(Topic ID: 222797)

NEW! Williams System 3-7 In-Game Test ROMs


By pincoder

1 year ago



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  • 196 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by kevinclark
  • Topic is favorited by 48 Pinsiders

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There are 196 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#51 1 year ago

Craig, you have the link wrong for the new version of the file (or the file name is wrong). You have it pointing to version 2015 and it should be 2051. Correct link:
http://pincoder.reversion.ca/ccn/ROMS/pincoder_roms-2716_2018-09-26_2051.zip

#52 1 year ago
Quoted from stangbat:

Craig, you have the link wrong for the new version of the file (or the file name is wrong). You have it pointing to version 2015 and it should be 2051. Correct link:
http://pincoder.reversion.ca/ccn/ROMS/pincoder_roms-2716_2018-09-26_2051.zip

Ha! Fixed. Thanks

#53 1 year ago
Quoted from SteveNZ:

I checked all 4 lines that are connected to the dips, I get 4.98v when the dip is open and 0v when the dip is closed. I also checked the image in the 27C256 and it looks to me that ROM 0 is the first one in the list. I did this in case ROM 4 was accidentally written to the 27C256.

Is there any chance that when all 4 addresses are low it does not select the first chunk, as in should it be some other combination of address pins?

In the end there is nothing wrong with the 27C256 image or the schematics for the adapter board, i was just misreading the information from my ROM burner. So have confidence with burning a 27C256 chip and making an adapter board.

#54 1 year ago
Quoted from SteveNZ:

In the end there is nothing wrong with the 27C256 image or the schematics for the adapter board, i was just misreading the information from my ROM burner. So have confidence with burning a 27C256 chip and making an adapter board.

Nice! and thanks for the update Have you tried all of the ROMs yet?

#55 1 year ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Nice! and thanks for the update Have you tried all of the ROMs yet?

I haven't tested any of the ROMS other than 00. I'm stuck at the 00 Bus ROM ROM. neither of my boards will run the 01 LED ROM.

With 00 ROM I have all the correct signals at IC1 (CPU) except for pin 9 A0, which is low, and should be high. I can't find a short of any kind and there is continuity from pin 9 to the buffer chip and from the buffer chip to the IC17 ROM.

I am testing on a workbench and if I detach the driver board all the datalines are low, I don't know if this is normal or if it is a clue.

Tonight, I will test with Leon's test chip, I have already tested with Marco's and I get 1 long flash then a locked LED, if I am interpreting correctly it means that the first ROM is not testing correctly, but replacing the ROM makes no difference.

#56 1 year ago
Quoted from SteveNZ:

I haven't tested any of the ROMS other than 00. I'm stuck at the 00 Bus ROM ROM. neither of my boards will run the 01 LED ROM.
With 00 ROM I have all the correct signals at IC1 (CPU) except for pin 9 A0, which is low, and should be high. I can't find a short of any kind and there is continuity from pin 9 to the buffer chip and from the buffer chip to the IC17 ROM.
I am testing on a workbench and if I detach the driver board all the datalines are low, I don't know if this is normal or if it is a clue.
Tonight, I will test with Leon's test chip, I have already tested with Marco's and I get 1 long flash then a locked LED, if I am interpreting correctly it means that the first ROM is not testing correctly, but replacing the ROM makes no difference.

What if you take out ALL the roms, and as many socketed chips as you can? (including the CPU) and power it up. I'll try mine and see what kind of results I get on the address and data lines. I would think that without a CPU chip installed the lines would be Hi-Z.

#57 1 year ago

Good way to check for dead address / data buffers or a short is to take out everything but the CPU. The address and data lines all go active (cpu looks for program?). So in that state you can check on each side of the buffers.

#58 1 year ago
Quoted from SteveNZ:

I have already tested with Marco's and I get 1 long flash then a locked LED, if I am interpreting correctly it means that the first ROM is not testing correctly, but replacing the ROM makes no difference.

Indeed....the testprogram fails to test RAM IC13 ($00~$7f). If replacing IC13 doesn't change anything, the chip select circuit should be checked. A missing address- or databus signal can be the culprit too.

#59 1 year ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Indeed....the testprogram fails to test RAM IC13 ($00~$7f). If replacing IC13 doesn't change anything, the chip select circuit should be checked. A missing address- or databus signal can be the culprit too.

I didn't have a chance to do more testing, the board just started to work again, there must be an intermittent connection or short on the board. Hard to find now, so I'll just wait until it fails again.

I have another board with a similar problem, but I am fairly sure the issue is caused by previous battery damage that was not cleaned up fully.

#60 1 year ago

With my System 6 board now working, I tested all of the ROMs. Well most, I didn't try 06 RAM3 test because that is for System 7, I also did not try 14, 15 or 16 for clearing Init and Edit of CMOS.

Everything worked as expected, the Switch test in particular is very handy when testing the trough switches as it shows up to 12 switch closures at the same time.

Thanks for writing these ROMs.

#61 1 year ago

The title of this thread suggests the ROMs are for System 3, 4 and 6, but in the documents there is reference to System 7.
Can I use these ROMs for System 7? Which IC socket on the System 7 board should I insert the ROM into?

#62 1 year ago
Quoted from SteveNZ:

The title of this thread suggests the ROMs are for System 3, 4 and 6, but in the documents there is reference to System 7.
Can I use these ROMs for System 7? Which IC socket on the System 7 board should I insert the ROM into?

If they work with system 7 they'd probably need to be doubled up on a 2532 in IC17

#63 1 year ago
Quoted from SteveNZ:

I didn't have a chance to do more testing, the board just started to work again, there must be an intermittent connection or short on the board. Hard to find now, so I'll just wait until it fails again.
I have another board with a similar problem, but I am fairly sure the issue is caused by previous battery damage that was not cleaned up fully.

It drives me crazy when problems just go away like that, but I'm glad its at least working for now, and that you are finding the test ROMs useful.

Quoted from SteveNZ:

The title of this thread suggests the ROMs are for System 3, 4 and 6, but in the documents there is reference to System 7.
Can I use these ROMs for System 7? Which IC socket on the System 7 board should I insert the ROM into?

IC17 is normally a 2732 chip so yes, it would go there and the image would need to be doubled up on the chip.

I recently tested the ROMs on a system 7 Pharaoh. The MPU board had been modified to use a 2716 in the IC17 socket. Pharaoh also has 7 digit displays. Not sure if all 7's have seven digit displays. Anyway, I noticed a few irregularities. For one, the LEDs on the MPU board are flipped (so bottom is top and top is bottom). The 7 segment LED does some weird but harmless dancing around, and the 7 digit display signals are not compatible with the six digit. Numbers are jumbled up. So all of the ROMs that use displays are pretty much useless. The machine I was on had it's own issues and so I could not be certain the ROMs were functioning properly.

I really need to get a hold of a working system 7 board and go through the ROMs with a fine tooth comb. Then I could change the title of this thread

#64 1 year ago
Quoted from pincoder:

It drives me crazy when problems just go away like that, but I'm glad its at least working for now, and that you are finding the test ROMs useful.

IC17 is normally a 2732 chip so yes, it would go there and the image would need to be doubled up on the chip.
I recently tested the ROMs on a system 7 Pharaoh. The MPU board had been modified to use a 2716 in the IC17 socket. Pharaoh also has 7 digit displays. Not sure if all 7's have seven digit displays. Anyway, I noticed a few irregularities. For one, the LEDs on the MPU board are flipped (so bottom is top and top is bottom). The 7 segment LED does some weird but harmless dancing around, and the 7 digit display signals are not compatible with the six digit. Numbers are jumbled up. So all of the ROMs that use displays are pretty much useless. The machine I was on had it's own issues and so I could not be certain the ROMs were functioning properly.
I really need to get a hold of a working system 7 board and go through the ROMs with a fine tooth comb. Then I could change the title of this thread

Have you posted the source for these? I haven't done any Williams specific coding but I have customized some 6800 Bally code and done a lot of 6800 based programming.

#65 1 year ago

The source code is not available for download.

#66 1 year ago

Does this work with Hans's single rom adapter? Would be great if it did, I eliminated sockets on my boards
and would be nice to easily reprogram a single chip with this and then easily revert to the entire code of game with just one chip. I know this is still one chip but this way I can burn it in the 2764 and then reburn it for the game code and not have to order and stock other chips OR sockets

#67 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball-museum:

Does this work with Hans's single rom adapter? Would be great if it did, I eliminated sockets on my boards
and would be nice to easily reprogram a single chip with this and then easily revert to the entire code of game with just one chip.

A 2764 can only hold four 2716s, so you couldn't fit all of these on it (although maybe if they were compiled together to save space it'd work). You can definitely burn one of these at a time to a 28c64 and stick it in the adapter though.

#68 1 year ago

How about one at a time? On a 2764 which is what that board is built to use. Could I do it? Should I quadruple them? Or maybe fill free space with zeroes to offset it correctly?

#69 1 year ago

It does specifically use a 2764 not the one you said

#70 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball-museum:

It does specifically use a 2764 not the one you said

It can use a 28c64 too. Electronically erasable like a 28c16 so you can rr burn it quickly, no uv eraser needed.

Quoted from pinball-museum:

Should I quadruple them? Or maybe fill free space with zeroes to offset it correctly?

Just putting it in the same position in the rom that I 17 normally goes should be enough. Rest doesn't matter.

#71 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball-museum:

It does specifically use a 2764 not the one you said

The 28c64 is compatible to a 2764. You could quadruple them which is the easiest way to ensure you're getting the code 'where it belongs' but in general, anytime you combine roms the highest one in the series is the one that a 2716 would be on a single chip setup (which the test roms are).

This is because the bootup address pointer needs to be in the last 2 bytes of rom.

1 week later
#72 12 months ago

Hi! Just simple questions: I have a 27256 rom, I can create the adapter, but I cannot understand how to select the specific test rom via dip switch
Then, I'm trying these amazing software (thanks Pincoder!!! ) on a partially working sys6 board. Test 01-Led is ok, also the test 02-Blanking but with 00-BUS I noticed that pin 9 (address A0) is LOW instead HIGH as it should be.. What can cause this wrong signal?
Thanks

#73 12 months ago
Quoted from Theonlylilo:

Hi! Just simple questions: I have a 27256 rom, I can create the adapter, but I cannot understand how to select the specific test rom via dip switch
Then, I'm trying these amazing software (thanks Pincoder!!! ) on a partially working sys6 board. Test 01-Led is ok, also the test 02-Blanking but with 00-BUS I noticed that pin 9 (address A0) is LOW instead HIGH as it should be.. What can cause this wrong signal?
Thanks

The different tests can be accessed by setting the DIP switches to their binary value ie:

0000 = 00-bus
0001 = 01-leds
0010 = 02-blanking
0011 = 03-cmos
0100 = 04-ram1
0101 = 05-ram2
0110 = 06-ram3
0111 = 07-displays
1000 = 08-switches
1001 = 09-interrupts
1010 = 10-timer
1011 = 11-lamps
1100 = 12-solenoids
1101 = 13-sounds
1110 = 14-clear_cmos
1111 = 15-init_cmos

Note that 16-edit_cmos cannot be accessed since the 27256 chip can only hold 16 x 2K images

I still have no explanation for the LOW address lines on the 00-bus test. I had two lines that were low on my board and it works just fine. You would think it would be safe to assume that all boards should test the same here but clearly they do not.

You only need to run the 00-bus test if 01-leds fails. If that one passes, skip the 00-bus test and move on to 02-blanking and keep moving ahead.

2 weeks later
#74 11 months ago

Hi everyone, there's a new version of ROMs available:

http://pincoder.reversion.ca

This version adds two new ROMs: 17-transceivers and 18-bounce.

Craig

#75 11 months ago

Nice to see this being updated.... ill be trying this out in the near future

#76 11 months ago
Quoted from Stretch7:

Nice to see this being updated.... ill be trying this out in the near future

Nice to see people trying them out!

#77 11 months ago

....

#78 11 months ago

Hi again!

Although not ALL of the ROMs have been ported to System 7, there are some available in the new beta version if anyone wants to use them. Mostly just the basics, RAM and CMOS tests etc, and are available in 2K (2716) and 4K (2732/2532) sizes.

I'll update the title of this thread once all of the system 7 ROMs are available in a standard release.

The beta version of the zip file contains support for system 7 as well as 3,4, 6.

You can find RELEASE and BETA versions here: http://pincoder.reversion.ca

Craig

2 months later
#79 8 months ago

Can some one make me one of these. Dont really want to buy a programer for one time use, unless some one knows of a cheap one

#81 8 months ago

I have heard peoplw say they dont program 2716 properly

#82 8 months ago

Might be if you have really old 2716's. But you can always use a 2732, they are easier to find anyway.

#83 8 months ago
Quoted from Nusilor:

I have heard peoplw say they dont program 2716 properly

25v 2716s from certain manufacturers don't work, but I've never had a problem. Plus you can just use. 28c16 instead, way easier

#84 8 months ago
Quoted from Tuukka:

I have one of these. At $33, a bargain.
ebay.com link » Usb Minipro Tl866cs Universal Bios Programmer Eeprom Flash 8051 Avr Gal Pic Spi

Make sure you get the CS version. Minipro started shipping the "II" version and it removes the ability to program anything about 18 or 16 volts, and there are lots of pinball chips that you need the 21 volts the cs maxes out at.

2 weeks later
#85 7 months ago

Hey Pincoder.... I finally got a chance to continue working on my dead MPU board for Flash and finally (with the help of your ROMs) I found the issue. The 7410 that decodes the read/write for the data buffers had one input not working, so when doing a read, it was OK, but on the write, the data transceivers were not being enabled at the right time so I would always write 0's . Never been so happy as seeing the LED blink!!! It wasn't an obvious failure - the IC wasn't hot, and the input pin was toggling correctly. Anyway, that was the only issue keeping the game from booting - now to do fix the drop targets and rebuild the flippers and I'll be a happy camper!

it made it nice to run the RAM and Light tests w/o enabling everything else at first with the Game ROMs.

#86 7 months ago
Quoted from uofmer:

Hey Pincoder.... I finally got a chance to continue working on my dead MPU board for Flash and finally (with the help of your ROMs) I found the issue. The 7410 that decodes the read/write for the data buffers had one input not working, so when doing a read, it was OK, but on the write, the data transceivers were not being enabled at the right time so I would always write 0's . Never been so happy as seeing the LED blink!!! It wasn't an obvious failure - the IC wasn't hot, and the input pin was toggling correctly. Anyway, that was the only issue keeping the game from booting - now to do fix the drop targets and rebuild the flippers and I'll be a happy camper!
it made it nice to run the RAM and Light tests w/o enabling everything else at first with the Game ROMs.

That's freaking awesome!! Nice going on finding the problem!! I'm glad the ROMs came to be of some help! That was a pretty peculiar issue. Thanks for giving me some feedback on what kind of chip you needed

1 month later
#87 6 months ago

Hi Craig, thanks for making these! I'm trying them out to figure out a misbehaving firepower and gorgar now.

Can I ask for a clarification on step 1? Instructions say "Top and bottom LEDs should alternate flashing." The LEDs are flashing together. I'm not sure if that's the expected result and the word "alternate" is misleading, or if that's an error and they're supposed to flash but at different times from each other.

Thanks!

Update: it's failing test 01 in ways not tackled in the instructions. I'm an outlier. Yay. It sometimes boots up silently, and the lights flash. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they flash slower and slower with each flash. Sometimes it fires the top saucer kickout solenoid, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it plays sounds, sometimes it doesn't. TP4 remains low, even though a solenoid occasionally fires, and the displays get a brief flicker of power when machine is turned on. I'm so confused. Video pending, my phone won't let me upload to youtube, will have to return to desktop.

#88 6 months ago

I'm glad you're putting these ROMs to use, and thanks for posting the video!

The LEDs should be flashing one at a time, top.. bottom..top..bottom.. etc.

From the looks of things the test ROM isn't actually being executed at all. The two LEDs come on simultaneously upon power up, and the test ROM then shuts them off and begins the test. Also, the sound you're hearing is from an uninitialized PIA on the driver board. When the ROM runs, it also initializes all of the PIAs right away.

So, from the looks of it, the MPU board is not even getting to the point where it starts to run code.

Things to test:

1 - Check for 4.9-5.2 Volts coming in to the MPU board (TP9-5V and TP10-GND).

2 - Ensure that the reset circuit is working. TP8 should go HIGH about 1 second after power up and stay that way. If it bounces up and down (continues to reset) both LEDs will probably flash each time (Though I've never had a bouncy reset signal so I'm guessing as to the outcome).

3 - Ensure the test ROM has been programmed correctly. If you look at the first page of bytes in each ROM image you will see the name of the ROM etc.

4 - Ensure the test ROM is in the IC17 socket, correctly inserted (notch end down) and all pins are inserted correctly, etc.

Let me know what you find

#89 6 months ago
Quoted from pincoder:

I'm glad you're putting these ROMs to use, and thanks for posting the video!
The LEDs should be flashing one at a time, top.. bottom..top..bottom.. etc.
From the looks of things the test ROM isn't actually being executed at all. The two LEDs come on simultaneously upon power up, and the test ROM then shuts them off and begins the test. Also, the sound you're hearing is from an uninitialized PIA on the driver board. When the ROM runs, it also initializes all of the PIAs right away.
So, from the looks of it, the MPU board is not even getting to the point where it starts to run code.
Things to test:
1 - Check for 4.9-5.2 Volts coming in to the MPU board (TP9-5V and TP10-GND).
2 - Ensure that the reset circuit is working. TP8 should go HIGH about 1 second after power up and stay that way. If it bounces up and down (continues to reset) both LEDs will probably flash each time (Though I've never had a bouncy reset signal so I'm guessing as to the outcome).
3 - Ensure the test ROM has been programmed correctly. If you look at the first page of bytes in each ROM image you will see the name of the ROM etc.
4 - Ensure the test ROM is in the IC17 socket, correctly inserted (notch end down) and all pins are inserted correctly, etc.
Let me know what you find

Wow, that was a fast reply!

When it boots, which isn't every time, I see 4.99V across TP 9/10. TP 8 is low for a split second then goes high. When it doesn't boot, no volts at 9/10 and 8 stays low.

I think the rom looks good, here's the code, as read back from the rom:
IMG_20190404_083251161 (resized).jpg

Reading what I typed, I guess the first thing I should do is figure out what components make up the reset circuit and replace them.

#90 6 months ago

Hmm. First off, when you switch the game on you should ALWAYS get power across TP9 and TP10. If you're not, then you need to look at the power supply. There are plenty of threads on this forum for that and I think you should start at verifying connectors, solder joints, and wiring associated with the power supply. The ROMs can be of no use if they can't be run in the first place. There is also a 12V supply coming into the MPU board. Check TP1 for that. It's unregulated so it could be higher than 12V.

Once you have consistent and reliable power then you can try running the LEDs test again. If it still doesnt run properly then take a second look at the reset circuit.

Secondly, the picture of the ROM dump you gave seems a little odd to me (incorrect/missing bytes perhaps?). I could be wrong, but to be sure load the original .bin file and look at it with the same viewer to see if it looks exactly the same. If so you're good to go.

I'll be releasing an updated version of ROMs in the next day or two but the ones you're using now are okay to use.

#91 6 months ago

Hi everyone, I've released a new version of pincoder ROMs that include support for System 7. I've also shortened the website URL.

Please head over to http://pincoder.ca and take a look. Your feedback is appreciated!

Thanks!

#92 6 months ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Hi everyone, I've released a new version of pincoder ROMs that include support for System 7. I've also shortened the website URL.
Please head over to http://pincoder.ca and take a look. Your feedback is appreciated!
Thanks!

Your site is not responding. Is it down?

#93 6 months ago
Quoted from hailrazer:

Your site is not responding. Is it down?

It's up.. try again?

Also, note the URL change. It was http://pincoder.reversion.ca and now its http://pincoder.ca both should work, though the former will go away in a few months..

#94 6 months ago

You remind me of "Lindsey" and funny enough, he was from Alberta too!

#95 6 months ago
Quoted from CanadianPinball:

You remind me of "Lindsey" and funny enough, he was from Alberta too!

Oh? Who's Lindsey?

#96 6 months ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Oh? Who's Lindsey?

Pinforge.com and WarpZoneArcade.com were his but I see they are now gone. Thewaybckmachine has WarpZoneArcade.com captured.

He was a great resource, you can still find a lot of his posts on rpg and klov.

And he was from Edmonton, FWIW

#97 6 months ago

Cool! I'll check it out. Thanks!

#98 6 months ago

Protip is that ROMs are ROMs, not BINs. Rewrote the chip as a rom and it passes test 1 with flying colors. Now the chips are all in the uv bath so I can rewrite the rest.

#99 6 months ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

Protip is that ROMs are ROMs, not BINs. Rewrote the chip as a rom and it passes test 1 with flying colors. Now the chips are all in the uv bath so I can rewrite the rest.

Interesting. What software and hardware are you using to program the chips? Typically BIN implies a straight copy and not some sort of translation. Did you have to rename the files to .rom or anything?

#100 6 months ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Interesting. What software and hardware are you using to program the chips? Typically BIN implies a straight copy and not some sort of translation. Did you have to rename the files to .rom or anything?

Gq-4x with newest available drivers. No renaming. I'm not experienced enough to know the difference, but opening with file format .rom seems to be what I need to do.

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