(Topic ID: 215668)

** NEW tester for Bally/Stern & Zaccaria displays **

By gianfri

5 years ago


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  • 32 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by gianfri
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    #1 5 years ago

    **UPDATED on 06-October-2018**

    The new version of the display tester work on Bally/Stern & Zaccaria displays!

    **********

    Dear friends and pinball lovers,

    it has been a very long time I have started working on this new project but due other priorities and project I have been constantly postponing it.

    As some of you have already seen that I normally test my LED displays with some automatic routines and I started being asked if such a tester would have been available for sale.
    Initially I didn't really want to dig into it but I finally decided to develop something more user friendly, without hanging wires and robust enough to be provided to anyone else without worrying about any possible wiring failures and headaches.
    The most complicated part was the molex header plug in method because I didn't want to use what it's currently available on the market so I had to find something really specific until I succeeded.
    Then I needed an easy way to power it up, cables, DC jack and so on...
    ...finally why not to have some LED indicators to make it more fancy and sexy?
    And finally all this ended up to what I'm presenting today.

    This is the previous Bally/Stern display tester:

    This is the brand new Bally/Stern & Zaccaria display tester:

    I don't know if it will be a success story but I know that I'm happy to have produced it.

    Now coming to the details:

    This is an automatic tool which runs 4 different cycles of tests in order to test all combinations and segments of your plasma or LED Bally/Stern displays.
    The different cycles are indicated by the BarGraph LED installed

    This tester is compact and easy to use, you just need to plug it on the J1 header of the display and provide the power.

    Two options are available:

    - For LED displays you can power it up using the USB cable provided with the kit and an USB power source;
    - For old plasma displays you must provide the HV from an external power source in addition to the USB power.

    This tester is portable and can be used wherever you want, if on LED displays, as no HV is needed.
    The USB power cord gives you the possibility to connect and power it from a normal USB port (power bank, laptop, PC, USB power supply, ...)

    A 2 pins 3.96mm (1.56 inches) male header is provided in order to help plugging the HV for the correct functioning of the original plasma displays.
    This tester is sold already assembled and tested.

    This tester includes:
    - The main tester board;
    - 2 pins male header 3.96mm;
    - An USB power cord.
    - Assembly costs

    Price for the Bally/Stern version is 45$
    Price for the Bally/Stern & Zaccaria version is 55$

    If you think you would like to have it just send me a PM and I'll reply to you with the order details.

    Gianfri

    _________________________________________
    Pinball Solutions
    www.pinballsolutions.eu
    LED displays for Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Williams/Data East and much more... visit our website.

    #2 5 years ago

    That is a great idea.

    #3 5 years ago

    wow.. take my money..

    #4 5 years ago

    Pm sent I want one.

    #5 5 years ago

    Thanks folks, receiving a lot of messages and requests which shows that you're really interested.

    This tool is awesome and you'll be the first ones having the chance to try it and eventually give me some feedback and suggestions.

    BTW
    Last 5 testers to go and then there will be some delay for the new run.

    Gianfri

    _________________________________________
    Pinball Solutions
    http://www.pinballsolutions.eu
    LED displays for Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Williams/Data East and much more... visit our website.

    #6 5 years ago

    Payment sent

    #7 5 years ago

    I can't seem to get to your website, anyone else having trouble?

    #8 5 years ago
    Quoted from PinballNZ:

    I can't seem to get to your website, anyone else having trouble?

    Hi
    That's quite strange because the website works quite well.

    Please send me a PM with the error message if you can.

    Cheers
    Gianfri

    #9 5 years ago

    Dear folks,

    some of you asked me where to take the HV
    Well, several options, either you have a generic DC source between 165v and 185v or you use an existing pinball machine power board.

    In my video I used two crocodile cables and I connected them to the HV header of a Zaccaria power board which works with around 170v output.

    The only important thing is to avoid any accidental short between the two leads.

    Gianfri

    _________________________________________
    Pinball Solutions
    www.pinballsolutions.eu
    LED displays for Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Williams/Data East and much more... visit our website.

    #10 5 years ago

    Many many thanks to all of you who have supported me in this project.

    The first run of the display tester has been sold out.

    Now waiting for some feedback while working already on the next run since it looks like there is some interest out there.

    _________________________________________
    Pinball Solutions
    http://www.pinballsolutions.eu
    LED displays for Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Williams/Data East and much more... visit our website.

    #11 5 years ago

    gianfri I received my tester (great packaging) and will be using it this weekend. Little too busy at work this week but will let you know how things go this weekend.
    -Mike

    2 weeks later
    #12 5 years ago

    Finally I have a 3 day holiday weekend and can work on my machines. This tester is great to have as it eliminates the need for a machine. It also gives you the ability to test just the display alone to see if its a display issue or a signal from the machine problem. I think for me this has already paid for itself.
    I ended up going on ebay to get a pretty cheap transformer from a machine to have high voltage at my desk. It's time I get a little more organized and set myself up with a better work station to do more of my own repairs.
    Side note of I have not used this with any led displays and only HV displays but I will be putting together some led displays that will be converted from out gassed displays from a kit from another well known pinsider.
    Thanks again for making this display tester.
    -Mike

    2 weeks later
    #13 5 years ago

    Hi Mike,

    many thanks for your feedback, I think I missed it out that's why I didn't reply earlier
    I already had several feddbacks but any other missing feedback will be welcomed.

    One comment was about the speed of the different cycles, I'm open to any speed change but before doing it I would like to know if you think this would make the testing process a bit slower and maybe boring.
    Being the developer of this tester I have my own opinion but I know that owner always sees the product as the better possible one ever
    So feel free to give yours.

    Gianfri

    #14 5 years ago
    Quoted from gianfri:

    One comment was about the speed of the different cycles, I'm open to any speed change but before doing it I would like to know if you think this would make the testing process a bit slower and maybe boring.

    Remember that we are just home pinball enthusiasts and not a repair shop, so fast speed for the different cycles is irrelevant as we are not trying to repair these and hurry to get back in the mail for customers.
    I think the cycles were a little too fast for my preference. I would not know how to explain in technical terms how fast or slow it would need to be beyond thinking it was say 15 to 20% to fast for me. This is only my opinion, it is still a fantastic tester.
    -Mike

    2 months later
    #15 5 years ago

    Hi all,

    I would like to thank al the ones who came back to me with comments and feedbacks. (Of course some never came back but it's never too late!)
    I have been extremely busy with all the ongoing projects therefore I didn't have much time to work on the next release but...
    ...I'm ready now to present some of your requests.

    To be honest there is just one comment which is the recurring one: reduce the animation speed in order to have it less in attraction mode and more in repair mode

    I'll tell you more and post a video later on.

    Gianfri
    _________________________________________
    Pinball Solutions
    www.pinballsolutions.eu
    LED displays for Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Williams/Data East and much more... visit our website.

    #16 5 years ago
    Quoted from gianfri:

    I would like to thank al the ones who came back ..Of course some never came back ..I have been extremely busy

    sorry I am one of them.. its still on the bench in the box ..
    im not sure if 'extremely busy or terribly disorgansed' is more accurate in my case but im glad its not too late ... soon soon ..

    #17 5 years ago

    Hi there, I can understand because it's the same here
    I have been sooooo busy on tons of projects that sometimes I realize I don't have enough time to do what I have to do and things remain aside.

    Some of you already know, some don't, but we're now producing all range of LED displays for almost all brands, Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Bally/Midway, Williams/Data East and this is really A LOOOOT of work!
    We are now covering all display models from System 3 to System 11 and we are currently working on the aesthetical details for all our models in order to have them even nicer.

    That said, it can be easily understandable why I'm not able to invest more time on already existing projects:
    diagnostic tools are nice to have and give satisfaction on the way others can enjoy and exploit them even if market is very limited but they don't give economic return, they just pay themselves back for all the work you have been doing from prototyping to production passing by testing and studying

    Coming back soon with more news.
    Gianfri

    _________________________________________
    Pinball Solutions
    www.pinballsolutions.eu
    LED displays for Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Williams/Data East and much more... visit our website.

    #18 5 years ago
    Quoted from gianfri:

    Of course some never came back but it's never too late!)

    I'm sorry I'm also one of these people. Just been swamped with other stuff lately. Haven't had much time for pinball repair. Do a lot more in the winter.

    #19 5 years ago

    So, here we are, that's a short video of the new tester revision, I hope you'll like it.
    The quality is not the best, digits are a bit blury but, believe me, in real they are ok

    #20 5 years ago
    Quoted from Mitch:

    I'm sorry I'm also one of these people. Just been swamped with other stuff lately. Haven't had much time for pinball repair. Do a lot more in the winter.

    I understand, let me know as soon as you test it, I'm still tuning the code for the new release.

    Gianfri

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from gianfri:

    That said, it can be easily understandable why I'm not able to invest more time on already existing projects:
    diagnostic tools are nice to have and give satisfaction on the way others can enjoy and exploit them even if market is very limited but they don't give economic return, they just pay themselves back for all the work you have been doing from prototyping to production passing by testing and studying

    Warned about that in regard to diagnostic tools myself. You really have to do it because you have your own need. Best case scenario there's a few dozen orders right off the bat for something new. But after that, it's a trickle of sales. There's far less people fixing up their own boards than you might think there are. And despite attempting to grow the market there for the early years of doing PCBs.. it's still an extremely niche market.

    I'm not even sure I got paid back for time on some projects. I WILL NOT be doing any more diagnostic tools unless I have my own strong need for it anyway and it's something that is relatively low-hassle for others to understand and use. Personally I steered away from a tool to work with plasma displays since mains voltage / high voltage = liability risk here in the US and I tend to play with caution there. But that said, I'm interested in this product for my own use.

    I'd love to see a few improvements. Slowing of the display animations of course, but rather than it cycle through ALL of them.. having a button to cycle through the following (each looped until the button is hit to cycle onto the next MODE).

    1) Increment 0-9 on a single digit, stepping through each of the 7 digits
    2) All digits incremented from 0-9
    3) Simulated "attract mode" with about the same delay as in-game, cycling through HIGH GAME TO DATE and a score (could be hard-coded value)
    4) Simulated "game play mode" that scored random - 10pt, 100pt, 1000pts at intervals
    5) A mode like you currently have that cycles though several other modes including the "Knight Rider Car Attract Mode"

    It could even make sense to have a mode that pulsed individual segments on each digit.. A,B,C,D,E,F,G in sort of a Skeeball-like chase "attract mode" pattern.

    My only additional desire, since I don't know how the multiplexing (if any) is being done.. is that it follows a multiplexing routine similar to the Bally Theory Of Operation. If lighting up all the digits causes much dimmer digits than when a single digit is lit, that's a problem for me. That's because some displays are built with the multiplexing in-mind and won't survive without multiplexing happening. I'm not sure if plasma displays would fall into that category, but I'd not want to see segment burning happening just from testing a plasma display out because the multiplexing is at a slower rate or not happening at all.

    I'd have tried doing something like this myself, but I'm not a whiz with PIC programming and the time cost would be too much for the little return that would be there. But you seem to have a decent handle on PIC programming and already offer a product.. so those are my suggested improvements!

    #22 5 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    Warned about that in regard to diagnostic tools myself. You really have to do it because you have your own need. Best case scenario there's a few dozen orders right off the bat for something new. But after that, it's a trickle of sales. There's far less people fixing up their own boards than you might think there are. And despite attempting to grow the market there for the early years of doing PCBs.. it's still an extremely niche market.
    I'm not even sure I got paid back for time on some projects. I WILL NOT be doing any more diagnostic tools unless I have my own strong need for it anyway and it's something that is relatively low-hassle for others to understand and use. Personally I steered away from a tool to work with plasma displays since mains voltage / high voltage = liability risk here in the US and I tend to play with caution there. But that said, I'm interested in this product for my own use.
    I'd love to see a few improvements. Slowing of the display animations of course, but rather than it cycle through ALL of them.. having a button to cycle through the following (each looped until the button is hit to cycle onto the next MODE).
    1) Increment 0-9 on a single digit, stepping through each of the 7 digits
    2) All digits incremented from 0-9
    3) Simulated "attract mode" with about the same delay as in-game, cycling through HIGH GAME TO DATE and a score (could be hard-coded value)
    4) Simulated "game play mode" that scored random - 10pt, 100pt, 1000pts at intervals
    5) A mode like you currently have that cycles though several other modes including the "Knight Rider Car Attract Mode"
    It could even make sense to have a mode that pulsed individual segments on each digit.. A,B,C,D,E,F,G in sort of a Skeeball-like chase "attract mode" pattern.
    My only additional desire, since I don't know how the multiplexing (if any) is being done.. is that it follows a multiplexing routine similar to the Bally Theory Of Operation. If lighting up all the digits causes much dimmer digits than when a single digit is lit, that's a problem for me. That's because some displays are built with the multiplexing in-mind and won't survive without multiplexing happening. I'm not sure if plasma displays would fall into that category, but I'd not want to see segment burning happening just from testing a plasma display out because the multiplexing is at a slower rate or not happening at all.
    I'd have tried doing something like this myself, but I'm not a whiz with PIC programming and the time cost would be too much for the little return that would be there. But you seem to have a decent handle on PIC programming and already offer a product.. so those are my suggested improvements!

    Dear Wayne,

    thanks for your comments and yes, as I said I'm not going to concentrate too much efforts on this kind of products because it's not going to pay back.
    I think that we all can imagine nicer features but some are just out of the target due to limitations of the technology and dimensions I use.

    The HV risk it's a concern I have, but the only thing I can say is to write on the guide to pay attention and be careful when playing with 180v, touching pin1 would give some nice and pleasant moments to the one touching

    The current video has the slowed down animations compared to the first version, the question is: is it enough?

    As from your points:
    1) it's easy to implement, I already cycle from 0 to 9, I can add the way around from 9 to 0
    2) already there
    3) could be done but a bit more work and even if nice to see I have some doubts on the added value on repair because those displays have just a decoder which when defect is going to give visible signs already with those testing cycles.
    4) could be done, again a bit more work on coding which I'm afraid I don't have
    5) didn't understand what should be different from the current "Knight Rider Car mode"

    For the other points, the switch to cycle could be nice but I have used all the possibilities I had and I should sacrifice other things to do that.

    The tester uses multiplexing but I never heard about the Bally theory.

    Last detail on single segments to light on, that's on my knowledge impossible, as the tester uses the decoder to control the segments and that decoder is just a basic BtoD decoder which doesn't control single segments independently.

    And for more, my partner has developed a much complex tester for all kind of Williams system 3 to 11 led displays, Bally/Midway led displays and DOT matrix led displays, it's a completely different product and it's used only for our internal needs but... maybe one day we will do the same I did with this Zaccaria/Bally display tester.

    Gianfri

    #23 5 years ago

    Btw I have omitted to say that the new version of the display tester has been expanded in order to be able to test both Zaccaria and Bally/Stern displays

    A micro switch will allow you to select the Brand you want to test.

    In the following video you'll see a test on Zaccaria displays, two details:
    - I have mixed 3 different Zaccaria models to show the fact that it works on all models using a multi connector flat ribbon cable
    - some displays are coming from a stock I have recently acquired and you can see that 2 are defective.

    The tester gave me the opportunity to detect a problem on the digit selection of the 8 digits display which uses only 4 digits twice (digit selection is a binary combination and this means that one bit is not correctly decoded)
    The other display has 2 dead digits.

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from gianfri:

    Last detail on single segments to light on, that's on my knowledge impossible, as the tester uses the decoder to control the segments and that decoder is just a basic BtoD decoder which doesn't control single segments independently.

    Yes you're right, momentary forgot what was possible there. The BCD is just able to light a number. Scratch that suggestion.

    Quoted from gianfri:

    And for more, my partner has developed a much complex tester for all kind of Williams system 3 to 11 led displays, Bally/Midway led displays and DOT matrix led displays, it's a completely different product and it's used only for our internal needs but... maybe one day we will do the same I did with this Zaccaria/Bally display tester.

    A tester for DOT MATRIX displays would be neat. Not pleasant plugging an unknown DMD into a machine and praying nothing goes up in smoke.

    2 weeks later
    #25 5 years ago
    Quoted from gianfri:

    The current video has the slowed down animations compared to the first version, the question is: is it enough?

    When it's counting up/down individual digits I would still like it slower than in video shown.
    -Mike

    #26 5 years ago
    Quoted from Grizlyrig:

    When it's counting up/down individual digits I would still like it slower than in video shown.
    -Mike

    thanks for feedback, I'll do it

    1 month later
    #27 5 years ago

    And here we are:

    the second version of the display tester is ready.

    As discussed before this tester is capable to test both Bally/Stern and Zaccaria displays.
    It works with an external USB 5v power supply and with the HV needed for the classic plasma displays.
    LED displays do not need HV therefore you can use the tester with a simple USB power source like a power bank and you can even use it in the middle of a forest in case you would feel this need

    I have reduced the speed of the different cycles but didn't want to have it too boring too therefore I hope you'll like it:

    4 months later
    #28 5 years ago

    Dear pinsiders,

    fos some of you it could be interesting to read this discussion about the external HV power source for powering the plasma displays while testing them with the Zaccaria/Bally display tester:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cheap-power-for-bally-stern-displays-will-this-work

    _________________________________________
    Pinball Solutions
    www.pinballsolutions.eu
    LED displays for Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Williams/Data East and much more... visit our website.

    2 months later
    #29 5 years ago

    Finally started using my tester. Works amazing on LEDs, but on my high voltage I'm having something weird happen on the displays.
    Using a Nixon clock power supply putting out 200 v DC.
    Keep getting a voltage jump? On the far left digit on all 5 displays I tested.

    20190420_105630 (resized).jpg20190420_105630 (resized).jpgreceived_2111066665645449 (resized).jpegreceived_2111066665645449 (resized).jpeg
    #30 4 years ago

    Hi Mitch, I would avoid working with 200VDC, try to lower it to 170VDC.

    Gianfri

    #31 4 years ago

    Hello folks,

    the new version of the tester has arrived.

    What's new? Actually not much

    I have just updated the PCB layout, moved the Bally/Zaccaria selector, corrected a small PCB mistake and added few warnings.

    If you're hesitating... that's the right moment to take the right decision and buy one

    gianfri

    _________________________________________
    Pinball Solutions
    www.pinballsolutions.eu
    LED displays for Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Williams/Data East and much more... visit our website.

    3 weeks later
    #32 4 years ago

    Hello again,

    here the next bunch on testers ready to ship

    20190512_103402 (resized).jpg20190512_103402 (resized).jpg

    On the left a Bally LED display, on the right a Zaccaria 8D LED display.

    _________________________________________
    Pinball Solutions
    www.pinballsolutions.eu
    LED displays for Zaccaria, Bally/Stern, Williams/Data East and much more... visit our website.

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