(Topic ID: 295681)

Next Pinball Depression

By scooter75

4 months ago


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  • 148 posts
  • 59 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by scooter75
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    There are 148 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 4 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I have 20+ pins setup, when they brought friends over it would hold their attention for 1/2 hour and then they were on the X-Box.
    What we like and what they like are rarely the same.

    Is your post about you having 20+ pins? So you have a lot of pinball machines and some friends you invited over were not interested. Sorry about that.

    #52 4 months ago

    Liking pinball is no different than liking pool or darts. You just have to get places to put the machines in. Pool is hard but people still play it. Heck if there is a checkers board at a bar people will play it. It is just a matter of getting bars to install pinball machines. Pinball is cool. All the pinball companies have to do is make machines that attract people and don't break down too often.

    #53 4 months ago

    The absolute best thing that could happen would be pinball “dying” again. Then I might be able to afford machines.

    At this point there will always be demand for small boutique runs of games so it’lol never completely die, at least in my lifetime, so why worry.

    #54 4 months ago
    Quoted from Phbooms:

    Fortnite is a theme that would bring kids into pinball. Online matches with team vs team with chat is what kids love to play and first pinball company to get that license and do it right with online would crush it with the younger generations.

    Three problems.

    1. They can play Fortnite easily & for free on their phone/tablet/PC/console.

    2. There are 350 million Fortnite players. That means a 99 person match starts instantly.

    3. Pinball machines sell a few thousand or so if they’re lucky. Pinball’s very nature doesn’t lend itself to the reality of the online play ecosystem.
    Not only that, try to explain what online vs. play for pinball would even be? In Fortnite, you’re all interesting together in the same space. Pinball is it’s own enclosed machine. Multiple machines can never be doing the same thing, so they really can never be 1-to-1 interactive like an online video game.

    Pinball is pinball. Person vs. machine. Trying to make into a live online game makes ad much sense as having it make toast. Actually, making toast might make more sense.

    #55 4 months ago

    wait, when was the last pinball "depression"? I've been collecting for 15 years and am constantly hearing the "bubble is about to burst!!"

    #56 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Three problems.
    1. They can play Fortnite easily & for free on their phone/tablet/PC/console.
    2. There are 350 million Fortnite players. That means a 99 person match starts instantly.
    3. Pinball machines sell a few thousand or so if they’re lucky. Pinball’s very nature doesn’t lend itself to the reality of the online play ecosystem.
    Not only that, try to explain what online vs. play for pinball would even be? In Fortnite, you’re all interesting together in the same space. Pinball is it’s own enclosed machine. Multiple machines can never be doing the same thing, so they really can never be 1-to-1 interactive like an online video game.
    Pinball is pinball. Person vs. machine. Trying to make into a live online game makes ad much sense as having it make toast. Actually, making toast might make more sense.

    What were they thinking when they added DMDs, who wants a red dotted TV in there pinball machine? We would all be playing EMs if pinball didnt advance in technology and with todays tech the possibilities are endless unless you dont want change.

    I get what your saying though. What is some ideas you have to bring new players into pinball?

    Does Multimorphic have interactive online gameplay with one of there games? Some reason i thought they did or were working on one.

    Fortnite wise it wouldnt have to be Battle Royals of 100 people it could be 1 vs 1 even. If there was a pinball depression a company will have to come up with something to bring new players in and online interaction is the way of the future for everything not just pinball.

    #57 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Three problems.
    2. There are 350 million Fortnite players. That means a 99 person match starts instantly.
    3. Pinball machines sell a few thousand or so if they’re lucky. Pinball’s very nature doesn’t lend itself to the reality of the online play ecosystem.
    Not only that, try to explain what online vs. play for pinball would even be? In Fortnite, you’re all interesting together in the same space. Pinball is it’s own enclosed machine. Multiple machines can never be doing the same thing, so they really can never be 1-to-1 interactive like an online video game.
    Pinball is pinball. Person vs. machine. Trying to make into a live online game makes ad much sense as having it make toast. Actually, making toast might make more sense.

    Both of these points are irrelevant. The fact that pinball is its own enclosed space makes online much easier. You do not require sync so you can play pinball online in real time with anyone that has every played a game online. There is no requirement for them to be online at the same time as you. It's like Golf, or Ghost racing there is no direct interaction between the players. Countless video games have online interactive modes that are not actually in sync. That is the beauty everyone could get to play against anyone.

    #58 4 months ago

    A correction would be nice

    #59 4 months ago

    Has pinball ever really been meant for kids? I wasn't really around arcades in the 70s, but throughout my life I have never seen kids younger than teenagers actively flocking around pinball on their own initiative (ie, not encouraged by a parent). My friends and I weren't playing pinball regularly as small children, but got more interested later in life. Just like children aren't usually playing billiards on their own.

    #60 4 months ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Both of these points are irrelevant. The fact that pinball is its own enclosed space makes online much easier. You do not require sync so you can play pinball online in real time with anyone that has every played a game online. There is no requirement for them to be online at the same time as you. It's like Golf, or Ghost racing there is no direct interaction between the players. Countless video games have online interactive modes that are not actually in sync. That is the beauty everyone could get to play against anyone.

    Comparing scores on 2 different machines is pointless unless both are guaranteed to be setup identically, which is impossible. It will never happen. Even keeping high scores on the same machine over time doesn't mean much because things change.

    #61 4 months ago

    As someone wo plays a ton of Fortnite and Pinball I can say, with confidence, a Fortnite Pinall Theme would be a terrible idea. Kids would look at it as some odd tie-in and see through it. Fortnite is a community game that you play with your friends. You explore a map to see what is new. New Emotes. New Guns. new Skins. For many players saying someone is "trying" to win is actually an insult (They call them "sweats").

    If it was possible to actually create a pin with tons of ever-changing downloadable content that focused more on online chat and less on flipping it might actually work... but 99.9% of current flippers would hate it.

    I'll go ack to JP2. I am not sure if there is a hotter IP for U12 boys than JP (unless you move into te preschool stuff... then Ryan, Paw Patrol, PJ Masks, and etc would probably beat it) . The new Netflix animated series is hitting it out of the park.

    #62 4 months ago
    Quoted from Jgaltr56:

    Comparing scores on 2 different machines is pointless unless both are guaranteed to be setup identically, which is impossible. It will never happen. Even keeping high scores on the same machine over time doesn't mean much because things change.

    I am so sick of this argument. People try and cheat at everything. This is not a battle to the death. It's being able to go to your machine and say I would like to play against Elwin. It grabs his last game, and as you play what he does is played back. So it either yells out or plays on the LCD his shots, modes and score in real time against you. You get to see how he plays learn what he shoots. You most likely get your ass handed to you but you might actually win a few games. You can compare how you and all your friends do against him and each other. No one is saying you should bet your car or expect it at the Olympics. You can share games that you kick ass with other people. It's just fun and engaging. Engagement is king in any entertainment product.

    #63 4 months ago

    The younger generations only get excited about pinball when they see someone good playing the machines, just like when I was a kid watching older players. It seemed like magic, this guy could line up and hit any shot in the machine. He could drop catch, bounce pass, post pass, bang back, kick save, slide save, slap save, death save. It was like he was some kind of wizard... he walked away leaving 5 credits on the machine, nodded to me and said "Enjoy 'em, kid". If we stop just playing and start worrying about who is or is not playing pinball, it surely will die. Get out and play the machines, make yourself look ridiculous. Play with some flair, with some eccentricity, make some noise. Whoop it up when you are doing good, and roast the players who are sucking. Show people pinball is about having fun, not about worrying when the ride is going to stop and we all have to get off.

    #64 4 months ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    I am so sick of this argument. People try and cheat at everything. This is not a battle to the death. It's being able to go to your machine and say I would like to play against Elwin. It grabs his last game, and as you play what he does is played back. So it either yells out or plays on the LCD his shots, modes and score in real time against you. You get to see how he plays learn what he shoots. You most likely get your ass handed to you but you might actually win a few games. You can compare how you and all your friends do against him and each other. No one is saying you should bet your car or expect it at the Olympics. You can share games that you kick ass with other people.

    Sounds like what is already available on YouTube?

    #65 4 months ago

    I don’t think we should be so quick to dismiss the online challenge idea. We’ve often had challenges in the Club threads, and I’d love to register my pin in a challenge (with my Pinside username) and have it post all my stats at the end of the game - maybe with an opt-out for bad games. These don’t even have to be score-based. It could be “most combos” or “highest mode score” or “best demogorgon multiball”. There are lots of creative possibilities.

    #66 4 months ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I don’t think we should be so quick to dismiss the online challenge idea. We’ve often had challenges in the Club threads, and I’d love to register my pin in a challenge (with my Pinside username) and have it post all my stats at the end of the game - maybe with an opt-out for bad games. These don’t even have to be score-based. It could be “most combos” or “highest mode score” or “best demogorgon multiball”. There are lots of creative possibilities.

    Exactly you can do fastest time to a certain score. First to complete a certain number of modes. Longest ball, with out a cradle. You can even do the shitty awards for most drains, there is endless things you can do to make it fun.

    #67 4 months ago

    Pinball is toast.

    #68 4 months ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    You're right. It's not! Lol. That, too, had declined heavily over the years.

    Star Wars is not popular is one of the wildest takes I've ever seen on this website. Star Wars toy sales were up 70% last year:

    https://screenrant.com/star-wars-movie-show-toy-sales-2020-increase/

    That's just toys (for kids!)! I know "kids only care about TikTok and Fortnite"...but Star Wars videogames are hugely successful, especially the Lego series.

    I'm fascinated that your kids not being into Star Wars has convinced you it's not popular. Star Wars is literally the opposite of in decline...so much so they just made a new pinball machine based on it .

    #70 4 months ago

    Wow, there are several manufacturers that cannot keep up with the demand and OP is talking about a depression?

    Fortnite is a horrible idea. It won't draw a younger crowd. You need to actually like pinball...the theme only works when you actually like pinball. Believe it or not, a lot of pinball don't enjoy pinball.

    #71 4 months ago
    Quoted from drypaint:

    Is your post about you having 20+ pins? So you have a lot of pinball machines and some friends you invited over were not interested. Sorry about that.

    I didn't invite anyone over and stated as such in the post, odd what you choose to seize upon.

    #72 4 months ago
    Quoted from Phbooms:

    What were they thinking when they added DMDs, who wants a red dotted TV in there pinball machine? We would all be playing EMs if pinball didnt advance in technology and with todays tech the possibilities are endless unless you dont want change.

    False equivalency. Changing the scoring display isn’t the same thing as forcing pinball to be online video games. Also, it’s “their”.

    Quoted from Phbooms:

    I get what your saying though. What is some ideas you have to bring new players into pinball?

    Notice that pinball has been bigger lately? Pinball brings new players to pinball. Also, it’s “you’re”.

    Quoted from Phbooms:

    Does Multimorphic have interactive online gameplay with one of there games? Some reason i thought they did or were working on one.

    “Their”. Yeah and no one is buying Multimorphic, so its online functions are pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things. Not a game selling feature.

    Quoted from Phbooms:

    Fortnite wise it wouldnt have to be Battle Royals of 100 people it could be 1 vs 1 even.

    Then it’s no longer Fortnite. The whole point of Fortnite is battle royale.

    Quoted from Phbooms:

    If there was a pinball depression a company will have to come up with something to bring new players in and online interaction is the way of the future for everything not just pinball

    Pinball isn’t “everything”. It’s pinball. It’s survived due to its physical & retro nature.

    #73 4 months ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Exactly you can do fastest time to a certain score. First to complete a certain number of modes. Longest ball, with out a cradle. You can even do the shitty awards for most drains, there is endless things you can do to make it fun.

    That all sounds like anti-fun. Pinball has so much fun in it - if you’re bored of what it offers and thinks it needs these video gamey things, maybe pinball isn’t for you.

    Most people don’t even know pinball has rules. Trying to “beat” some online ghost isn’t going to interest or satisfy enough people to become something that pinball should aim to have.

    #74 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    That all sounds like anti-fun. Pinball has so much fun in it - if you’re bored of what it offers and thinks it needs these video gamey things, maybe pinball isn’t for you.

    “It’s less fun to compete”??

    #75 4 months ago

    Not yet, but it will happen (regardless of the themes) and a lot sooner than people think IMO. For now, I'll enjoy this second coming of the "Golden Era" for as long as it lasts. What has happened over the last ten years in this hobby was unthinkable twenty or twenty five years ago. I remember in the late 90's people were wondering if eventually we won't even be able to find parts, much less see new games and manufacturers coming into the market.

    #76 4 months ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    “It’s less fun to compete”??

    Competing on same machine together = makes sense.

    “Competing” on different units “against” someone somewhere else = pointless, doesn’t sell more games or make more people want to play.

    #77 4 months ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Star Wars is not popular is one of the wildest takes I've ever seen on this website. Star Wars toy sales were up 70% last year:
    https://screenrant.com/star-wars-movie-show-toy-sales-2020-increase/

    Yes. By grown men.

    My argument was children dont care for star wars the way they used to, on a whole. 50 year old men buying star wars children's toys doesn't mean children like them. Star Wars is mostly kept alive by nostalgia.... like pinball.

    #78 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    That all sounds like anti-fun. Pinball has so much fun in it - if you’re bored of what it offers and thinks it needs these video gamey things, maybe pinball isn’t for you.

    I agree on the "pinball don't need no video gamey things". That's not going to help sell pinball machines. And head to head only works when playing the same machine at the same time. Now what I could see are co-op modes where the other players successes help advance you towards the next objective.

    But how often does someone actually want help? I always considered my game as my accomplishment, and wouldn't a high score in co-op mode require all associated players to enter high score initials? Pinball is a solitary game, it's you against the machine. You compete on score, not advancement into the game.

    All this talk about online play going to help keep pinball alive is pure b.s. in my book. They could have been doing it a long time ago with virtual pinball where every machine IS IDENTICAL, and they still haven't done that yet on a large scale basis. I don't think it will catch on anytime soon until you change how we keep score, how you measure success, or how you could actually compete across the net without cheating going on.

    #79 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Competing on same machine together = makes sense.
    “Competing” on different units “against” someone somewhere else = pointless, doesn’t sell more games or make more people want to play.

    Clearly you’re not hip to the online dart scene (for example). Competing against someone in another country is hella fun. If you don’t see the point, I’d guess you don’t play in casual tournaments. IDGAF if someone else’s game is set up at a different angle, or is “easier”, it’s still fun to compete and trash talk.

    #80 4 months ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    All this talk about online play going to help keep pinball alive is pure b.s. in my book

    We aren’t talking about “online play”. We’re talking about pushing scores and achievements online in real-time, so we can have a friendly competition. You guys can trash-talk the idea all you want; I think it’s going to happen and it will grow the player community.

    Rarehero and Bublehead in 2002: “Why in the world would anybody want to record a show and watch it later?”

    #81 4 months ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Clearly you’re not hip to the online dart scene (for example). Competing against someone in another country is hella fun. If you don’t see the point, I’d guess you don’t play in casual tournaments. IDGAF if someone else’s game is set up at a different angle, or is “easier”, it’s still fun to compete and trash talk.

    I should have let you know that Rarehero thumbs down or trolls basically everything I have ever posted on the subject. Now its just fun to watch him shake his fist at the clouds. There is a hardcore group that just do not want any type of progression in pinball and if you don't like it they way they like it then you should probably not be in the hobby.

    #82 4 months ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    Not yet, but it will happen (regardless of the themes) and a lot sooner than people think IMO. For now, I'll enjoy this second coming of the "Golden Era" for as long as it lasts. What has happened over the last ten years in this hobby was unthinkable twenty or twenty five years ago. I remember in the late 90's people were wondering if eventually we won't even be able to find parts, much less see new games and manufacturers coming into the market.

    Inflation will help. It’s not leaving anytime soon.

    #83 4 months ago

    Pinball depression? When my pinball machines are looking depressed I simply play a few games on them and that get their spirit up again.

    #84 4 months ago

    Drove by a Pins Mechanical barcade in Dublin Ohio yesterday....it was packed.

    #85 4 months ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Clearly you’re not hip to the online dart scene (for example). Competing against someone in another country is hella fun. If you don’t see the point, I’d guess you don’t play in casual tournaments. IDGAF if someone else’s game is set up at a different angle, or is “easier”, it’s still fun to compete and trash talk.

    Great. A Dartgument.

    Dart boards don’t have the amount of variance that a pinball machine does.

    If you wanna trash talk other pinball players, do it in person like Jesus intended

    #86 4 months ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    I should have let you know that Rarehero thumbs down or trolls basically everything I have ever posted on the subject. Now its just fun to watch him shake his fist at the clouds. There is a hardcore group that just do not want any type of progression in pinball and if you don't like it they way they like it then you should probably not be in the hobby.

    Come on now - a thumbs down just means I disagree with your horrible ideas about everything. Don’t take it personally. It’s all good.

    #87 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Come on now - a things down just means I disagree with your horrible ideas about everything. Don’t take it personally. It’s all good.

    It's my homage to Emily Zugay.

    #88 4 months ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Rarehero and Bublehead in 2002: “Why in the world would anybody want to record a show and watch it later?”

    A little off on your timeline... video taping was invented in 1951, and VHS was introduced in 1976. I owned one in 1981 and had a Betamax before that. Luddite I am not.

    Two players, one machine, and the highest score wins. Just like it's been for decades. No amount of online, DLC, co-op, or video gaming b.s. will change that.

    #89 4 months ago

    Been reading these damn threads about the pinball market crashing for about a decade now.

    #90 4 months ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    Two players, one machine, and the highest score wins. Just like it's been for decades. No amount of online, DLC, co-op, or video gaming b.s. will change that.

    Disagree there.
    The fucking tears you hear from peeps hear against "Playing for points" is amazing these days. They complain about SW on one hand, and praise TWD on the other...it confusing.
    Its aboot "The Journey" these days...if I can say that without puking

    #91 4 months ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    A little off on your timeline... video taping was invented in 1951, and VHS was introduced in 1976. I owned one in 1981 and had a Betamax before that. Luddite I am not.
    Two players, one machine, and the highest score wins. Just like it's been for decades. No amount of online, DLC, co-op, or video gaming b.s. will change that.

    No one is saying that would ever change for people that enjoy it that way. Why are you guys so triggered that other people might like to play a different way. Do you just yank the cord out of the wall and tell people to get out if they push the start button more than twice, none of that B.S. in your house. Four 4 player and co-op has been around forever, it so weird to be shaking your fist over it.

    #92 4 months ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Rarehero and Bublehead in 2002: “Why in the world would anybody want to record a show and watch it later?”

    Did you discover VHS in 2002? And what does that have to do with pinball? Now we’ve got VCRument…DVRument? Streamument?

    Convenient media viewing habits is a bizarre and irrelevant comparison to pinball.

    #93 4 months ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Four 4 player and co-op has been around forever, it so weird to be shaking

    I never said I was anti "up to four players can play", my point is pinball is judged on score. Your score, their score. Does getting to the wizard mode first make you the winner?, No, having the highest score does. I lost a tournament where I hit every wizard mode, scored every jackpot I could, and was promptly beaten by a guy who knew a better strategy and never got to the wizard mode at all. So who achieved more, him, or me? He has the trophy, not I.

    #94 4 months ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    No one is saying that would ever change for people that enjoy it that way. Why are you guys so triggered that other people might like to play a different way. Do you just yank the cord out of the wall and tell people to get out if they push the start button more than twice, none of that B.S. in your house. Four 4 player and co-op has been around forever, it so weird to be shaking your fist over it.

    It’s so weird that you think we’re weird for thinking your weird for thinking a mechanical coin-op machine designed to be enjoyed live for a few minutes & sometimes has less than 1000 units made is ripe for features of 300 million user base free video games.

    Not to mention companies still have trouble launching games complete….to expect them to figure out all this other nonsense that wouldn’t move the needle is silly.

    #95 4 months ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    I never said I was anti "up to four players can play", my point is pinball is judged on score. Your score, their score. Does getting to the wizard mode first make you the winner?, No, having the highest score does. I lost a tournament where I hit every wizard mode, scored every jackpot I could, and was promptly beaten by a guy who knew a better strategy and never got to the wizard mode at all. So who achieved more, him, or me? He has the trophy, not I.

    Why is it so hard to fathom that not all human being care about tournament play or your definition of winning. Some people actually enjoy working there way through modes. Some people like to play different ways and enjoy silly tournaments and goofy modes. Why is it so wrong that pinball might want to expand into different markets if the core experience remains the same for the hardcore. I know its a lot, if one day a pin has this functionality when it asks if you want to connect to the internet just say no.

    #96 4 months ago

    So to summarize this whole thread: Pinball will surely die if we don't connect it to the internet for our children.

    Got it.

    #97 4 months ago
    Quoted from SunnRAT:

    So to summarize this whole thread: Pinball will surely die if we don't connect it to the internet for our children.
    Got it.

    Ah hyperbole, always such a strong argument. We are just saying it might be nice to expand a little try something to bring in other generations. I personally don’t think Paw Patrol theme is the way to go. Adding some basic online elements that are standard in every game, app, device and social media platform might not be a bad idea

    -1
    #98 4 months ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Why is it so hard to fathom that not all human being care about tournament play or your definition of winning. Some people actually enjoy working there way through modes. Some people like to play different ways and enjoy silly tournaments and goody modes. Why is it so wrong that pinball might want to expand into different markets if the core experience remains the same for the hardcore. I know its a lot, if one day a pin has this functionality when it asks if you want to connect to the internet just say no.

    Pinball has a million ways to enjoy it. Now. What’s with this entitlement that pinball must be bent to your will? Is pinball that boring to you in its current form?

    #99 4 months ago
    Quoted from SunnRAT:

    So to summarize this whole thread: Pinball will surely die if we don't connect it to the internet for our children.
    Got it.

    Still waiting for Pinball on the blockchain... They both use tokens right????

    #100 4 months ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Ah hyperbole, always such a strong argument. We are just saying it might be nice to expand a little try something to bring in other generations. I personally don’t think Paw Patrol theme is the way to go. Adding some basic online elements that are standard in every game, app, device and social media platform might not be a bad idea

    No offense, but the with abundance of games, apps, devices and social media platforms in our technology-obsessed world, i'd like to see that all stuff just kinda fuck off and not carry over into something that really doesn't need it in the first place.

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