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(Topic ID: 42638)

New Rottendog PS for DE....question


By Pinballer22

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Pintucky
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

Bought a PS for a Rocky and Bullwinkle and getting ready to install it today and appears to be 100% plug and play other than CN7 connector. On original it is a 3 pin connector and on Rottendog is a 5 pin connector. I made sure I ordered the correct PS....anyone know how it should hook up?

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#2 7 years ago

It is keyed so you cannot put the connector on wrong.

In later DE games, Stern put an extra 2 pins on this connector to allow for unregulated 12V to be used for toys. I think only one of the 2 extra pins was ever used, and only on a few games (LAH I am thinking).

Jim Knight

#3 7 years ago

Figured it out, thanks! Great product!

#4 7 years ago

I would highly suggest not using Rottendog power supplies. They will eventually do damage to your game. The high voltage circuit design on those will soon fail and cook parts of your game. I would suggest an X-Pin or Pinscore replacement.

#5 7 years ago

Really? Details? I mean the same thing could generically be said for any supply if it failed, but on P/S's the normal failure mode is 'dead' not 'cook the machine'.

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I would highly suggest not using Rottendog power supplies. They will eventually do damage to your game. The high voltage circuit design on those will soon fail and cook parts of your game. I would suggest an X-Pin or Pinscore replacement.

That is a fairly serious charge. You may very well be correct, but do you have some credible evidence for that charge?

Does Jim at Rottendog have a response?

I really would like to know.

RussMyers

#7 7 years ago

Yep...

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rottendog-power-supply

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/pn4yMmd_9Hs

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.games.pinball/2008-03/msg08090.html

I also had a friend with a RD power supply in his Phantom of the Opera, it caused fuses to blow, burning smells, really weird behavior. Bought an X-Pin DE supply from Brett Davis, works perfectly with no issues and the game has running 24/7 for many months. The worst part of it though is evidently Tim refuses to admit and correct the voltage regulator issue, there is just no excuse for using components out of spec like that.

#8 7 years ago

OK, that looks pretty compelling.

I hope it gets addressed.

I have said over and over - I am willing to pay more for quality.

Do it right the first time, I'll happily pay what quality costs and come back again for more in the future.

RM

#9 7 years ago

Hey Crash,
How do I test my RD power board in my DE Batman to make sure it is not pushing out too much negative voltage? I don't want my display in my Batman to start looking like your video. Those displays are super expensive to replace!

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from Willy39:

Hey Crash,
How do I test my RD power board in my DE Batman to make sure it is not pushing out too much negative voltage? I don't want my display in my Batman to start looking like your video. Those displays are super expensive to replace!

You want to test your high voltage output. There may be some test points on the board but look in the schematics of an original power supply to get which pins are supposed to be which values. 5v and 12v should be ok. But again, even if the values look good the regulators on the board will soon fail and dump too much voltage into the rest of the game.

#11 7 years ago

Thanks Crash. Has Jim from RD ever publicly reply to the claims about his boards? He seems like a pretty stand up guy and always was informative and helpful with me on some of my boards I purchased from him. He might be reading this thread already but I might email him this thread link to see what his thoughts are on it.

And I will check the voltage on my board and see.

#12 7 years ago

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You will end up only wasting your time and annoying the pig.... But here I go anyway trying to teach a pig to sing....

DE power supplies go bad. Rottendog power supplies go bad. I can use "Crashes" methods and say I know a guy who had a Dell computer and it didn't work so all Dell computers will go bad.

Crash is obviously a "technical" guy with comments like "Tim refuses to admit and correct the voltage regulator issue, there is just no excuse for using components out of spec like that."

Hey Mr. "Crash" which spec am I not meeting?

Watch. The lack of response on which spec I am not meeting will be defining!

Here is a link to the regulator I am using. http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/LM337-D.PDF

Please do not be so simple as to assume that "differential" voltage of 37V and output voltage of 37V is the same. Call me if you need to know the difference.

Jim Knight
256 677 5300

#13 7 years ago

Wow. Two phone calls from happy customers. I was asked to post my schematics for this board to "help" "Crash" post how I am using components "out of spec".

Here is the link to the schematic:

http://www.rottendog.us/DPS004.pdf

Crash, I am waiting for your call. Since the phone still ain't ringing I assume it still aint you?

Jim Knight
256 677 5300

#14 7 years ago

I'm just going by the facts Jim, people have suggested the design hasn't been updated. But if you're willing to update the design I'll support you... I know you mean well, the design just doesn't make sense.

#15 7 years ago

Facts? What facts?

What part of the design doesn't make sense?

Please be specific.

The design hasn't been updated? It is a complete redesign of the original DE design.

Either you are just repeating what other ignorant people say, or you are ignorant.

You specifically say: "Tim refuses to admit and correct the voltage regulator issue, there is just no excuse for using components out of spec like that."

Your statement. Where in my design am I "using components out of spec like that"?

Your statement. Please specifically tell me where I am "using components out of spec" , or say your wrong (which you are).

Anything I say, I am willing to back up with specifics. Are you?

Jim Knight
256 677 5300

#16 7 years ago

#17 7 years ago

I don't know about this specific PS board, but I have used other products from rottendog and have been extremely happy with the support/service/parts.

#18 7 years ago

I had challenges with a new RD power supply in a DE as well. I just gave up and sold the pin with the old power supply. New owner was going to get it rebuilt. Sorry, but the point of buying a new replacement is plug and play and the it should work flawlessly and needs to last at least as long as the original. Won't speak for anyone else as I've only bought one board, but that was not the experience I had.

#19 7 years ago

Trouble with power supplies in DE games is not specific to Rottendog. There is a very strange situation that happens with Cherry brand DMDs. When the original DE power supply fails, it damages the Cherry brand DMD in such a way that a replacement repro power supply's high voltage will cascade and take out the regulator.

This only happens with Cherry brand displays, and only if the original power supply's high voltage has failed (which is a good reason to have a repro PS).

Check your DMD's brand if you've had this issue, I bet dollars to donuts it's a Cherry.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#20 7 years ago

I posted the evidence, what more do you want? The high voltage regulators are being driven out of spec for their design. They are putting out too much voltage as a result. Look, I wish you the best of luck, but I not only did I give several examples of people with problems but I personally know someone who had similar issues. It's like you are denying there is even a problem. It's good that you have replaced failed board for people in the past but to me it seems like you're treating these cases as flukes. You have customers without issues? Great! I didn't say every person would run into problems. But it's still an issue and I'm just giving advice.

#21 7 years ago

I give up.

#22 7 years ago

I wasn't going to chime in on this, but based on how it is going I guess I'd better since one of my previous posts is being used as "evidence". I'm not comfortable with that for the following reasons:

1) My problem occurred over two years ago. This morning I looked at photos of my old board and its schematics. It isn't the same as what is sold now. Any comments I made at that time may not apply to what is being sold now.

2) The DMD in my game at that time was a Cherry. Borygard has brought up issues that that brand of display can cause when the Data East PS goes out. So that right there could have been my problem.

3) Again, my comments two years ago were based on discussions with others about a board version that is no longer even for sale. I'm not sure they are relevant anymore. Although I am an engineer, I am not an electrical engineer. I'm not going to second guess Jim, I don't have the technical background to do so. It is his product, he stands behind it and supports it. He makes things right if there are problems. I'll leave the discussion about the technical specifications to others that are qualified to weigh in on such things.

4) Two years ago I called Jim, discussed my problems, sent my board back, he repaired it and returned it. It happened very quickly if I remember correctly. Good customer service.

5) I have bought and used a lot of Rottendog products in the last few years. I have installed his displays, MPUs, driver boards, clock boards, etc. in a lot of games for clients with no problems. I have one of Jim's MPUs in one of my games that is on location being played day after day with no problems.

I called and spoke to Jim this morning and expressed most of this to him already. I hope that clears things up as far as my previous comments and concerns.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from stangbat:

It is his product, he stands behind it and is willing to support it. He makes things right if there are problems.

I second that. He will make it right! He did for me. I also have spoke with Jim, great guy! Sent my board to him, he fixed it and returned it very quickly (a week turn around).

#24 7 years ago

OK ... I MUST put in a few words on this one.
The regulators ... both positive and negative ARE driven WAY out of spec.

This comment "Please do not be so simple as to assume that "differential" voltage of 37V and output voltage of 37V is the same." is what is assumed to be correct.
In a perfect world - this comment is correct for how the parts are used.

In the real world, you cannot guarantee that the voltage differential will always be in the safe range when the input voltage is many times the absolute maximum differential. There are two times that you will ALWAYS exceed this differential voltage:

1 -- at power up. The input power will rise faster than the output voltage.

2 -- a dead short across the outputs. You have an input to output differential that tremendously exceeds the absolute maximum specs of the part. This is the main killer for these regulators -- excessive output current or shorted outputs.

Post edited by G-P-E : Made post a bit more polite...

#25 7 years ago

As per GPE, this is what I'm trying to help people avoid. For some reason Jim seems to be taking it personally. Just trying to help, man...

#26 7 years ago

I cannot BEGIN to talk this highly technical talk, but I have some comments to make! I think Jim is a fantastic person. I want DESPERATELY to be able to buy Rottendog boards and feel good about them. I think what he does is a great service.

BUT . . . I have had two cases of 'bad luck' with Rottondog PS boards. I bought a PS for my Phantom pin and within a week or so, my pin slowly started failing to function correctly. It 'appears' that many things are now burnt or ruined because of voltage issues. I am having ALL the boards in my pin being rebuilt as I speak. I cannot verify or prove without a doubt that the Rottondog board caused my problems. I just know that I have taken out the board and an expert board repairman is currently restoring my original PS and CPU boards.

My second case was with my TZ. My original PS had battery acid damage. I put in a new Rottondog PS. My TZ went crazy. DMD showing strange graphics and occassional messages that many components were broken. "Clock malfunction". Things like that. I took out my PS from my White Water and put it in the TZ and it worked perfectly. Put the Rottondog back in and the machine failed in every regard during boot-up. Took the Rottondog back out again and installed my freshly restored, previously acid damaged PS, and my TZ worked perfectly again.

Crash and GPE are saying 'something' that seems to be akin to the two problems I've had. I want nothing but the best success for Jim, and I would LOVE to be able to purchase Rottondog boards and know without a doubt I can 'plug and play' without having issues. Maybe I just had bad luck.

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