(Topic ID: 247792)

Next Stern title is JP2 Jurassic Park


By Whysnow

5 months ago



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3 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #404 Promo Photos Posted by Coolpinballdino (5 months ago)

Post #1234 Stream Reveal Posted by Auror (5 months ago)

Post #1501 Feature matrix Posted by Spyderturbo007 (5 months ago)


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#241 5 months ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

www.johnnycrap.com here is the artist on the pin if you want to check out his work.

That's some edgy art, that's for sure......

#304 5 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

NO MOVIE CLIPS! I seem to remember JJP Pirates getting savaged for no movie clips. Will this game be treated the same if there is truly NO movie clips? Why even do the game then, why not just do your own Dino themed game? I can't believe they can't use clips from the movie when all the dinos are CGI!
That makes no sense, other than Spielberg is the producer of all the movies and won't allow it. I think this is a really really really bad sign for any possible JAWS pinball!

I kind of wonder if this will be the trend from now onward. Wonka got tore apart also for not having synced audio.

Stern saving cash for sure. Though I'd somewhat prefer more original artwork. No reason clips and art can't be used together though....

#383 5 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Welcome to....Jurassic Park![quoted image]

This would gel with the monster truck tires on the playfield image.

Quoted from Coz:

So far, not too impressed by Johnny Crap’s art. Hope it’s better than his dickbutt pics. Hoping to see some better pics soon

More dickbutt pics???

I'm not so keen on what I've seen either.

#503 5 months ago
Quoted from Halfwasted:

Isn't it weird the Star Wars got a comicon reveal but this didn't???????
How!?

If Stern announced this on a Thursday or Friday, it would be forgotten my the Marvel plans announced Saturday.

Giving info a week later, allowed breathing room and hype to occur. More center stage focus internet buzz wise.

#524 5 months ago

Hmm.

Will this debut to play next week at ReplaxFX/Pinburgh...?

#533 5 months ago

I like that Isla Nublar shows modes, and helps allow a focal point, away from tons of spot illustrations. Good design work there, and easy for eyes to focus and acquire information quickly. Very smart aesthetic!

#555 5 months ago
Quoted from valgalder:

Well the big ugly looking map covering much of the middle of the playfield, while i'm sure functional for the game isn't that nice to look at from the crappy low res images. I'd rather see some more illustration type stuff integrated. I'm sure everyone is going to go bonkers once they see what they do with the video and audio... Other than that, looks so packed in the upper half of the game. I'm sure it shoots like a dream. Can't wait.

Sooooo....you'd rather have disjointed clusters of spot illustrations, rather than a focused design area detailing gameplay that is functional and easy to interpret.

#690 5 months ago
Quoted from Pinstein:

I'm hoping they hired Michael Knight for the call outs on this game as he seems to be the only human on the pf or at least the biggest by far. Games obviously gonna have a good sense of humor.

Me too!!!

But I guess we can settle for Wayne....

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#698 5 months ago
Quoted from Coz:

Don’t worry, Sterns new online connectivity and DLC will allow you to purchase upgrades for your digital monster truck. If you’re a stern insider, you get 25% off all online purchases including future dlc that includes supercharger! All code updates will come via DLC and only $9.99 for version 1.0, $29.99 for version 1.5 and $99.99 for version 2.0 with one additional multiball !!

We all know, sadly....this might be the inevitable future.

#702 5 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Why, in the name of Jesus’s butthole, does Stern INSIST on using these fucking ugly ass yellow cards? I mean really????[quoted image]

Yeah, they do look gaudy, dated, and cheap.

#815 5 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Huh?
Jeff goldbum’s character - Ian Malcolm. It boosted JG and he’s still wuotable to this day
Dennis is the source of memes to this day...
Allan grant and Hammond were personas referenced through all the movies too
Of course the movies put raptors in everyone’s lexicon as well

I agree, but Goldblum became a bit of a hipster god regarding that role, and subsequent inflatable.

https://deadline.com/2018/07/jurassic-park-jeff-goldblum-statue-london-1202428591/

Allan was a fairly poor return to form in the third film, and Hammond is basically gone after the first.

Memorable characters in some regard, but not utilized enough to cement them into the psyche more than the dinos were, which is a downfall in the sequels and reboots. No performances were as memorable, or actions scenes, as that first incredible film.

For me anyway.

#986 5 months ago

It's impressive that this much thread action can be created by Stern, time and time again, prelaunch. I see no other manufacturer even come close to these number of comments like this.

Truly shows you where the market share is for sure.

#1029 5 months ago
Quoted from Coz:

Or just a bunch of bored dudes with nothing better to do than argue about a $5000-$9000 toy- that’s probably the biggest pin release of 2019- Yes, that would include me. Also wife just had a baby so I’m sitting around bored...

Congrats man! Your first?

Yeah, but this still feels more lively, and the how many other threads leading up to this, than most other releases.

I do have a feeling this is going to cut Wonka to the candy bits. Either way, my paycheck isn't affected.....unless I bought one or both, that is!

#1059 5 months ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Newman .5[quoted image]

"My weight was like a room of flesh I hid myself in."

Damn. More frightening a sentence than Poe, King, and Lovecraft ever penned.

#1143 5 months ago

But at this point Stern could also be transparent and officially acknowledge and detail when a reveal will occur.

Crazy idea, I know.

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#1182 5 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

If the JP animations play with audio not synced up to them.... get back to us. Until then... that comparison is horseshit.

I think the argument is specifically film assets. Which it seems like this won't have any.

But of course who the hell knows at this point...damn it Stern!

#1255 5 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Who cares? The original JP didn't have the video assets of the movies assets and we know how great and iconic many of the elements have proven to be. And games like Wonka show that just because you DO have film assets, it doesn't necessarily mean its better.
Seriously.. the media integration in Wonka is horrible. From Scenes that don't climax before the ball is released... to horrible audio clips chosen for the visuals being seen, to scenes you clearly are staring at the people's FACE - yet to not actually play audio that fits the established scene, etc. It's so unnatural and ill fitting.
It points out its WHAT YOU DO WITH THINGS - not what you have, that makes it good or not.

I'm not saying I do or don't care. Just that people will automatically throw out that comparison.

I've stated, why not a blend of both?

Good production and functional integration are what I want, film or animation clips.

#1258 5 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

This really has me wondering because he is in fact a dealer, but there are also people saying that they have already put their orders in on the game also so i don't know what the hell to believe now.

Would be a major half year leak if he's accurate. Elvira is November.

What does he have to gain either way really? Who knows...?

#1272 5 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

If only Stern were that smart with Jaws license we could get that one made.

I'd assume that's exactly what they're doing with Jaws as well.

Feels a bit like Zen Pinball originals.

#1291 5 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Exactly correct. Nobody who has come over to play it has griped about the movie clips.
If you've ever played Star Wars, how often do you skip those repetitive clips? Every time, for me.
This is NOT the deal breaker issue some are making it out to be.

Honestly there aren't too many, from when I've played it a few different times/watched streams, and I get fatigued from watching Wonka roll, the Gobstopper machine, etc. Same with a few of the warg/Smaug clips in the Hobbit.

Best clip theme integration is the innocuous Pirates. I can't be fatigued from watching very brief non sequitur clips of hands, chests, poppet dolls, rainy cups, etc.

Pirates doesn't make me watch the same damn commercials like on tv, over, and over, and over again. They're suggestive, nothing more, and perfect for me!

#1346 5 months ago

Left for two hours....

What the hell happened here???

#1361 5 months ago


Quoted from cooked71:New game is not Jurassic Park, might be Jaws, will have a DMD, is American and will hold BM66's balls.

Left for one hour.....

What the hell happened here????

#1362 5 months ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Basically one dude started telling that if a pinball machine is to be made it must use a shit ton of movie audio assets like call outs and music or it it doomed to fail. Then he started throwing punches around about speaking American and that books suck...
Oh, and a dealer said the new game isn't JP...
All in all I guess it is impatient people losing their damn minds in a nut shell.

Left for thirty seconds here.....

Ah, fuck it. I'm glued to this god damn page for the NEXT ten hours straight!!!!

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#1365 5 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Stern delays Jurrasic Park and now everyone on pinside is fighting. Way to go Gary!

Did somebody say......"Gary"???

#1369 5 months ago
Quoted from tpir:

My expectations coming into this week were like, a two, but this thread has been a noine.

I miss those hijinks so much. Stern had a great second era 10-12 years ago.

-25
#1472 5 months ago

That Rex head flops about like a dong.

I was incredibly excited last night, couldn't sleep much, and I dunno...just not clicking so far.

I hope that music isn't in the game, by the way.

Scratch what I said earlier, looks a bit less fun than a Zen Pinball original.

I do hope it's fun to shoot!

I wonder when the gameplay stream will occur....

-3
#1513 5 months ago

Why booh?

At least debut it with the Williams theme this supposedly has licensed.

It all feels like "Generic: the Pin!".

*waits for Home version*

Obviously, still excited to play it, but man...this just feels a bit empty of character.

On the other hand, at least it's not a retread of the two prior JP games!

But seriously, the detail/sculpt/pain on the Sloppy Sausage, looks Dollar General quality......"good".

#1520 5 months ago
Quoted from anathematize:

Sorry I misread your post. Fast moving thread.
I thought you were implying that you didn't want the John Williams score integrated into the game.
And that is worth of a hearty round of "Boooooossss."
But it appears as though it was my mistake. Apologies.

Haha! No worries!

Yeah, I definitely do! Especially if there's all original art and design work going on, the Williams theme will bolster what's there.

#1528 5 months ago

Price levels are all the same.

6K, 7600, 9K.

500 Limited.

#1542 5 months ago

Jurassic Park is a classic film featuring what everyone loves­­­­­ – dinosaurs! The game is designed to be easy to play, but difficult to master,” said Gary Stern, Chairman and CEO of Stern Pinball, Inc.

Gary with such wisdom, such....depth! He should start writing ads for Hot Pockets. "This food snack is designed to be eaten, but also give nourishment!"

I agree Gary, we all DO love dinosaurs, but also Goodblum!

#1565 5 months ago
Quoted from Crile1:

Paid Crap for art...sarcasm.

I don't think these dudes get paid much, sadly. Franchi doesn't seem to, and I don't think these guys even get a game for their work.

-5
#1652 5 months ago

I can't fathom the BOM on these 9K games. For that extra leap of 3K, you'd think the pinball industry could afford better sculpts and detail.

Hot Toys makes outstanding toys for $230. Even something half this scale amd quality, should cost a consumer an extra $150 within that 3K difference, yet man look at Tortuga Tom in Pirates or the Raptor or Rex here.

Couple that with animations, (obviously can't tell much from this game yet) that on average seem really low scale/budget, and I don't know how we pay as much as we do for home owner use. It's a wacky industry for sure.....

Edit: Yes, downvote and keep paying for toys that look like Dollar General discount aisle pooh....and those excellent Shrinky Dinks on the Pro, let's not forget those either!

When I eat at McDonald's, I realize and am okay with making a choice to eat poorly. When I buy a game with a Tortuga Tom or $3 Jeep, I'm doing the same.
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#1677 5 months ago

For the record, (what a dumb saying) I don't mind at all helping the industry thrive, and profit while doing so. I just feel we deserve higher quality aspects in games, for higher priced models.

I don't feel expecting high quality for high pricing is unfair to request/expect as a consumer.

#1715 5 months ago

Was just thinking, I'd love to see a modder use the existing Rex as a skeleton, create a molded latex sleeve to go over top of it. High quality paint work, molded scales and detail. LED eyes might be asking too much.

The latex could also extend and flatten out, cover the hole in the back.

I remember latex hand puppets as a kid, of monsters. It was amazing the texture and aesthetic even cheaply done latex could manage.

BOGLINS!!! Damn, these things were neat! I loved mine.

It would give it an earthier feeling, less matte. Maybe sell for $100 or so.

#1733 5 months ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Why should they spend valuable BoM dollars on that nonsense when the mod community will cover it for those who care?
I'd rather have more ball interactive stuff than cosmetic stuff.

I want ALL the nonsense I can get, when I pay thousands for a gratuitous purchase. So. Much. Nonsense!

And what he suggested is more practical than high cost, I'd figure.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Everybody around here is a BOM expert except for actually considering why a BOM exists.

I certainly expect BOM + overhead of employees, designer salaries, etc. Clearly BOM isn't say 3K, and then it's all Scrooge McDuck like money grabbing in Uncle Gary's vault. I do understand and respect that.

But I am an expert for my own wallet. What I value for price, craftsmanship, design, etc. And we all have validity in both criticizing and praising these games we love, or hope to love.

It's not all gray.

Though....my wallet needs to grow some mold on it, at some point. I buy too much shit!

-7
#1817 5 months ago
Quoted from jwilson:

So you'd rather pay $10,000 so the dinosaur can have a turtleneck? I dunno, your priorities are a bit whack.

Not at all my friend. Stern has to be selling these to distros for max 6K, and the BOM can't be more than $4500-5K for them.

So yes, for $9000.00 I expect a visual from a centerpiece mech that does NOT look like a floppy dong piece of plastic from a $20 toy I could nab at Target. No thanks.

-18
#1859 5 months ago

Why is anyone amazed, when the bare minimum of the Rex "eating" the ball is accomplished?

Hasn't that literally happened in one prior JP game alone, yet alone other games in some similar manner?

We want to talk about pinball evolving, but isn't this just hoping for it to barely tread water?

Man, this time next year, I really hope Deeproot does something outstanding. Because at this point, JJP is stripping games to compete directly with lesser price manufacturers, and we're all hoping Stern replicates an idea from a manufacturer that it bought out nearly 30 years ago.

Wasn't a game like Black Hole or Haunted House, pretty mind blowing for nearly being forty years old? Banzai Run and Safecracker were pretty inventive too. Rex wildly tossing ball about playfield, thirty years later....genius???

#1867 5 months ago
Quoted from J85M:

No offence @wesman but why are you still in this thread, you clearly don’t like what you see and so far I don’t think I’ve seen you say anything positive about the game, I respect everyone’s critique and opinions even those that differ to mine but your starting to sound like a broken recorded, you are not impressed with the game, the features, the lack of detail in the sculpts the price etc etc we get it.

I've made varying points with each post, at least I hope I have.

The second post I made was defending my logic for being strongly downvoted for bringing up a point of poor sculpt quality for value's sake. And in doing so compared it to a game I own, which I'm not happy about either.

This last post was detailing how the collective we is rejoicing over a basic mech being used, that is as advanced as one decades ago.

Last night in the thread, I was pretty psyched. So.....I'm not allowed to discuss differing viewpoints in varied ways?

A thread only exists to not question and celebrate a consumer based product without blind cheerleading?

That kind of cheerleading, doesn't sound good to me.

I used some annual to head to MGC, then Helicon months later, to see Wonka unveiled then play it again firsthand. I posted photos that first day on site, and well....I'm not too keen on the game. So trying to create an opinion that doesn't simply glow, for a major multi thousand dollar purchase.....is a bad thing?

(By the way, I've thumbed up many people in this thread, for agreeing with their critiques, as well as their enthusiasm which they've expressed. All the while I have yet to downvote anyone for simply having a differing opinion. Crazy huh?)

#1869 5 months ago
Quoted from Gryszzz:

Every party has a party pooper that's why we invited you.

Here's 9K, no you get 9K! No, you have summa this cash!!!!

Sorry, I look at a game and equate value and fun in tandem. This isn't a $60 videogame or $10 movie to weigh frivolously.

Pretty sure you're usually sarcastic, and abrasive in your comment style, but I never call that party pooping. I just accept it for your style, sans you often not making a direct point.

#1875 5 months ago
Quoted from Gryszzz:

Haha. Truth be told that's a little song that my father in law sings to anyone leaving early. Just popped in my head. Have a drink on me bud and have a great weekend.

What song? Do tell!

Hey man, I hope to see this at Helicon soon, and if not at Replay/FX.

I felt let down by Munsters, surprised by Black Knight....and really, the worst problem I ALWAYS want to have, is liking a game so much I'd want to buy it! I want that feeling here as well.

#1878 5 months ago
Quoted from Gryszzz:

Every party has a party pooper....thats why we invited you!
-sung to the tune "Dead Yuppies" by Agnostic Front

Damn. Now I have to look that song up, while spinning in a roll of TP, and sending a check express to Gary!

#1987 5 months ago
Quoted from tpir:

Your points just aren't very good and you are making a bunch of stuff up along the way to get to them:
"Blind" opinions that are based on pictures and video?... people are happy about more than just the mech... the mech isn't basic and appears to work almost nothing like the DE one... The sculpt quality isn't poor just because you say it is... etc.
No one said you can't have differing opinions, your criticism is just really flimsy and comes off like someone who wants to complain and then pat themselves on the back for it for being the true champion of an internet thread.

It's a round and round cycle though, isn't it?

There's gray here. There always is.

My main point is for home ownership, I want more. I can't drop that kind of money every few months, so I would want something that could help me feel the worth in that. Clearly Stern has been doing pretty damn well with this formula, without one more person in the mix/myself, for years.

My opinions are my own. And they're as much hot air as anyone else's. They have validity to me and my wallet alone. I never stated otherwise. I'm just a person that doesn't downvote just because I don't agree with someone or because a someone is stomping on a dream game I'm really happy about, not if they're presenting views that seem somewhat coherent.

I posted a mod idea about the rex, and I'm anxious to play it and be surprised. I'm anxious for the stream monday night too!

Umm, so is that sufficient to detail how I'm not just some jerk trying to be ego dominant or trash on others excitement?

If it is for you, I'm glad. I don't wish to be negative for other's joy. If it's not, so be it, I bend as much as I'm able, in a world where most aren't equally polite.

#2100 5 months ago

Left the thread for 12 hours....

Lordy. Lordy.

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#2165 5 months ago
Quoted from tpir:

Indeed

That is the point of downvoting... There is a false idea on Pinside that a downvote is the equivalent of flagging a post as inflammatory or something. It isn't. From the Pinside FAQ:

I hope you did not take any of my downvotes the wrong way. Your posts are very well thought out and great IMO. It only means I disagreed.

Thanks for the clarification!

Yeah, I guess when I see the color shift from neutral to green or red, those suggest to me "Keep going! This makes sense!" or "Really? Man, that was daft... What the hell are you thinking??". I guess that's all up to personal interpretation.

For me, I definitely disagree with people, but unless I feel it's a severe, absurd stance, I'm neutral. Whereas I upvote very frequently, if I agree with someone or can appreciate someone's viewpoint, even if I disagree with it, but they articulated it well.

I'd say I probably upvote people about 10 times for every 1 I receive, and maybe downvote 1 out of maybe 40/50 times I upvote.

All very personal, obviously. I just try to be supportive, and be positive for others expressing things.

#2185 5 months ago
Quoted from TheCapn:

I'm curious as to how much art style can really change someones mind on a buy or pass. Would art like this help or hinder your interest in the new JP?[quoted image]

I think you've illustrated something I was thinking earlier. The art style or quality is one thing, I feel it's pretty solid, but the overall presentation is so vibrant and earth tone rich. Which is fantastic, but there's no darkness, no contrast to the images.

What you've posted here, I like because of the color palette, use of darks.

Light is a fun adventure, dark is pissing your pants in the rain while that toilet gets munched!

#2311 5 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

You might have noticed, but Pinside is full of cranky old men. Cranky old men who get even more cranky when something is offered to them, for free, that they do not have to watch, that isn't catered to their exacting preferences.
"Back in my day the pinball shows were in black and white, and nobody talked, so we could listen to the chimes!"
Jack does a great job, Stern was super smart to partner up with him. He's an engaging host, doing what people on Twitch are supposed to do, chat with the chat. It's an interactive experience. If it bugs you, then ... don't watch it. Use some of that old man experience to exercise a little patience, you don't have to see the video stuff the moment it drops.
Or, since we all know you won't wait, deal with it. I'm sure Jack will be his usual self, and everyone else will have a good time. I know I'm freaking curious and won't be waiting, really want to see how it shoots and what the AV package looks like myself.

Eh, defaulting to the cranky old men stereotype is often as obnoxious as people being....cranky.

Can people just not care for his delivery, retorts, chatter, trying too hard to be cool amidst a cranky old men nerd crowd kinda vibe?

I think he does some things really very well, has his own charm, and is the best we have out there for reveals, though there's not much competition...somewhat a Deadflip monopoly actually.

I never understand when people talk about the sacrifice a streamer or content provider might make, as if he doesn't benefit with contacts in the industry, exposure most might not have, and most of all ego boon. Something like this is exactly the opposite of selfless.

That said, I like Jack more than I dislike him, and I'm really excited about the stream....though my prune juice on the rocks has yet to kick in...

But seriously, not feeling the same way as everyone else regarding any viewpoint, doesn't make a person cranky or wrong. Perhaps they're feeling the same or other ways towards yourself? Eh.

(Oh, and side point. I really hate complaining about all of this "free content" provided to me via a company trying to sell me a really expensive gratuitous box o' fun. What selfless souls they be! )

#2320 5 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

You should do a little reading then, and apply a little critical thinking to what exactly it is like to do a regular stream.

Quoted from Aurich:

You're literally playing the exposure card. Nobody is holding a gun to Jack's head.

These two comments from you are really contradictory.

So I need to tell him how I appreciate all of his hard work directly.....

Yet at the same time he's doing such a thing...voluntarily?

Those two ideas are in direct contrast. So much for critical thinking.

Thing is Aurich, Jack's work, (and not once did I say it wasn't work or labor intensive) isn't at all volunteer work for the "greater good". He's creating a polished piece of media content for a...ahem, lifestyle brand, and in doing so either receives a small amount of pay, exposure for his channel which definitely nets him revenue, and he feels like he's a pretty neato dude, for standing and chatting while playing pinball, charismaticly so.

For voluntary work, that sounds much more fun, (and maybe not as morally rewarding as volunteer work for non profits/shelters/dog walking/etc) and I'd imagine buffs his regular 9-5 work fairly nicely.

As you said, no one puts a gun to his head.....to seek fame, contacts, industry connections, etc. How virtuous!

I also "love" how you cherrypick arguments, as if I disdain the guy, where a good bit of my text was saying how I feel he's beneficial, and half of it was railing against you for you pulling out the "cranky old men card" of stating how if you don't enjoy his streams, you certainly must be a curmudgeon and angry. What an enlightened viewpoint, so very full of critical thinking.

#2322 5 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

He is then working for pinball for free. He promotes all pinball and locations.
LTG : )

I know Lloyd must work for karma, certainly not for his own sanity most days... God bless you sir!

#2329 5 months ago
Quoted from dirtbag66:

Well said. This Aurich dude is one of the most "holier than thou" members on this site. Good to see someone putting him in his place from time to time.

I'm not so much putting anyone in their place, though I understand your frustration, and appreciate the sentiment of argumentative support.

For me I'd rather challenge viewpoints, and consequently be challenged. But I don't like it when people state something akin to one behavior equating to "blank". That's destructive and does nothing more than create division. So you either subscribe to that viewpoint or are against it. And I feel we very much are a culture of that presently.

In reality, it's all gray.

I usually agree with Aurich, feel he has a lot to offer, while at the same time it can feel a bit like "this is the gospel, and if you do not feel such a way, then...", and I know I'm guilty of that as well. We all are. We all have solid views to offer, and they can also be challenged AND agreed with at the same time!

Crazy notion, huh?

#2361 5 months ago
Quoted from lapean111:

Your username is apt. I think JJP streams are boring. To each their own!

Funny enough, the JJP Deadflip stream is what sold me on Pirates!

Best of both worlds...?

#2365 5 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Me neither, but ignorance is bliss. Whatever was said just ignore it, I couldn’t care less.
Everyone so quick to make things personal. All this talk about Jack like he’s not on Pinside probably reading this thread and biting his tongue.
I said earlier I hoped Keith wasn’t reading people being jerks, he still shows up with helpful comments.
Nothing wrong with opinions, but no need to be mean about it. No need to drag people down.
You know how you know I don’t like someone? You don’t. I’ll never mention their name, just move on.
Stream tonight will be fun even if it’s not perfect in some fashion or another.

I don't know if you're referring to me, as you didn't directly reply to me, after you initially stated I was ignorant of streamer's hardships, but after questioning your viewpoints in a fairly thoughtful way, I seem to be at gnat level. (I do find it "funny" you directly reply to someone telling you you're awesome, rather than someone questioning your viewpoints.)

I haven't seen anyone dragging anyone down here, forum user or designer.

Who was being a jerk to Keith? I haven't read any derogatory comments? If anything, he's a diety level here. Frankly, he and all designers should regularly show up. They're trying to sell a game to their core users. It makes sense to show up, and discuss his game design.

I do like Maiden, but I'm also not one to jump to hailing him as the next or current greatest designer. Maybe we get ten years/5 games under his belt, and then set things in stone a bit more?

#2386 5 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

This is hardly a fair or even rational place for designers to spend much if any of their time. If they want to provide some info that is great. Getting into discussions or responding is a waste of their time and energy. Much like you chasing Aurich about is a waste of your time and energy.

I simply replied to his comment, then him me, and I'd hope for a dialog versus being dusted off. I appreciate dialog, challenging viewpoints, etc. As I said, I like Aurich's input, but in the same sense enjoy having a dialog when I might not.

And designers should definitely engage with their core audience. It helps them develop game theories, understand what users want, and ideally befriend the very same people that are buying their games. If I own a restaurant, I'd want and appreciate input from regulars, and quite possibly develop my skills from their encouragement/critiques.

One could say, playing their games is a waste of time. What is a waste of time, or what is to be valued of time spent?

-9
#2414 5 months ago

Man, a lot of fun ideas here, though budget and execution still look like PS3 era quality or lower visuals. But those modes look really fun, and this looks exciting to play!!!

-1
#2427 5 months ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Best animations I’ve seen in a pinball to date.

Quite possibly, but the pinball industry seems about ten years behind in visual animation quality. I can't imagine any of these companies want to pay much or give time to visual artists.

#2436 5 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

wow pro is a big downgrade compared to premium. Big diff for me on this one. No brainer prem here. TREX doesn't do anything.

Eek. Really??? I stopped watching for a bit, at Helicon.

#2475 5 months ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

We get it, you’re a number one JJP fan boy leading their cheers. But honestly stop with your posting of promoting JJP in a Stern thread. It gets old. I’ve got family who does Disney animation for a living and their first comment when seeing JJP animations has been, what amateurs have done this work? Said Dialed In for example looked 10 years old, animations are so poor. JP animations are far superior from a professional viewpoint, than the 2 tables you mentioned. Although, I like POTC GUI. Just the rest of it is subpar, imo.

Can we just admit that all of this work is a decade behind, oddly?

#2495 5 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

Guys the entire Pinball industry is about 10 years away from video game animation let alone major studios. What in the world are you even fighting over?

Those Oompa Loompahs looks like crap also.

I do like the cannons and interface in Pirates, but not significant animations in that game at all.

-1
#2496 5 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

Man, a lot of fun ideas here, though budget and execution still look like PS3 era quality or lower visuals. But those modes look really fun, and this looks exciting to play!!!

Oops, I'm so sorry! I stated a negative AND a positive within one comment! God forbid we don't just shit all over something emphatically or praise something sans criticism.

Man, these boards. You can't go on a JJP thread and be critical/praiseful or the same with Stern. It's a crazy idea to see a product and simply evaluate it on it's on standards.

If I don't feel like, "oh yes Stern!!!" Should I not post, or the same with JJP? I do hope most of you have stock in these companies, as last I checked, these aren't akin to going to a movie or $10 or buying a video game for $60.

Woof.

#2503 5 months ago

Ten minutes into the stream, finally, and the modes and ideas in this game look better than the playfield. So I'm really happy with that. Code looks fun and inventive, and like they've used the license in a playful and compelling way! I only wish the transitions between animations occured, rather than quick edits, and that the screen was larger.

This really looks like a fun, playful, and well integrated game! I definitely want to watch more, look forward to playing it and then maybe even.....

-1
#2509 5 months ago

Animations on humans look really awkward, as does the monitor shading, looks flat, and that controller panel with modes lit, but then there's really solid work with extra balls, skillshots, and I like the island and how it details where players are. Nice GUI stuff there.

I do wish the score bonus didn't flash from random animation to animation, etc., sans context. Just too much stimulation.

There's a lot of good, fun work here, and I'm really excited to play this in person, and would consider a Pro.

#2522 5 months ago
Quoted from tpir:

If you are going to get this upset over downvotes maybe Pinside isn't the place for you. You appear to take your own opinions very seriously and get really upset when the rest of us don't acknowledge you as a champion of the forum just for posting them?
Whatever the deal is, the martyr gimmick is old and sucks. Please retire it and stop with the meta-posting.

Not so much. I just feel if people are disagreeable, actually state as such, versus dogpile on. Once a dogpile occurs, does anyone actually weigh that opinion with any merit?

I'm always willing to engage and have discourse. It's cowardly to downvote en masse, sans directing comments towards a person, and creating a discussion. If that's how this forum "works" then perhaps you're right.

For me, it's not if I take things so personally, it's more thar it seems to be either an all in circle jerk in these threads or you're an outcast, and there's no inbetween.

Label me as you will, or I don't know....refute what I might write directly via actual discussions, versus shoot down all I say with your generalizations.

I've stated prior, all opinions are farts in the wind, including my own. I have issue when others shoot down others for having views that might not gel. I know the type of person I feel myself to be, I'm no champion, yet I wouldn't assess you in a negative light without knowing you very directly.

Fire away Zuul.

#2528 5 months ago
Quoted from phoenixpin:

This exactly. I’ve played a lot of Wonka already. Layout is great. I just wanted it to be much more of a mode based journey, and I guess that’s just a personal preference but one that seems to be shared by a sizable number of pinsiders, for whatever that’s worth. And yes I know there are some modes in it but they feel haphazard to me for a variety of reasons.
Meanwhile though none of us have played it of course, JP’s code structure makes me excited: Trap dinosaurs and get perks, move along a map to escape the island, rescue people along the way, with side missions of fighting the trex and restoring the control room. Hard to deny it tells a story that’s easily conveyed and visualized while having depth.
Plus really interesting multiball rules like hitting the car to change which side has jackpots but risk/reward of increasing jackpot amounts the fewer the shots. Loved that.

Having played Wonka a great deal tonight, I agree with you on structure here. Adding and moving forward in a coherent way feels lost in Wonka, but here there feels like a more tangible sense of things connecting. Maybe not entirely literally with a plot, but it feels like ideas patching together to create a greater structure, which most of modern pinball seems to forget entirely.

#2705 5 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Wow. JP is pretty much universally regarded as the master in this area, and you don't find the animations in Pirates "significant?"
I strongly suggest you take a closer look. Even transitions between screens are done elegantly.

I was stating that the animations in Pirates are subtle, and not nearly as many varied ones as seen in this stream last night. Animations in Pirates lay in the background, behind gameplay. J.P. de Win has an impeccable design sense for font usage, font animation, transitions, and some original animations. Conversely, those Oompahs look very plastic and rigid.

His layout and screen usage in Pirates is unparalleled. He couldn't even match that level of work in Wonka.

#2707 5 months ago

What stuck in my head, and excited me most, upon waking up today, were the modes and fun nature of the animations most of all!

It feels like the spirit of the property was playfully executed, despite not using direct assets. For a game based on a theme indirectly, this team did an amazing job creating inventive ideas for modes.

I do wish they'd up their text animations, add more prominent drop shadows, and smooth or actually create screen transitions.

For me, that stream had me most excited about the screen, then the shots, then the sound design, then the art package, and lastly the toys. Which that order really surprised me, has me scratching my head!

I'm only 50 minutes in, but kinda feel like seeing more at Pinburgh, and holding off, would be the most fun idea!

#2716 5 months ago

Does anyone have a favorite Stern distributor? One that offers solid pricing and support? Definitely going to consider this seriously for a first Stern purchase.

#2742 5 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I think the JJP CEs are basically a lark. They know not too many people are gonna pay $3,000 more for a game with just some art differences and a truly "limited" availability and they probably don't care. Each sale is a bonus.
Their bread and butter will always be their "LEs."
They were smart to truly offer a real "standard" this time around at a price that can compete with Stern premiums. I've played the low end Wonka and didn't miss the "wonkavator" at all.

Crazy that I never really saw people access the Wonkavator yesterday. I'll admit I suck, but it didn't seem incredibly active in the game at all.

I'm wondering the same about the T.Rex also. I saw it move a decent bit, but when does ball tossing occur? Couldn't find that in the stream.

Also somewhat missing in the stream was Jack Danger! He seemed to pop in just here and there. I kinda missed how he can break things up, attitude/vibe wise, when playing with developers that can often be a bit more on the restrained side. Really fun showcase of a stream overall, and has me genuinely interested in a purchase. Last time I felt that way was his Valentine's Day Pirates stream!

#2746 5 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

It's a game-to-game carryover feature. Some players may go entire game(s) without locking a ball. Eventually someone will lock ball three, and voilà. Or at least that's my understanding from limited play.

Yeah, I saw one locked in for awhile. When my friends, and I played, and stunk, we didn't get a single ball lock.

#2751 5 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

It's pretty rare for him to toss it. Basically it seems like there are three or so T-Rex modes you qualify, and then feed the T-Rex. In one of those modes, he'll toss the ball instead of putting it back on the wireform. I think I saw the dino toss the ball maybe 3 times in the 2.5 hours of play. It's a neat effect that they may want to enable more in the software, but I can see how it can lead to some upsetting drains and possibly stuck balls.

Interesting.... So what happened on the Pro during those modes?

Other than the Rex, really feels like the only significant different is the raptor pen. I'm a bit disappointed the LE is the only one with a shaker....

Thank you for the write up, by the way!

#2799 5 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I wonder how much of that is pre-rendered footage vs generated by Spike. I kinda wonder how much GPU power Spike 2 has in general.
And of course it’s a different team and project manager, although there is some overlap.

I'd assume they're all prerendered. There'd be no reason to use a live graphics engine in this game. I assume so anyway.

#2832 5 months ago
Quoted from indybru:

Showed my wife Peanuts video on pro and premium.
She doesn't play pinball but thinks I should get the premium. The T Rex gobbling the ball won her over. I'm normally a pro buyer,kind of frugal.
Thanks Peanuts.

Peanuts? Is that Cary Hardy?

#2859 5 months ago

Hmm. Do you have any idea what comparison video he was referring to?

Quoted from TreyBo69:

Well stuff like the map screen is being rendered by the game because it has to keep show all the locations of the various players and such.

I'd still think the text could be an overlay over a prerendered image, maybe? My work and knowledge in 3D software is non existent. I jist imagine barebones, maybe the map screen, is being rendered on the fly.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The firehouse may be the most basic piece / mold in GB but it is metal, contoured, and I think it has artwork printed on versus being a sticker. There's multiple other items in GB that are molded. With Wonka the gobstopper itself is a nice 3D mold (without exposed screw heads), the Wonkavision toy used a nice painted mold, and there's also the mold for the Wonka tower. The LE Wonkavator ball lock is the one item in that game I wish was molded better considering the price jump from SE to LE.

Yeah they did, seems like they went all out with that game and then someone said "let's not do that again" lol.

Even from the reveal, I didn't understand people feeling how packed this game seems to be. Plastic boxes like the tower, and raptor pen could look so much nicer if molded, and is that simply a savings of dollars per game?

I'm interested in this game due to code, playful design, and shots. Toys seem bare, art seems pretty decent, sound design seems really nice and beefy though in effects.

#2861 5 months ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

Doesn't the premium version allow a physical ball lock? I'm a sucker for those.

Yes.

Is it just a one ball lock though? That's what I was seeing in the Premium/LE videos.

#2866 5 months ago
Quoted from libtech:

The pro is a pysical lock too, it just locks it in the control room lane instead with the post

Yup. It just feels like that design choice neuters the reason for the pen itself, on the Pro. Cost cutting for sure, but the pen itself seems moot on the Pro. Sucks....

Has anyone seen either lock more than one ball? If it's only one ball, especially in the pen, that doesn't make sense either.

Side note. Coming out for the Switch September 20th. It's a port from 2015, but still looks solid!

#2874 5 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Injection molding isn't actually that simple. It's an amortized cost model, you pay a lot up front, it's easy for molds to cost in the tens of thousands of dollars, and then the plastic for each one is cheap. You want to pump out 100,000 widgets, it's not hard to use volume to make up your initial sunk costs.
Pinball doesn't move 100,000 units. Every time you want to add another injection molded piece to your game you need to pay those up front costs. There's a time cost too, getting the molds made, production etc, and we all know that if you want it at all cheap you're doing that in China. You can add weeks or months to your turnaround working overseas like that. If you discover something in play testing and want to change it, to prevent a ball trap say, you have to start over. New molds, new costs, more time, etc.
There's a reason Stern uses off the shelf toys so often, it avoids those costs and headaches. For things they do custom, like I would imagine the Death Star from Star Wars for instance, that's why the Pro version uses the 'exploding' model even though it doesn't open. Otherwise they'd need a new mold, and those costs. Better to glue the one that opens shut.
I'm sure the mod community will supply new 3D structures for those who care. I'm also sure they won't sell them for dollars per game. Materials like plastic might be cheap, but the economics behind getting you a finished piece often aren't.

Valid points there.

Being cost prohibitive versus creative is always that fine balance. I wish we could see the bill of materials on these games, plus overhead and such. It makes being sympathetic a bit easier when you have an idea of how much, or how little profit is going on with these companies.

Sadly makes sense even for Happy Meal style trinkets, as those toys definitely have to be produced large scale.

I remember the Buffalo Pinball tour of JJP, and Jack talking about the millions of dollars on the shelves there, tied up in parts.

Would commercial level 3D molding be cost prohibitive too...? Or too time demanding?

#2921 5 months ago
Quoted from tpir:

Playing and/or owning GB is not "supporting" him the way you framed it here.

Yeah, I'm assuming he's also never leaving prison for the rest of his life.

Quoted from J-Freeze:

Post #2157 of this very thread.

And if you plan on leaving it off, )though you can also select it to drop onto the wireform) maybe just go for the Pro.

From what Keith said the three settings are off position, wang dongling random drop position, and direct wireform drop position.

He didn't use those words exactly, mind you.

#2924 5 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

really...I own a lot of games and not one of them shoots the ball in the air and lands on the play field...every now and then you'll get an air ball, but as u stated thats pinball....with these softer play fields it might be a concern? who knows? the good news is you can make the change in the software setting....sounds like u need to make a few adjustments your games

I'd like to think with enough concentrated Trex ball drops, he'll be simulating the meteor onto your playfield that killed his kind.

Sweet, sweet REVEEEEEENNNGE!

#2941 5 months ago
Quoted from pickleric:

What’s the action button going to do?

I hope collects dino turd bonuses....

One can dream, anyway.

1qv96d (resized).jpg
#2982 5 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

5-7 on the floor. Not currently turned on but will be aoon

Phew! I thought you were saying they'd only be playable from 5-7..!

That's happy hour time baaaaby! Half off excellent belgian drafts at the Sharpe Edge, just a brisk walk away!

11
#2991 5 months ago

Lots of folks here already!!

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12
#2992 5 months ago

Shots definitely are easier when you're Keith Elwin!

Display definitely looks solid, animations crisp in person.

Upper loop is doable once for sure. Some shots seems a bit tougher.

20190801_135152 (resized).jpg20190801_135153 (resized).jpg20190801_135525 (resized).jpg
#3000 5 months ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Looks fun. What do you give it out of a 10. 1 bad and 10 being the best in the world.

Probably 1014.6! Give or take 1006.2

#3008 5 months ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

Great pics. Thanks! One question: one pic has the playfield looking a lot more lit than the others. Did you use flash on it or was that lighting from the machine? I haven’t noticed any spotlights on the machines in pictures.

No flash at all.

Sorry for fugly pics, there were solid and steady lines, 2-3 deep for each machine, and much deeper for the premium.

Only played one game, guy after me blew it up to 80 million, most likely a pinsider!

#3010 5 months ago
Quoted from Bingovit:

Please don’t call it Belgian beer when it’s not even brewed or created in Belgium please...
I’ve taste the so called ‘Belgian’ beers and was ashamed it was called this as it’s An insult to the many great real Belgian beers!
#rantmodeoff

I think that beer, they actually have brewed in Belgium. It's pretty neato indeed!

#3011 5 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Played 3 games. Gonna take a little to find the shots on this one (maiden felt natural to me, this does not).
Fun game. It is a good shooter, but nothing amazing like I thought when watching the stream. I think with more plays I will enjoy it more.

Did you blow it up with 80million one game? Curious as to who the mysterious Hilton is!!

#3014 5 months ago

Let the other photos begin!!!

Half off drafts start in 14 minutes! Over the Edge is on special at $6, and even cheaper at HAPPY HOUR!!!

By the way, my amazing Italian Beef from Yovi's in Market Square!

20190801_154926 (resized).jpg20190801_161522 (resized).jpg20190801_161603 (resized).jpg20190801_161608 (resized).jpg
#3021 5 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

Indeed.
[quoted image]
Over the Edge – House Beer of the Sharp Edge
Brewed by Brouwerij Van Steenberge, Belgium
Belgian IPA, 9.5% abv
Hops abound in this triple Belgian ale, brewed with three times the normal amount of pilsner-malt to build on plenty of raw rich material, and an ‘over the edge’ amount of Hallertau and Aurora hops. Just to make it perfect with a great hoppy nose, a full round complex mouth-feel and a lingering beautiful hoppy aftertaste, in perfect balance with the glow of the 9.5% alcohol by volume. Refermented in the keg (keg conditioned) to infuse the softness and easy drinkability of the natural carbonation.

Oh man, that sounds delicious! Are you in town for the tournament? Should be my third beer.

Went for an Augustijn Blonde, so damm smooth for a measly 7.5%.

Witterkerke is phenomenal as well.

20190801_165053 (resized).jpg
#3030 5 months ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

That has been asked several times. Most say October (after pros and LEs) but one person noted that his distributor (optimistically) told him late September.

Yeah, I've been hearing late September for Premiums.

Thanks for the beer and grub praise everyone! Just trying to help folks out with good eats for this year or next.

#3040 5 months ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

But most of us are here to talk about the game, not to be inundated by beer pics and talk. Please leave that out and go to a website focused on that...

Sure, if I was posting beer photos at 10:30.

By the way, Sharpe Edge has a happy hour tomorrow 4:30-6:30, and also Sunday 2-4PM. Pinsiders need good places to eat and drink while they're here!

Don't make me send Artemis Gordon after you with some excellent Brandy!

How do I delete photos by the way...?

Anyone want Premium specific photos?

20190801_175438 (resized).jpg20190801_171631 (resized).jpg20190801_175438 (resized).jpg20190801_175438 (resized).jpg779d8b1be21ef7c9f8S0q2MjAzNDUy00nJLLIqKMpPKU0uidFPSS3OTM-LLzOK0bewMIvRL7U0MgMygIpyrQwtDSqMLEx1kqwMdQqAOLWixCqrIB0A.pr868246-2-4351252 (resized).jpg
#3042 5 months ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Great price! Competition keeps the world going round...

Grumble grumble. *hick!*

Screenshot (2550) (resized).pngimages (4) (resized).jpeg
#3047 5 months ago

Managed to get a high quality photo of the Premium.....plus a high quality Chicago Dog Moosestache!

20190801_190755 (resized).jpg
-30
#3057 5 months ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

I was going to say the same thing.

The translights on Sterns are always kind of crappy.

I wish I could like Sterns more, but the feel of flippers, balls striking materials in the game, movement of the cabinet, and translights, always have me feeling like these games, even at their highest levels, feel like home user units. Not commerical pinball on site at a bar or pizza shop.

#3058 5 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

I just realized we don't even know what the action button does yet.

Honestly, I don't know what it was supposed to do either. No one I saw playing, was prompted or used it. Very weird.

#3065 5 months ago
Quoted from DrJoe:

Played several pros and the premium a few times each today. Great shooting game. The upper loop is repeatable....I had 3 or 4 consecutive loops a few times. Great variety of shots that feel good. 4 ramps that can all be hit cleanly. The game feels deep and polished already. 7 examples at the Stern/Cointaker booth in constant play and I never saw the glass need to be removed at any time. No ball traps, no issues at all. Very impressive game.

You definitely are a better player than me!

I was able to hit the upper loop fine, but whiff on the second shot most times.

I felt like, given enough power via cycling, as the translites were blinking off and on a few times while watching, the center trex ramp was fairly smooth as well. Hitting into the pop bumpers was easy enough also.

I saw players hit over 100,000 fairly frequently.

I have no idea what the button does. I feel like the strength of the machine is mode play, and LCD video work.

I'd consider a Pro at $5200-5400, but I'm not sure the Raptor area and Trex movement is worth another $1800 for me. I'd just as soon place it towards another game.

I used some annual for work, just to come today, hoping it would be a bit less busy. I went to play JP, eat hot dogs, and drink beer. I only played this game, and quickly Centipede 3player, which was pretty sweet. Just to give a bit of framework for how focused I was to check this game out.

#3068 5 months ago

Oh, and what are everyone's thoughts on the Newton/Newman balls?

I felt they were a bit of a moment/flow stopper, in an otherwise smooth playing game. I'd rather not have them there, than have them there.

Side note, I kinda feel like the upper loop in Maiden feels a bit easier to rip than here, but I only played 3 games total.

#3081 5 months ago

Crazy how few Pinsiders are posting here, given how many people were in line and playing.

Let's get some more viewpoints!!

I figured more photos and impressions would be up well before I got there.

#3096 5 months ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

So this game is at Pinburgh and not many reviews. Where are the reviews?

I don't get it either. I was shocked no one posted photos prior to me getting there just before 2 yesterday.

Lines were steady on every game. Lots of younger people playing, 30'sish, but older people too. I figured a few pinsiders here and there, but this has been fairly barren for impressions.

#3241 5 months ago
Quoted from Peanuts:

Stern has posted this on FB :[quoted image]

I wonder if those are hanging on something or resting on the playfield hooks?

Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

Jurassic Park Pro had left Stern and is on its way to Helicon Brewing. Can't wait to get my hands on this game!!

Awesome to hear Chris!!!

10
#3271 5 months ago

Stern is missing out on this hot new "peeing" raptor it seems.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/important-toy-news-jurassic-park-takes-the-gold-in-the-most-uncomfortable-way

mattel-jurassic-park-2 (resized).jpg
21
#3274 5 months ago

At Helicon Brewing!!!

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#3289 5 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

And..how was it?

It's fun! I like the objective traversal. Though I feel like the left 1/4, the raptor area, is the area where the least natural shots are being directed.

I also feel the main two ramps, trex and right ramp, are really oddly inclined.

Saw a father and son there, young boy, and the father kept mentioning how it was Jurassic Park to his son, and I kept feeling how that wouldn't be friendly to a small child.

Definitely a lot of dimples, early on.

#3291 5 months ago
Quoted from tbutler6:

You should get an Alice Cooper in there for the kids!

They have one. Total donkfest.

These games are making me feel more forgiving towards my Houdini at home....

#3293 5 months ago
Quoted from tbutler6:

That’s a pretty Jurassic Park III comment right there.

Jurassic Park 3, well....still somewhat better than World 1/2, sadly.

#3322 5 months ago

*crickets*

Is there a different major JP2 thread somewhere?

#3324 5 months ago
Quoted from kermit24:

There are like 9 club threads. Unless the mods cleaned them up.

Thanks for the info.

I looked on the front page, and only saw the Pro V Premium thread around.

I do wish games had more official, limited threads.

#3341 5 months ago

And here I was, hours ago, asking why the JP2 thread was so quiet...

Maybe we should get back to quiet.

#3344 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

This very well may be my first NIB since Ironman...
A pro will be on location near me soon, but I am really interested in the premium.

The Pro seems the vest deal, for me anyway, from what I've played of both.

1 week later
#3499 4 months ago
Quoted from davijc02:

Man if it doesn’t have more use that to pick a control room mode (which you could have done with the flippers) and just possibly launch the smart middle that’s lame as hell and the button shouldn’t have been put in the game.

I'd imagine center buttons are viewed as more input, the more modern, by marketing.

Sometimes they make sense, kinda. Here they entirely don't.

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