(Topic ID: 257706)

Newbie problems with a Williams Palloka from 1964


By Palooka61

3 months ago



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  • 6 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by Palooka61
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Score Motor Shading ring (resized).jpg
Palooka score motor (resized).jpg
Score Motor (resized).jpg

#1 3 months ago

Hello everyone,
I recently bought a 1964 Williams Palooka, my first pinball, with some startup problems that I haven't been able to resolve. I have the schematics and slowly begin to familiarize myself with it, but so far I haven't detected what's wrong.
I cleaned all contacts, cleaned and lubricated score reels and searched for loose wires etc, but so far I have only come up with an undersized relay for the single digit drum score reel. But even if I bring all numbers manually to zero, the machine is stuck in its startup mode and the score motor doesn't stop to turn and the targets reset relay is pulsed continuously.
I found that the score motor gets its current at the end of its (infinite) reset sequence through a closed target reset switch caused by the pulsed target reset relay so I put a paper between contacts 4B and 5c of the score motor to stop the endless resetting. Now this is currently the Reset Sequence:
Power off state: Score is 1111. I manually moved the ball count unit to ball 3 or so. Game over and Game relay are latched. Tilt relay is latched. Pieces of paper between score motor contacts 4b and 5c. (Without them the sequence seems to be the same, but the score motor runs endlessly)
From what I can see, the sequence is as follows: On power on through the left flipper button, the lock relay energizes and the latched game relay gets tripped by the game trip relay. Also the score motor runs to its home position if it was off previously (cutout in the index cam).
Triggering the coin switch then energizes the coin and the reset relays for a short while, then the game relay latches, immediately the reset and coil relays de-energize and the score motor stops (or continues to run and continuously resets the drop targets. Also the ball count unit is at zero and the Game Over light is on (I understand that Game unit =0 triggers the game over light). The score got increased by 5 on all reels (except the #1 reel that is underpowered and resets unreliably), but did not get fully reset.
The Game relay is now latched, the Game over relay is latched and the tilt relay is latched. Score motor is in home position.
Now I can force a successful completion of the startup routine by manually closing the coin relay for a few seconds. Through this the score DU goes to 0 on all numbers, and the ball count goes to 10 and the game can be played (!?).
Besides these problems there are a few things I don’t understand:
The schematics suggest that a reset relay switch is connected through a blue – green wire to all the zero switches on the drum reel. From that I would expect it goes to the middle switch on the score DU which opens at zero. Instead it is connected to the top contact (Which I assume is the #9 contact, always open unless it’s 9, then it closes) .
Then the score motor turns counter to all the other score motors I have seen on Youtube (Mostly newer models though). From its home position, it triggers cam 5 and 6 first , then 4, 3 ,2 , 1. The motor turns into the contact leaves rather than the other way.
I appreciate any advice how to proceed.

Score Motor (resized).jpg
#2 3 months ago

I would check all of the primary switches that can send power to the score motor. All of the switches have a yellow wire and orange/green wire. Check the following:

Reset relay switch
Target reset switch
Shooter relay switch
Score motor switch IND - D
Roll Over relay switch
Target relay switch
Center target relay switch

Make sure these switches are clean and adjusted properly. When the score motor runs constantly, which switches are always closed during the reset process?

#3 3 months ago

Thank you Fred,
I followed your advice and there is some progress now. I also received a replacement coil for the faulty #1 drum reel coil and replaced the undersized one. Since the "endless reset loop" problem was obviously powered from a target reset switch, I adjusted and cleaned the target and target reset relay contacts and cleaned all the drop targets with their contacts, some were quite filthy. Now what happens on startup is: (Tilt, Game and Game Over relays are latched, Score is at 1111, Ball count unit is manually moved to step three from bottom). I removed the paper acting as an insulator from my previous attempts , so there are no blocked contacts anymore.
Power through left flipper button pulls the lock relay and triggers the game relay trip (mostly, not always). ( I think this short pulse is sometimes not enough to pull the game trip relay)
Triggering the coil switch actuates the coil relay and the reset relay, the score motor makes one full turn ( 2 *180 degree cycles for a Williams) and stops now (!), the game relay latched, the reset and coil relay immediately drop off. At the same time the score increases (apparently a half reset) to 6666, the Ball Count unit finger moved to the bottom (probably zero) and the game over light is on.
Game, Tilt and Game Over relays are latched, lock relay is locked, every other relay is off.
With the game over relay latched there is obviously no power for flipper, pop bumpers etc.
Well, one step forward I think…..Any more thoughts someone?

#4 3 months ago

Hi Everyone,

Progress!
Another friendly Palooka owner confirmed that my score motor is indeed running the wrong way around. Ouch. This should explain the unsuccessful startup routine. The score motor is an AC motor (Williams 14A-7756) and has a sticker 50 cycle(!) 24V next to it. It has obviously been tampered with (see image). Anyone has an idea what could have internally happened to it to reverse its direction?

Palooka score motor (resized).jpg
#5 3 months ago
Quoted from Palooka61:

Another friendly Palooka owner confirmed that my score motor is indeed running the wrong way around.

Cool. You won't see this often. These motors are usually riveted together with long brass (?) rivets in the corners of the frame. Your rivets appear to be missing. Is the the case? Can you pull the two halves of the frame apart (just a little for now)?

If the frames can be separated it may be that someone has taken the motor apart at some point. That might explain why your motor is turning in the wrong direction. If the motor was taken apart and reassembled with the coil and steel laminations installed backwards that would cause your motor to run backwards.

These are called Shaded Pole Induction Motors because they use Shading Coils that force the motor to always start in the same direction. The Shading Coils are copper coils around the laminations as shown here:
Score Motor Shading ring (resized).jpg
Without the Shading Coils this AC motor could start running in either direction. If your motor was reassembled incorrectly the Shading Coils might be in the wrong orientation and if so would force your motor to always run in the wrong direction.

Your 50 Hz motor was probably built for use in Europe. It might work ok on 60 Hz although everything will run 20 percent faster.

/Mark

#6 3 months ago

Mark,

you're so right. Great detective work! A previous owner had disassembled the motor and reversed the yoke, which is easy to do. That was a tough one to find, especially being my first pinball..
Thanks so much for helping! Now I can clean it up and have fun playing.

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