(Topic ID: 222797)

NEW! Williams System 3-7 In-Game Test ROMs

By pincoder

3 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 277 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by pincoder
  • Topic is favorited by 64 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which test ROMs have been the most useful for you?”

  • 01a-leds 2 votes
    13%
  • 01b-bus 0 votes
  • 01c-transceivers 0 votes
  • 02-blanking 0 votes
  • 03-cmos-IC19 4 votes
    25%
  • 04-ram-IC13 3 votes
    19%
  • 04-ram-IC16 3 votes
    19%
  • 05-displays 2 votes
    13%
  • 06-switches 1 vote
    6%
  • 07-bounce 0 votes
  • 08-interrupts 1 vote
    6%
  • 09-lamps 0 votes
  • 10-solenoids 0 votes
  • 11-sounds 0 votes
  • 12-sounds2 0 votes
  • clear_cmos 0 votes
  • edit_cmos 0 votes
  • init_cmos 0 votes

(Multiple choice - 16 votes by 5 Pinsiders)

This poll has been closed.

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#246 8 months ago

So I finally got a chance to put this adapter to use in my Tri Zone. First off its awesome! Game seems to pass all the test up to test 6 Switches. The expected result is 00 in the match credit but it sometimes starts at 00 then goes to like 64 and starts to count down to like 40 and stops. The other displays have a bunch of numbers in them. I am assuming that this means it is not passing the test. I have the MPU and Driver in the game right now. When I unplug 2j2 and 2j3 from the driver you would think this would cause it to 00 irregardless but it does the same thing. Other thing I notice is if I let the game run the test for a few minutes it seems to lock up?? Normal? I flip game off and back on and seems fine again. Maybe issue with game is related....???

#248 8 months ago
Quoted from pincoder:

First off, I'm glad to hear the adapter is found to be useful! Thanks for the feedback!

Yes!!! This is super useful! Testing these Williams games without this is a fools errand.

Quoted from pincoder:

It sounds exactly like you have issues with IC15, 16, 17, 18, and possibly IC11 (though I'm betting its somewhere in those first four). With 06-switches running, 2J2 and 2J3 disconnected you should get 00 in the match display and nothing anywhere else. Take a look at the numbers on the displays and map them to the switch matrix chart in your manual. See if any one entire row or column is shown. Chances are you'll see more than one row or column that will turn up. These rows and columns refer to the pins on 2J2 and 2J3.
The last section in 06-switches.txt ("ABOUT THE MATRIX SWITCHES (and PIA2)" will walk you through tracing signals so you can verify which ones actually need to be replaced, but in my experience IC15 and IC16 fail before IC16 and IC17 ever do. For the price, it's worth replacing all four anyway. Don't forget to install sockets first, it makes life easier.
Sometimes, when IC15 and IC16 fail they cause damage to the pins on IC11. If you replace IC15 through IC18 and the test still fails, you should replace IC11.
As for the lockup issue, that's a bit odd at this stage in the tests.. It may indicate a bad IC11 (or some other chip on the address/data bus), but the tests should continue to run even with a totally dead IC11. If you can properly remove IC11 without damaging it, you could try running the test with IC11 removed. In this case you should get "64" in the match display and numbers from 01 to 12 in all of the player displays - and it should still run forever.

My bet is 15. it was the chip that I suspected before I had the test ROMs. I socked IC16 and it has a new chip. I also socked IC18 and there is a new chip. Not to say those are not bad new chips. Right now ICI7 is the test ROM. so doubt that could be bad here? IC11 is also in a socket so pulling it should be easy.
I have read that having a known working driver board is imperative to this? I do not know if this driver is 100% I have to assume its not. So with that in mind could the driver board be the issue with my switch test failing? Ill try to post some pictures of the display data, it looks like just a bunch of random numbers to me.

Quoted from pincoder:

Sometimes, when IC15 and IC16 fail they cause damage to the pins on IC11. If you replace IC15 through IC18 and the test still fails, you should replace IC11.
As for the lockup issue, that's a bit odd at this stage in the tests.. It may indicate a bad IC11 (or some other chip on the address/data bus), but the tests should continue to run even with a totally dead IC11. If you can properly remove IC11 without damaging it, you could try running the test with IC11 removed. In this case you should get "64" in the match display and numbers from 01 to 12 in all of the player displays - and it should still run forever.
Do any of the other tests crash if left to run for extended periods? You could try 01a-leds and see if the blink-rate ever "stutters".

I noticed the test lock up on the display test. My computer is in the other room from the games. The hardest part about using the adapter is having to go back and forth to reference the test material. I had game running the display test. I came back after maybe 5 minutes and just one display had the numbers 621 in it the others had stopped. I just power cycled the machine and it started over.

#250 8 months ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Can I quote you on that? That's an excellent statement, thank you.

You can! lol Looks like there are people on here singing its praise that have vastly more knowledge than I do... But for the novice or hobbiest... they are the cats MEOW! As for the controller add me to the mailing list for release! I'm interested! I'm kinda old school I was just going to print the info and put it in a binder I could sit on the game or bench. Maybe I can load to an old tablet and save paper.

Quoted from pincoder:

The IC numbers I'm referring to are on the driver board. IC17 on the driver board is a 7406.
You don't need a working driver board for these tests.. that's what the tests are designed for.. However, some people have had driver boards that lock up the MPU board. When that happens you can still run MPU board tests with the driver board disconnected, and then reconnect as you go down the list of tests.
Yes, please post some pics of the numbers. At first glance they look seemingly random, but are in fact sequences of two digit numbers starting from the left side of P1 working to the right.. to the right side of P4. if you look at them you will see they are actually sorted from lowest to highest. Each two digit number corresponds to the switch number in the switch matrix. Numbers higher than 64 refer to switches outside the matrix. Those numbers are assigned by me and relate to other switches, like the DIP switches on the MPU board for example.
When the Pincoder Controller comes out, you won't have to run back and forth to your PC to look at the documentation, so hang in there
As for system hangs, disconnect the driver board and run the displays test again to see if it hangs. If so, perhaps you also have a power problem. Check rectifiers and caps etc with respect to the power supply. It's worth mentionting here too that cold solder joints can also be a culprit here, as can the 40 pin connector so if you haven't already, check for both.
If it doesn't hang with the driver board removed then you likely have issues with either the 40-pin connector, and/or the circuits related to the PIAs on the driver board.

Ok this makes sense. I can isolate by disconnecting the two boards and re run test on MPU if it passes problem is with driver board.

As for this... IC11 was one of the old AMI deals. I pulled it as I read they are notoriously bad. Game now shows 00 on match when 2j2 and 2j3 unplugged. I guess I should mention I changed the 40 pin interconnect out of the gate. I also have rebuilt the power supply and it is within spec or at least was when I stared testing... Yes I even put the headers in the correct way... Thanks Craig!!!! Thanks pincoder I am going to proceed with rest of test. As it appears IC11 could be a culprit in the software lock up ill report back on that too.

#252 8 months ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Down the road I'll be sending out a call for beta testers at a discounted rate - to everyone via email who has purchased the adapter, as well as creating an announcement here. No ETA on that yet either but it is a huge priority of mine - I just need to get some quality time to work on it.
Thank you to all who have encouraged me to get the controller done, and to all who have shown your support with your adapter purchases and your donations!
jt-pinball Thanks also for following up with your results. It helps others too!

Please do! I would love to help test out new stuff!

As for the Tri Zone... After replacing IC 11 I left the game running the led test for about an hour and it never stopped. I decided to just replace the other shit AMI PIA at IC10. I powered up the board on the bench and all seemed well. Put the board back in the game and totally dead. I chased my tail for a minute and then put the test Roms back in the game. Would not even pas led test. No cpu... Checked voltages and the power connector for the board had a bad pin. I have not had a chance to repin the whole game and plenty of connectors on this game are crap. Repined the power connectors and, THIS GAME NOW BOOTS TO ATTRACT!!!!! These test Roms and your help made this possible!!!! Thanks Craig! Thanks pincoder

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