(Topic ID: 118147)

New WPPR system is out

By ryanwanger

9 years ago


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  • 242 posts
  • 46 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by desertT1
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    #10 9 years ago
    Quoted from harmon1728:

    Saw this rule....
    "The changes will NOT be retroactive: the original WPPR point values for events prior to 2015, and the combination of Main/Side tourneys and Periodic tourneys into single line items for World Ranking consideration will remain unchanged."
    Why did you end up changing this rule? All the events prior to 2015 were split...

    Monthlies (for example) used to be under a single line item. Now, they are each their own line item. It looked more impressive when I had a few points under a single item, now I have many items with sub-1 point awards. Not as impressive.

    Fortunately, a few of those will be knocked off as soon as results from this past weekend go live. I'm also missing an event from mid Jan, but that should get fixed as soon as the guy who ran it sees it's missing from his list. Probably forgot to approve the email button, I've done that too.

    #16 9 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    I propose we all start at zero.

    I just did that last year, I don't wanna do it again.

    I see what you are saying though. But, my state rank is more important to me than my world rank. At some point that will change, but for now I'm heavy in-state with hopes to travel a little this year.

    #18 9 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    I was just joking.

    I know, all in good fun. I'm just happy to see results for 2015 showing up. Hopefully the 2015 SCS pages will go live soon.

    #30 9 years ago
    Quoted from alveolus:

    Is anyone having trouble with the new "submit new tournament" form? I'm getting an error every time I try.

    The only error I ever had was trying to submit for an event that only had 2 players show up. Christmas Eve and a typical player count of 5, so not overly shocking. Josh said the system doesn't like 2 players, but we got it figured out.

    1 month later
    #117 8 years ago

    I appreciate the efforts going into preventing abuse of the system. I understand that those abuses can happen no matter what system is in place. If I tried to pull the crap that is listed in the examples my guys (and gals) would call me on it for sure. The funny thing is that we have run into the opposite in the past where we started as a best of 5 and had to do 3 in the finals because we were going to have the power turned off. I have the timing pretty well down for the events I run and we can ask for an extra 15 minutes if it really comes down to it.

    As to the complaining about new player not counting for a while, do they really care? New players in anything I put on only know what I tell them unless they research for themselves. If I tell them that they don't add points for 3 or 5 events because is the way it is, what is the damage?

    I can track any event I put on as a series on a spreadsheet an embed it into a web site. Shoot, that is what I do for TPL. I submit events to IFPA because there are players that want it, myself included. Personally, I don't really care what my intl ranking is, but my state ranking is important to me. Bringing in new local players helps that, and if they don't add anything for a little while, everyone else is impacted the same way.

    #144 8 years ago
    Quoted from drgnlair:

    For a league could we summit the results ever month.

    I do for the Tucson Pinball League.

    IFPA's league submission area isn't really set up for that, so Josh had me submit events as if they were any other event, but they are categorized as "League" like you would also have "Main Event" in the submission form.

    #156 8 years ago

    Out of curiosity, could a template approach be looked at for events? For example. Tomorrow I have a bi-weekly event. Average player count is 5. When I submit for event approval, I could say what the plan is. Best of 3, double elim. When I fill out the results, it will see that there were 4, or 5, or 9 players and figure out the proper number of meaningful games. Each option could have a little blurb about how it is supposed to run, in case the TD didn't know about this format.

    It would be a little work on the front end, but would provide a list of approved formats. Anything outside of that would have to get approval through a 'custom' dropdown and explination of how it would run. I bet with the help of brakelope, you could even offer ranges of how long different styles take to run with 2-4/5-8/9-16/16-32/32+ players based off of past events. If nothing else, you could get a reasonable ballpark.

    #160 8 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    The biggest problem we've seen are the little tweaks done to 'common' formats.
    The best tool we have to help is here:
    http://www.ifpapinball.com/tgpguide
    Originally the plan was to try and have a more detailed questionnaire that would lead you down a rabbit hole towards getting the count right, but there's simply too many formats counting in the potential little tweaks for it to be worth the effort to try and implement.
    At some point there is a fear that we'll have to get to a place where we simply have a list of approved formats, and if you don't pick one of them we simply won't endorse the tournament for WPPR points period. I'm hoping to push that off to a future where all restaurants are Taco Bell by that point

    Understandable. Maybe a hybrid? With you getting ~6.5+ event submissions a day (2464 sanctioned events quoted in post 146) knocking that down a little by having a template of auto-approved styles might take some of the load off of you. Styles and parameters (best of 3/5/7 up to whatever seems reasonable) would be set up so you can't say double elim, bracket, no qualifying, best of 101, but you could say double elim, bracket, no qualifying, best of 3.

    If a TD wanted something less 'boring', it would have to go through you.

    Or, have the system remember what a TD has submitted for in the past and have that be an option to them so they can just pick it and it is approved without as much interface with you.

    I'm fine with the submission process as is, but that doesn't mean you can't look at ways to take some of the workload off of you for repeated event types.

    #162 8 years ago

    No driving for you. Kudos to everyone who keeps IFPA rolling. It's not the sole driver of growth in my area, but has played a major part.

    #178 8 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    Similar to, or rather than, cutting a league season into smaller chunks, what about assigning WPPR points to each league night, particularly if there are 25 meaningful games played each league night? This could address some of the point disparity as well as addressing the issue of league-only players needing many years worth of league attendance to achieve 20 events that count toward the full WPPR rating.

    You are saying the same thing as Josh is, just a different way.

    Does the league use IFPA results to track where members currently rank in the league? Probably not. You can run a league as a year long thing, but break up the submissions. I do it for every month, because that's as simple as taking that month's results and putting them into the form. Whatever you do, just know that anything past the 25 meaningful games is 'wasting' effort when it comes to how efficient you are making the league in terms of WPPRs.

    #184 8 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    How on earth can you achieve that? All of the leagues in this area play 5 meaningful games, and that takes several hours.

    That would be tough in a linear style event. We play 8 games typically and on location it takes ~2.5-3.5 hours, not including the 1 hour of warm-ups before the event. In a home setting, we have done it in ~2-2.5 hours because it's just us and so we aren't waiting as much.

    #234 8 years ago
    Quoted from Flamethrower:

    Part of the responsibility for this falls on the players to communicate to tournament organizers what they want. I have had many, many conversations with local players about event formats or potential event formats since the switch to WPPR 5.0, and they almost universally ask for formats that maximize the tournament value. I know other local organizers I've spoken with have gotten similar feedback.
    My personal preference for most of my events is to use formats that may not be worth as much but that get everyone a lot of play and don't last forever. But I keep hearing from players that this isn't what they want. Take Sunday's event, for example. By the time we reached playoffs, everyone was tired and probably crashing after all the sugar and it was clear that everyone would have been happier with those matches being best-of-1. But I had announced it as best-of-3 because of conversations with a bunch of players who were all insistent that the extra time is worth it to make the event grade out better.

    I get this too. For league everyone plays 8 machines, and that hopefully makes it fun for everyone. I get more enjoyment when I'm doing better, but 8 iffy scores is better than picking up dog mess. But, 8 machines doesn't grade out very high. The cumulative season standings are important to many, IFPA points as well, but for all of us, it's a good excuse to get out and play.

    For the head to head events I run, it's more geared towards winning and points. We average 1/3 the players, but 1/2 the points of a league event because of the format.

    Both are fun because I like to play, but some days (like last night for me) you can lose 4 games and be done for the night. The promised number of games in league is appealing to the more casual player.

    1 week later
    #242 8 years ago
    Quoted from fna_royam:

    SUPERleague looks Wong for many reasons other than good old Shirley. I wonder if the IFPA would consider putting a cap on points any single location can have in a year. One event per year was too few under 4.0 but with NewYork having so many people and the ability to just have one person play a game and then have that count towards the numbers for WPPR's the ranking will be heavily skewed towards large cities with WPPR hungry people raking up the points. i've heard some rumbling of SUPERleague changing to bi-monthly instead of monthly. At about 50 points per event that would be well over 1,000 WPPR's for that location. With a main and a side plus TVA under 4.0 a location could get about 50 points per year. Modern Pinball with the super league ( especially if they go bi-monthly ) could get around 1,200 points per year. Might not be technically feasible to do but a cap on points per location per year might be worth considering.

    This is why I look more at my state ranking compared to my world ranking. In Tucson we have a smaller population than Phoenix, but have a public location that is the best in the state. Points per city would be pretty evenly matched, but top players from PHX are coming down here for non-league events and tend to do well. That skews things a little by reducing the number of points available to locals, but since the guys coming down are already #1 and #2 in the state it's not really doing much more than expanding their lead. Everyone in both the Tucson area and the Phoenix area is pretty cool though, so it's a good time no matter what.

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