(Topic ID: 245578)

Newbie Advice!


By Lobo2k

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by Lobo2k
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 3 months ago

    Hey guys, just joined the site today... Grew up with a few games (when I was real young we had two real shit ones called like Monte Carlo or some shit like that) and then when my parents split my dad splurged on an actual machine and got "Freefall" by Gottlieb I think and Star Trek. Man, so much fun... Anyways fast forward 20 years later and I have my own teens and I've decided I miss the hobby enough to grab a game or two myself. Maybe even start a collection!

    Anyways I have a few simple questions if hope to get some input on before buying.

    1). Are newer games worth the sticker generally? Looking at the top 100 quite a few seen a lot more recent..

    2). On that note, are new ones ever released that are stinkers? I look at the Beatles playfield for example and it looks insanely simplistic.... Reading some reviewers comments seemed to confirm my suspicions

    3). Do machines generally hold value? I'm asking because I'm thinking of going big on a limited (looking at batman 66, Ghostbusters, Deadpool or Metallica). In the marketplace ppl generally seem to be asking close to MSRP from what I can tell ... Does that affect reality?

    I've also noticed a lot of games ppl ask more than original MSRP ... Provided they are kept in good shape do a lot of these go up?

    Anyways ya, lol, pure newbie questions I know lol thanks guys hope y'all are friendly, just wondering about point of views or there.... Would be nice to know I could buy a nice limited, play it for a bit and still have an asset

    Cheers

    #2 3 months ago

    If your jumping right in and looking at spending 7k+, my advice is get out and play. Find some beercades, bars, game rooms, or any machine anywhere. Find what you like. Dont go on what people say is the best or a must have. If you like metallica, acdc, or rock bands in general, start looking there. Plenty of movie, TV, comic book themes to look at also. With the price range you are willing to start with, there isnt too many games out of your budget.
    Next, find a trust worthy tech. This is where playing out in the wild really helps. Start talking with people. See who is the go to guy in your area. See who people say who you need to avoid.
    Good luck. Pins can be very addictive.

    I wouldn't count on any game holding its value or going up anymore. If you can pick up a new game, beat on it for a couple months, then move on to something else and only lose a few hundred, I think that's a win.

    #3 3 months ago

    That's a lot. We (wife and I) have had machines for over 25yrs. The first game I bought in 1994 was a Party Zone which I still have today. Probably been through 20 over the years. I am not into turning them over every few months. I tend to take time and really know as much as possible about the game(s) before buying so I end up keeping them.

    Newer: may be more reliable and nicer
    Older: never know, there are many great ones and many bad

    Several good distributors on Pinside, look in the market

    I have no opinion on the values, they are what someone is asking or someone may pay. I don't turn games.

    The moral here is, we are all different and what I like you may not and vice-versa.

    My advise, get a couple affordable used newer you enjoy and go from there.

    Best of luck

    #4 3 months ago

    Welcome my friend !

    1, 2, 3 - yes or no.

    Try and play any game you are considering. Locally or go to shows. Learn all you can.

    LTG : )

    #5 3 months ago

    If you buy a BRAND NEW game, open it, play it and sell it you should expect to lose money depending on resale time and condition and title desirability and availability... but buy one generation down (home used one owner) and let them take the hit and you can usually get out right around where you got in.

    If I was you... I’d buy a nice example of something you have fond memories of and build from there.

    #6 3 months ago

    Welcome to the hobby!

    Used pins hold their value very well. From a resale standpoint you are generally better off buying used. So long as you don't overpay, which is another important topic, you can often enjoy a used pin until you're bored of it and resell it for the same price. No further depreciation. Pretty amazing.

    From a reliability standpoint you are generally better off buying new. However, if you buy a used pin from someone who took good care of it, maintained it well, replaced any worn out components, and has it working and playing 100% at time of sale then that's a pretty safe bet.

    No need to splurge on Limited Editions. Those are generally for high end collectors only who are accustomed to throwing around lots of money in the hobby. A big markup for the same exact game except maybe some unnecessary cosmetic bling and a little numbered plaque. These do not hold their value any better than the unlimited editions. Often times they depreciate the most.

    Beware of overpaying. Easily more than half of the pins for sale are priced well beyond their actual value. These are greedy sellers fishing for newbs who don't know better, or for someone desperate for that particular title. Research the value prior to contacting any sellers. And by research I don't mean looking at Asking Prices. You need to look at sold prices from recent sales, or ask for advice on this forum, or at minimum look at the splash page for the pin on Pinside which shows the Estimated Value. Step 1 is knowing the average value of a particular pin. Step 2 is understanding that values vary based on condition. Do your homework and exercise some patience and you can avoid getting ripped off.

    New pins aren't necessarily any better than older pins. Condition-wise they will be better. Gameplay-wise not necessarily. Many of us have favorite eras such as early 80's, late 80's, 90's, etc and prefer those over new pins, while others prefer the new stuff. Different strokes for different folks. Best way to learn what you like is to find some pinball locations near you and go play. You can also see if any collectors live nearby and ask for an invite.

    I suggest maybe taking a gander at the Top 100-150 rated pins on this site, make a list of the ones that appeal to you and go from there. Travel to the next major pinball show in your area and many of those pins will be there. If you can't locate a particular pin you can look it up on Youtube and watch some gameplay video to at least get a feel for it.

    Beware of buying and shipping sight-unseen until you are more experienced. Best to either buy new or buy used from a good collector within driving distance.

    Happy hunting!

    #7 3 months ago

    Pins generally hold thier value if periodically cleaned and properly maintained. This does not apply to NIB games. Similar to driving a new car off the lot, they can lose significant value upon opening and playing of the machine. Other factors such as availability can increase the value.

    #8 3 months ago
    Quoted from Lobo2k:

    Hey guys, just joined the site today... Grew up with a few games (when I was real young we had two real shit ones called like Monte Carlo or some shit like that) and then when my parents split my dad splurged on an actual machine and got "Freefall" by Gottlieb I think and Star Trek. Man, so much fun... Anyways fast forward 20 years later and I have my own teens and I've decided I miss the hobby enough to grab a game or two myself. Maybe even start a collection!
    Anyways I have a few simple questions if hope to get some input on before buying.
    1). Are newer games worth the sticker generally? Looking at the top 100 quite a few seen a lot more recent..
    2). On that note, are new ones ever released that are stinkers? I look at the Beatles playfield for example and it looks insanely simplistic.... Reading some reviewers comments seemed to confirm my suspicions
    3). Do machines generally hold value? I'm asking because I'm thinking of going big on a limited (looking at batman 66, Ghostbusters, Deadpool or Metallica). In the marketplace ppl generally seem to be asking close to MSRP from what I can tell ... Does that affect reality?
    I've also noticed a lot of games ppl ask more than original MSRP ... Provided they are kept in good shape do a lot of these go up?
    Anyways ya, lol, pure newbie questions I know lol thanks guys hope y'all are friendly, just wondering about point of views or there.... Would be nice to know I could buy a nice limited, play it for a bit and still have an asset
    Cheers

    1). Are newer games worth the sticker generally? NIB (new in the box) games lose value immediately. I recommend buying something at least 1 year old. That gives time for depreciation and all the bugs to be worked out.
    Go out and play as many games as possible. Only you can truly answer this question. If you find out you like EM games, you could buy 15 or more for the price of one newer game.

    2). On that note, are new ones ever released that are stinkers?
    I don't think many newer games are truly "stinkers," but there are some you might not care for as much. I don't like the Beatles pin, primus, TNA, or star wars very much. Would i play them? Yes. Would i pay $5000 or more for them? No way.

    3). Do machines generally hold value?

    Older games hold their value very well. Brand new games typcally drop and stabilize after a year. Games regarded as top pins (i would say generally in the top 150) tend to sell easily and quickly at good values.

    4) I've also noticed a lot of games ppl ask more than original MSRP ... Provided they are kept in good shape do a lot of these go up?

    Over time they tend to trend upwards, but this isnt Google stock. Don't expect them to continually climb up forever. Get a good quality pin at a good price and enjoy. If you know what to get and how much to pay, you should at least break even.

    As many have said, you need to do a deep search into what games you like. Go to all your local barcades, bowling alleys, pool halls, etc and play as many pibs as you can. Play in local tournaments and leagues. Go to a pinball show if you are able. Find out what you are most interested in.

    #9 3 months ago

    lobo2k I'm also a newbie in a similar situation and about to start my collection. Here's what I've noticed doing some pretty heavy research this past week:

    -Some newer used pins -are- being sold at or over MSRP, but most aren't. And seeing as used selling for more than new generally defies logic, I don't think that's a sustainable market. I think if you remove yourself from the hype and ask yourself what you're really getting compared to what's available you can avoid any potential price bubble.
    -I think the new games look awesome but there are too many great used games to just default to a sweet New Premium. Like everyone else said: get out and play a ton. I've played the new Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (Pro) and I'd rather play a 1994 World Cup Soccer . Everyone's tastes are so different!

    A big ah-ha for me has been maintenance. As a newbie it's not obvious how much work goes into just keeping things running let alone tweaked to run smooth. I have three of blake 's pins stored at my house and I can see how the gameplay is changing over even a few months. Make sure you have a plan for that. Good luck and have fun!

    #10 3 months ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    Beware of buying and shipping sight-unseen until you are more experienced. Best to either buy new or buy used from a good collector within driving distance.

    Great advice!

    #11 3 months ago
    Quoted from Lobo2k:

    Anyways I have a few simple questions if hope to get some input on before buying.
    1). Are newer games worth the sticker generally? Looking at the top 100 quite a few seen a lot more recent..

    I think yes. Everyone has different tastes so you need to play and decide yourself but newer games can have great rules and great lighting/sound effects that blow older games away.

    2). On that note, are new ones ever released that are stinkers? I look at the Beatles playfield for example and it looks insanely simplistic.... Reading some reviewers comments seemed to confirm my suspicions

    Some can be worse than others. I don't think Beatles is bad, don't judge a book by it's cover. Unless you can play it and decide for yourself Beatles is very fun and also a game like TNA look simple but more than meets the eye.

    Stinker maybe WWE but can't say myself because I have yet to play. I have probably played 90% of the pins made in the last 10 years. I think 20% are GREAT. 40% are very good and 20% are good and 20% are so-so.

    3). Do machines generally hold value? I'm asking because I'm thinking of going big on a limited (looking at batman 66, Ghostbusters, Deadpool or Metallica). In the marketplace ppl generally seem to be asking close to MSRP from what I can tell ... Does that affect reality?
    I've also noticed a lot of games ppl ask more than original MSRP ... Provided they are kept in good shape do a lot of these go up?

    people can ask whatever they want doesn't mean it sells at that price, in general most games would sell for less than they sold for new. For example I got a ST premium 6 months old cost me $5700 when it was new at $6700 (?) and the pin looks as good as new. Now some of the for sale games might have mods added like color DMD which adds value. I think (in general) I'd like to save $500-1000 when I buy a used pin. If its much less than $500 why bother buying used when you can get new with a full warranty and less plays. (unless you are also getting serious mods).

    #12 3 months ago

    I won't presume to say my advice is any better than anyone else but if you ask me I'll say any of these pin are very good and worth the coin.

    (no particular order)

    AFM remake
    Spider Man
    Iron Man
    Tron
    Metallica
    The Walking Dead
    Dialed In
    TNA
    Wizard of Oz
    Star Trek

    and others

    #13 3 months ago

    Visit House of Targ in Ottawa if you haven't already (and use the Pinside map to find other locations).

    Your local enthusiast site is https://www.maaca.org

    Find out about the upcoming Ottawa show at http://www.ottawapinball.com/

    You can go to the Player1 showroom in Montreal, there are no dealers in Ottawa.

    #14 3 months ago

    Beware... They multiply.

    #15 3 months ago
    Quoted from bayoubilly70:

    Beware... They multiply.

    ^ +1 for this....buy a bigger house....pins tend to multiply! Welcome to the addiction!

    #16 3 months ago

    So as a relative newbie (bought my first pin 3 years ago), here is the best advice I could give you (several others have mentioned it). When I started, I looked at the top 100 in detail, picked about 10 machines that appealed to me most, then read the owners forums and watched every video I could find on the 10. Fortunately, I live in Fort Worth, TX and the Texas Pinball Festival was just a couple of months away and about 45 minutes from my house. I went to TPF with the goal of playing all 10 pins on my list, which I did, and of course I played dozens of other machines. You know what happened? I think I dropped 8 of the pins off my top 10 and replaced them with games I either overlooked or didn't think appealed to me.

    While there is value to reading the opinions of others, watching videos, etc., there is nothing that compares to actually playing the games yourself to see what you like. Personally, I own two pins now, and am not the type to turn them over (quite the opposite, I keep them and mod them out). Pins can be expensive (low $2K for less popular DMD games to over $10K for brand new pins), so it is worth taking some time and spending a little money if you need to travel to an area show or whatever the best pinball arcade/barcade is in your area.

    Pinside has proven to be a valuable resource since I've joined. I enjoy the common hobby interests, getting to see what others do to customize their machines, and taking advantage of the experience and knowledge of those who've been in the hobby far longer than I have.

    #17 3 months ago

    Each of us is different, and what may seem great to you might be different from what the ratings say. My advice is to go ahead and look at ratings and others’ opinions, but don’t let that dictate your choices. There are some fun sleepers out there that may become your favorites. Welcome to the hobby!

    #18 3 months ago

    I may be old school in my thinking but I feel it's best to start with an early solid state from Bally or Stern. So many good choices. Just find a good working pin from 77-84. Or you could go with a Williams Space Shuttle or a System 11 like High Speed or Pinbot. Take your lumps learning on a cheap game.

    1 week later
    #19 3 months ago

    Wow guys thanks for the great advice!! I posted this and actually thought no one commented (the only forum I'm on that is similar to this notifies me of replies....didn't see the notification on this one)

    I have been doing what was said by all you and great advice. I found an app that lists all the machines in the area and have played them all. I have a serious addiction to Sopranos, Deadpool, Elvira Party and Road Show. There would probably be a much larger list if there were more machines available lol - there's only about 30 within an hour of my house. Like mentioned above, everyone is different... like my buddy loves Star Wars I can't stand it. I do know I'm not a fan of the older ones. Probably Pinbot is about the oldest I'll go.

    Thanks for the great advice.... thinking of getting Deadpool Limited NIB but man it's pricey. Was offered a Pirates of the Carribean for 7500 Canadian. Seems a bit high, but it's a friend and he'll let me do installments which is nice.

    And ya...... just cleared a big area in the basement

    Thanks again everyone, hopefully I get my first pin soon!

    #20 3 months ago

    The old Stern Pirates of the C that is. I've never played it actually, excited to go to his house and try it.

    #21 3 months ago
    Quoted from Lobo2k:

    The old Stern Pirates of the C that is. I've never played it actually, excited to go to his house and try it.

    The (old) Stern Pirates is a great pin, but not at $7500 canadian which is about $5800 US. I just picked one up for $3600 US. It is a super fun pin and great for beginners.

    #22 3 months ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    The (old) Stern Pirates is a great pin, but not at $7500 canadian which is about $5800 US. I just picked one up for $3600 US. It is a super fun pin and great for beginners.

    Ya I agree (it's high).. Its uncirculated orig owner, but still seems high. I showed him Pinside prices and he showed me some Ebay asking prices (which were all 7500 USD). So looks like we are at an impasse lol.

    Not only that but he's 5 hours away and would want me to come pick it up as he's never shipped one....

    There's really not much in Canada vs the States....that's another thing

    #23 3 months ago
    Quoted from Lobo2k:

    Was offered a Pirates of the Carribean for 7500 Canadian. Seems a bit high, but it's a friend and he'll let me do installments which is nice.

    he's no friend, he's taking advantage of you. I love Potc and have owned it for 12 years but it's worth $5000 (US).

    I just did the conveston and $7.5K (Can) = $5744 (US).

    Should have Color DMD too if it doesn't then you're looking at another $550 (Can) to buy that.

    #24 3 months ago

    OP agree with rai on this ... for reference I sold a really nice POTC for 4500 not too long ago that was in very nice condition. It had LEDs, Matthew's Guard and a ColorDMD in it. Here is a url to my listing https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/70952

    Show your "friend" the archive listing on Pinside for what machines really sold for as opposed to what people are trying to sell them for on eBay! Or at least show him the completed listings on eBay that shows what machines sold for.

    #25 3 months ago

    Asking price means “not sold”. On eBay you should be able to view previously sold items and see what kind of deals have actually closed. Assuming there are some. That’s where pinside pricing comes from. Actual deals, not what people wish their machines would sell for.

    #26 3 months ago
    Quoted from Lobo2k:

    I showed him Pinside prices and he showed me some Ebay asking prices (which were all 7500 USD).

    Ask him to show you eBay sold prices. Until they are sold the price isn’t real.

    #27 3 months ago

    Asking prices for pins on ebay are complete fantasy prices. Like talking about unicorns at a horse racing track. No relation to reality.

    #28 3 months ago

    I would wait for a big show where you have a couple hundred pins to play and possibly buy and go from there. Hold off on buying anything. I know the itch is there but it’s an itch that will never be scratched because you’ll always want more.

    #29 3 months ago

    People could ask $65,000 for that game, but it doesn’t mean it’s worth $65,000.

    #30 3 months ago
    Quoted from Murphdom:

    I would wait for a big show where you have a couple hundred pins to play and possibly buy and go from there. Hold off on buying anything.

    Good advice.

    #31 3 months ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    So as a relative newbie (bought my first pin 3 years ago), here is the best advice I could give you (several others have mentioned it). When I started, I looked at the top 100 in detail, picked about 10 machines that appealed to me most, then read the owners forums and watched every video I could find on the 10. Fortunately, I live in Fort Worth, TX and the Texas Pinball Festival was just a couple of months away and about 45 minutes from my house. I went to TPF with the goal of playing all 10 pins on my list, which I did, and of course I played dozens of other machines. You know what happened? I think I dropped 8 of the pins off my top 10 and replaced them with games I either overlooked or didn't think appealed to me.
    While there is value to reading the opinions of others, watching videos, etc., there is nothing that compares to actually playing the games yourself to see what you like.

    I went through the same exact thing. I watched videos, read reviews, and played games on Pinball Arcade. Just about all the games I thought I wanted didn't appeal to me nearly as much after I actually played them. Games I had no opinions on and just walked up to and played became my favorite games. Themes can be very deceiving. They can make you think a game is good or bad before you even pull the plunger. Best to play a game many times before you decide to buy. Most new games that you have never played are really fun the first handful of games. Once you get past that and start paying attention to the rules you start to see a game's true colors.

    #32 3 months ago
    Quoted from rai:

    he's no friend, he's taking advantage of you. I love Potc and have owned it for 12 years but it's worth $5000 (US).
    I just did the conveston and $7.5K (Can) = $5744 (US).
    Should have Color DMD too if it doesn't then you're looking at another $550 (Can) to buy that.

    Well that's not too too bad, like I said earlier pins are harder to come by up here! The other thing too I didn't mention (or maybe did, but forget) is it's a HUO machine. He's either the original owner or the second. It's minty from the pics I've seen and (according to him) hardly played. Hardly maitained I would imagine too... At any rate, I'm probably holding off on POTC since I've yet to even play it. There's a 2 day show in Ottawa September 21/22, hoping there will be some Stern / JJP reps...the sponsors are the nearest distributor, I visited their showroom and while playing for 5 hours was fun I would still like to consume a bit more..... although I'm narrowing it down quite a bit!

    #33 3 months ago

    So I've played quite a bit in the last 2 months....

    Elvira Party Monsters (really like this one for an old title!)
    Road Show (love this too but looking at a new one prob, also I think it would get old quick)
    Ghostbusters (fun but hated some of the sound, like insane loud screaming despite volume being down)
    Black Knight old
    Black Knight new
    Octoberfest
    Houdini
    Wrestlemania (for the $ guy was asking I'm considering!)
    Stargate
    Starship Troopers
    Iron Maiden
    Sopranos (love)
    Simpsons Data East
    Star Wars (hate)
    Walking Dead
    Monster Bash (new ed)
    Attack from Mars (new ed)
    ... and a bunch more I can't think of off the top of my head...

    Played everything above at least 20x.... the winners so far are... Deadpool and Metallica. Man, tough choice.... anyone have input? I read (here) the Deadpool / Metallica thread, or a lot of it, but wondering if anyone has some input as far as which one is harder / has more to offer in that respect. I find both themes super fun. One thing I like (about DP) is it would be going in my man cave and I have a lot of comic book stuff already.... but Metallica is wicked too... sigh. Maybe I should just get both. Anyone know a good divorce attorney?

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