gotta love that so many are still biting hook line and sinker on the idea that every B/W game will eventually be remade. At the current rate we are looking at 3 titles per decade.

I know I will just go out and buy the better original for any game I want. No reason to wait and wait and wait for a potential remake.

How many years ago was it that MMr was announced and some are still waiting on there remake?

I've seen them go recently for as little as $7500 in very good shape, so deals are out there if you really want one. Just have to do the legwork to find them.

PPS#2&3? My vote is for KingpinR and CCCR. And by the way, CGC, if you're out there, how about including a colorized display in all models, right from the get-go, instead of nickel and diming us to death with priced features and add-ons?

to be fair you should ask from start of actual production...everybody is aware of the delays prior to that. You'd hope game#2 wouldn't be announced until it was ready to roll off the line and I think they've stated that pre-orders aren't happening on #2. Potentially very different experience for this one.

Are there any #'s on MMr LE's still to be delivered?

that would be good if:
1. no more preorder model
2. no more lies about colorization and associated nickel/diming
3. no more issues with pfs
4. more reasonable produciton timeline
5. more reaosnable and competitive price. (I personally think it has to be or it will be a flop; trying to sell AFMr at anything over 6 is a dead start considering I have seen 2 reaonsbale examples for under 7k in the past month and players under 6k for originals.)

Still would like to see the BS about all B/W games potentially in cue for remake to just stop. It is pretty obvious that is the used car sales pitch to try and get people to not spend on other games and the pending fear that more companies seem to have since so many great new titles are just months away/ expo in Oct.

Next better be afm. CCC is a boring pin.

CC is a boring pin, CCC is not.

I about fell asleep on it, super safe shots. No offense, i was having 10 min ball times, pretty average player.

To each his own

I would love to see Pat surprise everyone and make JJP #3 a modern version of what he wanted to do with Wizard Blocks (Pin3000). He was the one that came up with the idea and the prototype for Pin2K and it's a travesty he never saw his dream come into fruition. JJP has the video engineers and programming talent to pull it off. That big HD display on the Hobbit is kind of wasted on the player as it's tough to enjoy all the great visuals when you are focused on the playfield. Use that beautiful 27" screen to create some virtual 3d targets along with some reflective glass and use it to its full potential!

There was a lot that went into getting the overall platform ready, now that the platform is done each remake should take less development time.

People change their minds but it sure seems to me like Pat is totally finished with that one and has no inclination to revisit it. Not to mention re-engineering JJP's platform to do Pin2K would probably be a logistical nightmare and run them out of business.

I would rather have wizard blocks in this state over SWE1

Speaking of, do you have any WB updates for us, Compy?

Yeah, but that's not saying much. I'd rather have the free space in case I found a good game over owning SWE1.

Extended code would help CC from being such a turd. I wonder if it will be included with the remake or will it be offered further down the road and at a discounted price for LE owners.

Reading the quote from Pat Lawler on the cost of someone producing another P2K-style pin, it is highly unlikely to happen. That means the only two P2K games to ever see production are RFM (which is a really fine game) and SW:E1 (not a great game but certainly not as bad as some people make it out to be). I chose to own both of the only P2K games ever produced. And when I do play my SW:E1 it is still pinball and still fun.

SWE1 is one of the few pins I've walked away from without finishing my balls, though to be fair it was set to 5 ball, and I just couldn't take anymore. Only other one I can think of where I did that was Varkon.

... but Aurich... Plunge the ball and use your flippers!

Terrible game, to be sure. I had a similar problem with 24. Couldn't lose the ball and the game went on so long, I just let the last two balls drain just to END the suffering.

Just curious, why would you need popdiuk when louis was the one who programmed TOTAN?

Wizard Blocks does look really cool from the small snippets of video i've seen of it. The interaction between the pinball & the video looked excellent... but they'd have to spend a lot of time developing a new platform to avoid any legal issues from whoever owns Williams/Bally now? it would be cool if they could do a full sized game unit, w/ a small lower playfield area (like pin2000) and use a darkened upper unused playfield area for better video projection/animation etc. maybe some hardware to move the ball around in the animation as well. I wish williams/bally kept going a few more years just to see some of the crazy things they'd do w/ better technology available :\

the designer has the concept and the ideas of extensions, etc ...

any patents involved would likely be expiring shortly. They have a 20 year lifespan (from filing date). Patents for this were likely filed before the machines came out, so, can't be more than a couple of years left. However, copyrights have a much, much longer lifespan.

So your saying no one else could take on TOTAN 2.0?? I personally would not want Popdiuk involved anyway. I would think most people, including myself would want some fresh ideas for rules and dots to make TOTAN the best it can be, and i know we have some pretty talanted people here who would probably love to take this on.

given that there is currently no activity on totan in any shape or form, it's not really even a discussion right now. If someone wants to change that they know how to get ahold of me ...

I still don't understand how a MB remake is even possible given the licensing issues of those proprietary characters that aren't owned by B/W. Even if they get B/W sign off, wouldn't they have to go around to the owners of Frankenstien, Dracula, etc, to get their sign off? Sounds like a licensing nightmare.

I'm spamming your email now.

Those classic monsters are in the public domain and fair use for the most part.

This is not correct. The Universal Studios versions are in no way public domain. You could do your own versions, but it's like Alice in Wonderland. You can make your own take, but you can't use the Disney likenesses. Or Wizard of OZ, you could do your own take, but you couldn't use the MGM characters.

There are no "owners" it's simply one, Universal. I'm sure they're happy to take Rick's money, or Chicago Gaming's money or however it works. Pretty sure Rick has stated before that he has the license already for repro part purposes. Doesn't sound like a nightmare to me, just business.

The only nightmare is that these remakes, AFMr and MBr, are not in my home yet!!!

Forgive my ignorance if I am missing something, as I do not follow PPS super closely as a company, but who says game #2, 3, ect even have to be remakes? Whats stopping them from creating their own original game? If you ask me, thats fairly smart. Start out with a concept thats been proven, and get your feet wet in the pinball manufacturing business. This leaves you in better shape to do more of your own thing down the line.

Simple--people want them.

Making a game completely from scratch--that's hard. There's a long and difficult design cycle that needs to happen in order to bring a game from a sketch on a napkin all the way to a real game that you can buy.

It's easier to remake games that already have proven to be a success and have a built-in audience ready to buy it.

As totan is probably the only remake i would be seriously interested in of all those discussed here, this makes me sad

That is an excellent point.

What some folks don't understand is that Rick is not driving/funding these various projects, other companies are. PPS is 'licensing' and supporting them, as the current holder of the licenses (and working through whatever issues need to be done relative to WMS and I"m guessing helping to get the parts produced).

So, he is saying no one has come forward who wants to do/fund TOTAN 2.0, I guess Jpop did, so until someone else wants to do it (make it happen, fund it, etc.), it is not happening. I'm guessing there was interest from both Jpop and Kevin (FH2.0) after the success of BOP2.0. I know FAST was involved as well in some of this 2.0 stuff as they were invoked in the original announcement.

MMr and other remakes, are being made by CGC (and maybe others?), not PPS.

People want new games as well though. Although I do agree with your reasoning for the most part. They fill a nice niche in the pinball marketplace. However, most of the games they could remake can still be had for about the same amount of money as what the remake would cost. Yes, there is something to be said about having a brand new machine and special new features over the old games but I just don't know if I buy that the demand is there for the other titles at the price point. I think the fact that the most speculation is over games like CC, BBB, and kingpin which are sill priced out of most peoples reach and hard to find proves this.

I also agree that building a game from scratch is hard, which is the point I was trying to make, they've now successfully remade a game, probably another one on the way, and they now have experience in actually building games. This gives them a leg up on the next step which would be creating an actual new original game. They had to do a lot of their own engineering for MMr, and now they also have experience with the other aspects of manufacturing. Sure, its no walk in the park, but now they have their own software system, vendors and suppliers and valuable experience.

I think the remakes are cool, but I'm not ready to believe that a totally new game is out of the realm of possibility either. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they have up their sleeves

Well, it was a bit of a bumpy road and probably a big learning experience. Hopefully game #2 will go smoother.

There's a big difference between building games that already has a finished design, and designing one from scratch. It took years for JJP to get started and getting games out the door. I would imagine CGC wouldn't even think about a custom game until after putting out a few more remakes to work out production issues and get that moving along smoothly.

If anybody is interested and not sure what's involved, feel free to contact me. Both existing efforts (BoP2 and CCC) were implemented by P-ROC customers using the P-ROC board (pre-fliptronics WPC variant for BoP2 and WPC-95 for CCC).

Also feel to send me your email address and request an invitation to the Pinball Development slack chatgroup. Most of the high profile homebrew pinball developers chat daily on this and can quickly help you understand and even help you be successful developing similar projects.

- Gerry
http://www.pinballcontrollers.com
http://www.multimorphic.com

The people doing it. They have posted remakes and not into new games.

LTG : )

Will these remakes only cover a five year span of the well over 100 years of games Bally and Williams made put together?

If so, that seems like a very narrow focus when they made so many other great games thru all the years.

Heck yeah. I want some new solid state Ballys. Eight Ball Deluxe, Fathom, Medusa, Centaur. You wouldn't even have to worry about programming for color DMDs.

And just think, they could leave the mylar off this time.

This is a great read when you just read the posts from PPS!!! Lol

I don't think JPOP could make a paper airplane without a team of unpaid workers around him (doing it for him)

I cant imagine the hate and vitriol you would endure if you hired Jpoop.

I personally hope they venture into the games of the past...Frontier, Seawitch, Swords of Fury, Pharaoh, etc etc...

Original superb and collector quality MMs do not cost $8000 (or even the "new" standard of $9500), and never will at this point in this hobby.
The boat sailed just like the attempts to obtain the game for under $4k in hopeful closeout status, which never occurred unlike games such as CV.
Pre-fabricated belief by hopefuls just like operators and owners believing WMS was going to do an additional run of the game in 1998.

Let the water break, and watch the tidal wave of people who drop $9500 on BBBr (#4) (Remember the game was actually made 3X if you understand the full history), and prepare to wait 3+ years.

No offense to CGC or PPS, but I know the next pinball market stall (not "bubble" as this is not the correct term here) will happen before the dust settles on this title, and many will be out if the hobby again, most cancelling their orders for refunds before they receive their games. Something that already has been considered.

Just another ciche of "Fistful of Dynamite" (Duck You Sucker!).

I for one would love to see something done to TOTAN like CCC.

So I'm still a bit of a noob when it comes to big pinball shows (plus I live in idaho, so...). So what are the next few big opportunities for announcements when it comes to the next remake (and other pins)?