I still haven't decided on a vehicle, taking my time. We really love our 2010 Toyota Sienna. I am 100% sure now a 4Runner is out, they are just absurdly expensive. I want something with a lot of room for traveling like our Sienna, but we don't want to own 2 vans.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:I want something with a lot of room for traveling like our Sienna, but we don't want to own 2 vans.
Why? If a van is the appropriate vehicle, why not get another van? It fits pins easy, and is very versatile.
Quoted from DaveH:Why? If a van is the appropriate vehicle, why not get another van? It fits pins easy, and is very versatile.
I want a vehicle with 4 wheel drive.
Pcprogrammer,
If it helps you any, I’ve been in the market for a new vehicle myself. The one car I keep gravitating towards is the newly redesigned CR-V (2017–).
It checks all the boxes:
—large enough to hold any game (including widebodies and System 3s)
—really excellent fuel economy
—available AWD (which I’ve read has been massively improved since last model, but still really lacking compared to Subaru’s).
—miles of rear leg room, and no center “hump.”
If you’re looking for something with a 3rd row though, it doesn’t have one, and it’s towing capacity is a paltry 1,500 lbs. Still, it seems to be a really good option. My one reservation is that it’s got a turbo. To me, that’s just one more thing to go wrong on a car, but it’s the reason it gets such good mileage.
Quoted from mbaumle:Pcprogrammer,
If it helps you any, I’ve been in the market for a new vehicle myself. The one car I keep gravitating towards is the newly redesigned CR-V (2017–).
It checks all the boxes:
—large enough to hold any game (including widebodies and System 3s)
—really excellent fuel economy
—available AWD (which I’ve read has been massively improved since last model, but still really lacking compared to Subaru’s).
—miles of rear leg room, and no center “hump.”
If you’re looking for something with a 3rd row though, it doesn’t have one, and it’s towing capacity is a paltry 1,500 lbs. Still, it seems to be a really good option. My one reservation is that it’s got a turbo. To me, that’s just one more thing to go wrong on a car, but it’s the reason it gets such good mileage.
Now that most small suvs went to a cvt transmission, do some research on the forums for any issues they have. There have not been many cvt used through the years that held up well....yet. :/
As for a turbo, they should go beyond 100k. And are covered under power train warranty. Ya it is something to go wrong but they help with fuel economy and get up n go. All the new quality ones seem to be holding up quiet well. My SS, escape, and ms3 all had/have turbos. No issues thus far
Quoted from mbaumle:Pcprogrammer,
If it helps you any, I’ve been in the market for a new vehicle myself. The one car I keep gravitating towards is the newly redesigned CR-V (2017–).
It checks all the boxes:
—large enough to hold any game (including widebodies and System 3s)
—really excellent fuel economy
—available AWD (which I’ve read has been massively improved since last model, but still really lacking compared to Subaru’s).
—miles of rear leg room, and no center “hump.”
If you’re looking for something with a 3rd row though, it doesn’t have one, and it’s towing capacity is a paltry 1,500 lbs. Still, it seems to be a really good option. My one reservation is that it’s got a turbo. To me, that’s just one more thing to go wrong on a car, but it’s the reason it gets such good mileage.
I definitely want something bigger than a CR-V. I do want a 3rd row of seats and better towing too as I tow a boat around a lot.
Quoted from northvibe:Now that most small suvs went to a cvt transmission, do some research on the forums for any issues they have. There have not been many cvt used through the years that held up well....yet. :/
That's another thing I'm kinda worried about. All I want out of a vehicle is to just drive it forever until it's beaten into the ground, but I also love all the bells and whistles that new cars have. I guess you can't have it all. Still, I trust that Honda will produce a reliable product. I feel that they've learned their lesson of building really awful transmissions from back in the early 2000s when they had several lawsuits regarding their 4-speeds in the Odyssey and Accord.
Quoted from mbaumle:That's another thing I'm kinda worried about. All I want out of a vehicle is to just drive it forever until it's beaten into the ground, but I also love all the bells and whistles that new cars have. I guess you can't have it all. Still, I trust that Honda will produce a reliable product. I feel that they've learned their lesson of building really awful transmissions from back in the early 2000s when they had several lawsuits regarding their 4-speeds in the Odyssey and Accord.
I just can't stand behind a CVT until we see models running well over 100k without reliability issues. They've tried them how many times back in the early 2000's and none ever stayed with the model/gen. However now Nissan and Honda on their small/mid suv's have gone full CVT, so we shall see. However I still like to be able to tow so that was a factor in buying my Escape. But like any car, some will and some will not.
Here is that Honda engine oil consumption
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/excessive-oil-consumption/
Multiple friends of mine have a CRV in that year range and they had the "test" done, but consuming 1 qrt of oil in under 3k miles isn't enough to warranty a replacement.....and now they are at 130k miles so they are no longer able to have it fixed under honda's extended "replacement". You have to loose about 3qts for them to replace, what bologna. I assume, they have remedied this issue, but there goes "long lasting" cars from that model line up. Needs a rebuild on those piston rings.
Quoted from northvibe:I just can't stand behind a CVT until we see models running well over 100k without reliability issues.
I agree, and I didn't know that these new CVTs had issues that kept them from running beyond 100K miles.
One thing I have noticed with nearly all of Honda's new flagship vehicles (Civic, Accord, CR-V, and to a lesser extent, the Fit) is that they all have the exact same standard powertrain. They all have the same engines, and the same transmissions. Across all those models. Of course, there are outliers with optional packages, but Honda is really pushing their L-series engines and transmissions on nearly everything now, which were all introduced in 2001, so they had plenty of time to perfect things.
Idk. Maybe I'm just wishfully thinking. I really like these new CR-Vs, but they have to be bulletproof for me to own. Questionable reliability of CVTs is the only reason I'm also considering the more traditional RAV-4.
Quoted from mbaumle:I agree, and I didn't know that these new CVTs had issues that kept them from running beyond 100K miles.
One thing I have noticed with nearly all of Honda's new flagship vehicles (Civic, Accord, CR-V, and to a lesser extent, the Fit) is that they all have the exact same standard powertrain. They all have the same engines, and the same transmissions. Across all those models. Of course, there are outliers with optional packages, but Honda is really pushing their L-series engines and transmissions on nearly everything now, which were all introduced in 2001, so they had plenty of time to perfect things.
Idk. Maybe I'm just wishfully thinking. I really like these new CR-Vs, but they have to be bulletproof for me to own. Questionable reliability of CVTs is the only reason I'm also considering the more traditional RAV-4.
It really comes down to lack of R&D, cost and benefits.
Snow mobiles and atv's have had them for a long time, but you're talking a sub 100hp unit that barely goes above 40-50mph or higher for much longer.
Now you get a heavy vehicle and then want a belt driven system to haul a vehicle for x miles. Saturn vue had it, the dodge caliber etc. ALso one major factor is you throw it in a vehicle people have expected to feel shift points....and they are gone. People flipped crap when they first started using them in the car market. I had a rental caliber with one, and I didn't mind it. In theory of operation of a CVT, you should get amazing benefits like mpg, efficiency etc but well they aren't good for hauling.
Honda is good at using the same engine/chassis in many platforms to keep cost down and tech high in their designs. I also like their engine bays are not cramped full of @#$#@$ so you can actually work on them.
If you don't need a new car in a year or two, it would be a good time to watch and see what happens with todays models.
Quoted from northvibe:I also like their engine bays are not cramped full of @#$#@$ so you can actually work on them.
Same here. I also like how their designs are modular. My parent's Odyssey's A/C clutch stator failed right before we were all heading out on a rather long roadtrip in it last summer, and I was expecting I'd have to sit there and pull the entire compressor out decompress the system and swap it for new, but Honda was kind enough to make it accessible, and the stator was connected via a simple connector. Hell, Honda even went so far as to mold in a little "shelf" under the engine block for me to rest the compressor on--bolts out--so I wouldn't have to hold the damn thing up while fishing around to re-bolt the compressor back onto the block. Thoughtful thinking all around.
I really hope I'll be able to wait another year on my current car, but things are all starting to slowly nickle and dime me. I'm just waiting for it to kick the bucket one of these days.
Quoted from mbaumle:Same here. I also like how their designs are modular. My parent's Odyssey's A/C clutch stator failed right before we were all heading out on a rather long roadtrip in it last summer, and I was expecting I'd have to sit there and pull the entire compressor out decompress the system and swap it for new, but Honda was kind enough to make it accessible, and the stator was connected via a simple connector. Hell, Honda even went so far as to mold in a little "shelf" under the engine block for me to rest the compressor on--bolts out--so I wouldn't have to hold the damn thing up while fishing around to re-bolt the compressor back onto the block. Thoughtful thinking all around.
I really hope I'll be able to wait another year on my current car, but things are all starting to slowly nickle and dime me. I'm just waiting for it to kick the bucket one of these days.
You know what we need, a new honda element 
What about a Toyota Highlander Hybrid LE? They look to have large capacity, 3 rows of seats, 4WD and get good gas mileage. I'm not really shopping for a new vehicle yet, but that's one I've sorta had my eye on.
Quoted from nwpinball:What about a Toyota Highlander Hybrid LE? They look to have large capacity, 3 rows of seats, 4WD and get good gas mileage. I'm not really shopping for a new vehicle yet, but that's one I've sorta had my eye on.
I have a 2014 Highlander and it fits 90s dmds except Gottlieb premiers. I believe that the standard dmd height is 31”, but the the premiums are 32” or higher. Make sure to take a tape measure with you when looking st buying a new pin hauler.
Does anyone in this thread have a Gottlieb premier? Can you measure the total height required?
Quoted from bluespin:I have a 2014 Highlander and it fits 90s dmds except Gottlieb premiers. I believe that the standard dmd height is 31”, but the the premiums are 32” or higher. Make sure to take a tape measure with you when looking st buying a new pin hauler.
Does anyone in this thread have a Gottlieb premier? Can you measure the total height required?
I used to have a few and had cars they wouldn't fit in...I swear I may of measured or posted in the other "car fit" thread....I'll see if I can find it, but ~33"
Quoted from nwpinball:What about a Toyota Highlander Hybrid LE? They look to have large capacity, 3 rows of seats, 4WD and get good gas mileage. I'm not really shopping for a new vehicle yet, but that's one I've sorta had my eye on.
Toyota had priced me out of the market completely, new or used.
Get a used Toyota Sequoia.I've had mine since 2010 and it's been great.Tows my 27 foot travel trailer.Lots of room for kids and their friends.Plenty of power.Turns on a dime.Never had a problem for 90'000 miles .I just change the oil and air filter every year .That's it.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:Toyota had priced me out of the market completely, new or used.
What's your price range? I'm seeing Toyota Highlanders with 75K miles in the 2008-2010 range for 15K-16K locally. I think that's what I'm going to be looking at a year or two from now. I figure the gas savings of the hybrid and how long Toyotas last will be worth it over my similar options.
Quoted from nwpinball:What's your price range? I'm seeing Toyota Highlanders with 75K miles in the 2008-2010 range for 15K-16K locally. I think that's what I'm going to be looking at a year or two from now. I figure the gas savings of the hybrid and how long Toyotas last will be worth it over my similar options.
That would be my preferred price range, 16k to 18k give or take a little. This is the problem with Toyota though, a 7 to 9 year old Highlander for 16k? I looked at a 3 year old Chevy Traverse this summer for 17.5k and it only had 26,000 miles on it. That is what I mean by Toyota being horribly over priced. I just could never bring myself to buy a 7 to 9 year old mid sized suv for 16k. The 3 year old 30,000 mile Highlanders only sell for a few thousand less than new. I could literally buy an equivalent vehicle in year and mileage from any other manufacturer and throw in a complete engine and transmission replacement for the same overall price.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:That would be my preferred price range, 16k to 18k give or take a little. This is the problem with Toyota though, a 7 to 9 year old Highlander for 16k? I looked at a 3 year old Chevy Traverse this summer for 17.5k and it only had 26,000 miles on it. That is what I mean by Toyota being horribly over priced. I just could never bring myself to buy a 7 to 9 year old mid sized suv for 16k. The 3 year old 30,000 mile Highlanders only sell for a few thousand less than new. I could literally buy an equivalent vehicle in year and mileage from any other manufacturer and throw in a complete engine and transmission replacement for the same overall price.
The big suv's like those or the tahoe are super "overpriced" aka they maintain their value like crazy. IMO having that old of a rig will need maintenance, and I'd rather not put that much in.
The good thing about a gmc/chevy or ford even dodge, is that after the 1-2 yrs their resale is very reasonable. And all the newer ones are pretty darn reliable. If you are interested in the dodge durango I can ask my mopar mechanic how those transmissions are holding up.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:That would be my preferred price range, 16k to 18k give or take a little. This is the problem with Toyota though, a 7 to 9 year old Highlander for 16k? I looked at a 3 year old Chevy Traverse this summer for 17.5k and it only had 26,000 miles on it. That is what I mean by Toyota being horribly over priced. I just could never bring myself to buy a 7 to 9 year old mid sized suv for 16k. The 3 year old 30,000 mile Highlanders only sell for a few thousand less than new. I could literally buy an equivalent vehicle in year and mileage from any other manufacturer and throw in a complete engine and transmission replacement for the same overall price.
You end up paying more in the end.My sister in law bought a GMC Acadia when they first came out.Transmission and power steering went out and ended up costing them $7000 bucks.Toyotas hold their value better because they are better.I learned.
Another advantage of the Japanese cars (Toyota, Camry, Nissan, Infiniti, etc.) is that you can buy rebuilt engines with only 30K miles (prior to rebuild) cheap. Japan passed a law in the late 80s or early 90s that said that when a car reached 30K miles it couldn't be registered, and a rebuilt engine couldn't be used. The car owners would buy brand new engines, and the used engines would be rebuilt and shipped to the US where they are sold cheap. My engine went out on my Toyota pickup in the early nineties. My mechanic quotes $3500 to rebuild the engine. I bought a used engine and had him install it for $1800. Recently a mechanic told me that his brother's Infiniti SUV engine went out. He bought a rebuilt engine with only 30K miles for $2K, and his brother-in-law installed it for him.
I'm a little late to the party, but I always notice with these questions that people tend to have fierce brand loyalty, no matter what side of the coin you're on.
With that said, if the choices are the Acadia or the Pilot, I would choose the Acadia personally. I just think it looks nicer on the outside, and I have had good luck with GM before. However, when I was looking for a new SUV, nothing anybody made really grabbed my attention. Until I saw a Druango R/T. not too big, agressive styling, can seat 6 ADULTS (7 if configured as such) with no problem. I bought a used 2015 and have loved it for the year I have had it so far. It has a V8 so if super fuel economy is your thing, then this will likely nto be for you, but as I said it's spacious, comfortable in all 3 rows, can tow 8000 lbs, and really scoots when you need it to. Just another option. You can get a V6 but that gives you less towing capability.
Oh, and it can haul a pinball machine, and still have room for the driver and 2 passengers.
Chris
Unfortunately it'll depreciate like a FCA product, which is the bad news, based on the decades of terrible reliability.
Quoted from icust298:based on the decades of terrible reliability.
My wife and I owned three consecutive Durango's. We put well over 100,000 miles on all of them and never had any issues with any of them...great vehicles...especially with the Hemi.
Quoted from Astropin:My wife and I owned three consecutive Durango's. We put well over 100,000 miles on all of them and never had any issues with any of them...great vehicles...especially with the Hemi.
Glad you've had good luck with them. They're still consistently ranked at/near the bottom of reliability, which impacts their resale value (Wranglers excluded). They do make attractive looking vehicles for the most part, and if you've had a good experience with their vehicles, that's awesome. Most people though are unwilling to take a risk with a higher mileage FCA product like they would with a similar Toyota or Honda product.
http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2017-vehicle-dependability-study
Whether you believe it or not, the reliability issue is there and it impacts your resale value. It's a reputation that's been earned for decades.
Quoted from icust298:Unfortunately it'll depreciate like a FCA product, which is the bad news, based on the decades of terrible reliability.
Since I don't change vehicles every 3 years lke many do, I will run this into the ground. I had 177K on my Trailblazer and owned that 11 years, 180K on the Cavalier before that. PLUS, the Durango has a lifetime (yes, lifetime) warranty on most major mechanical parts. And this, while an FCA vehicle, has a surprising number of Mercedes parts in it yet. Holdouts from the Daimler Chrysler years. And for the record, personally the worst cars I have owned, by far, were Toyota and Mitsubishi.
So there. LOL
But I digress. I was only pointing out another option, not trying to derail a thread.
Chris
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:Since I don't change vehicles every 3 years lke many do, I will run this into the ground. I had 177K on my Trailblazer and owned that 11 years, 180K on the Cavalier before that. PLUS, the Durango has a lifetime (yes, lifetime) warranty on most major mechanical parts. And this, while an FCA vehicle, has a surprising number of Mercedes parts in it yet. Holdouts from the Daimler Chrysler years. And for the record, personally the worst cars I have owned, by far, were Toyota and Mitsubishi.
So there. LOL
But I digress. I was only pointing out another option, not trying to derail a thread.
Chris
Glad they work out for you guys, everyone has a different need in a vehicle. I thought pointing out that if you buy an FCA product (Wrangler excluded) that you can expect to see a major drop in the value of your car. That, as he noted doesn't happen on a Toyota, as their used prices remain very high. That's because for decades they've been known as the most reliable choice out there. It's certainly not because they make the coolest or most original vehicles. Also, I would imagine you'd have trouble with a Mitsubishi, they're not exactly known as world beaters of reliability in the automotive world.
Quoted from icust298:Glad they work out for you guys, everyone has a different need in a vehicle. I thought pointing out that if you buy an FCA product (Wrangler excluded) that you can expect to see a major drop in the value of your car. That, as he noted doesn't happen on a Toyota, as their used prices remain very high. That's because for decades they've been known as the most reliable choice out there. It's certainly not because they make the coolest or most original vehicles. Also, I would imagine you'd have trouble with a Mitsubishi, they're not exactly known as world beaters of reliability in the automotive world.
So I just ran the numbers on the current used value of a 2011 Toyota 4Runner vs a Dodge Durango with similar options and high mileage (145000). The Toyota is worth about 4k more than the Durango...and overall the Durango had more features. I still would buy a Durango.
I bought a used 2006 4 runner with high km (240000km) and it was still pricey, but 3 years later and zero repairs I'm glad I did.
It now has 305000 km ( that's 190,000 miles) and everything is still original except the brakes, tires and timingbelt.
All the drivetrain front end, wheel bearings ball joints etc are all original and still tight. That's why used Toyota's cost more they break down way less.
Quoted from Astropin:So I just ran the numbers on the current used value of a 2011 Toyota 4Runner vs a Dodge Durango with similar options and high mileage (145000). The Toyota is worth about 4k more than the Durango...and overall the Durango had more features. I still would buy a Durango.
And the toyota will last way longer and require less work.
Buy what you want, just don't think that Dodge is making a similarly reliable vehicle to Toyota, that's not objectively the case or what the numbers say. I've owned plenty of domestics and imports, I've got a problem buying cars similar to switching out pins. Each time, we've known what we're getting, that's all I'm advocating. Know what your options are, and the pluses and minuses. The negative on the Dodge is the reliability, the negative on the Toyota is they're more expensive on the used market.
Seriously glad that it worked out for you with the Durango, that's what matters, it fit your needs.
Quoted from Mitch:And the toyota will last way longer and require less work.
I disagree. The toyota tacoma had frame rusting issues like CRAZY! THey still may have them. They had to replace THOUSANDS of frames on old and new pickups.
The stereotype is there, but isn't always true. You cannot brand an entire manufacture as the best, they usually only have 1-2 good vehicles. In this day and age, it really is the luck of the draw and choosing a solid vehicle to start with.
Right now on a car forum some guy is arguing that a Gottlieb System 3 playfield holds up better than that of a Williams/Bally WPC game.
Quoted from nwpinball:What about a Toyota Highlander Hybrid LE? They look to have large capacity, 3 rows of seats, 4WD and get good gas mileage. I'm not really shopping for a new vehicle yet, but that's one I've sorta had my eye on.
My wife has the 2015 Highlander hybrid which we bought new. Very tough to find and we ulimately ended up having to special order. Great vehicle so far. The 3rd row seating comes in handy around town and for trips less than an hour but I would not want to be back there for a long trip.
The other thing is that it's the last thing you want if you're looking for a bargain. The gas mileage is great (we get 24 mpg living in hills and mountains without even trying to be efficient) but you pay a LOT more up front.
Quoted from Jam_Burglar:My wife has the 2015 Highlander hybrid which we bought new. Very tough to find and we ulimately ended up having to special order. Great vehicle so far. The 3rd row seating comes in handy around town and for trips less than an hour but I would not want to be back there for a long trip.
The other thing is that it's the last thing you want if you're looking for a bargain. The gas mileage is great (we get 24 mpg living in hills and mountains without even trying to be efficient) but you pay a LOT more up front.
Yeah,they do not take much off of the price but they know you are going to buy it any way because you want QUALITY.
I'm late to this thread and don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but Car and Driver did a recent comparison of the class of SUV you are looking at. The Mazda CX-9 was the winner.
I'm looking at buying a 2015 GMC Acadia SLE-2 with 21,000 miles. I've never bought a GMC, a little nervous. Am I crazy for going with GMC? They want $24,000. A similar priced Highlander is more around $36,000. As much as I've loved Toyota I just can't justify that excessive used pricing. The new ones are price around $42,000 and they want $35,000 for a 3 year old used? Ridiculous. Now my 2007 Camry has no air conditioning and it's an $1,800 repair (yes, I know it's winter but ya know the seasons do change back to summer.) The rear brakes are going to crap again after only 1 year. There is a puddle of coolent in the garage every morning (radiator is brand new). My engine oil was down 1/2 quart this time around, so it's burning it most likely. Now I'm asking myself why I've always paid more for Toyotas.
The new gen 3.6 is a pretty solid engine, the 6spd trans is really solid and is the joint one with ford.
You aren’t crazy to go gmc, the price is decent and they have been reliably generally speaking.
Quoted from northvibe:The new gen 3.6 is a pretty solid engine, the 6spd trans is really solid and is the joint one with ford.
You aren’t crazy to go gmc, the price is decent and they have been reliably generally speaking.
If my Camry is leaking or burning oil, then I've lost faith in this so called superior Toyota attitude. Starting to think it's all bogus. Our camry has 96,000 miles on it and has been in a heated garage it's whole life, really babied. Too much crap compounding.
I'm a little confused about the new GMC Acadia lineup. When I was in the lot the new ones were all 4 cylinder and smaller. Did they completely change these? Is 2015 the last year they were V6 and bigger?
Quoted from pcprogrammer:If my Camry is leaking or burning oil, then I've lost faith in this so called superior Toyota attitude. Starting to think it's all bogus. Our camry has 96,000 miles on it and has been in a heated garage it's whole life, really babied. Too much crap compounding.
I'm a little confused about the new GMC Acadia lineup. When I was in the lot the new ones were all 4 cylinder and smaller. Did they completely change these? Is 2015 the last year they were V6 and bigger?
Toyota made good ,reasonably priced vehicles 20 years ago . They are still good , but they are no longer reasonbly priced .Today just about any new vehicle will be as reliable as a Toyota ,and cost less.
Quoted from trilogybeer:Toyota made good ,reasonably priced vehicles 20 years ago . They are still good , but they are no longer reasonbly priced .Today just about any new vehicle will be as reliable as a Toyota ,and cost less.
That's the conclusion I'm starting to come to. Maybe with the exception of Ford, haha. All kids of little things are going wrong with the Camry, I've lost track at this point. To top it off, I was changing the engine air filter last night and one of the bolts snapped that holds the cover on, the bottom half is stuck in the threads still. Really irritated me. The air conditioner is what really sucks, expensive repair and a PITA to even attempt to do it yourself.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:If my Camry is leaking or burning oil, then I've lost faith in this so called superior Toyota attitude. Starting to think it's all bogus. Our camry has 96,000 miles on it and has been in a heated garage it's whole life, really babied. Too much crap compounding.
I'm a little confused about the new GMC Acadia lineup. When I was in the lot the new ones were all 4 cylinder and smaller. Did they completely change these? Is 2015 the last year they were V6 and bigger?
The 4 cylinder is for the fleet and hwy drivers, that don't need to tow or worry about acceleration, just gas mileage. The v6's or turbo 4 cylinders are to meet the needs of towing and acceleration etc.
If you ever plan to tow I would go with the bigger engine. I did with my Escape (2.0 turbo awd) and even with a trailer I can get up and go like a champ. GMC has not employed a 4 cylinder and big engine in their suv's until somewhat recently, 2010 ish? Ford has done this since 2001 with the escape. GMC had the arcadia with the v6 since its launch, but with the demand and mpg's, they've brought on the mix of the two. I like having the option, but you just have to be an intelligent buyer before hand so you don't buy the wrong one and later regret it.
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