Sana'a
Quoted from Rob_G:Maybe it's intentionally not a spitfire because that would probably require extra licensing costs from whoever owns the rights to the plane.
Rob
If I was in WWII, they'd call me Spitfire
(Topic ID: 212879)
Linked Games
Archer
Elwin, 2015-
Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (LE)
Stern, 2018
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Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (Premium)
Stern, 2018
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Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (Pro)
Stern, 2018
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Quoted from dts:Another pinsider with ridiculous ratings. They should have a system to approve competent ratings.
Who cares how anyone else rates a game?
Some very high rated games I can't get into, and some games I think are brilliant you might shrug off.
Rotten Tomatoes critics give Super Troopers II a 32%, yet the audience gives it a 76% ...... the only thing that counts is if YOU liked it.
Quoted from PinMonk:No idea, but JBL isn't some fantastic brand of speaker, so I'm sure there are lots of great options from other companies. JBL was likely a well-enough known brand of good enough speakers Stern could get cheap.
JBL is in probably every top 10 audio speaker category (except exotic stuff like electrostatics).
Professional Sound Reinforcement Speakers
Car Audio Speakers
Home Audio Speakers
Studio Monitoring Speakers
You can see that Iron Maiden uses the JBL VerTec speakers on their tours.
Quoted from Raincity:I wouldn't put them in the top 10 of Home Audio, at least in quality (I don't have sales figures though, so they might be top 10 in number of units). The rest of your categories I can agree with, but I'd argue that Home Audio has a lot of other manufacturers I'd put ahead of them in quality.
#4 best selling home speaker brand in the first quarter of 2018 is JBL
Personally, I'd put Martin Logan and Wilson above JBL in quality, but those brands will never sell even 1% of what JBL does in a year.
Quoted from Billy16:People buy JBL because they know the name. I agree with Raincity that there are many better choices for the audiophile than JBL-especially for home audio.
Nothing could be less audiophile than a pinball machine....lol
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I am strongly opposed to Distributors selling for higher than msrp. It allows them to say their inventory is gone on all hot titles.
Car dealers do the same thing.
A hot car will sell for way above the sticker price.
Manufacturers can't stop dealers from selling above the MAP, so it's a free market.
Quoted from Raegor:I'll get it in 3 years when the code is finished and people mod out all that 2D junk with 3D replacements.
Just glue a bunch of dolls all over the playfield and glue a bunch on top of the backbox.
That will make it nice.
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eddie-the-trooper-iron-maiden-single-cover-mascot-with-union-jack-flag-custom-designed-minifigure-1564-p (resized).jpg
Quoted from PinMonk:Believe it or not, != IS the standardized notation for not equal in computer code.
I know, but non programmers (like many ancient pinsiders) are not going to know what that means, and their stacks will overflow.
Quoted from PinMonk:Don't sell them short. I think most people can figure it out from the context.
Quoted from trilamb:I see. Didn’t get that != means does not equal.
Quoted from Bundy:Yes, because we all know that toys, dolls and other crap is what makes a good game grate
I once serviced a guy's collection and asked him if he ever went on Pinside
He asked me "Is that the site where people put dolls on their games?"
Quoted from kpg:It really is mind blowing people can spend thousands of dollars on a commercial grade amusement machine, built with high tech mechanical hardware designed and built by some extremely talented and gifted engineers, artists, coders, etc. Then immediately turn around and browse Walmart.com for the shittiest lame figurines they can find and Elmers glue the things to their brand new playfields.
Pinball is for big boys who never grew up.
Getting to play with dolls again, and imagining that Eddie is real; is fun.
Quoted from bigdaddy07:I just think its lame for Stern to take payments and ship games before revealing all versions.
Stern has told you NOT to send money in advance for games that have not been officially released.
It's the distributors that are taking your payments.
Quoted from jints56:So you don’t think Stern has accepted payment from the distributors yet?
That does not matter to the end user.
Do you care if Samsung has accepted payment from Bestbuy for the TV you just bought?
Stern has told customers to NOT put deposits on games that have not been released.
Quoted from jints56:Stern = Samsung??
No, they are two different companies.
Quoted from jints56:My point was, how are games being shipped, if not “officially” being released.
If Stern announces the game and shows you pictures and gameplay then it's pretty safe that it's official.
MAP = Minimum ADVERTISED Price
The distributors can sell it for anything they want, higher or lower than the MAP
Stern can't control what a distributor actually sells it for, because that would violate federal price fixing laws.
BOSE speaker company got in trouble with the feds for trying to fix the SELLING price from it's dealers.
So now you always see the same ADVERTISED price everywhere when BOSE are on sale, yet you can buy them for much less in person.
(BTW, I'm certainly NOT suggesting you buy BOSE, lol.....)
Quoted from iceman44:So Stern basically suggested that the distributors collude to fix prices
Stern witch hunt....no collusion. sad.
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It's like Canon pro lenses.
The **sale** price is the same on every web site.
But if you go into a camera shop, they always give you a discount. If you call and order through a sales associate, they give you a discount.
Quoted from venom112:My problem is that why should us as consumers have to pay for and install quality braces on these cabinets.
You don't have to put aftermarket braces on the cabs.
James installs them before routing and the joints still telegraph through the decals, so he says they don't make any difference in commercial use.
I've repaired so many hundreds of Williams cab joints back in the day, that I could never count them. Bracket or no bracket, joints split if they want to.
Quoted from venom112:If stern is using cheap wood why the hell are they not installing heavy duty braces from the factory so the consumer doesn’t have to deal with this.
If there is one thing Pinside has proven again and again, it's that Pinsiders have no idea what quality plywood is. Absolutely none.
The more layers in a sheet of plywood, the more expensive it is (generally speaking, I know some Pindick® will find a 200 layer sheet for 3 Rupees and start wildly beating his meat ).
Here is a cheap piece of plywood.
Very few layers (5 layers), voids between the plys, and no MDO faces to make it smooth and hide the grain:
Image15-2-1024x576 (resized).jpg
Williams used this type of plywood until the 90s.
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Just for the Pindicks®, here is a cheap piece of plywood with many layers, but you can see that the layers are not straight, tons of voids, just anything they could smash together, and no MDO face:
You don't see this stuff too often in the States, but I know someone would say "LOOK!!!! Here is 13 layer plywood from India, solid, mega lumber core, supreme! "
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Finally, let's look a piece of quality plywood.
Many layers.
All the layers are straight.
No voids.
MDO face.
a4a051d6e1946202069f349c819c86160c749727 (resized).jpg
The MDO face is a super smooth layer of MDF that comes pre-primed and sealed from the factory. This layer prevents the grain of the wood from telegraphing through the paint or decals.
If you need to paint a plywood product, MDO Ply is the ultimate. Williams started using this in 1992.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Does pinning help these newer cabinets?
Gottlieb put panel pins and certainly seems to help stop cabinets splitting?
I've repaired 100s of Gott cabs back in the day too.
Biscuits, and dowels are great for alignment, but not strength. Finish Nails or Brad Pins are great to hold a joint until the glue dries- but they pull out easily, bend easily.
The only substantially stronger joint than the different loc-joints would be Dovetail joints - and those would telegraph that trapezoid pattern through the paint. It might look cool on the right title if unpainted.
The real problem with pin cabs is they are a poor design choice. An open frame box is simply weak from the getgo.
Quoted from iceman44:What would you say is the difference on a JJP cab?
It looks like the JJP cab is not plywood, it's Medium Density Fiberboard
It appears to have brad nails in it.
It appears to have a lap joint rather than a locking corner joint.
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img_4699 (resized).jpg
Medium Density Fiberboard is about 40% heavier than plywood, so that makes for a really nice and heavy cab.
Quoted from iceman44:They are damn heavy. Any real benefit of using the fiberboard?
Advantages:
MDF is half the price of MDO Plywood.
MDF is 40% heavier, so you get a much heavier game without making the cabinet panels thicker.
Disadvantages:
If MDF gets wet it soaks up water like a sponge and expands.
MDF has 1/2 of the screw holding power.
MDF is much less impact resistant on the corners.
Quoted from Aurich:MDF is often a problem on old arcade cabs because they go down to the floor, and when that stuff gets wet it's the worst, swells up like a mfer. Pins being so elevated on their legs it seems like less of a potential issue. Don't spill your pingulp drink on them though.
Right, make sure you don't store your game folded up on end without being on a plastic pallet or rubber mat.
Concrete in a basement or garage can allow moisture to be wicked up into the cab, swelling it.
Quoted from iceman44:So despite being heavier, lesser cost and quality versus the Stern cabs.
Yes and no.
Pinsiders like to talk about how heavy their games are.
Manufacturers like to save money.
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JJP is not the only manufacturer to use alternatives to plywood, Bally in the 80s had those crazy heavy particle board cabs too.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:If Stern is using MDO then why are the cabinets cracking and JJP's are not?
Are you talking about CRACKING or the seam telegraphing through the finish?
Look at the JJP pic, the joint has opened up right on the tip of the corner.
If there was a decal over that joint, it would of course be torn.
Quoted from cooked71:Funny, cause this is what my DILE looked like:
That panel is plywood.
Just like 2 different companies made the same playfield in both Birch and Maple for JJP, it's certainly possible that different cabs were made.
What kind of corner joint, Lap or Lock ?
Quoted from Shapeshifter:That explains a lot.
For those who don't know, Gottlieb experimented with particle board in the 1950's. They made one game, Wishing Well in 1954.
It was a super heavy game.
For reasons unknown they never made another game with this material.
Gottlieb also used particle board for some of it's playfields in 1977, there were a few titles, but Big Hit comes to mind.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Just wanted to post this pic. This is the opposite side of the same piece of wood / joint from the top of the game. It's doesn't look like MDF, I can see the plywood layers. Maybe JJP is using some type of coating on the bottom of their games to give it a finished edge as it's smooth on all 3 of my JJP games. Either way, it doesn't appear to be MDF.
Also interesting, they are using a Lap Joint rather than a Lock Joint.
Quoted from RA77:Otherwise I'm confident there will be a fix around the corner
There was a note from SR inside Black Knight that said "We believe all the ball traps have been found and fixed", so even the simple games back then had a few traps.
MM used to get balls stuck on top of the castle when the trolls would pop them up - apparently they never had that happen in play testing, lol
Back when I had my route, our local distributor would pay for us to deliver games to wealthy clients.
We would always do a 24-hour burn in on the games and then deliver them unboxed.
There would always be a dozen little problems with the games, so finding them ahead of time ment much less trouble for the distributor.
Quoted from j_m_:but just how long would a car company or an appliance company last if their QC was as wishy-washy as stern's?
5 least reliable cars for 2017:
Chevrolet Camaro $47K
Mercedes-Benz GLC $50K
Jaguar F-Pace $54K
Cadillac Escalade $88K
Volvo XC90 $57K
Some of those are expensive cars, from high-end brands, yet they have the most problems.
Luxury comes with a price....
Quoted from Concretehardt:I am pretty excited that the game is sitting here but honestly I can’t see my self opening it for a while, between my brain surgery at the end of February and the siezure meds I’m on
One of my closest friends had three brain surgeries in the past year (he's here on Pinside), and he's recovering nicely (I think they only took the bad chunks out).
May you heal fast and your sex drive double!
Vid
Quoted from PinMonk:Not really. You can't compare as if all machines have the same desirability, plus throwing a WWE LE into that comparison screws up all the results, since, what, 40% of those are still unsold?
Exactly.
I know guys that still have multiple NIB Transformers LE that they will never be able to get their money out of.
Everybody got excited by Tron LE (400 produced), but that cashgrab did not translate into every title.
Quoted from kpg:The design is pretty terrible, in my opinion. The plastic is super thin - doesn't feel like a commercial part at all.
It literally rocks back and forth in this plastic "cup" like plastic piece. Not sure who designed it but they should rethink this thing.
That is a Pop Bumper Spoon.
It's a super reliable design that has been used extensively in pinball for the last 60 years....
Not revealing the artwork until after everyone ordered is sheer genius on Stern's part.
It's like Elon Musk taking deposits on a 500,000 Tesla 3s, that no one has driven or even seen all the specs for.
Super Plan:
Pump up interest and demand into a frenzy.
Have moles on social media make everyone think they must order NOW or miss out.
Show the best looking model first, people will naturally assume the higher-end models must be even better.
In July, start selling a limited edition numbered Egypt Eddy topper w/flashing eyes for $499
Quoted from MikeS:Would love to buy a Premium translite to swap into my Pro! Anyone know the best way to get one?
I'm sure many Premium owners will not like Majorette Eddy, and will be glad to trade.
Although I saw Stern will be selling a vault Marching Drum Eddy model too.
That one is tentatively called "Legacy Of The Beat"
Quoted from flynnibus:Yet his concern was with the plastic spoon itself... because he's never seen one before. Which is because he really doesn't know much about the guts of games.
This will explain it to anyone unfamiliar as to how they've worked for the last 60 years, and how to adjust them for proper function:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers#post-486004
Quoted from PinMonk:Simulated UV? So it's some combination of blue and red? What's the wavelengths you're using to simulate UV? Some of the deeper blue wavelengths are dangerous over time, too.
Blacklights for posters warn to not expose yourself to more than 1 hours of UV light, so yeah, be careful !
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