(Topic ID: 118147)

New WPPR system is out

By ryanwanger

9 years ago


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  • 242 posts
  • 46 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by desertT1
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    #31 9 years ago
    Quoted from harmon1728:

    Saw this rule....
    "The changes will NOT be retroactive: the original WPPR point values for events prior to 2015, and the combination of Main/Side tourneys and Periodic tourneys into single line items for World Ranking consideration will remain unchanged."
    Why did you end up changing this rule? All the events prior to 2015 were split...

    It was becoming a huge pain in the butt trying to maintain both systems. The one thing I clearly didn't estimate was the impact the change had to the back end systems.

    Once we started doing some test builds, it was realized that keeping both systems would not only make the rebuild process complicated and slower, it also created some issues with out to effectively present this data to the users.

    #32 9 years ago
    Quoted from alveolus:

    Is anyone having trouble with the new "submit new tournament" form? I'm getting an error every time I try.

    Please shoot a message about your error and maybe a screenshot to [email protected].

    We have been fixing some bugs and I had to recycle the caching engine a few times, so you might have just done it at the wrong moment. We've been flooded with results, so I know it's working for most

    1 month later
    #64 9 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Should you guys really be twiddling with the rules and changing results *as* the season progresses? I understand changing rules for future tournaments, but arbitrarily changing the results of something that already happened might decrease confidence in the system.

    Given that the rankings changes for this year ventured into new territory (judging tournament quality), it's understandable that some tweaks occur during the year. Despite multiple people looking into the new system and attempting to find weaknesses, people find a way. It's not unreasonable to swiftly correct sooner rather than later where it could then affect the rankings in a very negative manner.

    It's like software -- would you rather Microsoft not plug in any holes until the next major release of their products?

    #71 9 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Haha yep Seriously, I've kinda been waiting for things to be figured out before making any kind of real attempt to get points. Tournament attendance costs time and money, and when you're aiming at a moving target, it.. kinda feels like playing Space Mission. But I digress. Right now, I play in tournaments solely for fun, and when the points thing settles down and becomes "set", I'll start playing for those as well. Until then, it costs too much to play for points that can disappear or change on a future rule change.

    Oh come on larry, you have never been the type that even seeks out tournaments. Competitive - absolutely Seeks out tournaments to play? Not in the 12 years I've known ya!

    If the tournaments themselves haven't encouraged you to play in them, no rankings system will.

    Plus you act like our changes create radical differences in the rankings. They don't.

    Quoted from metallik:

    Exactly... "systems" .. y'all create complex systems and fiddle with things too often and too much. How many times has the system been revised over those nine years?

    - 4 Major Edits: Versions 2 thru 5, all done at the start of their respective years so it wouldn't affect the World Championship qualification.
    - 6 or 7 minor changes, counting this year, mainly to plug exploits or other issues that have been uncovered. None of these changes really had a significant impact on someone's points but are done to prevent abusing things.

    We make changes to try to improve the system. Guess what? Nearly every rankings system goes thru these sort of things. F me, League of Legends replaced their entire system recently! (and holy crap was that change received negativity). Microsoft Trueskill is on version 4.3.

    We discover new things, we try new things, we adapt. Keeping a system that is static -- especially one trying to cover something like pinball is a receipt that will allow it to fail. Pinbal tournaments are complex, with huge variety of formats, on a huge variety of games, with a huge variety of players. Please give me a X +Y = Z calculate that fits that requirement!

    #129 9 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    5.1 is a step back (not the end of the world) as new players are not treated fairly in their respective value.

    Many rankings/ratings systems do this in some fashion, since the new player is basically a unknown variable in the system.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    This to me does not fit a logical assumption, esp with a base of zero and for 5 events. In WI, it will take a new players likely 6-8months before they add to the value, yet they can win at any point.
    I understand there are limitations to the current system and algorithm, but please don't let that constraint make the decision.

    They will still get points, it's just that their overall value to the tournament isn't as good as it previously was. My parents, who have flipped 3 games in their life shouldn't be valued the same as someone who has been playing for 10 years though. We already do this in some aspects of the formula, this is just applying it in another spot.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Like Steve Ritchie says if 2 respected people tell you it sucks then it probably sucks. I know that is in regards to pinball design, but I think it is applicable here also. We have seen quite a few of the more active organizers say that they feel it needs some fine tuning. To me that speaks volumes
    cheers

    Please be aware that decisions are not made lightly and before they are even posted to here they have been bounced off many people internally include the country directors. Hit me up sometime at Expo and I'll talk your ear off for hours on why we've done some of the things we've done.

    But like anything in pinball, some like it, some hate it and we can only take all the input and go with what we feel is right.

    #130 9 years ago
    Quoted from TaylorVA:

    How does preventing an exploit stop the growth of pinball? Allowing inflated events is more of a detriment IMO and renders the current system as useless unless others decide to utilize the same exploits.

    This is the key thing about the .1 changes and any mid year changes that have ever been done. We're not doing this screw with people

    Also consider this: We are trying to maintain a system that allows competitive pinball to enjoy the use of many tournament formats that have many, many permutations. This, along with some other reasons, makes the system somewhat complex (unfortunately) and also opens the doors up for exploits. The day will most likely come where the IFPA will stop endorsing some tournaments (my personal opinion) due to their format because it's impossible to create something that covers everything fairly.

    My league just went from having some value to being absolutely worthless under the current system in regards to qualifying for the SCS.

    Sorry

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