(Topic ID: 166936)

Next Remake ? Has to be Cactus Canyon

By whthrs166

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by ShinyBall
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-3
#198 7 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

I think the remake availability of MMr has brought prices back to reality on regular MM's as well...to me a good thing and possibly a sign that these crazy inflated prices on games will come back to more reasonable prices.

Original superb and collector quality MMs do not cost $8000 (or even the "new" standard of $9500), and never will at this point in this hobby.
The boat sailed just like the attempts to obtain the game for under $4k in hopeful closeout status, which never occurred unlike games such as CV.
Pre-fabricated belief by hopefuls just like operators and owners believing WMS was going to do an additional run of the game in 1998.

Let the water break, and watch the tidal wave of people who drop $9500 on BBBr (#4) (Remember the game was actually made 3X if you understand the full history), and prepare to wait 3+ years.

No offense to CGC or PPS, but I know the next pinball market stall (not "bubble" as this is not the correct term here) will happen before the dust settles on this title, and many will be out if the hobby again, most cancelling their orders for refunds before they receive their games. Something that already has been considered.

Just another ciche of "Fistful of Dynamite" (Duck You Sucker!).

-1
#211 7 years ago

Anyone that is familiar with this industry understands that the gauges of interest regarding titles is the determination of announcement. This can be tricky, and even risky.

The next PPS announcement is coming shortly, although I do not know how Rick may be "flipping the order of which title is chosen" based on what parts considerations are prepared for manufacturing.

It is still going to take over 2 years before a buyer will see a game for their deposit, and at that point most will be long gone.

This remains a factor as the closeout mindset will not work for PPS/CGC, or they will never make another game again. Buyers won't tolerate that type of shenanigan, and the manufacturer loses money in a tempermental market.

P.S. There is no real market for CC.

1 week later
#231 7 years ago

People need to prepare to hold onto their hat and wallet when they announce the next PPS machine title for production at Expo. Something in the kitchen will be burning when enthusiasts see the MSRP. It will still work for now, due to the number of new owners and "gotta havers".

People fail to realize MM was simply a revisioning of AFM. Same features, same designers, same code design with a feature different features like strobe multiball. MM actually piggybacked and was already started in design while AFM was under production.

I like the game but saying AFM is "better" than MM is a bit of a stretch.

#242 7 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

I can't imagine they will sway from the $7995 price tag. why would they?
This time maybe they have some parts already from the first one, but other then that I would assume the same amount of work if not more went into remaking the second one. Just always assumed 8k to 10k was the price for a new pin nowadays. Unless its a pro.. but they aren't the same company stern is, no one is... yet.

Pinball manufacturers love the saying "ignorance is bliss".

History is quite remarkable, especially in the last 10-15 years. I provided 2016 cost production data to several people recently, and were shocked, even outright angry, at the profit percentages now. They continue to be on the rise.

Reality can be a harsh teacher, especially to the non-informed.
This does not mean anyone is stupid, just the volume of new buyers outweighs the old for both new and used machines in the home market.

#248 7 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

People are lining up to pay more than that for old licensed themes in new machines, so why not?
The makers need to grab as much of this free spending cash now before the well dries up.

I am starting to feel really rich these days regarding pinball.
Things are really add up between permanent collection games, non-restored games, projects, and parts.
Dealers keep right on stockpiling right now.

-1
#277 7 years ago

For consideration in a home market (not operators).

No pinball machines are commodities in their pure sense, although they can be traded and are valuable.
There is no aspect of raw materials in this definition either.
Let me explain and provide some very important points.

All pinball machines are luxuries, not life necessities, in a non-commercial home environment.
That is what allows pinball manufacturers make profit, charge whatever they want, and cause the market to remain unstable and unpredictable. This is also why they are the "first thing to go" when economies shift downward.
This is the fundamental owners must learn and accept, as this will not change.
Expectations of what people believe is correct in application opposite against any other industry or hobby will cause poor assessments.

If a pinball machine was a necessity, there would be regulation regarding cost and quality of this industry, which to this point in the products manufacturing construction history has never fully existed.
Nobody is going to care if you picket Stern in front of their factory for better games, pricing, or preferred titles.

I spoke about the challenge of choosing "what title is best for remake next" a few posts ago.
It is a gambling not just in MRSP, but also in title.
Choose the wrong license, and a manufacturer is prone to lose millions of dollars.
Enthusiasts do not always seem to understand this fact, but there is a heavy impact on the entire market and industry when these events occur, including accelerating a market stall either out of distrust, disdain of cost, or simply lack of interest.
This is on top of a manufacturer declaring bankruptcy due to failure.
All pinball manufacturers right now other than Stern are only ONE game from failure at any time.
ONE GAME.
Stern has the ability to "recycle" titles to keep them afloat when times are tough (a tactic they have used repeatedly), but within a few years of a market cycle stall, they are in trouble as well, just like they were in 2007, only 3 years after release of LOTR. SM was the saving grace.

The more you understand about the market and history, the easier it is to predict where the future lies.
Relevancy?
PPS has to consider all the challenges I just mentioned before announcing ANYTHING.
This industry is not built on wishes, but can be built on dreams with a LOT of work.

1 month later
#324 7 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Its my understanding they will keep making the games until the demand has run out.

Absolutely correct.
MMr will be produced until the games stop selling, which has already begun.

Once the orders completely stop, and excess inventory squats with distributors for over 6 months, the run is at an end (for now).

The orders are already bearing the end, as Rick ramps up for AFMr.
AFMr sales unfortunately are going to "flutter" under the weight of new titles. Few are going to want to wait 2+ years for a remake.
The current market might not even last that long, and make people feel really foolish.

Rick could start up again (MM license rights are maintained) if there was interest, but not in the near future.
Interest is very small.
Parts focus are what we need, not more machines.

For potential buyers, I would not rush to buy a MMr NIB game now. They are already readily available in more than sufficient quantities from home users in the secondary market (every single version), and ultimately the prices will continue to decrease, and the originals continue to return to their standard values.

The "age of remakes" has always been a short era of time.

I explained why in the MMr differences thread. Owners should be informed of the differences between an original, reproduction, or remake as they are all different concepts.

Best of fortune to PPS and CGC, but I just want more parts so we do not run into 2006 problems again.

#352 7 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

I see some Big problems here.

A truly unfortunate situation regarding mudslinging based on the current state of market inflation in attempt for added profit.

Sometimes purely for comment baiting under false contraversy.

More manufacturers = lower prices due to competition including used games that take the weight of those titles. There is a subsidiary price increase effect of "tag along" piggybacking on older titles, but in the long run the industry and market is healthier.

The only true reality is if advertising promises matches production, there is less contraversy. PPS made a good call to not state a formal announcement at Expo.
Perhaps manufacturers will learn from their past as the market continues to "flutter".

3 months later
#395 7 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

What I don't understand is the push by some to get Rick to spill the beans when MMr is still selling.

Drama to satiate people's boredom from their own personal lives.

PPS formal release statement will be provided when:

1) The game is ready to be reproduced including all parts in hand, and construction contract in place
2) The market supports the release for maximum profitability, based on the "ebb and flow" of releases
3) Advertisement program is prepared

Pinball machines rely on hype, short timelines, and immediate production to maximize profit. When the hype dies, the title begins to fade from the NIB shiny toy box eyes of new buyers.

Anything less is just leads to reduced viability of sales.
If an enthusiast want examples of poor preparation and mistakes, there are plenty of game titles to compare as an example in the past five years up to the present.

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