(Topic ID: 62554)

Newbie gets first EM "barn find" - San Francisco

By Tulsa_Times

10 years ago


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  • 61 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by CraigC
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There are 61 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 10 years ago

I'm kinda new to all this, but having GREAT fun (again) thus far! I grew up playing EM's and early SS's in the 60's/70's and am now one of the baby-boomers who's bringing them back home. I bought my first machine--KISS--a couple of months ago and have had a ton of fun working/playing on it.

Being a collector I'm used to scouring ebay and craigslist on a regular basis and have now added pins as one of my searches (much to the chagrin of my other half)!! I was a little surprised to see a post pop up last week for a San Francisco for $50!! The playfield and backglass looked decent, so I called the seller. He said that two people had previously committed to it and never called back, but he realized that I was sincere and was kind enough to pull the ad. I finally made the half-hour trip to his place out in the country to pick it up yesterday.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that it was in much better shape than I anticipated. The playfield and backglass are extremely nice for a game that shows over 89,000 on the counter! It appears to be complete, other than missing the door on the backbox and coin mech, and someone decided to paint the cabinet blue at some point.

I realize that this isn't a high-demand game--even though it's the last EM made with a gobble hole and has backglass animation--but figured that it would be fun to try to bring it back to life if I can do so without sinking more into it than it's worth. I figured that it would be a good winter project. I'm currently putting my spreadsheet together on restoration cost, but can't seem to locate any back doors--?? Does anyone reproduce them or can you suggest a source for a NOS or used one?

I'm also open for suggestions on how to best redo the cabinet to original. Again, it's not popular enough to have a paint template anywhere that I've found, but I may be able to put one together myself as I'm someone handy with graphic arts.

I need to go to the hardware store and pick up some bolts to mount the backbox and then will see if she'll fire up--keep your fingers crossed for me!

Oh yeah, in addition to the machine I got the head off of a United Singapore bingo machine. Not sure if there's any reason to keep anything other than the backglass out of it?? I noticed that the one that's shown on ipdb doesn't show the sides of the cabinet, so maybe I can add something to the community.

Any advice or feedback would be appreciated. TIA!

#2 10 years ago

I didn't know they made an EM Kiss machine.

#3 10 years ago

worst case scenario, you can always make a back door out of plywood... might be able to find one at a pin show fleamarket?

paint templates don't exist for em games, so you'll have to make your own... since you are handy with graphic arts, that's doable... there are a few threads on how to make templates, and clay has info on how to do them on the pinrepair site... www.pinrepair.com

you can probably remove the blue paint, and with any kind of luck, the original paint is still there underneath the blue...

there's also info on clay's site about how to properly repaint a cabinet...

cool game, and good luck... pics please! we like pics here...

#4 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I didn't know they made an EM Kiss machine.

that caught me out at first too, but i think he's referring to a "san francisco"...

#5 10 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

that caught me out at first too, but i think he's referring to a "san francisco"...

OK, I read it three times before I made my wise ass remark. Sorry.

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

OK, I read it three times before I made my wise ass remark. Sorry.

No problem--all too often I type just like I think . . .

#7 10 years ago

Thanks for the tips ccotenj. I'm gradually learning my way around all of this stuff. I have a buddy who's a woodworker and I figured that I could have him make me a door if I couldn't find one readily available.

#8 10 years ago

Congrats, I always thought that was a neat game. 60s Williams games are generally underrated in my opinion.

If you know an HVAC guy he may be able to make you a nice back door. It would probably help to have one to use as a template but maybe someone could provide measurements for you.

There are cabinet stencils available for a few popular games. Check with Bay Area Amusements or This Old Game. This Old Game may be able to make you some from a pic. Plenty of people make their own.

As ccotenj said refer to Pinrepair.com for restoration techniques. There is a wealth of info on there for repair and restoration.

Alex

#9 10 years ago

hey alex... thanks for the heads up that stencils might be available... i know i could use a set for a game...

good point on the door... given dimensions, an hvac shop should be able to fabricate one... i shoulda thought of that...

chris

#10 10 years ago

Pics or it didn't happen

#11 10 years ago

I left my wallet, in San Franciscooo........................

#12 10 years ago

Try twisted pins for stencils. He does make a few EMs & can do custom work

#13 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I left my wallet, in San Franciscooo........................

you've been leaving your wallet in a lot of places lately...

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

you've been leaving your wallet in a lot of places lately...

Speaking of which, I got the pics for Sunshine today. It looks very nice. Oh, what to do....

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Speaking of which, I got the pics for Sunshine today. It looks very nice. Oh, what to do....

shot you a pm...

op, where are our pics????

#16 10 years ago

Ok, ya'll want pics, so here you go . . .

Lovely shade of blue huh? And you can see that it has housed some former inhabitants, who obviously trashed the place out!

And does anyone think I'm crazy for trying to plug this in based upon the looks of that transformer (if that's what it is)??

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#17 10 years ago

Sorry, didn't realize you could only post six at a time . . .

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#18 10 years ago

. . . and the last of them. Off to the hardware store for bolts.

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#19 10 years ago

Oh yeah, I tried a little Goof Off on the paint and while it was taking it off, it appears that it would be a VERY slow process. It came off like a charm on the area I tested on the back of the backbox, so I thought I'd see if I could reveal any of the stenciling on the side. It took some off, but would certainly be one big PITA to do it that way and require a bunch of Goof Off. Not sure I could handle the fumes off it that long! Is there a "next step" to try that's not too harsh? I can see where it would be much easier to trace the existing art to make a stencil than to redraw it electronically and would like to go this route if possible.

#20 10 years ago

that transformer looks good to me... transformers are VERY hard to kill... they can be much uglier than that one and still work...

#21 10 years ago

and yup, removing the paint off of anything is a very slow process... unfortunately, there is no "easy way"... just kinda poke along at it little by little.... looking at the pics, you'll have plenty of other things to keep you busy when you need a break...

#22 10 years ago

While it might look bad, I see lots of potential, and think this one will shine up nice!
Good luck with the project and be sure to take lots of pics along the way to post!
--Ed

#23 10 years ago

I think it looks like it has great potential. Other than a little flipper drag I bet that playfield cleans up beautifully.

Be careful with Goof Off. It used to be what everyone recommended for these type of situations. Based on that I bought a can for a machine I had that had been repainted. It was slow to remove the old laytex but once it did it also started to burn into the layer beneath. I quickly abandoned the Goof Off and after a little reading discover at some point they changed their formula to include acetone.

My wife picked me up a bottle of Motsenbockers Lift Off and I had much better results. It is fairly mild and doesn't smell too bad. It won't be quick but with patience I discover a pretty nice original paint job under my repaint. Other people have had paint removal success with other products. Hopefully they will chime in. I think some have had success with brake cleaner.

Alex

#24 10 years ago

alex, have you had any luck with brake cleaner on legs? i tried it on a set, and basically got nowhere with it. i know some people swear by it, maybe i used it wrong...

#25 10 years ago

Got some head bolts in it tonight and plugged it in. It came to life somewhat. Looks like most all the lights are good, but that may be about all I can say that's positive. It seemed as though it was stuck in reset mode, so I unplugged it.

I realize this is a bit of rhetorical/open-ended question, but how does one determine if a machine is worth fixing? I put together a quick parts list today and came up with a minimum of $175 in parts that it's going to need and that's before any of the cabinet re-do or any labor, assuming of course that I can do it myself. Is it worth it to have $300-350 invested in a machine that is only worth $425? I can see that if it had some historical, personal significance and/or market demand that it might be worth the effort but the math doesn't seem to work in my opinion. Maybe I should just flip it as is or part it out and make a few bucks if that's even a possiblity--???

Again, given that this is all new to me I appreciate any advice that you all can provide. From what I understand EM are the easiest machines to work on, so maybe I should learn how to read a schematic and cut my teeth and grow a set . . . but I also know that I need be careful what I wish for--LOL!!

#26 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I left my wallet, in San Franciscooo........................

If your going to San Francisco ,Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair.

Quoted from Tulsa_Times:

Ok, ya'll want pics, so here you go . . .

Nice for the price.

#27 10 years ago
Quoted from Tulsa_Times:

Got some head bolts in it tonight and plugged it in. It came to life somewhat. Looks like most all the lights are good, but that may be about all I can say that's positive. It seemed as though it was stuck in reset mode, so I unplugged it.
I realize this is a bit of rhetorical/open-ended question, but how does one determine if a machine is worth fixing? I put together a quick parts list today and came up with a minimum of $175 in parts that it's going to need and that's before any of the cabinet re-do or any labor, assuming of course that I can do it myself. Is it worth it to have $300-350 invested in a machine that is only worth $425? I can see that if it had some historical, personal significance and/or market demand that it might be worth the effort but the math doesn't seem to work in my opinion. Maybe I should just flip it as is or part it out and make a few bucks if that's even a possiblity--???
Again, given that this is all new to me I appreciate any advice that you all can provide. From what I understand EM are the easiest machines to work on, so maybe I should learn how to read a schematic and cut my teeth and grow a set . . . but I also know that I need be careful what I wish for--LOL!!

do NOT part it out... if you don't want to put the work into it, offer it back up for the 50 you paid for it, someone will take it off your hands rather quickly...

to be honest, if you are even asking this question, em's are not for you...

sorry to be blunt... but once a machine is parted out, it is gone forever, and i'm not fond of flippers...

owning em's isn't about "making money"... yes, grow a set...

#28 10 years ago

Restore it because you can, you owe that game that much, you don't have to make it a show piece. Go thru all the steppers and score reels. clean and tighten the stacks clean and polish the playfield. That only costs you some time and effort !
After you have done all of this and have got it up and running play the heck out of it for a few weeks and decide if you want to do a more costly restoration on the machine. If not, sell it for a small profit and have gained the experience and Joy of bringing a dead machine back to the land of the living.

Friends don't let friends part out complete games. fix it or throw it back whole.

May 2c

Brian Lenker
Madison hts, MI
586-344-0721

#29 10 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

do NOT part it out... if you don't want to put the work into it, offer it back up for the 50 you paid for it, someone will take it off your hands rather quickly...

I have to agree ^^
If your looking just to flip it and not sure if the Roi is gonna make it worthwhile,then flip now for a little more than what you have in it(gas/$50)and save yourself some grief.
Unless you want to keep it and refurb it and use that to get experience with it, that i could see.
Also could sell it after refurbing it and hope for the best,keep in mind it could be a gain or a loss.
But I wouldnt part it out unless it had a missing backglass or really damaged playfield and other high $$ parts needing replacement.

#30 10 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

I think some have had success with brake cleaner.

Quoted from ccotenj:

have you had any luck with brake cleaner on legs?

Someone spray painted pot peace on the right side cabinet of the Sweet Sioux and i had success removing the blue colored spray with some Brake cleaner & wiping off with mechanic rags.

ccotenj for the legs have you ever used aircraft paint stripper? It works when other methods fail,available in brushable liquid or spray type.

#31 10 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

alex, have you had any luck with brake cleaner on legs? i tried it on a set, and basically got nowhere with it. i know some people swear by it, maybe i used it wrong...

I have never tried brake cleaner on legs. Is it a good rust remover. I usually paint them if they can be buffed out with some chrome polish and steel wool.

I'm not sure I see $175 in parts unless your going for all new bumper caps. It definitely needs some but you could hold off for now and maybe get some used ones if you keep your eye out. Ems don't generally take much more than sweat equity to get up and running. I can see it may be overwhelming if your plan is to do a full restore. But you don't have to go that route right away. It looks like most of them that I bring home. Likely has gummed up steppers and score reels. Maybe a burnt coil or two and some misadjusted switch. A rubber ring kit, couple boxes of bulbs and some flipper bushings are a good starting point. After getting it cleaned up and playing you can assess whether it's worth the investment to go all out on. Most of us em guys find the shopping out part fairly therapeutic. The journey is the reward as they say. If you find trying to fix it is more stress than fun you can always step back and sell it off. There is a great group of Em guys on here to help you if you stick it out. At this point you could definitely get your money back and then some without trouble. Ems aren't for everybody but you had enough interest to bring one home...and for $50 what do you have to lose.

Alex

#32 10 years ago

The brand i prefer, Kleenstrip
Warning not for the Cabinet paint removal ,just the metal legs.

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#33 10 years ago

i want to see more em owners... but i definitely do not want to see the disease that has infected the community of owners of *modern* machines be spread to the em world...

#34 10 years ago

Pretty much what they said. EM's are not money makers, they are fun players and projects for those with time and passion. If you are in it for the money just dump it now for someone else. It looks to be in pretty good shape to me.

#35 10 years ago

@pin-it...

i'll try the aircraft stuff... worth a shot... thanks...

@alex...

dunno on the rust removal part, although it has gotten it off of brakes for me before, but brakes aren't chrome... just saw that someone had success with it, so i decided to try it... most of the other recommended methods i've come across end up costing as much as a new set of legs, so i had bought new ones for the two machines that had really bad legs... i may just paint the ones i'm working on now, chrome cleaner and elbow grease got me nowhere on them (which is why i tried the brake cleaner)... one thing is for sure, brake cleaner is noxious stuff...

couldn't agree more with the rest of your post...

#36 10 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

do NOT part it out... if you don't want to put the work into it, offer it back up for the 50 you paid for it, someone will take it off your hands rather quickly...
to be honest, if you are even asking this question, em's are not for you...
sorry to be blunt... but once a machine is parted out, it is gone forever, and i'm not fond of flippers...
owning em's isn't about "making money"... yes, grow a set...

Sorry for apparently tripping your tilt . . . maybe you forgot the newbie part? I've been a collector of other stuff for over 35 years and have always been a purist, rarely ever redoing anything as I feel that destroys the collectible value. I'd MUCH rather have something that isn't perfect over an item that has been redone, especially by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

I question if this is beyond my capabilities, hence asking for advice from those who have been down this road. I learned long ago that there's no reason to reinvent the wheel . . . but realize as well that everyone has to start somewhere, which is pretty much where I am.

I not in this for profit--I just don't want to look back and have a machine that I've invested multiple hundreds of dollars in, as well as countless hours, that no one--including me--really cares much about. If it was a favorite from my youth then it would be a different story. It appears that this might be a fun game to play, but if you look it up you'll see that reviews are pretty limited, again making me wonder if anyone besides a left-coaster would ever be interested in this machine.

My time IS valuable. I spent two hours, a few gallons of gas and pissed off my wife in the process of chasing this thing down. You think that doesn't have value? If not then maybe there's a reason you have a cat pictured in your avatar . . .

#37 10 years ago

good luck...

#38 10 years ago

Alright, message received loud and clear. Lesson one learned, now moving on . . . I guess this cow's ear has the potential to be a silk purse.

Yes, the replacement bumper caps are nearly half the budget I mentioned. Good points on getting it up and running the way it is and going from there. I just realized that only three of the nine bumpers are active bumpers.

Something I CAN contribute--be careful with that Airline Stripper as it is VERY hot. You need to have some thick, chemical resistant gloves and DO NOT get any on your skin as it will burn the h-e-double toothpicks out of you--a lesson I DID learn the hard way unfortunately.

#39 10 years ago

It is a pretty color. Just paint a lightning bolt on the side and your set!

#40 10 years ago

SF is a decent multiplayer from this era.

If you can see your way to keeping it a whole game you'll get some worthy satisfaction from it.

Mike O.
Team-EM

#41 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

It is a pretty color. Just paint a lightning bolt on the side and your set!

LOL! A Tulsa Golden Hurricane logo would color coordinate as well . . . just doesn't fit the SF theme for some reason.

#42 10 years ago
Quoted from Tulsa_Times:

...making me wonder if anyone besides a left-coaster would ever be interested in this machine.

When I read the title of this thread, I was kicking myself for missing out on an apparently great deal in San Francisco (I didn't know such a game existed). Being a newbie myself, I'm not ready to take on such a project, but now I'm thinking I need this game on my "wish list" for no other reason than it depicts my City.

#43 10 years ago
Quoted from Tulsa_Times:

just doesn't fit the SF theme for some reason.

Theres got to be some way for the Bolts to get over on Frisco.

#44 10 years ago

I'm gradually working my way through cleaning her up. I've cleaned the score reels and all the contacts in the back box, blown out all the dust and have removed all the paint overspray. Seems to be doing a little more than when I first turned it on, but it appears that I either have a bad coil (as it's making a lot of noise and sparking quite a bit) or some contacts that aren't operating properly in the back box. I'm guessing that it's the coil, which is a M29-1100, but no one seems to have these is stock. Is it a problem to replace it with an M29-1000?

Thanks again for the advice.

#45 10 years ago

Unless the coil shows really obvious signs of a meltdown, it's almost never the coil. If it's activating (and subsequently stuck on and buzzing), then that suggests a stuck switch upstream from it that's controlling the logic.

An M29-1000 will have 100 fewer turns though, so will have less resistance and run hotter. Looks like some used M29-1100 are available though:

http://user.xmission.com/~daina/parts/parts_for_sale.html

(search for 1100).

#46 10 years ago

Great, I'll check that out--thanks!

#47 10 years ago

I took a look tonight and nothing up the line in the back box appeared to be obviously out of order/place. I'm still waiting on the schematic I ordered to arrive, though I'm not sure it will help ME much--lol!

The coil/relay that's acting up is the top one pictured here, which is labeled Left Advance Relay and from what I can see everything looks just like the one below it, which is marked Right Advance Relay. So I thought I'd take a look inside the machine to see if anything was obviously out of place. The one thing I noticed was that the sleeve and shaft out of the coil mounted at the back left of the cabinet is COMPLETELY missing--could this possibly be what is causing this issue? I'm assuming that if it's not what's causing this problem, that it is causing something else--possibly yet to be discovered. I don't see on the part sites where the shafts are offered for sale. Any help here would be appreciated.

More to follow . . .

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#48 10 years ago

It was way too nice out in the garage tonight to hang it up at this point, so being stumped on issue I did what I'd told myself that I wasn't going to do--work on cosmetic issue before finding out if the mechanical issues could be resolved.

I know there's a problem with the kick out hole pictured below. Apparently one of the previous owners worked around this problem by just taping over it with some duct tape . . . My question is this--would it be o.k. to use Goo-Gone on the playfield to remove the leftover tape adhesive? I searched Goo-Gone and didn't find anything on this issue.

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#49 10 years ago

I took all of the easy pieces off of the field, including the metal cover that goes over the ball return and plunger. I'm glad that I did as this was about the sixth dirt-dobber nest that I removed and wouldn't have ever guessed it was there . . .

Yep, she's still just a bit dirty!!

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#50 10 years ago

You have the Knocker Coil on the left side of the picture in the Cabinet and the other Coil actuates the 5 inch Bell that you are missing. Getting a new coil, Sleeve, and Plunger for the Bell can be found at PBR. Finding a 5 inch Bell on the other hand is a bit more tricky.

I would put the word out you need one in the Pinside Market section and keep an eye out on Ebay for one.

As it is this would not be causing an electrical difficulties with your machine, just no sound from the 5 inch Bell.

Ken

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