumper coil on the driver board.Also there's a pre drive transistor
    Things to check
    1.fuse
    2.diodes on coil
    3.coil resistance
    4.main transistor on driver board
    5.pre drive transistor on driver board(It's the one with a black tab with 3 legs

    1. Fuse is good. Just tested it out of circuit, plus the other coils associated with it are firing.
    2. No diodes on coil- they're on the driver board for WPC 95 games....that's the diode I was asking about a couple posts ago. I have some on hand so I can try replacing it.
    3. I'l have to read up on how to test coil resistance. I've never had to do that.
    4. Replaced this a few days ago because it tested bad. Should be good now.
    5. I can't figure out which one goes to this coil. Do you know?

    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

    #25 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    3. I'l have to read up on how to test coil resistance. I've never had to do that.

    This might help:
    https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html
    http://www.pinballmedic.net/coil_chart.html

    #26 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:1. Fuse is good. Just tested it out of circuit, plus the other coils associated with it are firing.
    2. No diodes on coil- they're on the driver board for WPC 95 games....that's the diode I was asking about a couple posts ago. I have some on hand so I can try replacing it.
    3. I'l have to read up on how to test coil resistance. I've never had to do that.
    4. Replaced this a few days ago because it tested bad. Should be good now.
    5. I can't figure out which one goes to this coil. Do you know?
    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

    That's ok no need to test diode i forgot that WPC-95 has no diodes on coil,Do you have the manual?The manual will tell you which transistor on the driver board is for that pop bumper coil.

    to test coil resistance you do NOT have to remove the coil or the wires on the coil lugs.To test coil resistance-Power off game
    Set meter to ohms/lowest resistance setting.Then put the meters red and black probes on each coil's lugs, A resistance of 2 ohms or greater should be seen if not then there's something wrong

    #27 5 months ago

    Looking thought the manual I was able to located the main transistor (Q42), but not the pre drive transistor that you mentioned. I replaced Q42.

    I'll check coil resistance tomorrow- I didn't know it was that easy.

    #28 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    Looking thought the manual I was able to located the main transistor (Q42), but not the pre drive transistor that you mentioned. I replaced Q42.
    I'll check coil resistance tomorrow- I didn't know it was that easy.

    Ok when you post back your findings we will test the transistor..

    #29 5 months ago

    When testing the coil, I got a reading of right around 2 ohms, but the other two coils for the other pop bumpers were around 12 ohms, which seems closer to what the links above referenced for this coil (AE 26-1200). Does that sound like the issue?

    #30 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    When testing the coil, I got a reading of right around 2 ohms, but the other two coils for the other pop bumpers were around 12 ohms, which seems closer to what the links above referenced for this coil (AE 26-1200). Does that sound like the issue?

    No,On any coils a reading of 2ohms or higher is good

    #31 5 months ago

    locate the the transistor on the driver board,the manual will help locating it.it will have the letter Q with 2 numbers

    More info i just read your above post and you stated Q42 here's a quick test

    To test transistor quick test 95% accurate-power off game!!
    1.set meter on continuity setting
    2.place black probe to ground(Gray strap in backbox)
    3.touch the transistor tab with red probe
    4.if the meter beeps when touching red probe to the tab of transistor it means that transistor has shorted/bad/faulty

    #32 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinmike:

    locate the the transistor on the driver board,the manual will help locating it.it will have the letter Q with 2 numbers
    More info i just read your above post and you stated Q42 here's a quick test
    To test transistor quick test 95% accurate-power off game!!
    1.set meter on continuity setting
    2.place black probe to ground(Gray strap in backbox)
    3.touch the transistor tab with red probe
    4.if the meter beeps when touching red probe to the tab of transistor it means that transistor has shorted/bad/faulty

    It passed this test. I ran the meter across the legs as well (black probe on metal tab, red on each outside leg) and got 0.4-0.6 on the legs, so I assume it's good.

    I'll run the meter across the lugs of that coil again tomorrow and see how close to 2 Ohms it was. I believe it was over, but it might have been 1.7-1.9 or so. I'll doublecheck.

    #33 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    across the legs as well (black probe on metal tab, red on each outside leg) and got 0.4-0.6 on the legs, so I assume it's good.

    To measure the transistor on the legs the meter would have to be in diode setting

    #34 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinmike:

    To measure the transistor on the legs the meter would have to be in diode setting

    It was. My cheapo meter doesn't have a continuity setting, so I set it to diode when testing for continuity as well. I figured since I was poking around in there, I might as well test the transistor itself.

    #35 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    It was. My cheapo meter doesn't have a continuity setting, so I set it to diode when testing for continuity as well. I figured since I was poking around in there, I might as well test the transistor itself.

    Ok just making sure

    #36 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinmike:

    Ok just making sure

    ....always a good idea since I'm only about 50% confident in most repairs I try!

    #37 5 months ago

    That coil was steady on 1.8 ohms. I tested the four other AE26-1200 coils in the game (2 pop bumpers and 2 slings) and they all sat on 11.7 Ohms.

    #38 5 months ago

    That's low it should be 2 ohms or higher

    #39 5 months ago

    I’ll have to order one. Don’t have any of those around.
    Would it hurt to swap it with one of the other pop bumper coils just to test it?

    #40 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    I’ll have to order one. Don’t have any of those around.
    Would it hurt to swap it with one of the other pop bumper coils just to test it?

    No it shouldn't hurt anything since the pop bumper coils are the same,go ahead give a shot and take some pics if you have to so you'll know how everything goes back especially the wires that are soldered on those coils.

    #41 5 months ago

    On a side note, I replaced all of the components that were affected by the acid damage- two resistors, the74LS14N hex chip, a diode, and the batter pack (remote now). Maybe I’ll do NVRAM later.
    I lost one solder pad that was pretty badly corroded, and added a jumper in its place. Not pretty, but it works.

    It’s finally saving settings, which is good because I was getting tired of changing the language every time I turned it on.

    #42 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    It’s finally saving settings, which is good because I was getting tired of changing the language every time I turned it on.

    That's good and yes that is a pain in the ass to keep changing it over and over.

    #43 5 months ago

    Well, the new coil didn’t fix it.

    #44 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    Well, the new coil didn’t fix it.

    ok let's test the pre-drive transistor it would be on the driver board,The location would be in the manual in the same spot of the main Q42 transistor.
    the pre-drive transistor is a small black tab with 3 legs

    #45 5 months ago

    Thanks. I’ll dig into it later. I don’t have a schematic, so I’ll try to trace it back. I believe the pre-driver transistor is Q34, but I’ll check.

    #46 5 months ago
    Quoted from shirkle:

    Thanks. I’ll dig into it later. I don’t have a schematic, so I’ll try to trace it back. I believe the president-driver transistor is Q34, but I’ll check.

    Ok

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