For anyone new to the hobby, this cannot be repeated enough. Avoid the latest shiny NIB releases that get all the attention, and all the risk that comes with purchasing them. Plus the NIB costs are getting out of hand. Instead buy something that is already proven to have fun gameplay, has great code, and is readily available to play firsthand before buying. You'll likely keep some money in your pocket as well, and have little worries about your purchase. You can't go wrong with this mindset.

If I had to buy a Stern today, it would be TWD. My last purchase Stern purchase was an IMVE last summer. The latest Stern/JJP releases aren't even on my radar anymore. I'd only consider them after the code is complete, and it really actually maters who is coding/designing. It took years of hands-on gameplay for me to come to this realization.

And never forget the golden rule: LYMAN + BORG = PINBALL BLISS

Full Disclosure: I did buy a TNA, but that is a completely different beast altogether from the other companies releases. I have a thing for early 80s Bally/Williams games & brutal gameplay. TNA scratches that itch....and them some!

Buhhhh hahahahahahahh Batman 66 should not be in good or great category. they shit-the-bed on that game all around. Xmen is better but still not a great game.

I I had to buy one (pretending I didn't own any), it would be MET. It offers all kinds of pinball goodness. You can play it simple or complex, and that's a cool trick.

MET Pro or Prem?

Either, I love the hammer personally but the pro is a fantastic player.

I really LOVE the hammer feature - so cool! So glad my MET has it and no regrets having a Premium.

So did MET start as a dud?

No sir. You "never BM's" have missed out and shit the bed yourselves!

It's awesome. And getting greater.

Wolvie head and left side of PF keeps Xmen from being great.

Too funny!!!! Granted early people that snatched all the LE's and SLE's TOOK massive amount of shit on here, but my sheats are clean, and love the game!!!...

So what does BM66 have?

Best integrated theme on a pinball machine and its not even close
Adam West and Burt Ward callouts (whiners loudly complain on every pin without it, POTC, SW, DP, etc)
3 seasons of full blown TV assets to pull from and its awesome so far
Music and sound are phenomenal
Layout is simplistically genius
Lyman F ing Sheats (nuff said)

So you can STUFF the F out of a pinball machine and it might be great too, BUT all of the above make it "special"

Pinball is about FUN and that is the bottom line.

Talk about BOM, talk about this or that but BM66 has the "IT factor"

Got that right!

Cold partial quote ...Tuna.......all good....I kinda knew this thread would drift around this pin, hopefully Op was sincere with his inquiry.

No desire on my end to debate on this one anymore...I think BM66 fits Op's request perfectly, and will leave it at that....

I think you forgot the S and the H...

Glad you love it iceman, but BM66 is a clunkfest. Glad it has lyman for everyone that overpaid to have one of them, but no matter how much licensed assets you have and even a great coder... nobody can fix that layout.

A grilled cheese sandwich is simple but pure greatness! Kind of like peanut butter and jelly. I appreciate the simple things in life, even a grilled Tuna sandwich.

Put it all together and its "delightful"....

Different strokes Hilton but a "clunkfest" it is NOT. Furthest thing from it. If anything its too easy and smooth. Maybe you need to play better.

TWD is the definition of a clunkfest if you can't hit your shots.

BM66 is definitely not a clunkfest. Hilton must have bad aim.

Wrong

I will agree with you there, but sorry played 5 of them now and they are all the same. Just not fun to shoot.

I thought it did. The Crank it up modes weren't implemented until about a year after release, so no End of Line either. Basically the game was all multiball, Fuel, and constant 500,000 scores from the mystery scoop. I had a pro early on and got bored with it quick. Now I have a premium and love it.

Forgot about that......that mystery hole on Met was embarrassing for awhile.....

Meant no harm or misrepresentation - thus the elipsis and the smiley face.

I'm kind of torn on BM66. The theme hits home for me as I recall eagerly watching the show as a kid when it was originally on ABC in primetime. As such, the artwork and video clips are great. The game's less than compelling playfield layout and ridiculous cost are negatives for me though.

Comparing release code to current code - Batman 66 has to win this title, hands down.

Yes, there was some issue with shots (mostly left orbit), but fixed if you relocate a cable and move the left blue pad on the left ramp from outside to inside. It would have been nice if the GADGET stand ups were drops though. But I'll bet no other pin in the LCD era will ever integration theme / property assets as completely as BM66.

I also have to agree with the assessment of IM - that went from "you've got to be kidding me" to "holy crap" after realizing that the simple layout didn't make it a bad game.

As jgentry said, either one. They both play fantastic. Personally I'm not wild about the hammer. Cool trick, but it blocks my sight (bad height). So I have a Pro. But they are both great.

In my opinion... yup. It was lacking flair, and before CIU it felt like a bashfest to me. It didn't have an overarching objective to go after. Crank It Up helped it all make sense. Before then you were just playing pinball. But instantly that added an exquisite tension to the game. Losing the ball during CIU makes me want to kick the game in the nuts. It increases the stakes because it takes work to get there, and it's not easy. You only need 5 shots to finish a CIU mode (4 things and the scoop), but the score for it will suck, so you keep going. And then you just need to double it before escaping, and you drain off that shot. But if you don't, big jackpot for the collect.

Do or Die Hurry Up, Destroy the Ring... similar modes to CIU that have that kind of feeling. You don't want to miss, and that makes the shots even harder.

Met survived for awHile because the art was such a welcomed thing and it plays great. But shit man a year for CIU modes it def became a dud.
My first NIB and I waited until the modes were put in there.

There is only one Stern game I consider a dud, and that is WWE. It is the only game I cannot seem to get into, and the upper ring does nothing for me. I do have several friends that own it, and they say they love it, especially their children. One man's trash is another man's treasure. All in all-there are no Stern 'Duds'.

The real issue is it takes time for people to see the light.

I second that. WWE I just can't get into the layout/rules
GOTG is the second (especially sound/mode integration) but has a far better playfield. LCD with movie clips from the movie and voice actors is something that doesn't match unless you live in France where they are used to dubbing movies

For the rest, most Stern titles are really a blast to play and have some very nice rules, art, layout, ..

I have one and love mine. I like it because the layout is unique and the game is super difficult. A lot of people don't like the game because they only played it before it's first code update when there was a lot of down time in the ring. Even after the code update, the rules aren't super straight forward though so people walking up to the game don't really know what to do outside of the ring. It's not a perfect game by a long shot, but I really hope it does eventually get that last update it needs to clean up some bugs and fix some rules to take it to the next level. I would love to see more games that are out of the box like WWE. There are already so many standard fan layouts with recycled layouts, shots and rule sets.

GOTG is a good game. Is it a great game? No

I look at the positives for GOTG like, fantastic music, awesome art, great layout, LCD with movie clips, Rocket kickback, and it is fun to play-which is most important.

Now the negatives....It is clearly a rushed cut and paste using Metallica, Star Trek, and Aerosmith assets. Magnet does nothing except during multi-ball, and still is lack luster. Code is buggy and not polished, again feels like cut and paste. I still enjoy mine and think it is fun. I am not sure if I will keep it or not, starting to feel like chopping wood. I own Metallica and it is very close to the same layout. I do think it makes a fantastic game for operators and will be very successful on location. It is far from being a dud, especially if you consider potential earnings for operators.

data says the inverse

I think it needs more time, I would like to know in a year from now where it sits. It is bright, attractive, and I think the theme goes a long way. If it is being compared to Star Wars, it will not fare well.

Mustang Pro owners - turn your "dud" into a gem.

My latest Pro playlist can be downloaded if you want to check it out:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/go6dzpaxdxxsv6w/mustang21.bin?dl=0

Cruisn' > 2:49 Panama, Van Halen

Rally Race > Kickstart My Heart, Motley Crue

-DRAG RACE (Drag Race Multiball) > Shoot to Thrill, ACDC
-DRAG RACE Short intro > > ACDC Shoot to Thrill

Police Pursuit 1 51s> California Love, NWA
Police Pursuit 2 - 1m30s > Outta Get Me, Guns N Roses

Road Race - 54s 542ms - Hash Pipe, Weezer

Stunt Driver 55s > Nth Degree, Morningwood (Was ZZ Top's Tush in my prior version)

Background Modes/Music:
REQ 38: (Gear Shift MB, game over) - 1:19 > Bad to the Bone sax solo
REQ 58 35s 386ms Drag Race Multiball - Bad to the Bone sax solo
Also plays during game over

REQ 52: Drift Mode - 53s > ZZ Top, Sharp Dressed Man

REQ 53: Burnout Multiball - 37s 149ms > Free Bird, Lynyrd Skynryd

REQ 54: Silverball Stampede - 52s > Quiet Riot, Metal Health

Req 61: 58s - Mustang MB lit - Loverboy, Working for the weekend

Req 75: 35s - MUSTANG MB > Led Zeppelin, Immigrant Song
Also plays during entering name for high score

44s 305ms - Upgrade lit, will play when an upgrade is available and you hit the ramp into the bowl - Ratt, Round & Round
Full 44s of the song plays during Upgrade Scoring and Upgrade MB

Music, no vocals, played in between modes and in the ball launcher:
24s 751ms - Great White, Once Bitten Twice shy
44s 289ms - Stevie Ray Vaughn, Crossfire
35s 999ms - Queen, Brighton Rock
24s 000ms - Heart, Barracuda
13s 712ms - Jane's Addiction, Been Caught Stealing

Pinside loves to hate on everything stern does. It's just the in thing at the moment. Stern has not made very many just bad games since 2010 or so. Even the ones that are just OK are still fun to play on location.

As far as the ones that have made the largest jump from release til now. XMEN, MET, BM66 and TWD come to mind the most. XMEN didn't even function and MET and TWD were boring snooze fests with nothing but basic multiballs installed and very little to do, BM66 was a box of lights and nothing more at release. All are pretty good games now.

It’s only a clunkfest if you can’t hit the shots

Almost every game mentioned as a dud was improved with code. Iron Man is one game that was considered a dud at release and is now lauded and code is not responsible for its rise. Yes, there has been a code update, but it was to address lamp effects and the LEDs used in the vault edition. Iron Man was panned due to it being a simple layout and the continuing of of Stern's cost cutting (PF pegs, no lollipop rails, plastic apron). It was also not widely available to play on location as there weren't a lot produced due to the economy. So a lot of people made up their minds based on other's opinions and not actually playing the game or giving it a chance. I played it once at a friend's home in early 2011 and loved it. I picked up a used example from someone that bought in to the "it sucks" mindset in May 2011. Still one of my favorite games.

well we all know I suck at pinball, so that must be it.

I'm guessing you are pretty darn good at pinball. But based on your ratings you like very different stuff then most people. Not a lot of people are going to think Metallica is the worst game they have ever played even if it's not for them. Nothing wrong with hating BM66 if that's the way you feel. The left orbit is pretty clunky and the shots on the turn table are also pretty clunky. I still think it's a fun game though.

Certifiable duds at release - SM, TWD, MET and BM66 - are very good to great now.

Originally good to great - TSPP, IM and Tron

Maybe I’m in the minority but I do enjoy playing some BM66. At the end of the day that’s what it’s all about.

Well your pin ratings aren't exactly "mainstream". Even though its to each his own of course, those rankings look f ing bizarre Hilton

I like the good shit Ice!

You're not (and right, btw). Most of the "majority" like/ love it w new code, and still not done yet. They just stay quiet in these type of threads....

the title matches the Ops request to a tee.....zero to hero on this one....is what it is......

I truly hope to join you guys someday in proclaiming BM66 a great game. Just not there yet.

MK6PIN - I am curious as to how great you currently consider it. You have a quality collection. Where would you rank BM66 among your games?

What have you become?

It's hard to place it, actually, as I enjoy all my pins for different reasons....but it gets played generally every time they're all fired up

In complete truth, I play it alot, probably because the new code drops make it feel like a new game still.....can't really explain it...it's just fun to listen, watch, and play the crazy thing. It's staying...no doubt of that....

Remember the Hitler rant about that? It’s not a mystery shot if it gives 500k every time. Classic. Shots were always fun though on Met.

BM66 is not a clunkfest, as the shots are rather easy to hit. It does however, have a few clunky shots which are not very satisfying.

TWD always had satisfying shots. In fact, almost all of them are very satisfying, so it was never a crappy game. People were just disapointed that there were no actor voices, just a hillbilly.

I must say that getting to Horde the first couple times and having it just flash Horde on the screen for a second and then go back to regular play, or worse, the game would reset, kinda sucked.

BBH was tainted a dud, but for me it is best fun you can have with beers and your mates!

" MOOSE ON THE LOOSE "

I'm really surprise that no one mentioned kiss. It came out as a dud. Got some updates... and it's still a dud.

Sometimes a game doesn‘t need more Code or anything to go from dud to great. I still think SW is Sterns best game. Can‘t stop playing it. And I believe that the people that don‘t like it only need more playing time on it and they will see how great it is. Metallica has a great show even for beginners on it. So more People like it even with just a few games. Other games need more time to understand or get boring after time. The great games are the ones that you keep even after you unterstood them.