(Topic ID: 222797)

NEW! Williams System 3-7 In-Game Test ROMs

By pincoder

4 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 298 posts
  • 45 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 52 days ago by pincoder
  • Topic is favorited by 71 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which test ROMs have been the most useful for you?”

  • 01a-leds 2 votes
    13%
  • 01b-bus 0 votes
  • 01c-transceivers 0 votes
  • 02-blanking 0 votes
  • 03-cmos-IC19 4 votes
    25%
  • 04-ram-IC13 3 votes
    19%
  • 04-ram-IC16 3 votes
    19%
  • 05-displays 2 votes
    13%
  • 06-switches 1 vote
    6%
  • 07-bounce 0 votes
  • 08-interrupts 1 vote
    6%
  • 09-lamps 0 votes
  • 10-solenoids 0 votes
  • 11-sounds 0 votes
  • 12-sounds2 0 votes
  • clear_cmos 0 votes
  • edit_cmos 0 votes
  • init_cmos 0 votes

(Multiple choice - 16 votes by 5 Pinsiders)

This poll has been closed.

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There are 298 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 6.
#251 1 year ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

As for the controller add me to the mailing list for release! I'm interested!

Down the road I'll be sending out a call for beta testers at a discounted rate - to everyone via email who has purchased the adapter, as well as creating an announcement here. No ETA on that yet either but it is a huge priority of mine - I just need to get some quality time to work on it.

Thank you to all who have encouraged me to get the controller done, and to all who have shown your support with your adapter purchases and your donations!

JT-Pinball Thanks also for following up with your results. It helps others too!

#252 1 year ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Down the road I'll be sending out a call for beta testers at a discounted rate - to everyone via email who has purchased the adapter, as well as creating an announcement here. No ETA on that yet either but it is a huge priority of mine - I just need to get some quality time to work on it.
Thank you to all who have encouraged me to get the controller done, and to all who have shown your support with your adapter purchases and your donations!
jt-pinball Thanks also for following up with your results. It helps others too!

Please do! I would love to help test out new stuff!

As for the Tri Zone... After replacing IC 11 I left the game running the led test for about an hour and it never stopped. I decided to just replace the other shit AMI PIA at IC10. I powered up the board on the bench and all seemed well. Put the board back in the game and totally dead. I chased my tail for a minute and then put the test Roms back in the game. Would not even pas led test. No cpu... Checked voltages and the power connector for the board had a bad pin. I have not had a chance to repin the whole game and plenty of connectors on this game are crap. Repined the power connectors and, THIS GAME NOW BOOTS TO ATTRACT!!!!! These test Roms and your help made this possible!!!! Thanks Craig! Thanks pincoder

#253 1 year ago

That's freaking awesome!! I love it when a game comes back to life! Nice work!!

I will definitely keep you posted on the beta testing

#254 1 year ago

Hi everyone, I got some new TDA2003 amplifier chips in today and thought it would be nice to include a free one with each adapter order from now until Feb 28th 2021. While supplies last of course. These are the amplifier chips used in Williams 3-7 games (and quite likely others, including other pinball manufacturers of the era).

You can find more about it here:

https://pincoder.ca/index.php/2021/02/09/free-tda2003-audio-amplifier-chip/

It never hurts to have a spare chip on hand!

If I'd had them sooner I would have included them with past orders - Sorry if you missed getting one. Orders that went out today already have the bonus amplifier chip included.

3 weeks later
#255 1 year ago

I got a new GQ-4X and a logic probe yesterday. I’ve been learning as I’m going. I’m working on a locked up MPU on a System 4 Flash. I’ve downloaded the roms and made it to test 2. Both leds appear to light but the test point doesn’t go high (I’m checking that at pin 37 on the interconect, is that correct?). PIA1 pin 4, pins 10, 9, and 8 on IC7, and pin 12 on IC23 are all not pulsing either. According to the notes for this test, I should replace PIA1, IC7, and Q5. Am I reading that right?

The 40 pin connector is new. The board has been converted to three ROMs and was working and then all of a sudden it wasn't as far as I've been told. Occasionally, it will go into a really weak attract mode and will start a game but even when it does, only some of the feature lights light. Then I think it tilts and ends the game shortly after starting.

#256 1 year ago

I need a clarification from the group. I am running the CMOS IC19 test on a 6a and it says I need to have the coin door open. I'm running these tests on the bench so no coin door connected. I have the little siegecraft board that simulates the coin door switches and was able to do it with the reset high score switch off, but I was curious about doing this without that board. Ground pin 1 of 1J4 or connect to 5V?

#257 1 year ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I need a clarification from the group. I am running the CMOS IC19 test on a 6a and it says I need to have the coin door open. I'm running these tests on the bench so no coin door connected. I have the little siegecraft board that simulates the coin door switches and was able to do it with the reset high score switch off, but I was curious about doing this without that board. Ground pin 1 of 1J4 or connect to 5V?

Cheddar if you have a look at the far left side of the CPU board assembly drawing in the Gorgar manual, it shows pin 9 on IC12 to be TP3. 5V with door closed, 0V with door open.

https://www.ipdb.org/files/1062/Gorgar_Manual.pdf

#258 1 year ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

cheddar if you have a look at the far left side of the CPU board assembly drawing in the Gorgar manual, it shows pin 9 on IC12 to be TP3. 5V with door closed, 0V with door open.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/1062/Gorgar_Manual.pdf

Nice Catch!

#259 1 year ago

Odd, pinside didn't show this thread as having new posts! I didn't see the last four until just now. The coin door needs to be open on 6, and 7 as well. Not sure about 3 and 4, but I would imagine so.

#260 1 year ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Odd, pinside didn't show this thread as having new posts! I didn't see the last four until just now. The coin door needs to be open on 6, and 7 as well. Not sure about 3 and 4, but I would imagine so.

Funny you bring this up. I am having a hard time getting into the diagnostics with white flipper roms on a 6a board (hot tip).

I can do it but the exact sequence still eludes me. Funny thing is some combination of switches and button presses on the coin door switches (3 button instead of 2) makes the machine reboot.

#261 1 year ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

Funny you bring this up. I am having a hard time getting into the diagnostics with white flipper roms on a 6a board (hot tip).
I can do it but the exact sequence still eludes me. Funny thing is some combination of switches and button presses on the coin door switches (3 button instead of 2) makes the machine reboot.

Could something be shorting out or incorrectly grounding when you do that?

How do the Pincoder ROMs behave when you do that? Ie LEDs test.

#262 1 year ago

Also, just a guess, but I'm assuming that since the only real difference between a 6 and a 6a is the introduction of seven digit displays, my bet is that the only difference between green and white flipper roms is the white roms have an updated display "driver".

This is also true for the Pincoder ROMs. The sys6a rom set is functionally the same, except for the display driver.

As far as the Pincoder display driver goes, it just uses a different software matrix/table to decide what order to run the strobe and bcd output.

#263 1 year ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Could something be shorting out or incorrectly grounding when you do that?
How do the Pincoder ROMs behave when you do that? Ie LEDs test.

I haven't tried with the pincoder rom. I'm getting better at it but still don't know the exact scenario

1 week later
#264 1 year ago

Hi All,

The current version of pincoder ROMs incorrectly contains the PATT2048.bin and PATT512.bin files. There is also mention of them in the README.txt file. These files go with the 12-rom-IC** tests which were removed from the suite of tests because they require a (second) 2716 chip and a chip programmer. The biggest reason however is that if you suspect bad sockets it is much easier to just replace them than it is to test and then replace.

However, because the current version still makes reference to these files, I have had requests for these tests. While I still dont think they are worth including, you can download the latest Release version that includes the 12-rom-*.bin files. I have added an extra link in the download menu on the https://pincoder.ca website for you if you'd like to run the tests.

Here is that link as well:

https://pincoder.ca/ccn/roms/pincoder_roms_2019.12.26.2048.zip

Note that this version does NOT contain an image for use with the Pincoder Adapter so you will have to manually add it to your adapter, or write the 12-rom-IC**.bin file to a 2716 chip and place it in IC17.

PM me if you would like to see the 12-rom-* tests included again in the next pincoder release. If there are enough votes I will put them back in

1 week later
#265 1 year ago

pincoder

Question about the Documentation for 01-LED on System 7.

4) Check that PIA1 pin 39 (CA2) is high and that IC2 pin 1 is low. If not IC2 will not
light the LEDs. There is an inverter (IC7 Pins 11:high, 10:low) between these two points
that performs the signal transition here. Isn't IC 2 Pin 1 tied to the 5VDC rail through R20?

5) Check that pin 15 on IC2 is low enough to be considered a logic 0 and that SW2 is
open. Check that R19 is 4.7k and is connecting to ground on one side. I think IC 2 only has 14 pins.

I could be way off with both of those but thought i'd throw it out there. Also, still loving the ROMS man, looking forward to the new controller!

#266 1 year ago

Hi everyone, I've added a new ROM to the pincoder software and generated a new Release version:

https://pincoder.ca/ccn/roms/pincoder_roms_2021.03.31.1434.zip

Future orders of Pincoder Adapters will contain this version. If you already have an adapter you can update it with a chip programmer using the "pincoder_adapter.bin" file in this release. Adapter users without a chip programmer can PM me to order an updated EEPROM for $15 CAD plus the usual shipping.

Note that the DIP and jumper settings for the adapter have slightly changed as a result so you will need to refer to the updated "pincoder_adapter.txt" file.

Changes since the last Release version:

* Updated 09-lamps to include a DELAY feature.
* Renumbered the ROMs to accomodate the new 12-flippers ROM.

Thanks to Cheddar and troxel for pre-testing the new 12-flippers ROM! It's nice to have people willing to check my work

Happy Troubleshooting!

#267 1 year ago

Updated my ROM last night and created another video showing off the 12-flippers test. I really like this one! I added it the the previous playlist that Cheddar created.

pincoder thanks for all the work on this. Made fixing the MPU and driver board a breeze.

#268 1 year ago
Quoted from troxel:

Updated my ROM last night and created another video showing off the 12-flippers test. I really like this one! I added it the the previous playlist that Cheddar created.
pincoder thanks for all the work on this. Made fixing the MPU and driver board a breeze.

troxel and Cheddar: Thanks for making these how to videos and managing them on YouTube.

For those looking for the entire collection, you can always find them by going to https://pincoder.ca and under the Support menu select "Community Usage Videos - YouTube".

#269 1 year ago
Quoted from perry1670:

pincoder
Question about the Documentation for 01-LED on System 7.
4) Check that PIA1 pin 39 (CA2) is high and that IC2 pin 1 is low. If not IC2 will not
light the LEDs. There is an inverter (IC7 Pins 11:high, 10:low) between these two points
that performs the signal transition here. Isn't IC 2 Pin 1 tied to the 5VDC rail through R20?
5) Check that pin 15 on IC2 is low enough to be considered a logic 0 and that SW2 is
open. Check that R19 is 4.7k and is connecting to ground on one side. I think IC 2 only has 14 pins.
I could be way off with both of those but thought i'd throw it out there. Also, still loving the ROMS man, looking forward to the new controller!

perry1670 Nice catch! - and sorry for the late reply.

There are some very subtle differences between system 7 and pre-system 7 boards, especially when it comes to the onboard LEDs. I have updated the documentation and rebuilt the zip file from yesterday.

Points 4 and 5 in the sys346 and sys6a 01a-leds.txt file now read:

4) Check that IC18 pin 39 (PIA1-CA2) is high and that IC7 pin 10 is low. If not IC2 will
not light the LEDs.

5) Check that IC2 pin 15 is low enough to be considered a logic 0 and that SW2 is
open. Check that R19 is 4.7k and is connecting to ground on one side.

The sys7 version now contains:

4) Check that IC18 pin 39 (PIA1-CA2) is high and that IC7 pin 2 is low. If not IC33 will
not light the LEDs.

5) Check that IC2 pins 1,4,10,13 is high enough to be considered a logic 1 and that SW2 is
open. Check that R20 is 1k and is connecting to +5v on one side.

I must have been asleep at the wheel that day. Thanks for pointing it out!

2 weeks later
#270 1 year ago

pincoder So I bought one of these pincoders, and im not sure of what you are supposed to look for when you are doing a test in a certain game, meaning once you set all the switches on your pincoder. Say you are testing one of the ICs on the board. You adjust the two jumpers and the dip switches according to the game. Once you power the game on, how do you know if the IC youre testing is good or not? Does something come up on the displays, or the MPU LEDs will light a certain way?I dont see any info on the pincoder website regarding this.

#271 1 year ago
Quoted from daly124:

pincoder So I bought one of these pincoders, and im not sure of what you are supposed to look for when you are doing a test in a certain game, meaning once you set all the switches on your pincoder. Say you are testing one of the ICs on the board. You adjust the two jumpers and the dip switches according to the game. Once you power the game on, how do you know if the IC youre testing is good or not? Does something come up on the displays, or the MPU LEDs will light a certain way?I dont see any info on the pincoder website regarding this.

On the pincoder site download the latest set of roms. You don't need the roms because you have the adapter but it contains a file for each test describing setup and outputs

#272 1 year ago
Quoted from daly124:

pincoder So I bought one of these pincoders, and im not sure of what you are supposed to look for when you are doing a test in a certain game, meaning once you set all the switches on your pincoder. Say you are testing one of the ICs on the board. You adjust the two jumpers and the dip switches according to the game. Once you power the game on, how do you know if the IC youre testing is good or not? Does something come up on the displays, or the MPU LEDs will light a certain way?I dont see any info on the pincoder website regarding this.

Yes, as Cheddar said, the instructions for each test are contained in the software download. You don't need to install the software onto the adapter as it's already loaded - but you do need to download it for the instructions. Just be sure to download the version that is contained on your adapter. Most adapters were shipped with 2020.06.23 and more recent adapters are being shipped with the latest version: 2021.03.31.

Both versions are available under the Download menu on:

https://pincoder.ca

2 weeks later
#273 1 year ago

Hi there

I have 2 old sys3 mpu boards that I would like to get running. Mostly just for fun and learning.

(I'm newbe to mpu repair, so please bear with me)

They are not installed in a pinball machine.
I dont have any sys 3-6 games to test/compare with.

I have replaced the scanbe sockets.
I have a hantek oscilloscope for the testing.

Both mpu boards are running the first test rom "LED" where I get alternate led flashing.
So far so good.

The test rom "Blanking" does nothing - the leds come on and stays on - no blanking pulses 1J1-37, PIA1-4, IC7-10,9,8 or IC23.
I dont think the software is running!
How do I test that it is indeed running?

What more is involved to get from rom "led" to rom "Blanking"?

I tried the Leons testrom also - in one mpu the leds comes on then off efter ½ second
In the other mpu the leds just stays on.

Any ideas?

Regards

#274 1 year ago

If 01a-leds passes, then you should in the very least see a pulse on PIA1-4 when running 02-blanking.

It does sound like the board is not booting the 02-blanking. Are you using the Pincoder Adapter or are you burning your own chips? Does the board run the 03-cmos and 04-ram tests?

Try the 01b-bus test and see if you get the results indicated in the .txt file.

#275 1 year ago
Quoted from pincoder:

If 01a-leds passes, then you should in the very least see a pulse on PIA1-4 when running 02-blanking.
It does sound like the board is not booting the 02-blanking. Are you using the Pincoder Adapter or are you burning your own chips? Does the board run the 03-cmos and 04-ram tests?
Try the 01b-bus test and see if you get the results indicated in the .txt file.

Thx
I'm burning my own roms.
Actually I'm out of 2716 eproms and dont have an uv eraser
Ordered one on amazon yesterday - will be a few weeks before it arrives.
I also ordered some cmos chips as its missing on both boards.

Will get back in a few weeks.

#276 1 year ago
Quoted from mr-zed:

Actually I'm out of 2716 eproms and dont have an uv eraser

Get some 28C16's eeproms and save yourself a lot of hassle..... drop in replacement for them.

#277 1 year ago

You can also order the Pincoder Adapter and save a lot of time by not having to program chips (or order them for that matter):

https://pincoder.ca/index.php/2020/07/10/adapter-2020-06-23-0506/

Since you already have a programmer you'll be able to update the adapter easily when new versions come out.

9 months later
#278 6 months ago

I have the Leon and Andre WMS test roms which I use but prefer pincoders because they have more tests, are more thorough and present better results as well as testing the whole game - thanks pincoder.

I just built an adapter for sys346 games, probably easier to just buy the one pincoder sells, but I had some spare W27C010 chips. These are 128k x 8bit wide and the pinouts align very nicely with 2716 eproms. You waste almost 3/4 of this memory space on this chip, but I had them after earlier building the sys7 adapter which uses 4k blocks. So an hour or so on the soldering iron and some vero-board has it built.

One suggestion I would make is to ensure you run the cmos clear routine before you go back to game play if you test in the game with the battery in place.

IMG_1543 (resized).JPGIMG_1542 (resized).JPG

#279 6 months ago
Quoted from SYS6:

I have the Leon and Andre WMS test roms which I use but prefer pincoders because they have more tests, are more thorough and present better results as well as testing the whole game - thanks pincoder.
I just built an adapter for sys346 games, probably easier to just buy the one pincoder sells, but I had some spare W27C010 chips. These are 128k x 8bit wide and the pinouts align very nicely with 2716 eproms. You waste almost 3/4 of this memory space on this chip, but I had them after earlier building the sys7 adapter which uses 4k blocks. So an hour or so on the soldering iron and some vero-board has it built.
One suggestion I would make is to ensure you run the cmos clear routine before you go back to game play if you test in the game with the battery in place.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Glad you were able to make your own out of spare parts If you also have some spare DIP sockets handy I recommend placing them between your board and the MPU board so that the MPU socket doesnt get stretched (The header pins shown seem a little thick - the same as the pincoder adapter. I chose that style of connector to get more life out of the pins..

#280 6 months ago

the scematic for the adapter board

Quoted from SYS6:

I have the Leon and Andre WMS test roms which I use but prefer pincoders because they have more tests, are more thorough and present better results as well as testing the whole game - thanks pincoder.
I just built an adapter for sys346 games, probably easier to just buy the one pincoder sells, but I had some spare W27C010 chips. These are 128k x 8bit wide and the pinouts align very nicely with 2716 eproms. You waste almost 3/4 of this memory space on this chip, but I had them after earlier building the sys7 adapter which uses 4k blocks. So an hour or so on the soldering iron and some vero-board has it built.
One suggestion I would make is to ensure you run the cmos clear routine before you go back to game play if you test in the game with the battery in place.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Nicely done! Are you willing to share your schematic and the 27C010 image?

#281 6 months ago

pincoder, yep I use a cheap wiper pin socket between the adapter and the game board. Much thinner pins and if you bend or break a pin just use a new socket. The machine pins in my pictures just let you solder easily to the veroboard.

Schwaggs, honestly you'd be best to buy the adapter from Pincoder - it's very neat, easy and handles all the variants. If I was on the same continent that's what I would have done. Because I built a sys7 variant - see post #204 in this thread - before the adapter was available I had spare eeprom chips.

I didn't draw up a schematic, just did it on the fly with iron hot and data sheets open! If you look at the pinouts of the 2716 and the W27c010 you'll notice there is a very convenient symmetry in some areas. I did create a document as a memory prompt guide for me for when I next have to use it. If you pm me your email address I'll happily send you this document and it will help you roll your own. But easiest to buy from pincoder.

The image I used was the one pincoder provided. It's cleverly arranged to suit his adapter for all systems, 3, 4, 6 & 7. But he also provides the individual test files so you can just use whatever operating system you are comfortable with to concatenate files into whatever suits you.

#282 6 months ago
Quoted from SYS6:

pincoder, yep I use a cheap wiper pin socket between the adapter and the game board. Much thinner pins and if you bend or break a pin just use a new socket. The machine pins in my pictures just let you solder easily to the veroboard.
Schwaggs, honestly you'd be best to buy the adapter from Pincoder - it's very neat, easy and handles all the variants. If I was on the same continent that's what I would have done. Because I built a sys7 variant - see post #204 in this thread - before the adapter was available I had spare eeprom chips.
I didn't draw up a schematic, just did it on the fly with iron hot and data sheets open! If you look at the pinouts of the 2716 and the W27c010 you'll notice there is a very convenient symmetry in some areas. I did create a document as a memory prompt guide for me for when I next have to use it. If you pm me your email address I'll happily send you this document and it will help you roll your own. But easiest to buy from pincoder.
The image I used was the one pincoder provided. It's cleverly arranged to suit his adapter for all systems, 3, 4, 6 & 7. But he also provides the individual test files so you can just use whatever operating system you are comfortable with to concatenate files into whatever suits you.

Thanks for all the great feedback SYS6! and thanks for ordering one I'll ship it out this morning

#283 6 months ago

Hello pincoder, I have a bear of a problem with a Williams system 6 cpu board.
The board works in attract mode and audits and game play.... I have used different test roms.
All give a good clean ready to go analysis.
However, the minute you put the game into test mode you get the two led's flashes
and the board crashes... no past go.. no nothing.
Also manual cpu board reset dips do not work because of this crash.
I can press the diagnostic push button and get the two led's to flash.
I can see the signals with the logic probes and Oscilloscope...
I do not know if the test roms you have can help diagnose and test
this kind of problem.
Any input would be appreciated.

#284 6 months ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Hello pincoder, I have a bear of a problem with a Williams system 6 cpu board.
The board works in attract mode and audits and game play.... I have used different test roms.
All give a good clean ready to go analysis.
However, the minute you put the game into test mode you get the two led's flashes
and the board crashes... no past go.. no nothing.
Also manual cpu board reset dips do not work because of this crash.
I can press the diagnostic push button and get the two led's to flash.
I can see the signals with the logic probes and Oscilloscope...
I do not know if the test roms you have can help diagnose and test
this kind of problem.
Any input would be appreciated.

Could be corrupt/bad ROM images. Pull the GREEN1, GREEN2, and GAME ROM chips and compare them to the original images:

http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/Williams/tech/roma583.html?rom=grgar_l1.zip&gm=Gorgar

Once you have the original images your chip programmer should be able to do the comparison for you.

Could also be the RAM chip(s) and/or the CMOS/5101 chip. The built-in diagnostic to test these chips is known to give false positives. The Pincoder ROMs will definitely help you certify them. They check every single address in the chips with multiple values to ensure there are no dead bits on any address within each chip.

As for the DIP switches.. I don't believe the Williams code for system 3-7 uses them. However, the Pincoder "06-switches" test ROM will allow you to test the DIP switches regardless.

If the RAM and CMOS chips pass the Pincoder tests and you still have issue with the diagnostic switch it might be the CPU chip itself, not handling NMI's properly. This is generally unlikely but yes, the Pincoder ROMs will certainly help you find the issue. Start with "01a-leds". Its a really good place to start because it uses the least amount of circuitry possible and if you let it run a few minutes while watching for mis-steps in the alternating of the LEDs (there should be none) then you know you have a steady system to start with.

The instructions will tell you which way to go from there. Post any questions you have here and I (or someone else on this thread) will try to help

ps: There are other ROMs in the package that will help you test the diagnostic switch and the CPU chip's ability to respond to an NMI signal (diagnostic switch press).

3 months later
#285 3 months ago

Hi pincoder
I have some system 3/4/6 boards to fix. I have Leon test roms but I prefer to use pincoders because I can test each part of the board. Thank you for all you've done.
However I had an issue with cmos test. When I try with a MWS5101EL3 the test is successful. The chip is good. When I try with the Leon test it fails. If I start the pinball I have the audit mode.
I do not know why It is not working with MWS5101EL3, maybe access speed.
If I change with another good cmos the pinball is working normally.
Regards
Michel

#286 3 months ago

Glad to hear you prefer the Pincoder stuff

I can't say why the Leon test is failing however, if the NVRAM chip you're using passes the Pincoder CMOS test you should be good to go.

When working with NVRAM instead of the 5101 you need to run the Pincoder clear-cmos test whenever you want to go back to game mode and you have previously run pincoder tests that use the 5101/NVRAM.

So, run the clear_cmos "test" with the coin door open, then install the green2 chip as usual and boot the game with the door still open. You should get audit mode with this.

Once you see the audit mode, power off the game, wait 2 seconds, then power on the game again. You should get attract mode. Close the coin door and you are done

Edit: If you think the NVRAM chip you are using is the culprit, it may come down to the chip's response timing. The time it takes to read or write a byte of data will generally be faster than the 5101 so it should not have any problem responding in time.

The Pincoder 03-cmos test will check every single address in the chip with different values to make sure each of the 8 bits responds accordingly. I'm not familiar with how the Leon chip tests, or how thorough it is so can't answer as to why the NVRAM fails the Leon test.

#287 3 months ago

Leon chip, at least the first version, checked only one address location of every RAM, so not very thorough RAM test, more like a chip select test.

Maybe it takes a while for the MPU supply voltage to stabilize, and Leon's test does not take that into account. NVRAM is held in write protect state until voltage is OK.

#288 3 months ago

Thank you for your reply.
The memory I use is not a NVRAM. It is an old 5101.
All the MWS5101EL3 are not working on the Williams. However they're good.
Your test is successful. The Leon test fails. The diagnostic test on the cpu board shows an issue with IC19.

#289 88 days ago

Great work on these roms. I am stuck trying to fix a Flash system 4. LED test fails both stuck on. Bus test pin5 VMA stuck high. Not sure what to do from here

#290 86 days ago

Hi. Thank you for purchasing an adapter. As we already spoke on the phone, I'll just answer here as well so that others can see..

Because of the way the MPU board was designed, when the it is powered up the two LEDs come on automatically. The CPU has to execute a section of code to turn them off. So if they're on and stay on right from the start, it means the CPU is not shutting them off.

In the case of the 01a-LEDs test, the code simply alternates them to show activity.

If they don't alternate, then you need to find out why the code is not being executed. Possible reasons here are:

Inadequate power. You should have 5.1-5.3 volts going into the MPU board at the power connector, and at least 12v going in on the same connector.

--> 5v power runs the CPU and logic chips. Unsteady or inadequate power here will make your board fail intermittently and cause confusion generally everywhere.

--> 12v power is used for the reset circuit. Typically it's actually 18v coming in from the power supply, and that's okay. 12 is the minimum. Without this the reset circuit will prevent the CPU from booting up and the LEDs will both stay lit.

Another reason for a boot failure is because the communication from the CPU to the adapter (or installed ROM chip) is failing. For this to work the address bus and data bus lines, along with the handshaking lines must be working properly. Typical causes of failure here are transceiver chips (if installed) or other chips connected to those lines. PIA, RAM, ROM, or CMOS chips could be failing and tying down one or more of the required lines. Since the 01a-LEDs test doesn't use any of those chips except PIA1, IC17, and the CPU chip itself, you can remove the possible obstructing chips and run the LEDs test to see if it passes.

Sometimes it's bad traces on the board, cracked solder joints, bad chip sockets, or doubled up solder points (two pins soldered together where they shouldn't be).

I've also seen boards that run fine on the bench, and fail to boot when installed in the game. This can happen when the board is shorting out on the metal mounting brackets. In this case, cover the point on the mounting bracket with electrical tape and ensure nothing on the board pokes through it. The board does not need to be grounded via the mounting plate.

Of course, a board could fail to boot if the CPU chip was bad, but you have already tried another known good chip so it's not likely that.

Hope this helps, keep us posted

#291 80 days ago

I've been working on a sys7 mpu which after replacing a 2114 ram, identified as failed by test 4, is now operating properly. Before I got to this stage I was concerned maybe the led test was indicating a problem.

A casual watching of the 01a led test looks like everything is working as expected with leds ON, then OFF then alternating. However when I watch this test very carefully I notice the leds don't strictly alternate. What I see is an occasional time when both or no leds are on. If I watch the 7 segment display I see when 3 is shown neither led is on, when 4 is shown both leds are on, when 7 is shown no leds, when 8 is shown both leds are on.

It occurs to me this may be because the leds are a reflection of the two least significant bits in a word that is incrementing. pincoder do you have any comments about what I'm seeing?

#292 79 days ago

The 7 segment LED on the mpu board is wired with the two single LEDs and so you are correct that they light in unison with what happens to be showing on the segment.. and it has to do with which bits they decided to wire them to.

So, on a system 7 wired as a system 7 the independent LEDs can be ignored and you should just go by the segment display counting upward through all of the values (and you should be running the sys7 version of 01a-leds)

On a system 7 board wired as a system 6a (or earlier) you should ignore the segment display and go by the alternating LEDs (and you should be running the 01a-leds test using the sys6a or sys346 versions according to which board it is wired as.

#293 79 days ago

Thanks pincoder for the explanation. I now see reading the .txt documentation files for the 01a tests there is a subtle difference in described led behaviour between systems that I hadn't noticed. I had naively assumed they would be the same; in future I'll study the docs more thoroughly Interestingly some of my sys7 boards do not have leds, just the seven segment but a few have both leds and display.

Thank you again for giving us these roms - they are very useful.

#294 79 days ago
Quoted from SYS6:

Thanks pincoder for the explanation. I now see reading the .txt documentation files for the 01a tests there is a subtle difference in described led behaviour between systems that I hadn't noticed. I had naively assumed they would be the same; in future I'll study the docs more thoroughly Interestingly some of my sys7 boards do not have leds, just the seven segment but a few have both leds and display.
Thank you again for giving us these roms - they are very useful.

Yeah its odd how they make subtle changes to a board without updating a revision number. It would have been a nightmare for them to support to any level of accuracy.

I'm glad you're finding the ROMs useful! It's good to hear when people are using them

Also, don't worry about not noticing the small differences in the documentation.. I was going for presenting the least bit of change to a document. In fact, each test ROM has a single documentation template, and the differences for each system are all encoded in the template. When I push out a new version, the template is used programatically to generate the .txt file (and also the .bin) for each system. This way, all the tests are documented the same, save for exactly only the system depended changes. The headers and footers of each .txt file also show which system they are describing so if you've printed them all off and aren't sure, just read the headers and footers

Craig

3 weeks later
#295 53 days ago

Funny thing I came across when using the Pincoder test roms on my system 3 World Cup. There is no high score reset button in the switch matrix for this game - I don't know about other system 3 games and by system 4 hs reset is in the matrix as switch 8 and this seems common in all later games. For system 3s this means some of the tests can't be run fully as the hs reset is used to step through or activate some functions eg in Lamp test it changes from all on to different flash rates. In solenoid test hs reset is used to fire the solenoid under test.

Minor points raised more for interest than anything else as the test roms are very useful getting the earlier cpu, blanking, memory, displays etc tests done. Maybe if the lamp test startup state was all flashing it may be an advantage as the lamps would then toggle and the advance button could step through the individual flashing lamps? Maybe there aren't enough sys 3 games to worry about

#296 52 days ago
Quoted from SYS6:

Funny thing I came across when using the Pincoder test roms on my system 3 World Cup. There is no high score reset button in the switch matrix for this game - I don't know about other system 3 games and by system 4 hs reset is in the matrix as switch 8 and this seems common in all later games. For system 3s this means some of the tests can't be run fully as the hs reset is used to step through or activate some functions eg in Lamp test it changes from all on to different flash rates. In solenoid test hs reset is used to fire the solenoid under test.
Minor points raised more for interest than anything else as the test roms are very useful getting the earlier cpu, blanking, memory, displays etc tests done. Maybe if the lamp test startup state was all flashing it may be an advantage as the lamps would then toggle and the advance button could step through the individual flashing lamps? Maybe there aren't enough sys 3 games to worry about

Interesting. I have updated the lamps test to start out on a slow flash instead. It will appear in the next version.

As for the missing HSR button, the solenoids test uses the top DIP switch and the DIAG button to compensate for the missing HSR button. This could also be done with the lamps test, except that it currently uses the DIPs switches to control a delay feature. Has anyone found the delay feature useful? If not it could be removed. I could then incorporate the behavior of the solenoids test into this one.

It could also be done for 11a-sounds

Thoughts?

#297 52 days ago

Thanks for the response pincoder.

I think changing the order of start up for the lamp test is a good idea, not withstanding the missing hs reset button issue. The reason I think this is that with most tests you run and if they pass then you move on without the need for further depth of investigation. So all lamps flashing is best and most useful as it quickly verifies lamp operation. You can think of hardware issues that would cause a row or col to be locked on or failed off and this all flashing covers both cases at a quick glance.

I have not used the delay feature yet as I have been able to work out what is going on without it. I don't know if it may be useful in the future? It would seem to be better to retain it in my view, but maybe others will chime in with thoughts and experiences. Maybe you could just use one of the dips in conjunction with the diag button as the hsr replacement and retain the other seven dips in the bank for delay value settings?

A thought for the missing hs reset, maybe easier would just be to use, say, the plumb bob tilt or any of the easily accessible column 1 switches for the same function as the hs reset in any test where hs reset is used. My guess is this would be easiest to program and would retain the existing delay features?

Purely for my interest I tried using a jumper wire in the place where the hs reset would be in World Cup with the game roms running - this did nothing, so I guess the hs reset feature is coded in the WMS game roms. I did this for my interest as I have a Phoenix which is said to be a system 4 game, but this refers to the mpu hardware level as Phoenix runs with white - generally regarded as sys 3 roms. Phoenix has a hs reset coin door button.

Just quickly browsing other sys3 game documentation I see that neither Disco Fever nor Lucky 7 have hs reset buttons, so I guess the hs reset feature only came at later games.

Thanks again for your great roms, I find them very useful for keeping my fleet running.

#298 52 days ago
Quoted from SYS6:

Thanks for the response pincoder.
I think changing the order of start up for the lamp test is a good idea, not withstanding the missing hs reset button issue. The reason I think this is that with most tests you run and if they pass then you move on without the need for further depth of investigation. So all lamps flashing is best and most useful as it quickly verifies lamp operation. You can think of hardware issues that would cause a row or col to be locked on or failed off and this all flashing covers both cases at a quick glance.
I have not used the delay feature yet as I have been able to work out what is going on without it. I don't know if it may be useful in the future? It would seem to be better to retain it in my view, but maybe others will chime in with thoughts and experiences. Maybe you could just use one of the dips in conjunction with the diag button as the hsr replacement and retain the other seven dips in the bank for delay value settings?
A thought for the missing hs reset, maybe easier would just be to use, say, the plumb bob tilt or any of the easily accessible column 1 switches for the same function as the hs reset in any test where hs reset is used. My guess is this would be easiest to program and would retain the existing delay features?
Purely for my interest I tried using a jumper wire in the place where the hs reset would be in World Cup with the game roms running - this did nothing, so I guess the hs reset feature is coded in the WMS game roms. I did this for my interest as I have a Phoenix which is said to be a system 4 game, but this refers to the mpu hardware level as Phoenix runs with white - generally regarded as sys 3 roms. Phoenix has a hs reset coin door button.
Just quickly browsing other sys3 game documentation I see that neither Disco Fever nor Lucky 7 have hs reset buttons, so I guess the hs reset feature only came at later games.
Thanks again for your great roms, I find them very useful for keeping my fleet running.

Good points, thank you I will look into the plumb bob tilt thing.. hadnt though of that one.

As for your jumper wire idea, Interesting research! thanks for posting

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