So what is it going to be and when do you think we will see it?
Appears Elvira 3 is the October/Expo release (presumed to be BM66 type model/ premium pricing)
So what is coming and when for the next core title?
(Topic ID: 245661)
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Quoted from chad:My guess July. Don't know inside details so anyones guess.
july makes sense for timing.
any insider info on likely designer or coder?
Is Elwin up in rotation again?
Some new or returning old school 90s designer?
Quoted from chad:Hard to believe it has been 2 months since BKSOR release
2.5? correct?
Announced around April 1. First public showing was April 12/ MGC
Quoted from Guinnesstime:Aren’t we due for another Vault?
I think vaults are really more of a "get it ready and drop it when you have a dud and need some sales"
My understanding is 3 main titles each year, 1 vault, 1 boutique.
EV3 I assume is boutique but I really hope for standard PRO.
Quoted from usandthem:If it’s BM66 pricing, Stern should be ready to sell about 3 of them. Demand for another Elvira is already suspect from what I can see.
That is my guess since a KaPow game (from what I understand)
Quoted from f3honda4me:I feel like BK SoR sales aren't going well?
BKSOR appears to be selling at approx 50% of what MUN has.
and MUN seems to be at about 50% of what DP has.
I would think that if Stern is smart and ready, then they will be announcing as soon as the first run of Wonka leaves the factory?
That would be smart business. Once WONKA hits on route then I see lots of people liking it and wanting it (both for route and home), so Stern would be smart to try and stem that competition by giving people another option and trying to steal hype.
Quoted from f3honda4me:I doubt stern would hit that deadline. It looks like the Wonka runs will be leaving/shipping in time for Pintastic in a week.
well... paid in full here and no word on shipping yet.
Does not mean it wont come today... but...
Quoted from f3honda4me:I hardly doubt stern is worried about JJP. But, that doesn't mean they wouldn't try to steal some thunder. It's just good business sense.
Stern for sure worries about JJP. Why would you not worry about one of your largest competitors?
Moreso assuming they really put out 2 titles this year (and I believe it based on what I have been told).
The clear reality is that the available market for NIB purchasers has slowed and MORE options are out there for the limited # of buyers.
Stern needs another blockbuster and they have not seen one since DP (actually a slow burn) and before that Maiden (and whom really knows if Elwin can strike gold a second time under the new pressures of full production schedule; I think/hope he can).
Quoted from epthegeek:Elvira isn't Kapow is it? - it's Nordman/Freres like Whoa Nellie. Did they work with Kaminkow on the licensing?
I thought it was? no idea. Honestly I have little interest in EV3 from a theme but if it plays well and has cool mechs then I may be. However not a fan of the premium only model as thus far I have never found a premium I like more than the pro and an extra 2k in the bank
Quoted from JY64:LOL CGC is Sterns biggest competitor not JJP as for hits JJP has not had one since TH
typical for you.
such a fan bot basher that you neglect to even follow any data.
https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/dialed-in/owners
https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/the-hobbit/owners
https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/wizard-of-oz/owners
Reality is that every JJP game made has sold at likely 3x what Stern sells. The reality is that Stern make 5x the titles on average.
Assuming JJP steps up to 2 games a year then Stern has SERIOUS concern.
Toss on CGC taking market share
Spooky while boutique is taking up 500 games a year at current rate
All the various others... they all add up and if you think Stern is not concerned then you must think they are stupid as they really better be concerned with it!
Quoted from Gryszzz:As long as it's not Phish.
Agreed. Would not want stern to F that on up! JJP or bust on that one.
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:I am guessing whysnow will still be banded from the State of Michigan...
Two questions...
What is “banded”?
Wtf are you talking about?
Quoted from Guinnesstime:JJP outsells Stern? By 3x?!?!
[quoted image]
yeah, it is pretty clear that WOZ, TH, and DI have all sold about 3x more in quantity than the typical Stern game.
The reality is JJP offers about 1/5 of the total title in that same time frame.
Stern total sales are obviously way more than anyone, but for edition size of the 3 JJP titles have all sold very well.
WOZ just keeps selling and the total number is crazy at this point (I am amazed they are still producing them but it seems to be the case)
TH sold very well out of the gate
DI was slow to start but obviously picked up lots of steam.
All 3 titles have done quite well.
In comparison, Stern typically gets 1 hit title a year. Maiden, DP, etc...
The other titles average very low numbers.
Anyone paying even remote attention to what they see on route, in personal collections, and recorded on websites that track the info can see the clear and obvious trends.
Quoted from Peanuts:TMNT would be an excellent theme for a pinball by Stern, mainly if they'd retain the feeling of the Konami arcade game for the animations/graphics on the LCD.
worth note that Raw Thrills did the new turtles (it is crap geared to little kids BTW) so the licences is obviously available and there is that Sharpe bros relationship.
Quoted from jwilson:The problem with TMNT is the license would want them to use the new current designs. Which I like, but all you old men would be up in arms that it’s not classic.
like this
Quoted from Aurich:Shudder at the thought that an arcade game should be geared towards kids!
I've played it, it's basically a redo of the original Konami game, basic button mashing beat em up. I was 11 when the original came out, I'm pretty sure if you'd offered me the Raw Thrills version at the time I would have been blown away. Let kids form their own memories of games, not everything has to be repackaged for old men to relive their childhood.
Pinball is sold to old men, so there's a reason to worry about it there, I'm sure that weird Turtles reboot above would flop. But knocking an arcade game as being crap because it's geared to kids? Don't be so cranky.
I mean physically it is an 8 year old height. They could have at least put it at a std arcade height and they are trying to sell them to barcades also, so they missed the cross marketing capability IMHO
Quoted from Bingovit:I'm from 1989
Don't mix Europe with America, big differences!
Like people here don't care for a theme like WoZ or Wonka or the regular Joe hasn't even heard of Elvira...
I don’t think pinball cares much about what Europe wants based on sales.
US and Oz are all that seem to matter
Quoted from Reality_Studio:I just told that to my 13 year old niece and 10 year old nephew who are visiting and love playing my Elvira Scared Stiff pin every single day, and my niece replied "Why?". So what "factual" comment do I hit them with now?
Why? because Elvira (the character, not the pinball) is based on old school machismo vanity of tits and ass and zero substance.
It is about that fake persona of looks are all that matter to men.
Just kind of dates you if that is your thing.
My dad loved Elvira and her pasty white cleavage and sexual everything. Nothing wrong with that and I get it, but it dates you as Old and why we rarely see that type of character anymore.
Quoted from Hazoff:Well Ben I'm 44 and never even saw that film so maybe our worlds are too far apart on this one
I think this is the case for many. A large demographic of users here seems to be 30-45 year olds but we still had wide ranges of likes from the 80s and 90s.
Hell, if I were picking themes of nostalgia they would be goonies, grateful dead, dazed and confused, another skateball/bmx generic theme, TMNT, garbage pail kids, and a proper simpsons.
I am guessing that would be different than many other from the same era.
Quoted from thecashier76:My absolute, uneducated opinion...we get a short video reveal on Monday, July 8. I’m probably wrong, but hopeful.
I would say timing makes sense. TBT if I were stern I would announce this Tuesday. You want pinheads thinking about your new game while drunk over the holiday
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:Because men in their 20’s & 30’s dont like tna ? Gimme a break .
TNA is nothing like Elvira. If anything, it is the opposite. TNA is a strong woman hero character.
Quoted from Chitownpinball:I like VF, but god no would that be an awful music pin. Why not just change the songs of a current music pin to suite your liking?
I think VF could be a really good music theme. Pop in your face high energy songs and weird shit! Perfect for pinball and great call out possibilities
Quoted from frankmac:Did you need your own thread for this question?
yes, sorry
that is a 3 year old thread that is sporadically rejuvenated with conversation about the "next" game.
We are here talking specifically about the one coming out presumably this summer.
Sorry you are offended. not sure why?
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:God knows Lawlor has never allowed another person to place even a single post on one of his layouts, so he may have no mentees to promote.
this is the wrong manufacturer, but I think you missed something pretty big...
Eric M was under direct mentorship with Pat Lawlor and hence where POTC came from and there is obvious Pat L mentoring in the design if you ask me.
Pretty cool that Eric has stepped into that role and JJP/Pat helped him to this point. I have a feeling his sophomore effort is going to blow us all away even more!
so looking like
Jurassic World
Jaws
Bill and Teds
Some other washed up metal/rock band theme
Yet another comic/action character theme
Quoted from JodyG:Which one will be a Premium/LE only Kapow title is my question...since Batman is ending, and Beatles...well, Beatles may have already ended production?
Elvira3 in Oct/Expo time?
Quoted from pninja005:So when can we except an announcement; not need to know the title? Someone must have some insight news?
sometime in the next month.
Honestly with the reality that WONKA is VERY good (based on all the reviews from the majority that have played it; me included), I am really surprised that Stern is not at minimum letting some more leak to try and steal sales and thunder.
WONKA newer price point with a fully featured game that is damn fun is for sure taking dollars. Stern would be smart to get some news out ASAP/ to coincide with Jack Danger streaming Wonka.
With an apparent 1000+ Wonkas already sold, great fan fare of those playing it, the fact that JJP apparently has already delivered over 200 games in a short time, the next batches appear just around the corner...
I think you would be crazy to think that Stern is not concerned with ALL of their competitors.
We are looking at a 2000-2500 game production year from JJP in 2019.
Spooky is on track to make 500 games per year every year going forward
CGC is making at least 1500 games per year and will do so for the likely future.
that is at least 28 MILLION in sales for 2019.
I am pretty sure Stern is smart enough to care about that kind of money.
Hell, even if those estimates are cut in half... Stern still should care.
These other companies are taking more and more market share every year. When the market softens, they are still going to take those numbers and are much more agile due to size.
I really dont understand why anyone would ever think they are not concerned.
Quoted from Hazoff:I would accept it and be happy for JJP if I thought it was true but its crap
ok, if it is crap... then at least lay out your proposed ideas for the numbers?
How many games is Stern selling in 2018? 2019?
Average price and total gross?
Same for JJP.
I am genuinely curious what you think sales are and at what % of market does JJP become a player in pinball.
Quoted from Hazoff:I don't understand why anyone would care, who cares if JJP steals Sterns thunder or vice versa? Why is it so important to certain folk that Stern be aware of JJP sales, please explain?
I dont care on a personal level 1 bit. Pinball is a hobby to talk about.
As an outsider on a business level, it seems really apparent to me that Stern is obviously paying attention to JJP/Spooky/CGC and correctly so as they are taking potential $ out of the pinball buyer market.
Quoted from Hazoff:and to come on this site to aggravate people
I did not realize that is all you were doing.
Thought we were having an actual discussion (I think it can be fun to discuss these sort of business things in the hobby). Ill stop wasting my time replying to you.
So...
back on topic...
When will the announcement come?
This/2nd week of July
3rd week?
4th week?
5th week/ 1st of Aug?
Quoted from kermit24:Yeti said the art he posted wasn't for a pinball machine.
Yeah, but it could be for the promotions flyer for a pinball machine.
Quoted from ufotofu:Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by "cornerstone game"? That's a new term to me.
it is a term Stern uses to mean 1 of the 3 games each year they make that will have 3 tier (pro, prem, le).
They intend those to sell well and be a foundation cornerstone to their sales.
Quoted from mnpinball:Star Wars the Pin
you have to be joking??? please tell me you are joking
Quoted from mjruser:It's a Frank Zappa pin for sure!
Backglass based on 'Dinah-Moe Humm'
I poked 'n stroked till my wrist got numb
But I still didn't hear no Dinah-Moe Humm,[quoted image]
finally a music pin that would actually be good!!!
sadly the home edition crap makes sense why this secret was kept under tight lips... nobody gives a flying fuck about it...
oh well, more crap games for them to sell to homeowners I suppose.
Once you have raised the cost of a stripped back Pro to 5600 and tried selling 8k Beatles, you have to give the distributors something to sell to the bottom end and they can market 4k as a bargain compared to that "commercial model with a MSRP of 6500"
I sure hope there is some surprise in store for us collectors, but my excitement sure is nill currently.
Quoted from Yoko2una:And let's just quickly check in and see how that worked out for them...
[quoted image]
LOL
WOW! where are they advertising that price?
Quoted from Borygard:As much as I personally despise a "home" version pinball machine, this will be great for the pinball hobby.
Star Wars is the biggest licence in the world, people not into pinball (read-most of the world) will buy because of that.
I see this as a great thing to help bring the masses to pinball.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com
It is not often I disagree with you, but if people did not buy the Pro model for 4800 when it came out, then I dont think they are spending 4000 on an even further stripped home model.
I dont think these are good for much in the hobby. I have seen exactly 1 home spidey and the guy that bought it dug it but surely felt a little duped once he got into pinball and realized he paid a bunch for essentially a glorified toy over the full model for another 1500.
Quoted from jellikit:If he wants to sell the Spider-Man Home Edition machine, drop me a line. Thanks.
I will likely see him soon and will tell him to reach out.
Quoted from zaphX:Well, this was 2017 and literally the week after the game came out. Also my first pin.
I hope you NEVER used that distro again!
Quoted from TomT:If these are sold through retail vs distributors how will Stern handle parts/repair when things go wrong?
lol
they dont
Does the glass even come off on them?
Quoted from zaphX:At the time, everyone was selling them for the same price - they got it to me, it worked, what's the issue?
That said, I didn't buy from them again because my next two purchases were JJPs and they didn't sell those.
sorry, but you way overpaid
They took advantage of you being a noob at the time and not knowing better.
Quoted from aingide:Maybe, but a $3800 price is aligned with a good home ping pong, shuffleboard or air hockey table. Seems like getting the retail under $4k is the sweet spot for some categories of home amusement machines.
sub 4k is the sweet spot BUT it needs to be a full featured Pro model with coin door to bring in interest.
Quoted from BillPinball:Who is selling Pros at $4800?
WAS
SW was a while ago. 4800 was pretty standard then
Quoted from fosaisu:he has a distributor (don't bother asking who) that consistently sells him NIB Sterns for hundreds less than anyone else pays.
nah, other get the same prices I do. They just dont mention it here for fear of no longer getting those prices.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I'm really happy the industry is to a comfortable place where experimentation like this is possible.
I also think Stern knows exactly what is up trying to have a lower entry point into pinball ownership. Don't forget 90s games are like 3 grand or more now.
and full featured, coded games, with parts availability, and they play like an actual pinball machine instead of a fischer price toy in a full box.
Compare some of those great 90s games for 2500-3500 to this 2019 turd in a box for 4k... Every person with even an iota of sense will pick the classic for less.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:That's very much a rehash of the Arcade1up vs real cabinets argument.
I do believe there are enough people who would rather purchase a new star wars home game than deal with a 30 year old game. I'm guessing Stern does too. Like I think Aurich mentioned, they are even improving the design of the home pin with every iteration.
It's still not the game for me, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible idea.
arcade game = not a mechanical toy = not a good comparison.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:But for only $4000 more they could get a Wonka!!!!!
JW is right of course. Sure, YOU could buy a ratty system 11 and a Williams Blackout for $4k, both of which will require constant maintanence and be general pain in the ass to acquire and move...but that's not for everybody.
Also, neither, nor both, of those games are Star Wars.
the REAL comparison that makes sense and is most direct...
SW home edition = 4000
HUO SW pros = sitting unsold for 4700
Quoted from ktownhero:Where are these magic SW Pros sitting unsold? They seem to sell for around 5k almost instantly when they show up.
took literally 5 seconds to find 1
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/81874
others that were sold for 4700 in the past month
here is one with shaker for 4700
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-star-wars-pro-w-shaker#post-4975290
4800 loaded. pretty sure it sold for 4700 also
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-or-trade-star-wars-pro-2
4700 is a pretty well established asking for a nice low play Swpro currently
Quoted from Matesamo:Right, doesn't this completely contradict your claim that "HUO SW pros = sitting unsold for 4700" when two of your examples sold at the price and the one that is still available is not HUO as it is on location? Or am I missing something?
I am not going to go look for more to prove the point. Took 3 minutes to show you that they are easy for find at that price.
used SWpro is a 4700 dollar game.
Go buy a damn home edition for 4k.
Quoted from Matesamo:All right dude, relax a bit. Breath. There you go. Exhale.
I'm just trying to figure out how showing multiple Star Wars Pro's selling for $4700 supports your claim that HUO Star Wars Pros are sitting unsold for $4700.
completely relaxed 
Does not change that you are incapable of understanding that those now sold examples took more than a day to sell and there are other HUO examples at the same price sitting available right now.
Anyone selling a CBW for almost 2k, can afford to go buy the full PRO version of SW for 4700. No need for you to fret so much over the $700
Quoted from jwilson:How is a NORMAL PERSON supposed to know a Star Wars
Quoted from jwilson:Sure, cute. But how do they know to put those search terms together? And what would prompt them to search for pinball machines in the first place?
Literally, almost every single non-pinhead I've had over was completely and totally surprised that you are "allowed" to own pinball machines as a private citizen.
pretty much every single pinhead I know started their journey into pinball with a hunt to own an actual specific pinball machine. No matter what era is was, they searched the resources and found a game. The thrifty nickel paper, craigslist, ebay, or google. The medium changes but by and larger EVERY person I have ever met bought a pinball because they were seeking it out. Often a specific game/ theme.
The one and only time frame I know of people 'stumbling' into a pin is when the actual cheapy home editions were made in the 80s. Granted those were 25-30% the cost of a commercial version. I had a great aunt with one of those. She splurged on it for $500 bucks, but she even knew that commercial games were 2000 back then.
This home edition junk is a great idea in theory, but the reality is that the price point being 70% of what it costs to get a real pinball machine costs, is the fail.
EVERYONE thinking of buying a big ass game, has the internet in their pocket and will do a little google search to get some level of education before making a 4k purchase for a toy.
Quoted from PoMC:Holy crap, over 1000 posts about this release? Yet, I don't care at all one way or the other. I guess I feel left out having no opinion on something I'm not even interested in buying.
yeah, none of us are.
We were hoping for a new game and not some home edition junk rehash.
We are likely still holding out a sliver of hope that there will be a surprise...
what else new in pinball is there to talk about this week.
Quoted from brucipher:Nice that Stern Pinball is now trolling their customers.
wlecome to the Sharpe r era of pinball marketing. lol
Quoted from thecashier76:I have a bad feeling that this might make used pro’s more expensive. Especially Star Wars pro’s. Why would someone sell their pro for $4500-$4800 when the new PIN is $4500?
umm... because they are not selling for 4800... so if they want to sell it, then they have to drop the price to what market dictates.
mods > topic is marked resolved
feel free to lock it up.
and I can start one for the next summer? release
Quoted from ktownhero:Thanks for giving me examples of SOLD games in an effort to prove there are UNSOLD games. What are you guys smoking?
sorry your SWpro aint worth more that 4700...
good luck with your sale...
Quoted from ktownhero:I had it up for a few days and got two offers one for 5000 and one for 5200 and then I took it down because I love the game.
lol
Quoted from CrazyLevi:There’s not a single manufacturer in the world with a lower price, so I guess you may want to find a new hobby.
But almost all provide a better value
Quoted from ausretrogamer:Wondering how many pinsiders are (secretly) seriously thinking about buying this game?
Of course those peeps wouldn’t dare admit it in this thread.
everyone that enjoys tossing away 1500 at minimum just for the fun of it?
Quoted from Goronic:I think stern went about the release all wrong and invited this kind of response.
What they should have done was simply say...We are going to be unveiling our latest pinball for our home pin line of products. It is Star Wars and will be ready to play at this weeks Comic-con. For the pinball enthusiast and professional players we will be announcing our latest cornerstone pinball machine the following week.
This would probably played out a lot better, and would have been received with much less criticism.
It seems so simple to actually have respect for your customer base, but that no longer seems to be the MO of stern marketing and PR.
I kind of joked about it, but the reality is they have a few guys in those roles with enormous egos. They talk to customers with the same egos they carry in real life. It is not a good PR perception when you customers are largely the nerdy outcasts already. They likely view it as an innocent "punking" when they are the ones that actually come off just looking silly over the whole thing.
We have seen time and time again that us pinheads like to have a foundation of good relationships and even be friendly with the people designing and making the machines. There is a good reason people give more back to companies like JJP and Spooky when they have an issue. Not only do they usually get it fixed, they treat the customers well/ like humans along with it.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I think Keith just has a boner for "two weeks" cause Total Recall is awesome. I say "two weeks" about every 2 days along with whatever random Robocop quote comes into my mind.
I always thought it was him trolling the Heighway quote?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I can't imagine he'd give two shits about that.
well.
Total Recall would be a great pin!
Quoted from BeeGeeMtl:All Stern had to do was to say (before announcement) that this was NOT gonna be a "cornerstone game announcement" and I think they would have avoided a LOT of this hate. I think many people feel "fooled" because Stern was making this sound like it was a cornerstone game announcement. A couple of words could have avoided all this negativity, Stern.
Their actions were very intentional.
It is how they roll now.
Quoted from Honch:I highly doubt Stern was trying to take personal shots at guys that are most likely to buy their cornerstone games.
They have a new low end (but still expensive) product and they tried to pump it up a little. I don't think it's going to work either, but no harm done.
I am pretty sure that Stern is very comfortable with the troll roll.
This is kind of that new era of marketing style where it is cool to F with your customer base. Problem is that Stern comes off kind of prickish rather than "ha ha we got you" since they dont really engage with customers outside of these things.
Also, it really seems like they think any press is good press, when reality is the opposite in todays world.
The hard reality is that Stern trolls their customer base, continues to cheapen products, has recently gone radio silent on the many QC issues they are having (including no longer replacing parts that are defective within warranty? I hope this gets fixed ASAP), and steadily charges more for less.
It seems like everytime they make strides in one spot (hey look... sweet code update for a 2 year old game) they F up on the flip side (shit marketing PR and more and more defective pfs going out).
Quoted from jwilson:Hilton, I love ya buddy, but you really need to dial it back a bit on the over-the-top reactions to every little thing. Pinball is fun and all but your blood pressure will thank you if you relax more.
I can assure you, I lose zero sleep over this and my resting HR is still 54 BPM.
This is ALL just fun hobby stuff.
Life has other things worth worrying about. Pinball is a diversion from reality for me.
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